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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: odysseyov on Wednesday 08 May 19 05:28 BST (UK)
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Can anyone please help with information regarding the 'Arundel' ship which left from Plymouth and reached Melbourne about Nov 24, 1852 according to local newspapers? I have done numerous searches for this vessel but am continually referred to the 'Arundel Castle', which was in service much later. I have no details of where the ship was registered but have tried to find some records in both Plymouth and Liverpool but nothing shows up. The Ships List and various other lists/websites simply don't have an 'Arundel. Any ideas, anyone? ;)
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From LLoyds register of Shipping.
Malky
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Hi Flatty, thanks for your help. Goes to show it doesn't pay to believe anything you read in newspapers - they quoted 868 tons in 1852 - unless the ship had a remake (?); and the master is given as John Mills. As I'm completely ignorant when it comes to ships, how do i translate L Hmp (somewhere in Hampshire?) and Brxb'm? I'd really like to have more details about this particular ship; is there a site i can consult to have the description explained? Any advice welcome. :)
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Some British newspaper sightings: (John Mills was the Commander of the vessel on its voyage to Melbourne arriving Nov 1852)
The Cork Examiner, 31 March 1852
Ships News Queenstown
ARRIVED …. Arundel, Mills
The Belfast News 30 July 1952
Ship News Belfast
Arrived at Plymouth on the 24th instant, the Arundel, Mills, from London, and sailed, on the 25th inst, for Port Phillip
The Morning Post, London August 14, 1853
Shipping intelligence, Bombay
Departures 23 June The ship Arundel, Mills, for Liverpool
JM
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Your profile shows you are based in Queensland. If you apply for a Library card via the National Library of Australia, you can obtain access to their e resources, which includes the digitised newspapers including British ones back to the 17th century.
https://www.nla.gov.au/getalibrarycard/
https://www.nla.gov.au/blogs/behind-the-scenes/2015/11/04/eresources-getting-started
https://www.nla.gov.au/app/eresources/
JM
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The passenger list for Arundel Nov 1852 is available at Ancestry and, glancing at your surnames of interest,I note on board 2 people MINTON and 2 people WOODS.
Sue
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"L Hmp (somewhere in Hampshire?) and Brxb'm?"
L Hmp (Littlehampton) and Brxb'm (Brixham)
A snipit of info' here
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nrk/
"Seaweed" may come along with more information, as he is the maritime expert.
Malky
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Wow! What a wonderful bunch you are!. First of all, thanks, Sue, I do have the passenger list and have traced my ancestors from Clerkenwell to Aus and to the present day - at least, the ones that were on that ship. It was details of the ship I sought - construction, length of time it would take for the journey, conditions on board, did they call at any ports, what provisions did they have on board etc. JM of MAJM has provided some of the answers through the Belfast News, i.e. that Arundel departed 25th June for Port Phillip (Melbourne), so I know the voyage took from June 25 to Nov 24 - my thanks for that, JM. I do have online membership of NLA and have spent time searching the Aus papers but had no idea it was possible to access British papers through "Trove". Thanks for that, too - I'll know better. next time. Malky (may I call you that?) it was great to have the terms explained, much appreciated; now it would be nice if 'seaweed' joined in. It's possible to find out all this information about Brunel's 'Great Britain' but only the barest essentials about 'Arundel'. Maybe there's a 'sister' ship somewhere that's more famous and could provide a model???
NW
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British newspapers are not via Trove, they are available via your library card and the e-resources on the live links as per
Your profile shows you are based in Queensland. If you apply for a Library card via the National Library of Australia, you can obtain access to their e resources, which includes the digitised newspapers including British ones back to the 17th century.
https://www.nla.gov.au/getalibrarycard/
https://www.nla.gov.au/blogs/behind-the-scenes/2015/11/04/eresources-getting-started
https://www.nla.gov.au/app/eresources/
JM
JM
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From LLoyds register of Shipping.
Malky
Wrong ARUNDEL Malky.
