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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: brigidmac on Saturday 11 May 19 21:56 BST (UK)
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Is the difference in spelling a consistant difference
Indicating Scots or Irish origin ?
In Scotland
I found Dugald Paterson a plumber aged 24 in 1901
Living with Catherine Macintyre(Forsyth)
Living with her children
A descendant says he fathered 2 children with her but 1 died in infancy
Catherine was referred to as PaTTerson on her son s military papers
In 1929 emigration record to massachus
Plumber
Dougald PaTerson 49 m scot
father is James Paterson
Of 46 Hill Cl
& iron worker
PaTTerson George 19 S English father William PRESCOTT
English also 46 Hill Close
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I am a Patterson, and apart from that, I am also busy at the moment transcribing Scottish BMD records for FreeReg. In my ancestors and also in the records in general, I have found Paterson and Patterson used indiscriminately.
Someone once told me that one T was Irish and two Ts was Scottish, but I rather think it depended more on the person doing the writing :)
Bev
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Thanks Bev
I was told similar about Mac and Mc
But same registrar but differentbspellings for my father 1930 and his elder sister .
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You cannot expect consistency in spellings in the era before everyone was literate. It all depends on the preference of the clerk who wrote the record.
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While clerks get the blame for this, the Patterson's I know in the Glasgow area are of Irish origin! No doubt they were Scottish originally? but a spell across the sheugh transformed Scots names, the US ditto. Colquhoun for example!
Skoosh.
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It's a bit of an overlap, but my wife has Pattinsons in her tree, and their descendants were most particular about the spelling - the line came from Alston in east Cumberland. Occasionally they were recorded as Patterson or Paterson, presumably by recorders who wrote names they were familiar with. Few Victorian spellings are definitive, but most variants have become settled over time, and the owners get very attached to them.
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"Spelling is an adventure, not a science!"
Regards
Chas
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That's one of the things I actually love about genealogy, the differences in spellings & I have researched quite a few with many spellings, not so enjoyable when it comes to looking for BMDs & paying full price for each/every/any i.e. English/Irish whereas the Scottish ones are so much cheaper & downloadable.
Always have an open mind where spelling is concerned.
Like Andrew Tarr, I was helping a friend 'Pattison' but further back his tree the name was Paterson/Patterson & maybe even Pattinson.
Annie
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a spell across the sheugh transformed Scots names
Skoosh, you could have at least added how to pronounce it ;D
Annie
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Annie, back in the day before the magnificent coast road in Antrim was built, it was easier for folk in the glens to get across to Scotland than it was to get to their neighbours over the hill. Campbeltown was a big attraction during the herring boom & many stayed on. Big distillery toon especially during prohibition & a very distinctive accent tae!
There is a bit of a presumption that ordinary folk were unable to spell their names back then, they were as intelligent as they are now if not always literate!
Sheugh = shuch as in loch but perjink folks say shooch! ;D
Skoosh.
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There is a bit of a presumption that ordinary folk were unable to spell their names back then, they were as intelligent as they are now if not always literate!
Yes, people were intelligent, but that did not help with the spelling of names in records which were being written by someone else. My own surname has more spelling variants than I care to count and the Paterson/Patterson line in my tree has both spellings within one set of siblings even though the parents were literate and signed their own names on the marriage record.
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Black, in his surnames, gives more than a dozen spellings of Paterson, diminutive of Patrick!
Folk were quite capable of deciding what their own name was without resorting to some clerk & back in the day, spelling was not standardised anyhow. I have an auld Paterson neighbour who pronounces it pate-erson in any case! & Pate was commonly used for Patrick hereabouts!
Skoosh.
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Folk were quite capable of deciding what their own name was without resorting to some clerk & back in the day, spelling was not standardised anyhow. I have an auld Paterson neighbour who pronounces it pate-erson in any case! & Pate was commonly used for Patrick hereabouts!
Skoosh, you are good at talking about 'back in the day' without much detail about the day you refer to. I'm sure Victorian folk (for example) were intelligent as required by their circumstances, but to judge by the number that only signed with their 'mark' I don't believe many of them had strong views about how to spell their surnames. They knew how they sounded of course, but in many cases it was up to a cleric to choose how to write it. Even in rural communities what must have been a common surname fluctuated between variants: Haworth = Howarth or Howard, for example. The owners didn't need to know as a rule.
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Anent "Back in the day!" before Samuel Johnson's dictionary appeared in 1755, there was no standardised spelling of English. It was whatever some clerk fancied it was!
Scotland subsequently had a high literacy rate, despite half the population being Gaelic speakers and not literate in that language. Scots & Gaelic speakers had to learn English at school and switched between the two as circumstances required (as many still do!) familiarity between Gaelic & Scots was also very common. My own grandfather, an engineer, spoke Scots/English & understood his parents Gaelic. The fact some signed with an X, and I had an Orcadian g'grandfather who did just that, is no indication of general language skills which for ordinary folk were often better than today!
Skoosh.
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There are, of course, three levels of language competency - understanding, conveying and writing.
Understanding - can a person receive and understand simple instruction and greetings.
Conveying - can a person express their desires and hold a conversation.
Writing - can a person communicate solely by written means.
When, I, as a native English speaker attended a German Tech College, I had no problems with all the subjects except for German Language, which required written essays.
Regards
Chas
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Thanks for all your comments
The children of this man.were given surname of her late husband I wonder if they used the name Patterson later and if 1 or 2 T's
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Rough indication, Google," Patterson, Belfast" & "Patterson, Glasgow" not many hits for the latter! ;D
Skoosh.
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I.ll do the same for Australia and USA
Thanks
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I searched my aunts DNA results with Patterson +then Paterson
Both came up with 4th and distant cousins
The trees that were open had Living PATTERSONS in USA since 1870 unknown ancestors
A PATERSON in Canada with an Irish ancestor but no known details