RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: overlandermatt on Thursday 09 May 19 00:15 BST (UK)
-
Trying to identify a former resident of our house in the 1840 tithe map book. Charles Thorell/Thowell?
Thanks in advance for any good ideas!
Matt
-
m
-
Have you looked in the 1841 census? Whereabouts is the house? Might be able to find a similar name in the area even if not in the precise house.
Name could also be Thouell or Thonell perhaps?
-
Free BMD
Thorell - fairly rare. County Durham including British West Hartlepool has the most
Thowell - extremely rare
-
Whereabouts is the house Matt? On the 1841 census there are a few Charles Tho*ells - none look to be a perfect match, but it might help if we know the location.
The surname looks like Thovell to me, though that is not a proper surname I don't think. There is a bit of a hiccup in the writing of what I think looks like the 'v' so it is not likely to be a v ...
-
The house is in Shardlow, Derbyshire. I don't currently have a subscription to check the census records.
Thank you for your help with this.
Matt
-
previous thread relating to this property (I presume :))
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=806900.0
-
previous thread relating to this property (I presume :))
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=806900.0
I remember it well .... :)
A search for the address in 1841 might help .... if Charles was living there then. I can't see a Charles Tho*ell in Derbyshire in the 1841 census. Might Charles be the owner but not live in the house?
-
Yes! Finally got the keys after a protracted conveyancing process...
-
1841 I am not sure which side of the Dog & Duck your house is but in
Aston Lane immediately before the Dog & Duck
are William Sutcliffe (something cliffe anyway) 35 a joiner
Sarah ditto 30
Sarah ditto 5
Jane ditto 1
all born in county
Then the Dog & Duck (inn keeper is Elizabeth Shardlow)
House after the Dog & Duck
address is Derby Road
John & Sarah Potter both 60, John a Farming Bailiff. Both born out of county
Phenicia Chapman 5 born in county
-
1851 census has a Charles Thorold living at The Villa, London Road, Shardlow. He's head of the household but only aged 25 with a 19 year old wife, he's an Annuitant as are his 4 sisters also in the household. Charles and his sisters were born in Harmston Lincolnshire. There are also a groom and two domestic servants living in The Villa.
Heather
P.s. If you search for Harmston Hall there are details of the history of that house and the Thorold family :)
-
The house sits on London Road now which has previously been called Derby Road. Opposite the house to the left is a junction with Aston Lane. The Dog and Duck is directly opposite. On our side of the road there were 2 or 3 small cottages to the left which have now been knocked down. The other side there was a farmhouse and barn. Our house is fairly large and is likely to have had staff. Although called the Dower House, there is no indication that it wax ever used by a dowerger from the nearby Shardlow Hall.
The lady that runs the local heritage centre might well recognise the family name of any likely suspects!
Thanks for the ideas.
Matt
-
Do you know where the Villa is in relation to yours? (as I can see that in 1841)
-
Hello.
Could Charles THORRELL be a starter.
Very uncommon if it is, and the second stroke of the pen looks more like an 'i' or 'e' than the letter r, to me.
Compare with the 'r' in Charles also.
Alan.
-
Hello.
Could Charles THORRELL be a starter.
...
Compare with the 'r' in Charles also.
Alan.
Hello
I would be inclined to agree with Thorrell and the reasoning of the letter r in Charles.
We always look for the recognisable words first in old Manor documents written in various old hand styles, to see how the writer forms the 26 letters of the alphabet, as capitals, small / lower case letters within words and also at the end of words.
Added
At the start of individual letters the pen can start light or with a dot and end prematurely (a better scan or photo is needed to check for this) a repeated letter can sometimes be lazy.
Very slight possibility of Thoriell, but rarer.
No i dotting, but again we would need to see if other letter i had missed dots, written at the same time.
Mark
-
Thanks for your help with this. I am inclined to think Charles Thorold is a likely candidate. I have not previously heard the house called The Villa but this was also mentioned by my contact at the local heritage centre who also mentioned this name came up on the 1852 Poor Rate Survey. To cast some doubt on this, if he is 25 at the time of the census in 1851 then he is very young to be at the house in 1840 unless of course his father was also Charles Thorold...
The other thread about this house suggested that it was used as the rectory at some stage in the late 19th century. My contact at the heritage centre suggested this was unlikely and that it was Shardlow Manor, a larger house closer to the church that had fulfilled this role.
Thanks once again.
Matt
-
I’m at work so can’t recheck, but in 1841 The Villa was occupied by Mary surname the same as the people at the Hall. (Stanton? ) She had servsnts with some same surnames as servants at the hall too.
The Villa is before the Inn on the bend past the intersection with Aston lane. This Inn is Before the Shakespeare. I think all on opposite side of Derby road from dog and duck, blacksmith and church.
Hope that makes sense and someone else might look 😀
-
Shardlow Hall was purchased by James Sutton in 1826 from the Fosbrooke family and the house was part of that estate...
-
Makes you think your house might be The Villa?
-
It is looking like it... Is there any mention of The Villa in a later census I wonder?
-
1851 Reply #10
its Difficult to be sure looking without local knowledge as I am but in
1861 & 1871 I really do think it’s the rector John Eaton as per the 1881 etc in the previous thread.
I think you will have to pay up and get the censuses for yourself and walk up and down your road to figure it out. Using the blacksmith and the inns and that handy map from the last thread as locators.
-
I think your idea of a physical check from the street is a good one. I did mention the possibility of the house's use as a rectory to the contact at the heritage centre but she thought that the Shardlow Manor down the road had been the old rectory. I will have to check it out.
Thank you for your help! We made some good progress.
-
Trying to identify a former resident of our house in the 1840 tithe map book. Charles Thorell/Thowell?
Thanks in advance for any good ideas!
Matt
Hello
You mention Tithe Map Book (in the singular), so I'm not exactly sure what you have, because it seems you don't have the Map?
Is it something that came with your Pack of House Deeds?
Tithable Fields were Surveyed with numbered Maps drawn showing fields, usually houses, farms, pubs etc., along with a corresponding numbered accompanying Apportionment Schedule Books (with Proprietors and the main Occupiers named, their Rent Charges) and were produced shortly after the Tithe Commutation Act 1836, when the old Tithes were commuted to Rent Charges.
If the property with Owner/Occupier is in the Tithe Book (Apportionment) the exact location is usually on a detailed Tithe Map, these will often be properties built on the older or even ancient field inclosures and enclosed historically by the former Lord/s of the Manor (Landowner/s).
Amended
Field inclosures depicted on a Tithe Map are older and pre-date 18th & 19th Century Parliamentary Enclosure Acts. Enclosure by Parliamentary Act were usually exonerated from Tithe. (Usually the rules applied in drawing up Tithe Maps are stated in the Apportionment or any associated paperwork).
The number in the Tithe Apportionment Schedule 'Map No' column (or whatever name the Surveyor called that column) should correspond to a number on the Tithe Map.
Tithe Apportionment (Parish) at TNA, Kew, in the IR 29 Series
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9367
Tithe Maps at TNA, Kew, in the IR 30
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=IR%2030&_dss=range&_sd=1830&_ed=1850&_ro=any&_hb=tna&_st=adv
If visiting see their "Visit Us" page first, because you will need a "Readers Ticket" to see original documents, which involves proving who you are and where you live, when applying for, or renewing a "Readers Ticket".
Two were often made (by Parish, with Tithable fields) and before going to Kew, you should check with your County Records Office, or Diocesan Record Office (if nearer) as to whether they hold the Original or a Copy of both the Tithe Apportionment with a Map.
The Tithe Maps surveyed for the Tithe Commutation Act 1836, were often detailed and fields, usually gardens, building locations can be compared with the later 1880s England Ordnance Survey 6" scale (or larger) and later OS large scale edtions.
