RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: Jerry Smith on Monday 13 May 19 09:12 BST (UK)
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Looking for help tracing my dads side of the family .my dad's name is amos Smith and he's married to darki Smith
My dad is one of 11 children,my grandfather name was Natty Smith.
My dad's family have lived in Hereford for many years and its a big family .they are a gypsy family.
Any info on my family will be grateful as I'm trying to track family tree.
Thanks Jerry Smith
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Hello & welcome
The first thing I have to say is that Rootschat has a policy of not naming any one still living
so you might find your dad's name being removed.
What you need are birth & marriage certificates.
You know your Grandfather was (assuming he's now deceased) Natty probably Nathaniel Smith so you
need his marriage cert. to find his father's name.
It's difficult to advise any further unless you tell us exactly what you have so far.
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat.
Have found an article in Kington Times 13 February 1959 where a Mr Natty Smith of the Caravan Site, Hoarwithy Road, Hereford was sold a caravan for £90. Unfortunately the man selling the caravan was buying it on hire purchase for £276, he got into difficulty paying the instalments and sold the caravan. He was unaware that he was not able to do so.
I presume this could be your grandfather (Natty Smith)?
JJ
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How do I get natty Smith marriage, birth certificate.
I don't know dob for him and don't know how to go about finding it.
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Do you know when and where Natty died as that record could give his birth date?
Do you know which of Natty's children was born first? Please only post details if this person had died.
Was Natty actually Nathaniel?
What was your grandmother's name?
Could you ask any family for more details?
Apologies for so many question but the more info we have the better we'll be able to help. :)
You can order certificates for GRO -
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/
JJ
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The is an A--- Smith & a D--- Smith in the Hereford Electoral rolls. 2003-2010
It look like Mrs Smith was 1940's from there (unless she was lying about her age)
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I think they may have married in 1960's, Hereford.
JJ
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I was also looking at xxx
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Hello
This looks like him
Death Hereford Nathaniel Smith born 12 May 1908 died June qtr 1991 Hereford
ref 29 315
Birth June qtr 1908 Hereford 6a 489.
His parents are Nathaniel and Charlotte born 1876 Forest of Dean and 1882 Martley Worc.
There are 5 possible marriages and a 1939 and 1911 record (which I'm not allowed to post for copyright reasons).
Elder brother Enos born Dec 1899 Weobley mother's maiden name Davies.?
Natty's suggests Smith
There is also a suggestion that the parents weren't married until June qtr 1916
Nathaniel Smith or Johns and Charlotte Smith at Hereford 6a 1138.
They appear on the 1939 index as Johns .
Charlotte does seem to be Smith on the 1881 census age 3 born Martley in Martley workhouse.
Can't see them on the 1901 which I could post.
Nathaniel Johns birth Dec 1876 Westbury on Severn 6a 259 does seem to match up,
Father is Nathaniel Johns ,mother Rhoda Smith on an Ancestry family tree.
Ciderdrinker
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1911 here? (as suggested above)
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7JB-SLC
1899 baptism (Aeneas) https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JQ39-BLY
1902 Susanna https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NT6D-VB8
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https://www.herefordtimes.com/news/15372675.resident-calls-for-tree-to-be-cut-down-after-tripping-over-its-roots/
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Thank you for your help,
Be good to trace my mums mothers side of family.
Her name was pricilae hanes "Smith,holland.
She was married to charles matchet"Charli"
They would have traveled Midlands, Hereford and lincs.
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Look if you need help, then you need to define some dates, not just general areas.
Please answer some of the queries already made.
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'pricilae hanes "Smith,holland'
What year was she born and with what surname?
What name does Darki also use - Dorothy or something else?
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https://www.herefordtimes.com/news/15372675.resident-calls-for-tree-to-be-cut-down-after-tripping-over-its-roots/
Yes thats my dads wife
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'pricilae hanes "Smith,holland'
What year was she born and with what surname?
What name does Darki also use - Dorothy or something else?
I don't know any dates, and darki means darki or darkus its a gypsy name
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Look if you need help, then you need to define some dates, not just general areas.
Please answer some of the queries already made.
I don't know any dates, just names.i know my Nan died in Kettering in 1990s at St Mary's hospital and buried in rothwell northants .she was using"Holland"at that point I think
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Yes that could be them,I have a photo from 1940s of them and a vardo and they was married a week before photo I was told.