I think this is the one in question.
ARUNDEL Built in Quebec in 1850, 868 tons,
Owned by Stuckey, Captained By Mills in 1852/53 and later. Port of Registry Bridgwater. Certified A1 by Lloyd's in 1851
This seems to be the same vessel as the one mention in the newspaper reports as given by majm.
Her official number, (of no consequence in this instance) was 5536.
Her 1853 logbooks which will prove exactly where she sailed should be in TNA Kew
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4067637
ARUNDEL, Mills, was still inMelbourne 14th March 1853 according to the Liverpool Mercury. 15/3/1853
As ARUNDEL would have returned to a UK port in 1853. then the voyage we are interested in would be recorded in her first 1853 logbook.
If the document has survived, it should give basic details of the voyage and record any births and deaths and major illness. You will have to ask TNA for a quote. Be sure to ask for the voyage commencing on the 25th June 1852 and ending Nov/24/1852.
Seems she docked in Bombay on the return voyage, and sailed from there on the 23/06/1853 arrived Liverpool 25/Oct/1853.
If the quote is totally unreasonable. Let me know and I will endeavour to take a look for you next time I visit TNA.
You could also view details of the route of the voyage, by consulting Lloyd's List. Available on microfilm from The National Library of Australia.
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Great info, Seaweed; I've requested a quote as you suggested and will let you know what happens. Thanks, JM, for explaining the process at NLA. A library card has been ordered but it will take ten or so days to arrive. I don't imagine I'd be able to access microfiche records online and as I seldom (never) visit Canberra (that's where the politicians hang out; Erk!) it looks as if TNA may be the only resource. I do thank you both, and everyone else who's answered and will post the results (in case anyone else is looking for the same ship/voyage). Rootschat truly is the greatest resource. NW
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:D Confirming info here to match up with Seaweed's finds .... two newspaper cuttings ... one an advert confirming departure for Bombay and the other the shipping details with the more accurate ... 868 tons :D Notice the vessel is referred to as a 'ship' and that it left without any passengers ... 1853 ... so huge rush of shipping bringing passengers to NSW and Vic, due to gold rushes ... very few passengers left the colonies ... many return voyages departed empty or without export cargo, and often were without experienced crew too !
The Argus, 8 Jan 1853 (Melbourne, Victoria newspaper)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4788791
(Advertisement)
FOR BOMBAY DIRECT To sail about the 14th January 1853
The first class fast sailing ship, ARUNDEL, 900 tons register, John Mills, commander. She has very superior accommodation for passengers, both cabin and intermediate. For freight or passage apply to John Orr & Co.
The Argus 19 Jan 1853
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/4789054
Shipping Intelligence
Cleared Out
January 18, Arundel, ship, 868 tons, J. Mills, for Bombay, in ballast, No passengers.
JM
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Another Arundel?
Supplementary List of the emigrant ships sailing from Whitby. Taken from Dr. English's "Whity Prints."(Whitby)? Diary of Events.
1831
The brig ADDISON, ships GUINARE and KING WILLIAM sailed from Whitby with emigrants for Quebec.
It will be seen from the principal list, that the Addison and Guinare sailed for Quebec in 1830. It may be a second voyage, or a mistake in the year, as the record in the Whitby Repository would certainly be correct.
1832
The COLUMBUS sailed from Whiby (Whitby) for Quebec, with 245 emigrants
Further particulars are given in the principal list.
1834
May 8th. The ship HINDOO sailed from Whitby with 106 emigrants. On May 9th the barque CAPT. ROSS with 28, and on May 10th the barque ARUNDEL with 173, all for Quebec. (Marmaduke Jame's Diary)
The Hindoo is mentioned in the principal list with trifling differences. The Capt. Ross and Arundel are not mentioned. Weatherill's particulars, p.157: Capt. Ross, barque 310 tons, built in 1834 by R.& N. Campion, Whitby. I cannot find any particulars of the Arundel.