Mark
-
Here's the same name in the 1849 tithe record as occupier of the 'Old Homestead' (landowner was James Sutton Esq).
-
Thank you for the very detailed description of the Tithe Apportionment system Mark. To answer your questions, I found the information at the local records office in Matlock, Derbyshire. There I found the map and the corresponding book entry which threw up the name Thorold/Thorrell. I am still waiting to get the deeds from the previous owner - I do hope he will pass them on to us.
How often were such 'surveys' carried out? I was surprised to learn about the Poor Rate Survey of 1852 which seems to operate in a similar manner with a map and corresponding book. Fortunately the local heritage centre had copies of this as the local records office no longer allows the original to be viewed and indeed I had never even heard of this previously. Are there any other surveys to be investigated? I am familiar with the tithe survey of the 1840s, the poor rate survey on 1852 and a land valuation survey in 1910.
I really should renew one of my subscriptions to investigate the census information and to find out why Charles Thorold would be living in the house with his sisters from a very young age. The link with Harmston Hall is an interesting one.
Thanks once again.
Matt
-
This in no way helps your original question, but does form part of the history of the house:
An article in 1959 describes a very bad fire at the house, naming the occupier as Mrs. Marion Booth. (Fireman from both Derby borough and Long Eaton attended... do they keep old records, I wonder?)
There is another article mentioning a fellow in an accident, giving his address as c/o Mrs. Marion Booth, 81 London Rd Shardlow, so perhaps for a while it was used as a lodging house?
-
Well that sounds rather intriguing... What is the source of your information? I was unaware of any fire at the house and having stripped an awful lot of walls and wallpaper, I have got to see quite a lot of the building's fabric. One rear facing wall is a little bit black but the roof below looks to be an old one... All very interesting!
-
Well that sounds rather intriguing... What is the source of your information?
13 March 1959 - Long Eaton Advertiser Page 6 (column 4, lower third)
Title of article: £800 damage to Georgian House
The article talks about a fire that broke out in the roof of Dower House, London Rd, Shardlow on the previous Thursday.
An appliance (firetruck??) was sent from Long Eaton, and two from the Derby Borough, but due to the house structure and "situation of the fire" it was a difficult fire to put out, and before it was extinguished, 75% of the roof was gone, and an attic ceiling collapsed.
The firemen used two hose-reel, and two "fog" jets.
Person in occupation of the house was Mrs. Marion Booth.
-
Oh wow. That sounds fairly serious. The house has three levels with the top floor in the attic. The large roof timbers have all been painted up there and it has been noted that some of these are not that old by a few professionals. The roof was previously re-slated and has new rafters so perhaps I have the reason why and the date. I never expected that when I was trying to decipher a name from an old record from the 1840s.
Thank you!
-
Hello Matt
According to some pdf information online for the 'Manor of Shardlow' the authors suggest the Manor House was on your area numbered 104 (No. 104 1910 Valuation Survey & Map Red numbering).
Your 1910 Valuation Survey extracts here ...
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=806900.msg6696139#msg6696139
Manor of Shardlow
http://www.derbyshireas.org.uk/DM19-06.pdf
Pdf page 3 has another Map of 1882 and they indicate in their Pdf that the Manor House and Grounds were Numbers 106 & 105 [on their Map]
Back to the 1910 Valuation Survey
According to the documents you have seen, they give the owner as Edward Sutton of No.188 (Red number) in the 1910 Valuation Survey.
Also noticed (from scrolling your posts) you mention the Fossbrooke family.
This is a very interesting Will (Proved 1831) of James Sutton of Shardlow, Derbyshire, confirming his Dwelling House with Coach House was called Broughton House and the second of the five pages (PCC Copy) goes on to mention other property in the vicinity, adjacent Field names, Cottages Dwellinghouses or Tenements near Cavendish Bridge and some other property at Aston upon Trent, Shares, etc.
Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills
PROB 11/1783/237
Will of James Sutton of Shardlow, Derbyshire
2nd March 1831
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D252845
You will see a reference to part being lately purchased from Leonard Fossbrooke Esq (double ff being capital F)
I am particularly interested in Thos Turner and William Hood, being near Warehouses and the River Trent.
-----------
Shardlow was incorrectly spelt on Ancestry, but Canterbury Wills (PCC) are in their 'Card Catalogue' and can be found by Testators names and the year Proved date.
----------
In older Manor, Landowner documents and Wills, property such as Houses and Farms etc., are not always named, but your Tithe Apportionment hopefully gives field names and some fields were named in the Will?
Bear in mind sub-letting also went on and some Tenants renting one house may not be named, or might not even be resident when the Will was written.
----------
Looks like one of the Suttons was a Banker, so the Sutton family may have properties elsewhere and when this occurs surviving records relating to Family Estates (Surveys, Rentals & Accounts, which often name Tenantry), Marriage Settlements and any surviving Deeds and Sale Particulars, might be in other Record Offices outside of Derbyshire too?
Mark
-
Here's the same name in the 1849 tithe record as occupier of the 'Old Homestead' (landowner was James Sutton Esq).
Quoting myself here as reply #23 might have been overlooked :)
Carol
-
Posted extract (above) of part of the Will of James Sutton of Shardlow, Derbyshire, 1831
…
my Capital messuage or mansion house situate and being at Shardlow
aforesaid wherein I now reside and commonly called Broughton house
together with the Coach house three Stall stable gardens and orchard there
unto belonging and by me occupied and enjoyed therewith and also all
that my Close piece or parcel of land or ground situate lying and being at
or near Shardlow aforesaid and commonly called or known by the name
of Smith meadow and containing by estimation ten acres or thereabouts
together with the five several Cottages or dwellinghouses or tenements there
unto adjoining with the Gardens and appurts thereunto respectively belong
ing as now in the several occupations of Joseph Dickinson Robert Rat
cliffe William Smedley William Birkin and Robert Woodhouse and all
those three cottages dwellinghouses or tenements situate and being in a
piece of land near Cavendish Bridge called Ducds [Ducks?] piece with the appurts
thereunto belonging as now in the several occupations of [struck through]
Thomas Turner William Hood and Thomas Winfield Boat Captain
and also all those two other closes pieces or parcels of land or ground situate
lying and being at or near Shardlow aforesaid and containing by estima
tion eight acres or thereabouts and also the Cottage dwellinghouse or tene
ment with the barn stable and Garden thereunto belonging and which
I lately purchased from Leonard ffosbrooke Esq’r as now in the several occupa
tions of John Deakin widow Radcliffe to hold the same to and for the
use of her my said wife and her assigns until any tenancy which may
be existing at my decease in my mansion house and heredits herein
after mentioned and devised situate at Aston upon Trent shall have
…
Regarding my reference to Thomas Turner and William Hood those two characters might turn out to be of personal interest in my own research, as the River Trent links up to the River Humber in Yorkshire.
Mark
-
Matt, in your other thread, reply #23, you said:
All I can say for sure is that John Hogg lived at the house at this time - presumably the house was rented from Edward Sutton.
If you have proof that John Hogg lived there, then it was definitely called The Villa in that time period. There are multiple newspaper articles to back that up, which I will reference if you are positive he lived there.
However, before his time there, I think the house had a different name, which I am still working on!
-
Matt, in your other thread, reply #23, you said:
All I can say for sure is that John Hogg lived at the house at this time - presumably the house was rented from Edward Sutton.
If you have proof that John Hogg lived there, then it was definitely called The Villa in that time period. There are multiple newspaper articles to back that up, which I will reference if you are positive he lived there.
However, before his time there, I think the house had a different name, which I am still working on!