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Hi,
Welcome to RootsChat.
Have found an article in Kington Times 13 February 1959 where a Mr Natty Smith of the Caravan Site, Hoarwithy Road, Hereford was sold a caravan for £90. Unfortunately the man selling the caravan was buying it on hire purchase for £276, he got into difficulty paying the instalments and sold the caravan. He was unaware that he was not able to do so.
I presume this could be your grandfather (Natty Smith)?
JJ
[/quote
Yes that my grandfather.i would like to find out the names of his children he had 11 and only one alive today,]
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I don't know any dates, just names.i know my Nan died in Kettering in 1990s at St Mary's hospital and buried in rothwell northants .she was using"Holland"at that point I think
That's all that we needed to get a little further on that line
The 1942 Marriage is between a Nathaniel and a Darkie. (both Smiths)
Are they the parents of Amos? (& Amos also went on to marry a Darkie? )
A possible death, (mother of the Darkie wed to Amos)?
Name: Ella Matchett-holland also registered as Spies Ella Matchett
Birth : 2 Mar 1919
Death : Dec 1998 Kettering Northamptonshire
Refs A53D / 6691A / 259
BIRTH Spies E Smith
Registration Date: Apr 1/4 1919
Registration district: Derby
MMN/ Vol/ Page: Booth / 7b / 827
Marriage Registration Date: Sep 1/4 1936
Loughborough
Spouse: Charles E Matchett
Volume / page : 7a/ 452
POSSIBLE (supposition only-no proof) birth
Births Mar 1914 MATCHETT Charles E Whyman Ashby Z 7a 189
Death:Apr 1/4 1983 Charles Ernest Matchett Nottingham / Vol 8 / Page 0598
Birth Date: 12 Dec 1913 (close enough?)
from the 1939 index, there is a Charles Matchett b 12/12/1914 in Basford.
I suspect with confusion over Spies Ella / pricilae his wife's record hasn't been opened.
I can see no likely birth record for the lady in the newspaper article though.
Is your mother still alive to ask when /where she and Amos wed, when (about) she was born and if she was ever known by a name other than Darki? (and what that name is)
and ALSO when (approx year) was Amos (your father) born?
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My dad"amos Smith is in his 80's old and very poorly so asking him dates etc is pointless,
I didn't know he was my father until last yr so I no nothing,darkus is his wife's name and that's her real name.
I will talk to my mum about this,but traveling folk don't like to talk about this kind of stuff so I'm finding it hard to get info.
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So Darkie/Darkus the wife of Amos is not your natural mother?
You really should talk with Amos (or your mother) and see what is suggested as names for his siblings, don't interrogate, just ask what he/she remembers.
Was he the eldest, somewhere in the middle or a tail-ender?
And you also NEED that marriage certificate between Amos & Darkie (even if Darkie is not your natural mother).
That Matchett - smith marriage certificate and the two birth certificates (for the bride & groom) are your next step(s) on that line
Pauline
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Is it possible that Darkie is really Dorcas?
There is a possible marriage in 1950's Amos Smith and Dorcas Davies. :-\
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The one mentioned at reply #7?
The OP needs to ask when the marriage was and send off for the appropriate cert.
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Oops....apologies....missed that. :-[
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So Darkie/Darkus the wife of Amos is not your natural mother?
You really should talk with Amos (or your mother) and see what is suggested as names for his siblings, don't interrogate, just ask what he/she remembers.
Was he the eldest, somewhere in the middle or a tail-ender?
And you also NEED that marriage certificate between Amos & Darkie (even if Darkie is not your natural mother).
That Matchett - smith marriage certificate and the two birth certificates (for the bride & groom) are your next step(s) on that line
Pauline
Darkus isn't my mother,my mum and amos was only together few months in 1970 in Hereford hop Field's,I was only told amos was my father last yr .
Hes the youngest of . 11 children and only one alive still.
Amos and darkus have 3 children and I'm also his son ,my mum is wendy "patrulia"matchet.
My dad is very poorly and remember s nothing and my mouther didn't know his family.
Darkus told me they have been married 60yrs and married when in there twenties.all Amos family are from Hereford .
I will be able to get the matchet side dates from my oldest brother.
