RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: TwiggyTree on Saturday 11 May 19 11:20 BST (UK)
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Seeing the post Death aT Sea https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812695.0 (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=812695.0), made me wonder ...
...when there is a birth at sea, where is it genealogically accurate to record that the person was actually born?
The departure port, or arrival destination, or simply 'At sea', or the country the ship was closest too? Or do you look at the parents and take their country of birth/departure? So many options!
Look forward to your chiming in ;)
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At sea!
Other options wouldn't be accurate.
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Mmmm... that's what I have been putting;
BUT when I produce a circle diagram that is where it doesn't quite look correct, as the % citizenship is calculated, and there it seems more accurate to assign the birth to at least the country of origin of the parents. [Citizenship has always been a geographical land assignment not a sea one.]
Are births (or deaths for that matter) at sea ever recorded in a country's register ie NZ BDMH? or UK GRO?
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Can you tell us When the birth took place.
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Commenting for notification's............ :)
Frank.
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At sea, death in 1866 of a wee child, followed by a birth of sibling, 3 months later. As the ship was on its way to Victoria, Australia, both the birth and death were registered there, with the birth/death being put as "At Sea"
Cheers
KHP
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seaweed, the one currently at the fore is in 1859.
KHP, thanks for sharing your experience.
In this case the family were ENGLISH, the child was born apparently off the coast of AUSTRALIA, and the birth was registered in NEW ZEALAND. My statistical inclination was to record the birth as ENGLISH as the boat hadn't arrived in New Zealand, and the child's parents were ENGLISH citizens.
However I have just seen that the GEDCOM protocol has a NATIONALITY attribute which I had ignored until now being that most births occur and are registered to one place where the parents are citizens.
So in this case I am thinking the BIRTH is recorded as "At sea" supported with a SOURCE of the birth being registered in NZ, and I could add a NATIONALITY of English. WDYT?
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This from the GRO.....
From 1854 records of births, marriages and deaths at sea had, first, to be recorded in ships’ logs. When the ships next docked at a British port the information from the logs was then recorded by the Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen (RGSS). Copies of the RGSS registers were periodically sent to the General Register Office.
Minniehaha.
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And this from New Zealand........
Births at sea [1847]…
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZ18470901.2.8?query=registration%20of%20births%20at%20sea&start_date=01-01-1839&end_date=31-12-1874&snippet=true
Registrations [1848]…..
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NENZC18480304.2.13?query=registration%20of%20deaths%20at%20sea&start_date=01-01-1839&end_date=31-12-1874&snippet=true&type=ARTICLE
Births at sea [1873]…….
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/WI18731120.2.5?query=registration%20of%20births%20at%20sea&start_date=01-01-1839&end_date=31-12-1874&snippet=true&type=ARTICLE
Births at sea [1859]……..
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/OW18591015.2.10.6?query=registration%20of%20births%20at%20sea&start_date=01-01-1839&end_date=31-12-1874&snippet=true&type=ARTICLE
Minniehaha.
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https://sites.rootsweb.com/~nzbound/bdm.htm
"Records of births, marriages and deaths of British nationals at sea, in foreign countries or while serving in HM Forces abroad are preserved at the Register Office of their country of origin, but may also be recorded at the Office of National Statistics in the 'Overseas' section. "Reference: BMD Records information leaflet PRO UK. Births and death events were recorded in the ship's log; the information was copied to Board of Trade Registrar of Births and Deaths and at year end and in NZ. New Zealand required registration of events at sea on arrival. So it is possible to find the event recorded in NZ and the UK with slightly different data."
Minniehaha.
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Presuming the vessel involved was British flagged, Then there are some records online which may give you some information.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3196
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C408556
There is a link on the pages to the online records but try a keyword search first.
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Thanks Minniehaha and seaweed - a bit to digest there.
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Thanks Minniehaha and seaweed - a bit to digest there.
Mmmmm.... ;D
Minniehaha.
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So I am wondering about the designations or definitions of ....
BRITISH and COLONY
In one instance a birth at sea is to be registered in the Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen (RGSS) at the next British port according to the GRO. Is this specifically a port of Great Britain only? Or a port of the Dominion?
Then
In one NZ Paperspast legislation article it refers to 'born at sea or out of the colony, of parents whose ordinary place of abode is within the colony' (as early as 1848!). Does this mean only New Zealand? When do immigrants who originally came from GB become colonists? When they leave GB? When they arrive in NZ? Is colony different to Dominion which means GB, NZ and others?
Later in 1859 this wording was changed to "are about to take up their abode in the colony" which clears that up from thence in my mind as being NZ only and attributable to those having left their country with the intention of settling.