Hello
According to the 1910 Valuation Survey and Map shown us by Matt, John A Hogg was indeed shown as occupying the plot numbered 188 (in Red) on the 1910 Valuation Map and 1910 Apportionment, per Matt's photos.
The 1911 Census for Gt Wilne and Shardlow appears to confirm his name as John Augustin Hogg, 41 years, a General Medical Practitioner, born circa 1870 at Warwickshire, Edgbaston
In the 1901, John A Hogg, aged 33 is again on the London Road, Shardlow and has been entered in the Census after the Dog & Duck Inn.
Hogg is presumably the same man who appears in some Inquest Reports, which would figure, being a G.P.
----------
In 1910 the Sutton family do seem to own some properties and land in the area, including the property numbered 188 (Red numbering) on the 1910 Valuation Survey & Map, which is opposite the Dog & Duck
Mark
-
Thanks for that, Mark!
There are multiple articles on John Augustus Hogg, physician, of The Villa, Shardlow.
After rabbit hunting one day in 1914, he went home (to The Villa), and cleaned his guns. Unfortunately, he didn't check to make sure they weren't loaded.... :(
I had tracked the census taker around from the 1901/1911 censuses, and was confident the house was the Villa, as others have noted, but I just needed that last bit to confirm.
-
Thanks for that, Mark!
There are multiple articles on John Augustus Hogg, physician, of The Villa, Shardlow.
After rabbit hunting one day in 1914, he went home (to The Villa), and cleaned his guns. Unfortunately, he didn't check to make sure they weren't loaded.... :(
I had tracked the census taker around from the 1901/1911 censuses, and was confident the house was the Villa, as others have noted, but I just needed that last bit to confirm.
bbart
Being shown as renting a property or main Occupier and actually occupying it / living there, in my experience is definitely not always the same. It is not unusual to find people living in one house, but also renting another nearby and sub-letting the one they are renting to family or someone else.
Unfortunately no house name in either Census.
Added: The Doctor could be renting 188 simply for the field for his horse/s to graze in and then letting the house to someone else. No Mercs or Jags back then for the Doc ;D
Let's not jump the gun yet ;D
Mark
-
In the Stamford Mercury of 1899 there is a Mrs Hogg, Shardlow, Derby, advertising for a Housekeeper for a Country Rectory.
-
That's very interesting reading. It suggests the house has been called The Villa from the time of the 1851 census and Charles Thorold to 1914 and John Hogg.
I have no idea where you get some of your sources -amazing! It sounds very interesting about the shotgun... what happened? John Hogg was indeed a medical practitioner and the previous house owners had suggested a previous use for the house as a surgery. They also mentioned an incident of a housekeeper hanging herself in the house during his time there.
James Sutton's will (1831) unfortunately does not seem to specify a recognisable name or description for the house which is unfortunate. We do know from other sources that the land is referred to as The Old Homestead and indeed the first map of Shardlow prepared for Leonard Fosbrooke in the 1760s seems to show that name...
On the subject of wills, is there anything mentioned in James Sutton Jr's will? He left his estate to Edward Sutton and it is his name as the owner in the 1910 Land Valuation Survey. My contact at the heritage centre suggested the estate was not sold off until the 1960s.
I don't know who was there at the house after John Hogg. Sylvester Calvert, a Jeweller, is there at the time of the 1939 Register. I have a copy of his photo from the heritage centre in the village too.
-
There is a very long article on the actual event, and subsequent funeral for Dr. Hogg. I can summarize it later (in bit of a rush right now!) It also states that he used the house for a surgery.
Mark is right that in the 1901/1911 census the house is listed as "London Rd", not "The Villa", but there is just so many articles that link John and his wife, Amy Kathleen, to that name. Doesn't mean he owned it! Anyways, all we can do is find what information is out there, and then draw conclusions.
Here is one example:
-
I still haven't gotten to typing up a post on the articles/directories/other stuff I found, but before I lost the following link, I thought I better get this posted. It is a 46 page pdf file talking about the historical homes/buildings of Shardlow, and Dower House comes up many times in comparing styles of it to Broughton House, Shardlow House, etc etc. Not just the styles are compared, but the bricks, chimneys, etc. Lots of pictures, so it's not 46 pages of reading! It also helps in defining where these homes were.
Click here for the insanely long link ! (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=2ahUKEwjDtpeayZziAhXGg1QKHUawAosQFjAHegQIBRAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.southderbyshire.gov.uk%2Fassets%2Fattach%2F2002%2FShardlow%2520Statement%2520adopted%25202014.pdf&usg=AOvVaw27LmwGJnWWAgoD4wIY7zOj)
-
This has turned into a fascinating thread thanks to Mark, bbart and others.
Some excellent discoveries and although long, your link is very interesting bbart. I expect Matt may have seen this publication but it rounds things out for others who are following this thread. :)
-
Yes Ruskie. It's fascinating and answering so many questions! I really appreciate the interest. It shows the Internet at its best.
I did see the Shardlow conservation area statement - the fire would explain the absence of the lead detail on the roof it refers to.
Thanks everyone!
Matt
-
Hello
For the House name, I think this may need more research and to see whether the house name was changed, or even changed back to an old name.
The Rectory is to the East and Broughton House even further away.
----------
There is an 1863 newspaper Court Case in the Leeds Mercury (column too long to post here in full) mentioning James Clifford of Broughton House, Shardlow and even earlier dates than the 1831 Will. The case mentioning the Sutton and Clifford surnames was about the alleged unlawful removal of a page from the Church Register.
It might be useful when researching the family, as it will be surviving Sutton and other owners documents mainly, for House history tracing and research.
----------
"Extension to Shardlow Conservation Area" 1992 attached pdf link (wouldn't open, so removed & see next post)
Public Footpaths are usually two dotted lines, it would appear the Dower House property boundary is described, named and house is numbered 81 London Road, abutting a Public Footpath, in the attached Order.
You will need the correct dated OS Map (not the one featured) for the OS Field Numbers to correspond to those in the 1992 Conservation Area Order, or you might get a Copy of the Order (with Map) from a Principal Library or Council Offices, etc., that holds these Public Notices. Your Solicitor ought to have provided you with this, as it appears to abut a boundary?
The 1959 Fire mentioned by another Rootschatter might be useful as it gives the Occupant's Name Mrs Marion Booth, which might also be useful, if she appears in an Electoral Roll, or old Telephone Book.
Mark
-
I will try again, 1992 Order. Works now.
-
For the House name, I think this may need more research and to see whether the house name was changed, or even changed back to an old name.
I absolutely agree it needs more research. Figuring out the route the census enumerator took is probably the best bet, as the folks listed are actually living there. All over the UK I can find articles on City Councils approving name changes for homes, but not a peep from Shardlow.... so frustrating! In 1841, Mary, the widow of James Sutton, called her home "villa" on the census, but it was down by the Quay area. There was a Grove House near the Pub across from Matt's, but years later (or earlier, I can't remember now), it was down by Moorside. I'm pretty certain all these folks knew that Matt would be along in a century and a half wanting to know, so they traded/dropped/changed their house names, and are all giggling in their graves. So the hunt goes on.
As for the article on the shooting:
Derby Daily Telegraph 29 June 1914 (page 3)
Title: Fatal Accident to Dr. Hogg
The article is of the inquest, held at Dr. Hogg's house, by Mr. W.R.H. Whiston, deputy coroner. It seems that the main question was whether it was accidental, or intentional. Dr Hogg often hunted, and always cleaned his own guns.
The first witness was Miss Hogg, daughter of the deceased identified him, and gave his age as 45. She states he was cheerful when he set out to hunt rabbits, and saw him carrying a gun, around 10 a.m.. She saw him cross a field, and a while later heard a shot. She saw him returning home, and shortly after heard a shot from his surgery, where she hurriedly went to, and found her father lying on top of the gun. He told her that he was cleaning his gun, and it accidentally went off. Miss Hogg telephoned Dr. Turpin of Alverston to come.
