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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: mlmcholm on Friday 10 May 19 10:08 BST (UK)
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Hi. I’m having great difficulty in locating a baptism for George Rigby. George married Nancy Thistleton at St Michael on Wyre in 1796. The only baptism I can find is 1780 at Fernyhalgh, but that would only put him at 16, and there is another George who baptised his Children with wife Helen Miller at Fernyhalgh. George and Nancy/Ann baptised their children at Newsham. On their marriage licence it states he’s from Catforth Woodplumpton age 21. If anyone could help in order for me to determine which George is the son of Nicholas and Jennet Carter. Many thanks as always
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Hello
There is another George Rigby at Fernyhalgh
Richard George Rigby bapt 2 Mar 1776 s of William and Anna Rigby.
Have you considered him?
George Miller married Ellen Miller at Goosnargh 10 Apr 1804 wit Richard Rigby and Henry Grimbalston. No indication of bach /spinster etc
There is a Richard Rigby bapt 30 Aug 1778 to Nicholas and Joanna Rigby who may be the witness .
Their George born 19 June 1780 as you say.So a brother perhaps?
William married Anne Gornall 1 May 1775 at St John Preston
He was husbandman of Haighton and she's a spinster of Fulwood
wit Henry barns and Nicholas Rigby.
By licence so might be more info out there.
They did have another son George in 6 Dec 1797 but just plain George so they might have had two.
Burials for Fernyhalgh not on line so I can't check.
Ciderdrinker
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Thanks ciderdrinker. I did think that he could of dropped the Richard. There’s so many of the same names it’s difficult to know. All I am sure of is
• he could write
• he came from a wealthy family as the marriage bond was £200 in 1797
• There are only 3 Rigby marriages at St Michael on Wyre. Was he new to the parish?
• His children, baptised at Newsham had no Rigby’s as godparents, or Thistletons
• He named his children in line with the family of Nicholas and Jennet
• Ann/Nancy Thistleton was 18 at marriage.
• He is a witness at the marriage of Robert Hodson at St Anne’s Woodplumpton, who was baptised at Fernyhalgh.
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I have checked on Lan-opc and IGI and I can't find any children for George and Nancy from 1796 to 1820 .
did they have any - if so what are their names please ?
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Hi garstonite. George and Ann/ Nancy Thistleton baptised their children catholic at Newsham and Cottam. According to a news article in 1831 they had 12 living children, I can only account for 10
• James 1799
• Mary 1801
• Mary 1802
• Mary 1803
(All above Mary’s died in infancy)
• William 1804
• Mary 1807
• George 1808
• Robert 1810
• Helen 1812
• Richard 1813
• Nicholas 1815 d 1815
• Nicholas 1816
• Henry 1819
• Elizabeth 1822
There’s speculation that Thomas Rigby b1796 married Elizabeth Livesey at St Anne’s is also George and Anna’s son. Today I found a baptism for John Rigby 1797 at Newsham, but it says father John mother Anna, but same abode and sponsors and has Anna as Protestant.
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I count 14 in your list reply #4.
I found 13 in baptism registers of Newhouse and Cottam Catholic missions, starting with James 1799 to Mary 1807 then Robert 1810 to Nicholas 1815, all at Newhouse. (I missed George 1808.) Nicholas 1816 and Henry 1819 at Cottam. Elizabeth 1822 (didn't note where).
Ann was noted as 'catechum.' at baptism of James, 1799, i.e. she was taking instruction in Catholic faith, 'Prot' at baptisms of Mary 1801, William 1804 and Mary 1807. I think she became Catholic later. Baptisms of Nicholas 1816 and Henry have 'conj. Catholicorum', i.e. Catholic married couple. A George and Ann Rigby were godparents for Ann Hawthornthwaite, baptised at Newhouse 1814.
Robert Hodson was godfather to James 1799. Mary Hodson was gm to Mary 1802 & Mary 1803. John Hodson was gf to Mary 1803 & Mary 1807 & Helen 1812. Ellen Hodson gm to Mary 1807.John Hornby was gf at first 2 Mary baptisms.
Abode at baptisms 1799, 1802, 1804 'in pago Plumpton in paroc' (in the village or district of Plumpton in the parish). I assume that meant Woodplumpton and not Little Plumpton or Great Plumpton. Abode 1816 'Woodplumpton' and 1819 'Plumpton'. I didn't note abode for other baptisms.
Abode at deaths of the 3 infants Mary: 1801 Eaves; 1803 Woodplumpton. (LANOPC)
Newhouse burials register 22nd June 1815 'Infans Georgii Rigby'. I assume that was Nicholas, baptised 4th May 1815.
I saw the baptism of John Rigby 1797, son of John & Ann '(Prot); in pago Plumpton' in Newhouse register. Annoyingly it doesn't have Ann's maiden surname.
[Information from 'Lancashire Registers: The Fylde' (Catholic Record Society)]
I've previously noticed a few transcription errors in that CRS volume when looking up baptisms of my ancestors. Occasionally the first name of a parent was incorrect. There's also the individual styles of recording used by each priest to contend with. My 4xGGF was sometimes noted as Protestant and sometimes not. (I'd assumed, with the surname Southworth, that he was Catholic; perhaps some priests made the same assumption.)
