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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: munchies on Sunday 12 May 19 02:19 BST (UK)
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During my sort through of all my family history stuff I found this yesterday. Belongs to my Grandad WH Soundie (his picture has just been restored on the photo restoration forum and he is wearing the bar.) This bar seems to have more on it than the one in the picture presumably because the 2 actual medals he is wearing have been added to the bar.
I think have worked out that left to right
British medal
1914 Star
? Is it Imperial service medal
Military medal
Victory medal ribbon is just attached to the pin so not on the bar
However they appear to be different colours than I can find online or is that just dirt and age
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The bar is shown upside-down as the MM would be shown to the left of the other medals as we look at it. (The MM and the 1914 star are correctly shown in the portrait you posted earlier).
The ribbons are well worn and faded but, in the correct order, appear to be :
Military Medal
1914 Star
Victory Medal
War Medal
The first and last ribbons are in good condition and easy to identify. The '14 Star is well worn but has the rosette, which was added in 1919. The really faded/washed one must therefore be the Victory Medal, though how it ended up looking like that is anybody's guess !!
This set concurs with the Medal Card held at the National Archive.
(BTW there is a note on the Medal Card referring to the issue of 1914 Star but I didn't want to pay to view it ( ;) so I'll leave that for you to read ! )
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I believe the rosette indicates that the recipient was Mentioned in Despatches. You can check that in the Gazette.
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The rosette, on that ribbon, indicates it is the 1914 Star rather than the 1915 Star.
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The note on the medal card simply refers to the fact that there are two cards, a temporary one with initial W and the other with initials WH. Both have the same detail.
His MM was gazetted on 12 July 1918 so the painting you have was done after that date and before he received the clasp which, with the rosette, was an extra distinction to the 1914 Star which indicated he had been under fire in the period 5 Aug and 22 Nov 1914. This was issued to him in 1921.
He went to France on 19 August 1914 with 130 Battery in 30 Brigade RFA. 130 Battery joined 40 Brigade RFA in May 1916, his MM record shows him still with 130 Battery.
MaxD
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Never cease to be amazed at the knowledge of Rootschatters! ;D
Skoosh.
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Was wondering whether it’s safe to try washing it with some gentle soap flakes :P
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Also did men actually receive their medals while they were out there in the thick of it or did they get them when they got home.
Mum always said that this painting was painted in France while he was out there but talking practicalities would it have survived trenches etc and the trip home. Or could it have been painted and sent home. He wasn’t married until 1929 so it would have gone to his mother if sent home I assume. Did they have their posh dress uniform with them whilst out there.
So if he received them out there then this painting was done between 1918 and 1919 because he was home and if he got them when he got home then after the war but before 1921 otherwise the clasp with rosette would be in the picture is that right.
His war diaries cover 3/11/1915 to 17/5/1917 I have 2 but mum said there were 4 originally so I think first and last are missing :'( so no mention of receiving medals
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Cold wash my laundry adviser says.
Medals were not issued until 1920 at the earliest although the ribbon for the 1914 Star could be worn from about January 1918. The 1914 Star clasp (for when the medal was worn) and the rose (for when only the ribbon was worn) had to be applied for and, as said, he didn't get this until September 1921.
Sep 21 would therefore seem to be the end date of the bracket and he has received his 1914 Star and his MM but not the claps and rose. Not beyond the bounds of possibility that the other two hadn't arrived yet!
Dare I say that the colours of the two ribbons in the painting are a bit off!
As to when/where, I'd prefer not to guess, it would be only a guess although the blue uniform would argue for at home.
Have you looked at the relevant war diaries for a flavour of his war (although his own diaries are obviously of interest).
MaxD
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Just a thought, but the 2nd ribbon in the bar looks more like that of a discoloured DCM ribbon than a VM, although that wouldn't be the correct order of wear either, the loose section of ribbon at the back of the ribbon does however look like that of a VM.
There seems to be a couple more Soundies listed in the Gazette for 1918 & 1922, any chance this could have been a brothers or relations bar if it is indeed a DCM ribbon?.
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I popped back to have another look at this, I was fairly confident that there was no victory medal ribbon on the bar, only the wee part loose under bar.
I was wrong in my last reply as this isn't a DCM ribbon, most likely his ISM ribbon as he was awarded the Imperial Service Medal in 1954.
The London Gazette, Publication - ISM awarded 2nd February 1954 for his Civil Service.
Supplement:40089 Page:714
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Good spot, Alistair.
I agree the ribbon next to the MM is the ISM, which the OP mentioned in the first post and which I overlooked :-[ , and the bit of loose ribbon is the VM.
As I understand it the order of wear should be : Military Medal, 1914 Star, War Medal, Victory Medal and, lastly, the Imperial Service Medal. The ribbon bar as shown seems to have had a bit of a hard life !
Maec