The second witness was Arthur Hudson, the gardener. He saw the Dr. before he went out, as the Dr. passed the coach-house where Arthur was working. A while later, Arthur heard one shot, and then saw the Dr. return, who told him he missed the rabbit, and to get the motor ready so he could do his rounds. Dr. Hogg appeared to be in his normal mood. Within five minutes, Arthur heard a shot in the surgery, and ran there immediately, where he found Dr. Hogg lying on the floor, bleeding and moaning. Dr. Hogg told him that he was cleaning his gun and it went off. He helped the Dr. up but he lied back down on the floor.
Third witness was Police Constable Wright, of Shardlow. He arrived around 11:30, after Dr. Turpin had attended Dr. Hogg. The constable found two guns; one had two spent cartridges but did not appear to have been fired for several days, and the other had a recently discharged spent cartridge in the right chamber, and the left chamber was empty. The gun only required a very light pull to discharge. There was bloody clothes and a pool of blood on the floor. He examined the clothes and traced the course of the shot to the ceiling, where it had entered the ceiling.
Fourth witness was Dr. Turpin, who said upon his arrival he found Dr Hogg lying on his back suffering a severe hemorrhage, but was conscious. Dr. Hogg told him he was cleaning his gun and it went off. Dr Turpin's examination found a circular wound in the side, with the shot passing out his back below the ribs. He concluded that the gun barrel must have been very close, if not touching, the body when the weapon was fired. He was with Dr Hogg when he passed away. He believe that Dr Hogg was in good health, and had no special worries, and was cheerful when his saw him last.
The Deputy Coroner concluded that the Dr must have forgotten it was loaded, leaned on the muzzle while cleaning the gun, as the state of the clothes testified, and as it was easily fired went off accidentally.
-
A new member has contributed to Matt's other thread and they believe that The Villa = Dower House.
-
A new member has contributed to Matt's other thread and they believe that The Villa = Dower House.
And now poor Matt will be ripping his house apart looking for priest holes and secret cellars!
Thanks for posting that, Ruskie; I hadn't posted over there, so no notifications.
-
A new member has contributed to Matt's other thread and they believe that The Villa = Dower House.
And now poor Matt will be ripping his house apart looking for priest holes and secret cellars!
Thanks for posting that, Ruskie; I hadn't posted over there, so no notifications.
Of course! It’s only natural! :)
It’s all very exciting isn’t it?
-
Hello
For the House name, I think this may need more research and to see whether the house name was changed, or even changed back to an old name.
...
Mark
Hello
It does look to be a house with two names during the 20th Century, The Villa / The Dower House.
Thank you Matt and all, most interesting.
Matt also mentioned the field was called The Old Homestead 18th Century, Reply 37
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812640.msg6734369#msg6734369
Useful when Matt gets back into the Landowner and/or Manor documents, where they have survived.
Link to the other thread
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=806900.msg6735051#msg6735051
Reply 24
The poster referred to an old listing too.
Matt,Probate Wills from 1858 to current (pdf copies) can be purchased online for £10 or from HM Probate Registries / Courts Service, their site is a gov.uk website.
If you require a stamp embossed Copy, we use to apply through the Priory Courts, Birmingham (our nearest Probate Registry).
Mark
-
Some possible sources for researching the family, which might mention their Property, Lands or Tenantry.
Sutton of Shardlow
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=Sutton%20of%20Shardlow&_dss=range&_ro=any&_st=adv
Clifford of Shardlow (have links with the Sutton family)
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_ep=Clifford%20of%20Shardlow&_dss=range&_ro=any&_st=adv
Estate Surveys and Rentals and some Accounts, mention Property and Tenantry, or Deeds when the Estate changes hands. Also Wills.
Sometimes when a wealthy Estate married another wealthy Estate, the couple would have a Marriage Settlement to establish property rights in the event of death etc., that kind of thing.
Some Record Offices may have uncatalogued items, but hopefully Handlists (a summary by Document title with a Catalogue ref only). Landed families often had property and lands in many counties.
It can be a lengthy business checking and not often fruitful, but when you find something linked, it is a real gem.
Mark
-
It’s all very exciting isn’t it?
I was absolutely thrilled to read Glynno's post! I have been working on a time line of articles/names associated with the house, and when it is ready to post (my notes are such a mess to sort out!), I think I will post it in the other thread.
Mark - you seem to be very knowledgeable about all these old houses, so I have a question for you. Does it make any sense that house would be renamed to "Dower House" if in fact, it was not a dower house, in the true sense of the word? Also, wouldn't there have to be Council approval, which I have seen in other areas, or some other legal formalities? I do believe the house had a different name in the early 1800's, so any advice would be welcome!
Circling back now, to the original question of this post.
The Charles Thorold living in the house in 1851 with his wife and sisters was not living there in 1841. Although a similar surname, I don't think it was him.
Charles Thorold was the son of Benjamin Hart Thorold, and Charles and two sisters were living in Harmston in 1841. He's very easy to track, as it was a rather well known family.
Charles died very young, and there is a mini-bio on his findagrave: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/130547759
There is, in Belper and surrounding areas, a Thrall family. I have seen it misspelled as Thrawle, Thrawell, etc... but it seems most went by Thrall. I have yet to find a Charles Thrall who's occupation would lead one to believe they would live there, but I haven't looked overly hard either. Most seem to be in the silk industry, as dyers, etc. It may not be this family, but it's a name to keep on the back burner!
Matt, your house has been so much fun to work on! Any other discoveries, and hopefully a timeline, I will post in the other thread!
-
I agree that it is really exciting! So much has been learned from posting the original question about a signature.
The Charles Thorold connection is fascinating. He was young (25) in the 1851 census and there with a wife and sisters. It was his name in the Tithe Apportionment book from the 1840s (not sure which year - I have notes suggesting 1840 but I would need to check). There will no doubt be a story behind how he left Harmston at such a young age and found himself in Shardlow...
I hope to find out some more details of previous inhabitants next week - hopefully I will be meeting Glynn's father who has some of the paper deeds.
Thanks again to everyone for their efforts here.
Matt
-
Also, wouldn't there have to be Council approval, which I have seen in other areas, or some other legal formalities? I do believe the house had a different name in the early 1800's, so any advice would be welcome!
Hello
Council Planning Departments usually had a Card Index by property address (ours did), listing any old Planning Application title/s, date/s and the respective Planning Reference Number/s, if any applications (before computerisation). Council Planning Departments should still have these Card Indexes and Planning Files, as there was a requirement mid 20th Century (before computerisation) to retain Planning records, in England.
Regarding Street naming and numbering two Acts are:-
Towns Improvement Clauses Act 1847
Sections 64 & 65.
The Public Health Act 1925
Sections 17, 18 and 19.
If a House is in a Conservation Area or formerly/currently a Listed Building, worth checking those Planning Applications too (if any were noted).
Mark
-
Thanks for that information, Mark!
After Dr. Hogg passed away, it looks like Dr. Sydney Gay and wife moved in. In 1919 she is selling off all the furniture and in 1920 Dr Gay passes away at age 52. (Sources: 13 December 1919 - Derbyshire Advertiser and Journal and 03 January 1920 Derbyshire Advertiser and Journal )
I'm trying to get the timing of the name change to see if perhaps Mrs. Gay was the "dower" if indeed there was one.
Thanks again!
-
Hello
Two Prerogative Court of Canterbury (PCC) Wills, for Leonard Fosbrooke of Shardlow
Will of Leonard Fosbrooke of Shardlow Hall , Derbyshire.