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Thanks Maidenstone. I understood the news article in 1831 to mean that at that time he had 12 living children. I did come across a 1851 census at Whittle le woods that had a John Rigby b 1799 Woodplumpton, mother Ann b 1778 Barton, widower, which fits.
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I found George 1808. Godparents Thomas & Ann Hornby.
Ann Rigby was last noted as Protestant at baptism of Helen 1812.
There was a Catherine Rigby, daughter of Elizabeth Rigby, of Catforth baptised at Newhouse 1827. Godparents were George and Mary Rigby.
Was the 1831 newspaper article an obituary? For whom? What did it actually say re children?
There seem to have been 4 infant deaths, Mary x3 and Nicholas x1.
Ann was 18 when she married in 1796, so born c.1778. That puts her around 44 when Elizabeth was born in 1822.
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Maiden Stone the news article was from Preston Chronicle feb 5 1831 about a fire completely destroying his premises. It says ‘The property of Mr George Rigby, Catforth quarter of Woodplumpton were totally destroyed by fire. Mr Rigby was an industrious small farmer and weaver and has a family of 12 children, 8 of whom are at home with him’
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Re. marriage bond & allegation of George Rigby for his marriage to Nancy Thistleton.
This is informative from Borthwick Institute, University of York. Includes examples.
Marrying by Licence: Marriage Bonds and Allegations
https://www.york.ac.uk/media/borthwick/documents/5marriagebonds.pdf
Among points to note:
'The marriage Bond set a financial penalty on the groom and his bondsman in case the allegation shall prone to be false.'
'The sum named on the bond was not the price of the marriage licence. It was the penalty sum, and was deliberately set high to deter irregular marriages.'
The ages given on marriage bonds and allegations should be treated with caution. …. If the bond or allegation states that he was 21 or above then this is only stating that the person has reached the age of majority.'
The 1741 example shown has the sum of £200 in type on the bond.
If either bridegroom or bride was a minor, permission of father or guardian was required.
See also 'Marriage Allegations, Bonds and Licences in England and Wales' (FamilySearch)
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Marriage_Allegations_Bonds_and_Licences_in_England_and_Wales
Bonds were set between £40 and £200 according to this.
From the above information one might consider that George may have been over 21 and that he wasn't necessarily wealthy. Providing his sworn allegation was true there would never have been need for him or his bondsman to produce £200. The only money he had to pay was the cost of the licence. Cost of licences varied from a few shillings in 18thC to a few pounds at end of 19thC.
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Thanks Maiden Stone. That info was really helpful. I have a copy of the bond from Ancestry, it contains no evidence of any parental consent. His guarantor is Edmund Tovey, inn keeper from Preston. Wonder who he was? I’ve just noticed that George signed Rigby as ‘Riggby’. There is a marriage bond listed at lancs archives. Wonder if it would contain more info?
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Maiden Stone, do you know if any Ladyewell baptism records are available? If so from what date? It’s just a hunch, but there’s a John Rigby married to Ellen/Helen Boyse/Boys at Lancaster 1765, but baptised 2 children from 1774 at Fernyhalgh. Ellen was from Durton Broughton, maybe Durton lane which was very close to Ladyewell and Fernyhalgh. If the John 1797 was George’s first son, maybe he was named after his father. Many thanks
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Re reply #10. The marriage bond at Lancashire Archives will be the same as the one you've seen, I think. Do you know where Ancestry got it from?
As Nancy was a minor, consent of her father or guardian should have been recorded. See the example headed 'Marrying by Licence: Minors' in the University of York link ( reply #9). The bride in the example shown was 18. The bridegroom alleged that he intended to marry Rachel Raper, 18 years, with consent of her father, John Raper. Rachel's father had to say that he agreed to the marriage.
' …. appeared also John Raper, ye natural & Lawful Father of ye said Rachel Raper & made Oath yt he is consenting to ye aforesaid intending marriage.
Sworn before me …….. ' followed by John Raper's signature.
Did you notice in LANCAT a marriage licence dated 5th Sept. 1796 Nicholas Rigby, 21, of Woodplumpton. He married Catherine Smith, 20, also of Woodplumpton the same day at St. Michael's, St. Michael on Wyre. Witnessed by Thomas Hodson and Frances Howard. Baptisms of their children are in Newhouse register.
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Our Lady of the Well, Fernyhalgh registers are at Lancashire Archives. Some were published by Catholic Record Society. Baptism register begins 1771. Marriage register from 1838, burial register 1802 and MIs 1811.
Baptisms 1771-1833 and burials 1802-1856 are in 'Lancashire Registers 5 : Fernyhalgh, Goosnargh and Alston Lane', Catholic Record Society volume 31.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Haighton/OurLadyoftheWell
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Thanks Maiden Stone. That info was really helpful. I have a copy of the bond from Ancestry, it contains no evidence of any parental consent. His guarantor is Edmund Tovey, inn keeper from Preston. Wonder who he was? I’ve just noticed that George signed Rigby as ‘Riggby’. There is a marriage bond listed at lancs archives. Wonder if it would contain more info?
I wonder if this is Edmund - a year after the marriage of George ?
Burial: 18 Jan 1797 St John, Preston, Lancashire, England
Edmund Tovey -
Age: 40
Register: Burials 1795 - 1806, Page 14, Entry 27