I learn something new every day. Never knew that Whitby was a port for emigrants.
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Is it the barque Arundel you are looking for?
Wednesday 15 May 1889
By cablegram. The ship Rangitiki and the barque Loweswater arrived at London on the 13th inst (Monday last). The Rangitiki (Feb. 1st) was 104 days out and the Loweswater 100. (Feb. 3rd)
Shipping Arrived London16
Barque Triton from Wellington, Feb. 19th
barque Lurline, from Lyttelton, Feb. 17th
barque Oscar from Auckland, Feb. 13th
barque Arundel from Bluff Harbour, Jan. 27th
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https://collections.rmg.co.uk/archive/objects/510458.html
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https://newspaperarchive.com/london-shipping-gazette-and-commercial-advertiser-oct-19-1837-p-2/
Oct. 18—The barque Arundel, from Odessa, is on the bank by the entrance at Sharpness Point. We cannot say whether she was hurt or not.
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A little more,
The ship ARUNDEL which we have already talked about and which I have no doubts is the vessel in question. was built in Quebec in 1850 by Thomas H Oliver. She was 140.0 feet in length, 30.7 breadth. 21.8 Depth. Oliver was the largest shipbuilder in Quebec City in the 1850's. My guess is there must be some records of the company somewhere which may include technical drawings of ARUNDEL. A long shot but an email to The Naval Museum of Quebec may be worth a go.
info@navalmuseumofquebec.com.
As you will note ARUNDEL was owned by Stuckey. From what I can find out. He was a Banker with interests in Shipping and a big noise in Bridgwater. Again I suspect there will be company records to follow up.
Try a mail to secretary@bridgwatermuseum.org.uk
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Hi, everyone,
Sorry to be so long in offering thanks again to Seaweed, MAJM, barryd and Hallmark. Seaweed's information ties up with the passengers I'm interested in and is confirmed by JM's newspaper items via "Trove." This cuts the earlier "Arundel" out, since Seaweed's "Arundel" (matching tonnage 868) wasn't built 'till 1850. I will certainly email the museums you suggest, Seaweed and post the answers if they add to the story. Hoping to spend time during July/August to pursue all the leads. Cheers. NW
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Hi to Seaweed, MAJM, Malky et al,
The answer came back from TNA - £50.70 which sounds quite a lot but may have been worthwhile if there were any more information in the Log than list of crew and crew agreements, which wasn't what I was seeking. The answer from Quebec bounced back immediately - ie address not found; but I've re-sent using info on their website. The Bridgewater Museum didn't bounce so that is still in play; and I've just received an acknowledgement from Quebec although the person concerned is on holiday until June 2. Still, hope springs eternal, doesn't it? More to come ;)
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Hi to all who participated
No further information was available about Sailing ship "Arundel", but again I thank everyone for all the helpful suggestions.
Can anyone please remind me now how to close this thread? ???
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:) Please, don't close it, just leave it open for anyone to add to it. It is of course on my rainy day 'elusive threads' list. ::)
JM
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Happy to leave it open, JM.
Hope you are well and sending good wishes to all RootsChatters ... :D
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:)
Found this thread, after posting on another :-[
PROV is Public Records Office, Victoria (Australia)...
The other thread is currently on the Australia board, :)
I cannot locate the thread at present re the ship 'Arundel' arriving 26 November 1852 but I have just sighted a passenger list, and it seems the original source would be PROV :)
Thomas MINTON, aged 19, a Printer, of England contracted to land Port Phillip.
Elsewhere on same list:
Benjamin MINTON, aged 21, also a Printer, of England, also contracted to land Port Phillip.
Sorry for the diversion.
JM
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Perhaps of interest :) the first section of the first page of the many pages of lists of passengers on that voyage. I hope others can decipher and confirm that the handwriting is :
Arundel
John Mills
868
4034
268
Port Phillip
280
John Mills
15 July 1852
I expect we can all read the pre printed section :D but the vital info is likely in the handwriting... :)
JM