02 September 1830
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D270604
A very quick read of the first few pages only of the 1830, Fosbrooke mentions upon his death that they could sell one of his Estates (Shardlow named, with others) which might sell.
Estates were usually broken up into Lots and offered for Sale at Auctions (some advertised briefly in newspapers) and therefore not unusual for some Lots to remain unsold and still in the family ownership later.
A small snippet from the 1830 Will ...
And whereas by the Settlement made previous to my Marriage with my said dear wife Mary Elizabeth Fosbrooke a rent charge of five hundred pounds is secured to her my said wife in case she shall survive me and her assigns for life ...
So there was a Marriage Settlement once, before the 1830 Fosbrooke Will and their Marriage.
Also mentioned so far in the Will, Lands at Ravenstone and Snibston Leicestershire.
She was nee Mary Elizabeth Story and according to the Plantagenet Roll of the Blood Royal, her Father was the Rev. Philip Story of Lockington Hall.
You are probably already looking at the Records of the Fosbrooke family of Shardlow D 447 at Derbyshire R.O. (other related family items in other collections)
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/c/F16483
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/N13628693
----------
Will of Leonard Fosbrooke of Shardlow, Derbyshire
20 July 1763
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D487021
----------
These references in Burke's 19th Century books are useful for their family history and to find possible locations of other possible surviving document sources etc., should those at Derby R.O., be incomplete.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YdIKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA434&lpg=PA434&dq=Description:+Will+of+Leonard+Fosbrooke+of+Shardlow&source=bl&ots=qFyrj-9b1L&sig=ACfU3U1OWj0p2aIgfedmilGrNdVVXq0SkA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiYr5PTwqTiAhWDVBUIHenBBQ4Q6AEwCHoECAkQAQ
----------
General Comments
If there was a 'Tail' on an English Estate, where it passes to a Son and Heir or a Daughter Heiress, then there may be an Estate Act, or Estates Act, (with a family name in the Act title), to break the 'Tail'. Some are held locally or in the Parliamentary Archives.
Oh yes, it is very exciting stuff, for the enquiring mind wanting a challenge.
Knowing their Family History too is useful, because when these great and medium sized Landowners died or moved house some Manuscripts were sometimes taken by them or family to one of their other Estates / Seats, or Sold off as Manuscripts with their great Libraries, or left with their Solicitors, or even left with the new owner of their former Seat or House, who have kept items in their house or family and now deposited them in Record Offices or University Special Collections, where they subsequently lived or died.
Wills online are only a small part of the Wills actually held.
Regarding a Manor of interest to me, they conducted an Enquiry / Inquiry Post Mortem between 1606 to 1608 into her Lands and her Estate Lands are listed by Field name too, some of which can be found in earlier Courts Baron Surveys, Surveys and Rentals of the Estate in the Medieval period.
It is really an offence to destroy old House Deeds, which go back into the Manor period, as they will very likely be Manorial documents.
Hopefully the Manor and Estate documents will be more useful.
A local lady told me their Solicitor binned their 400 year old Map and documents in front of them, because the property was now Registered, now she only has 200 year old Deeds, which have no original Map, only a modern Plan in a Sales Brochure marking the land, when her family offered the site for sale.
UK Land Registry Office, current documents and Maps at First Registration held for my area are usually only 20th Century at best, despite the Lands being mentioned in the time of Henry II and a rich source of documents going back 600 years and more.
----------
Generally. A Homebuyer should always read these Registered Titles too (not just the online summary) as the Title ought to summarise Covenants and Responsibilities at first Registration and have a Plan too.
New or recent Housing Estates are hiding so much in these wordy Conveyance documents, especially future costs that people simply sign to be responsible to pay for without even reading it (e.g. including a share of the future cost of part of the new housing estate road which the council never adopted part of, shared street lighting, or another was maintenance and repairs of a massive retaining wall which also gave rights for the Council to seize the 'Freehold' property if they couldn't pay). Conveyances and Plans should be read and checked at your own pace, which can be fully enquired about or an opinion sought first, before proceeding.
Mark
-
Thank you all but particularly Mark and BBart for your efforts in helping me research my home's history. At present, we are just getting started on what will be a mammoth building project renovating the house and there aren't enough hours in the day to get fully immersed in the historical research. I really want to get the family moved in for Christmas!!
I certainly look forward to doing more research when time permits.
A couple of interesting angles here...
The house seems to have been used as a doctor's surgery for some years. After Dr Hogg, there was Dr Gay and Glynn also mentioned a Dr Legg whose waiting room was at the back of the house where we have a dining room.
Earlier posts suggested the house might have been used as the rectory based on census information. My contact at the local heritage centre suggested that Shardlow Manor had previously been the rectory. That is a larger house on London Road and a bit closer to the church that was built around 1840.
Thanks once again!
Matt
-
It's been a few years since I looked at the history of our ca. 1750 home in any detail. The help I receive here was so helpful. I started the thread looking for a name listed in the 1840s tithe survey book from the country records office in Derbyshire which looked like it might be Charles Thorell.
Subsequent help and investigation unearthed a Charles Thorold aged 25 listed in the 1851 census but it was unclear who lived here in 1841 and some uncertainty about 1861 and 1871. Charles Thorold lives elsewhere in 1841.
I've looked back at the tithes survey book and map in hope of further clues - the accompanying book states that the survey was carried out in 1849 which is much later in the decade than I had first considered and therefore it is more likely that Charles Thorell in the book is Charles Thorold in the census 2 years later.
I had originally thought that there had been a mistake made in the information collected as the house normally had more than 1 occupant. Elsewhere in the tithe book there are multiple residents listed but not in this case. The owner of the land/property is listed as James Sutton which matches expectations and the pasture land has an appropriate value compared with other properties on the map. The name of The Old Homestead also matches previous older maps.
-
1851
A possible marriage for Charles Thorold? Parish of St George, Hanover Square, Westminster, Maria, born Spain per Census, in 1852, (nee Maria Antonia Paz, her father Nicholas Paz, Capt in the Army).
At the marriage he gave his Father as Benjamin Hart Thorold, Gent'm.
Property "Villa" Shardlow, in 1841
Looking at the names of those adjacent in the London Road, to Charles Thorold "Villa" Shardlow in the 1851 Census, it seems in the 1841 Census the Enumerator had listed them and the "Villa" under Derby Road.
1841 Census, Derby Road, Shardlow
Catharine Cook, 45, Char Woman, Y.
Edmund Cook, 13, Y.
& 2 others in the household.
--
Sarah Henshall, 25, Y.
& Children.
[Benjamin Newham, 49, Gardener and household in 1851]
--
Richard Nicklinson, 60, N.
Sarah Nicklinson, 50, N.
Catharine Clarke, 7, Y.
William Hughson, 20 Wheelwright, Y.
--
Villa
Mary Sutton, 65, Ind. N.
George Henshall, 25, M.S., N.
Harriet Gibbons, 20, F.S., N.
Probably a relative of the owner you mentioned, of Independent means, with two Servants.
----------
There is a newspaper listing November 1846 in the Deaths
On Sunday, at Shardlow union house, Mrs. Mary Sutton, aged 78.
Added: two Leicester newspapers say Mary Sutton dying Union House, Shardlow, was of Castle Donington.
A bit too old (78) even allowing for the rounding down of adults to the nearest 5 years of the 1841 Census (e.g. 69 rounded down to the 65) and adding 5 years on to 69 (1841 to 1846).
Mark
-
1842 Pigot & Co., Directory.
Gentry
Mrs Mary Sutton, Shardlow.
----------
Interesting comments from Glynno at Reply #24 on the other thread about the original Listing and the G.P., being Dr Bell ...