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Is it possible that Darkie is really Dorcas?
There is a possible marriage in 1958 in Abergavenny; Amos Smith and Dorcas Davies. :-\
That could be her ,they lived on abdrgavenny Rd in a wagon and traveld around Herefordshir and Welsh borders
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The issue is that while Amos is a tail-ender, we've no way of picking out which Smith-Smith births prior to (the early 1930's) have a father called Natty/ Nathaniel.
Add to that the parents of the 1908-born Nathaniel appear to be living as Johns in the 1939 (see reply #8) it's far from straightforward.
The best candidate for Amos Smith's birth is 1934 Wolverhampton. You could try buying that one if the father is named as Natty . We can rule out 1932 MMN Finch as the cert is published online.
Go back to Nathaniel's 1991 death and see if there was a notice/report in the local newspaper, or find out where he is buried and go look at the headstone/find out who else he's buried with.
In the meantime, get that order in on your Maternal grandfather and grandmother.
Pauline
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Tagging on the end here.
Ella Spies Matchett is buried in Desborough Cemetery grave E352 having passed away in 1998.
I have a lot of graves of the cemetery so I will see if I can find it later although there are a lot missing.
Sandy
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Tagging on the end here.
Ella Spies Matchett is buried in Desborough Cemetery grave E352 having passed away in 1998.
I have a lot of graves of the cemetery so I will see if I can find it later although there are a lot missing.
Sandy
[/quote
Thank you,
I was told the grave as no headstone, I would like to get one for her as it should be done yrs ago!!!
Also could you check if Abraham Stanley is berried in same yard.he passed away in 1990s "eari"I think ,both was family.
Thanks Jerry
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Hi Jerry.
Apparently there used to be a small wooden cross with Brass Plate.
SPIES ELLA MATCHETT died 5th Dec. 1998 aged 79 years.
Abram was also buried there in 1990, Grave C534 but no stone sadly.
You could always ask the Kettering Cemetery Office if they could mark the Grave for you at least.
The number I use for the Office is 01536 525722
Sandy
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Hi Jerry.
Apparently there used to be a small wooden cross with Brass Plate.
SPIES ELLA MATCHETT died 5th Dec. 1998 aged 79 years.
Abram was also buried there in 1990, Grave C534 but no stone sadly.
You could always ask the Kettering Cemetery Office if they could mark the Grave for you at least.
The number I use for the Office is 01536 525722
Sandy
thank you for helping, Yes its sad how they haven't got Head stones,I will look into having two done for them, seems like family have forgotten them,I will never forget were I come from and memories I have of my nan,
Can head stone still go on after all this time?
Jerry
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Morning Jerry.
There are a few rules and regulations about relatives putting up headstones in the cemetery. Kettering have a form you can download although you will need to ask how to obtain it.
I hope you can achieve it.
Sandy
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Does not the grave owner have the decision on head stones?
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Yes, but with 'ealth and safety, there are strict rules about height etc.
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Please remember that it is against RootsChat rules to publish details of living folk.
Regards
Sarah
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Hello. Are you still looking for Natty Smith family??
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Hello Jerry
my name is Michael Davis if natty and charlotte are the ones you are looking for his farthers name was natty smith he married sarah Davis he was a bare knuckle fighter he had a fight and killed a man he then called himself natty davis he had a lot of brothers gildroy and reubin to name just 2 of them there farther was james smith his wife was eve stevens her mother was eve lock you can look them up lock family but nattys children also went by the name davis and smith if it is them reply to me
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Michael Davies, I'm certain this is the Nathaniel I'm looking for and it would be great to hear from you ,I no they went in smith and Davies and also John's,
Look forward to hearing from you ,
Jerry
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Hello. Are you still looking for Natty Smith family??
Yes ,can you help finding this family
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Hello Jerry
my name is Michael Davis if natty and charlotte are the ones you are looking for his farthers name was natty smith he married sarah Davis he was a bare knuckle fighter he had a fight and killed a man he then called himself natty davis he had a lot of brothers gildroy and reubin to name just 2 of them there farther was james smith his wife was eve stevens her mother was eve lock you can look them up lock family but nattys children also went by the name davis and smith if it is them reply to me
Hi yes this is them ,
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I pretty sure who you are looking for is someone to do with my partners family.