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=806900.msg6735051#msg6735051
-
That's very interesting reading. It suggests the house has been called The Villa from the time of the 1851 census and Charles Thorold to 1914 and John Hogg.
...
James Sutton's will (1831) unfortunately does not seem to specify a recognisable name or description for the house which is unfortunate. We do know from other sources that the land is referred to as The Old Homestead and indeed the first map of Shardlow prepared for Leonard Fosbrooke in the 1760s seems to show that name...
On the subject of wills, is there anything mentioned in James Sutton Jr's will? He left his estate to Edward Sutton and it is his name as the owner in the 1910 Land Valuation Survey. My contact at the heritage centre suggested the estate was not sold off until the 1960s.
I don't know who was there at the house after John Hogg. Sylvester Calvert, a Jeweller, is there at the time of the 1939 Register. I have a copy of his photo from the heritage centre in the village too.
A newspaper advert says the Shardlow Hall Estate was being Let by A. Sutton, Bridekirk, ...
Added:
23 September 1899 Farm, Shardlow Hall Estate, Derbyshire ... to be Let
A. Sutton, Bridekirk, Cockermouth.
Looks like A. Sutton of Bridekirk was Son of James ...
1881 Marriage at Marylebone,
Alfred Sutton, 30, Bach., Clerk, Bridekirk Vicarage, Cumberland, Father: James Sutton, Esquire.
married
Bertha Frances Entwisle Walker, 25, ...
----------
Did you get the Will of James Sutton, Proved 21st February 1868?
They were £1.50 per Will from the Probate Registry at gov.uk
----------
A newspaper reference to an Edward Sutton who who once resided at Shardlow Hall, dying Lincolnshire.
Mark
-
Have you seen the 1766 Map in the Derbyshire Record Office to check your house location, or for any name, building name or field name at that location, etc?
If Fosbrooke didn't own the relevant piece of land, some Plans have the owner's name on the blank area.
D1326/A/P/1
Shardlow enclosure award, 1757
D1326/A/P/2. Map of the parish of Shardlow and Great Wilne the estate of Leonard Fosbrooke, by John Whyman. 1766. Parish of Shardlow St James. 1766
--------
In 1849 Tithe Apportionment what were the field names?
---------
Probate Calendar, snippets
1939 Probate of Alfred Sutton of Bridekirk, Cockermouth.
Possibly the 1926 Probate of Edward Sutton (refers to reverend Alfred Sutton, Clerk).
They would be too late, if the Sutton family had already sold (although a seller has been known to occasionally provide a Mortgage to the buyer, which may be mentioned in the late seller's Will).
Mark
-
Regarding the Enclosure of Shardlow there is a claim online that small parts of Shardlow were acquired by Holden of nearby Aston on Trent, at Enclosure.
https://www.astonontrenthistory.org.uk/holden-estate-village/
----------
Mrs Mary Sutton of Shardlow Purchased an Advowson
In a history of Shardlow and Wilne, page 160, it says
Edward A. Holden, Esq., is the patron of the perpetual curacy, who in 1839 sold the Advowson to Mrs Mary Sutton of Shardlow.
https://books.google.com/books/about/History_gazetteer_and_directory_of_Derby.html?id=GvoGAAAAQAAJ#v=onepage&q=%22Mary%20Sutton%20of%20Shardlow%22&f=false
----------
Did Mary Sutton of Shardlow leave a Will
Did Mrs Mary Sutton of Shardlow leave a Will or Administration and is her Probate Registered in the Will Calendars, probably at Derby County Record Office?
1841 Shardlow Census
Villa.
Mary Sutton, 65, Independant, N. (Not born same County). Occupying Villa with two Servants.
1842 Also Mrs Mary Sutton listed as Gentry in Pigot's Directory.
Mark
-
Thank you Mark!
You have unearthed quite a few leads... To be honest, I have only just picked up on the house history having been working for almost 5 years full time on the building work of the house. There's a long way to go still but getting there.
The 1841 census looks like we now have all census entries. I was unaware that a Sutton had lived in the house. That's great thank you.
I should probably look to piece together the Sutton family tree to get a better idea of some of the players involved. The names I am familiar with are Edward Sutton, eldest son of James and Henry Sutton the second son whose daughter married a Liberal MP Julius Bertram.
The Villa/Dower House along with one of two cottages adjacent to the house, was purchased by Lavinia Calvert in the 1930s. The cottage was later gifted to her daughter Sylvia and husband in 1944. Sylvia then acquired the other cottage from the Sutton estate around 1960 and at some stage demolished them. Glynno pointed out in a previous message that Lavinia and Sylvia had fallen out and would not sell The Dower House to her. The previous owner of The Dower House then purchased the land where the cottages had been in the 1990s but did not register the titles for 20 years. Although I don't have the deeds from the sale of the Dower House from Lavinia Calvert onwards, they were included in the pack that came with the land sale for the cottages. That worked out well.
I probably need to look at the deeds in more detail - I'm not really sure what I am looking for.
In terms of what I have found at the Derbyshire records office, there was a conveyancing document from 1812 between Leonard Fosbrooke and James Sutton (presumably the senior one). Unfortunately I didn't have much time to investigate and it was some time ago... I didn't find specific mention of the Villa/Dower House. I wonder if this is the transfer of the estate... Whoever did the Wikipedia entry for Shardlow Hall suggested it was 1826. This might have been an earlier land transfer I suppose - Fosbrooke allegedly was in financial trouble.
I did look for all the relevant maps of Shardlow - there was an early one from 1766/67 that was not at all clear. I'll check this again.
I did have a quick look at the copy of his will at the records office. It was the first time I had seen an old will and I probably missed something important. I didn't see any reference to the house but owning so many properties, I might have missed it. I should probably order his will as you suggest. £1.50 seems very reasonable!
When I look at the physical evidence around the house, different brick types and other architectural details, I see phases of development over time that I suspect can be attributed to different owners. The house was dated at 1750 by previous owners but there's little that I have found to support this. The windows were flush with the brickwork rather than set back as other newer parts of the house are. I think was an early building regulation from the 1760s. I've always considered there was a Georgian structure that was then altered significantly in early Victorian times. A later Victorian addition of a second storey on top of an older structure was added later with a much different brick. I found artefacts down the back of a fireplace from 1910 but I don't have much to go on!
That's about it for now. Thanks again for your very helpful input!
-
Look for an Abstract or Epitome of Title. Some go back to the Manor, like our village Ale-house sold by the Manor in 1766. The 1766 transaction was also formally recorded on the reverse of an 1800 Conveyance.
The earliest new owners (1766 - 1813) of the Pub were listed in a page of the Manor Rent Book listed as paying a 'Fee Farm or Quit Rent', also with a reference to the last two Manorial Tenants (named), who were then found in an earlier Manorial Survey and Manor Rental.
Other Abstracts don't go back that far. The Registry once told me that some old properties have also been separated out of other neighbouring property Deeds.
Mark
-
Derbyshire Advertiser and Journal, February 1930
SHARDLOW.-TO BE LET or SOLD, detached
FREEHOLD RESIDENCE, known as The
Villa: 3 reception-rooms, dining-room. 6
bedrooms, bathroom, and the usual offices.
Stabling. Rent £75 p.a.-Jameson & Messenger,
77, Chancery-lane, London.
-
Thanks again Mark.
I looked at the various documents from Land Registry. In the 1936 collection of documents I found the 'abstract of the title of the trustees of the will of Sir Henry Sutton deceased to freehold hereditaments at Shardlow...'
There's a bit of a history of the Sutton family that I need to get to grips with. There is also a schedule detailing the property owned around Shardlow and beyond... I've attached this as a photo - it shows the hall was let by O. Wyatt who also also let the Dower House.
Lots more to look at...
-
Hello Matt
William Hood
I was wondering if William Hood might be mentioned amongst your collection of earlier documents, who was mentioned in the 1831 Will of James Sutton, please?
Wyatt of Shardlow
Searched Wyatt of Shardlow and the main newspaper references are to O. P. Wyatt letting the village hold the Fete in the grounds of the Hall, not much else.
General
The big lengthy Abstract of Title of my Hood ancestor went back to the Lord of the Manor who was being propped up by Bankers, prior to an 1835 Sale of part of the Manor.
Two of his Sons were later Jurors at the Manor Court.
Thanks, Mark
...
Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills
PROB 11/1783/237
Will of James Sutton of Shardlow, Derbyshire
2nd March 1831
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D252845
I am particularly interested in Thos Turner and William Hood, being near Warehouses and the River Trent.
...
Mark
-
Hello Matt
1831 Will of James Sutton of Shardlow, Derbyshire.
Apparently, land near Cavendish Bridge, called Dukes Piece with appurts in the several occupations of Thomas Turner, William Hood and Thomas Winfield Boat Captain ...
Thank you, if you come across anything in the future, Mark
-
Thanks again Mark for your input on this. I will of course keep an eye open for William Hood.
I've been filling in some census details today. There is no mention of The Villa in the 1861,71,81 and 91 census records but there is a good possibility that John Eaton, Rector of Shardlow in all 4 of these is the person I am looking for. He dies in 1897 and has a useful annotation in the burial record stating he was rector for 45 years. The next burial at the churchyard a few days later sounds rather gruesome mind you!
-
"Eaton rector" search
Marriage of Mary Sutton daughter of James Sutton
Numerous newspapers 1st to 12th November 1864
Cantrell-Sutton On Thursday, the 27th ult., Shardlow, Derbyshire, by the Rev. John Eaton, rector, the Rev. W. H. Cantrell, of King’s Newton, to Mary, eldest daughter of James Sutton, Esq., Shardlow Hall.
----------
Looking at the adjacent Householder Schedule numbers one side of The Villa in 1851 Census:-
Richard Nicklinson (Nickolson 1861)
Sarah Nicklinson
Benjamin Newham (Newsham)
Catharine Cook (Catherine Cook 1861)
1861 Elizabeth Shardlow, Head, W, 76, Publican.
It does seem in the 1861 Census that John Eaton was occupying the property.
Mark
-
18th August 1869
Shardlow Horticultural Show.
Mentions ... Miss Eaton, of the Rectory, ...
1891 Census
"The Rectory", John Eaton, Head, S, 67, Rector of Shardlow Clergy, born Sutton on the Hill, Derbyshire.
Elizabeth L Eaton, Sister, S, 66, Living on her Own Means, born Sutton on the Hill, Derbyshire.
14th September 1870
Castle Donington.
Cavendish Bridge Brewery Festivities.- On Wednesday last, George Trussell Eaton, Esq., of the Cavendish Bridge Brewery, gave his annual dinner to the workmen and tradesmen ...
Mr G. T. Eaton mentioned in previous years at social events mostly hosted by John Eaton, Rector, of Shardlow, seems to be related.
Reply Amended and the following Added:
5th August 1988
COFFEE To celebrate St James’s Day at Shardlow Church coffee evening was held at Shardlow Manor Retirement Home formerly Shardlow Rectory A large number of people were attracted to the event ...
Mark
-
Many thanks Mark.
I will do a more comprehensive search of the Eaton family. The Cavendish Bridge Brewery buildings are still in existence but now a sorry state of car workshops, scaffolders and metal recycling units but look to have a fascinating history when the time is available to investigate.
I did find out that Mary Sutton from 1841 was the aunt of James Sutton Esq. More work to do on that one.
I was aware that Shardlow Manor has been the rectory in the past - that was the line from the heritage centre. I think we have shown that The Villa/Dower House was at one stage also the rectory but I will discuss with the heritage centre in future.
What do you use to find the newspaper articles?
Out of interest, I haven't looked at the 1921 census - just wondering what search term would be needed to find the right page to buy the image.
Thanks again.
-
A link to your 1910 Valuation Survey, which also gave the occupation of James Hawkins premises, numbered 186.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=806900.msg6696139#msg6696139
----------
The names who are Head of a household in the vicinity in the 1901 Census who also appear in the 1891 Census seem to be James Hawkins; Joseph Stone; Mary Henshall.
It seems John Eaton may have referred to The Villa, as The Rectory.
----------
There were two Rectors living in Shardlow.
In the 1891 Census quite close to John Eaton, was William Roby Burgin, who also died 1897.
Both Rectors:- John Eaton and William Roby Burgin left Wills. But the Calendar (indexes) don't give addresses, like some earlier gov.uk Probate Calendars.
-
The Long Eaton Advertiser, 22 May 1897
FUNERAL OF THE LATE RECTOR OF SHARDLOW.
The funeral of the late Rev. William Roby Burgin, of Shardlow took place on Monday afternoon at the Oak’s Church, Leicestershire. The deceased passed away on the previous Wednesday after an illness of a few days’ duration, at the age of 91. ... He had been resident at Shardlow about 45 years, and was a large owner of property, part of which is only heritable. ...
----------
British Newpaper Archive (BNA) online, but search and images are included with some types of F M P membership.
Because of OCR scanning, some searches may require different search terms, or checking pages around a known date.
----------
A Keyword box, Exact ticked, under Search All Records (on Anc.) for "Villa Shardlow" ...
The Medical Registers
1920 - 1925
Bernard George Gutteridge, Villa, Shardlow, Derby.
Medical Registers
1925 - 1937
Mary Caroline Bell, (Mrs) (formerly Lindsay), The Villa, Shardlow, Derby.
----------
A newspaper says Dr Hogg was appointed to Shardlow in 1895.
Dr Hogg probably moved in after the occupant's death?
Mark
-
Looks like John Eaton's, Sister, Elizabeth L. Eaton, living with him in the 1891 Census. ...
Leicester Chronicle, 23rd December 1893
EATON.— On the 12th inst, at Shardlow, Elizabeth Louisa, third daughter of the late Wm. Eaton, of Etwall, aged 68 years.
---------
Even the March 1897 Cumberland and Sons, Furniture Sale advert for John Eaton, with brief furniture descriptions, Funeral Notice, Executors Notice, only gave the address as Shardlow.
---------
John Eaton in Crockford's Clerical Directory 1885
Earlier in the 1868 Edition
Patron, James Sutton, Esq.
According to the 1885 Abbreviations:-
Patron, the Representatives of the late James Sutton, Esq.
T.R.C. Tithe Rent Charge.
Formerly Curate / Curacy of Sutton on the Hill, Derby, 1847-49.
----------
Marriage of another Sutton ...
Leicester Guardian, 13th September 1871.
Miss Sutton of Shardlow Hall and William Hodson Lloyd, of the Midland Circuit [adds Barrister in another paper]
Other names mentioned: Hy Sutton, Alfred Sutton
Bridesmaids, Miss Sophia Sutton, Miss Lucy Sutton, Miss Louisa Sutton and Miss Susan Sutton, sisters of the bride, Miss Anwyl and Miss Kate Anwyl cousins of the Bridegroom and Miss Wadham.
-
You've unearthed all manner of interesting information there. The second rector William Roby Burgin is almost certainly living at Shardlow Manor in 1881 and 1891 (104 on the 1910 survey) - you can plot the route between the two houses. This is where the heritage centre had suggested was the rectory. It's not clear to me that he was rector at Shardlow parish church as John Eaton fulfilled this role from the 18n50s. I noticed the heritage centre had a photo of John Eaton and his successor RL Farmer.
William Roby Burgin was according to his Cambridge University alumi entry 'for many years Domestic Chaplain to the Baroness de Clifford, at Shardlow, Derbs'. I'm not sure exactly what that involved but something to look at. His probate listing indicates he was very wealthy.
Thanks for the medical registry info. I suspect the 1921 census will help there with Gutteridge.
-
There's another detail that I am interested in as I have spent nearly 5 years working on the building here. There have been two major alterations made to the house over the years as indicated by the different bricks used during the work that would have meant the house was uninhabitable.
I suspect that the original Fosbrooke era house underwent major changes when James Sutton (sr/jr) acquired the house and probably in time for his sister/aunt Mary Sutton to move in. It will probably be very difficult to find out much about this period.
The rear of the house was originally single storey but a second storey was added along with a lean-to both in a very different brick to the earlier house and additions. I'm researching this type of brick as it is more uniform, harder and much newer than the other soft handmade bricks elsewhere. This would have been a big undertaking... All I can go on is a Christmas card received by Amy Hogg in 1911 was found behind a fireplace in the room that was added on. Maybe this work was completed between the Eaton and Hogg tenancies?
-
Dobson of Shardlow Hall
It looks like Dobson were Occupiers of Shardlow Hall, after the Sutton Family?
1899 Marriage of Dobson's Son
At St Mary East Molesey, January 1899.
Albert George Dobson of Shardlow Hall, near Derby, Gentleman, Son of William Dobson of Shardlow Hall, married
Miss Leila de Sausmarez of the Parish of St Mary, East Molesey, daughter of Lionel Andros de Sausmarez, Commander in the Royal Navy.
Added:
Albert George Dobson, died 1947.
Leila De Sausmarez, his Wife, Daughter of Commander L. A. De Sausmarez, A. M. R. N., died 1949.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/262247676/leila-dobson
----------
1910 Valuation Survey photos.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=806900.msg6696139#msg6696139
1925 Edward Sutton, of Market Deeping and Shardlow Hall
Lincolnshire Standard, 12th December 1925
DEATH OF MR. E. SUTTON, OF MARKET DEEPING.
The death is announced of Mr. Edward Sutton, J.P., of Maxey House, Market Deeping and Shardlow Hall, Derbyshire. For nearly 30 years Mr. Sutton had been a magistrate for parts of Kesteven, and was also Justice of the Peace for the Counties of Derby and Leicester.
He was 82 years of age, and Brother of the late Sir Henry Sutton, a Judge of the King's Bench, who was one of the counsel for the Crown in the trial of Dr Jameson.
Alfred Sutton of Bridekirk, Cockermouth, Cumberland
1897 and 1899 A. Sutton of Bridekirk, Cockermouth, was advertising bits of the Shardlow Hall Estate ...
2 & 9th January 1897, titled Shardlow Hall Estate, to Let, Trent Lane Farm and Park Lane Farm, Castle Donington, occupied by Mr Carr. Wilne Lane Farm, Shardlow.
Estate Plans and Building Plans
The current owner of Shardlow Hall, might have the odd old Plan or not?
Unfortunately, the Shardlow Hall Estate may have been sold piecemeal, so old Estate Plans might end up with Solicitors, selling the last properties or part?
Occasionally, old Estate Plans might survive amongst the descendants, map collectors, or in deposited in any Archive? We can't name the living on here and I don't know who they are.
Some Planning Departments retained Planning Application Plans from the 19th Century or have deposited them in Archives.
Large scale OS Maps
https://maps.nls.uk/
20th Century Aerial photos held by English Heritage / Historic England at Swindon.
https://historicengland.org.uk/about/contact-us/historic-england-archive/
-
Sir Henry Sutton, Son of the late James Sutton, Esq., of Shardlow Hall
Henry Sutton married Caroline Elizabeth Nanson.
Sheffield and Rotherham Independent, 5th October 1872
Sutton - Nanson.— Oct 2, at St. John's Church, Houghton, Cumberland, Henry Sutton, Esq., barrister-at-law, second surviving son of the late James Sutton, Esq., of Shardlow Hall, Derbyshire, to Caroline Elizabeth, eldest daughter of John Nanson, Esq., of Knells, Cumberland.
Children found born Reg'n District of Kensington (with Mother M.S., Nanson):-
Dorothy Caroline Sutton, born 1874.
Humfrey Sutton, born 1876.
Marjorie Sutton, born 1878.
Amabel Mary Sutton, born 1879.
Henry Geoffrey Sutton, born 1880.
Lettice Joyce Sutton, born 1885.
1881 Census, Kensington
Henry Sutton, Head, Mar, 36, Barister at Law, Wilne Shardlow, Derbyshire.
...
Bertha M Nanson, Sister-in-Law, 22, born Carlisle. [Previously in 1871 a Pupil at Broughton House, Shardlow].
Sir Henry Sutton, (address given), died 30th May 1920.
Probate date in 1920.
----------
Sutton of Maxey House
The Widow of Edward Sutton of Maxey House, near Market Deeping, Mrs Frances Sutton, died 1926.
Their Probates 1926 & 1927.
-
Thanks Mark. Lots to look at there. Not had much time to carry on the search. It was of interest to read more about George Eaton's brewery at Cavendish Bridge - that's a small village/hamlet just over the other side of the river Trent.
From Henry Sutton's side, his daughter Marjorie married Julius Bertram a Liberal party MP. His name is on the house deeds for the sale to Lavinia Calvert is 1936.
I have work to do on this... Thanks again.
-
Thanks Mark. Lots to look at there. Not had much time to carry on the search. It was of interest to read more about George Eaton's brewery at Cavendish Bridge - that's a small village/hamlet just over the other side of the river Trent.
From Henry Sutton's side, his daughter Marjorie married Julius Bertram a Liberal party MP. His name is on the house deeds for the sale to Lavinia Calvert is 1936.
I have work to do on this... Thanks again.
Julius Bertram, Esq., was one of the Executors to the Will of Mrs Frances Sutton, of Deeping Gate, Proved 1927. [Widow of Edward Sutton of Maxey House, Deeping Gate].
It seems this Deeping Gate was near Market Deeping.
I wonder if Mrs Frances Sutton was left the house as a 'Dower' by Edward Sutton in his Will proved 1926?
Mark
-
Some more jottings
Pall Mall Gazette, 4 Oct 1879.
William C. Weddall, Rector of Lynby (also spelt Linby) Notts, married Susan Sutton, Daughter of the late James Sutton of Shardlow House, Derbyshire.
----------
Nottingham Journal, 13 December 1926
Report of the Probate of Mrs Sophia Richardson, of Easingwold (Yorkshire), daughter of the late Mr James Sutton of Shardlow Hall, (Derbyshire) ... claims the Will says sell my motor-car to pay towards the death duties and funeral expenses.
The Scotsman, newspaper Mrs Sophia Richardson, of Burn Hall, Easingwold, Yorks., Widow of William Benson Richardson, and daughter of the late James Sutton of Shardlow Hall, Derbyshire.
Marriage 3rd December 1879, at Shardlow.
William Benson Richardson, Widower, Solicitor of Elm Bank York, Son of William Richardson, Solicitor, Deceased, married Sophia Sutton of Shardlow Hall, Daughter of James Sutton, Deceased.
1872 Gate Helmsley, reference to William Benson Richardson. Thomas Hildyard Richardson of Burn Hall, Easingwold, the present lord of the manor. ...
British History online
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/yorks/north/vol2/pp139-140
----------
Shardlow 27th September 1876
Henry Oldham Soutter, Bachelor, Solicitor, Son of Richard Coombes Soutter married Louisa Sutton, Spinster, of Shardlow, Daughter of James Sutton, Esquire, Deceased. Present: E. Sutton, Sophia Sutton the Younger.