RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: callumneil_mcculloch on Monday 13 May 19 22:37 BST (UK)
-
I have been researching my great x 3 grandparent's William McCulloch (b.1827? d. 1900) and Agnes/Mary Holmes (b. 1835? in Ireland? - parents unknown).
William McCulloch's parent's or my great x 3 grandparent's were named as: Father - Robert McCulloch Mother - Margaret Savage.
William McCulloch and Agnes/Mary Holmes were married but she retained her maiden name. I have also been looking for information on their son named as: David Homes McCulloch (b. Ireland 1858
d. 1912 in Glasgow.
William McCulloch also had a second wife named as Rose Ann or Rossanna Fox. I do not know very much about her ancestry other than her parent's may be James/Peter Fox and Jane McKee/McKie.
I have Irish ancestry and the Northern Ireland or Nova Scotia area's are highlighted as places where my ancestors may have come from or emigrated to. Would like to chat to people who may be able to help me find my Irish McCulloch ancestors.
Kind Regards,
Callum McCulloch.
-
Possible death on Scotlandspeople, for Rose Ann McCulloch, nee Fox in Partick, Glasgow, 1891 aged 54. GROS ref 646/3 716.
Marriage for Rosanna Fox to Wm McCullough in 1874 in Partick, Glasgow. GROS 646/3 76.
-
Welcome to Rootschat ;)
It looks as though there may have been quite a few siblings for David going by the gap in ages if I have the correct family in 1881?...
"William McCulloch and Agnes/Mary Holmes were married but she retained her maiden name. I have also been looking for information on their son named as: David Homes McCulloch (b. Ireland 1858
d. 1912 in Glasgow."
What info. do you have on David & what info. are you still looking for...please add all info. you already have with dates/places to save duplication.
"William McCulloch also had a second wife named as Rose Ann or Rossanna Fox. I do not know very much about her ancestry other than her parent's may be James/Peter Fox and Jane McKee/McKie"
Marriage was 29 Apr 1874 which will name both sets of parents, fathers occupations with mothers maiden names as well as witnesses who may be related & it will state whether single/widowed.
1881
William McCulloch 35 yrs (c1846) b Ireland, Labourer in Ship Yard at 56 Centre Street, Partick
Wife Rose 45 yrs (c1836) b Ireland
Son John 9 yrs (c1872) b Ireland
It looks as though the ages were switched round in the census, probably in error?
There's no sign of David who'd be c 23 yrs old...was he married by then?
1891
William McCulloch 64 yrs (c1827) b Ireland, Yard Labourer at 88 George Street, Partick
Wife Rose 53 yrs (c1838) b Ireland
Son John 19 yrs (c1872) b Ireland, Paper Stainer
Can you please list what docs you have for William with age/occ etc. to save duplicating your efforts as his age seems to differ a lot.
Do you have his death which should name both wives if known to the informant?
Is this the death for William...age out on this?...
MCCULLOCH WILLIAM 81 (c1819)
1900
646/3 390 Partick
Annie
-
Is this David's marriage?
MCCULLOCH DAVID - YOUNG JESSIE 1877
646/2 179 Partick
If so, what info. is on the marriage & does he use his middle initial/name on children's births as I'm not picking him up with his middle initial/name?
Annie
-
His middle name is David Holmes McCulloch (b. 1858 location in Ireland unknown (no birth certificate - d. 1912). It is possible he had a younger brother with the same name who died when younger - d. 1851). i have all the certificates each person mentioned below in this forum but do not have birth certificates for his parent's especially his mother.
I am looking for birth certificates for both his father William McCulloch (b. 1827? (DOB is still uncertain)- d. 1900) and his mother Agnes/Mary Holmes (1835? - 1872). I would also be interested in finding out if anyone has proof of birth or death certificates for William's parent's. William's parent's were Margaret Savage and Robert McCulloch - I do not have anything for these individual's.
There is a problem with the details of who Rose Ann or Rossanna Fox's parent's are. One certificate states Peter and Mary Fox (nee Clark) and the other states James and Jane Fox (nee Mckee/McKie?).
David Holmes McCulloch's mother was named as Agnes/Mary Holmes, however; i have no idea who her parent's were. I need some proof to prove ancestry. It would help find possible relatives. I am trying to find a DNA match to help find family members.
I would be interested in talking to possible family member's on Ancestry or by e-mail, but do not want my personal details on this forum.
-
I am looking for birth certificates for both his father William McCulloch (b. 1827? (DOB is still uncertain)- d. 1900) and his mother Agnes/Mary Holmes (1835? - 1872)... I would also be interested in finding out if anyone has proof of birth or death certificates for William's parent's. William's parent's were Margaret Savage and Robert McCulloch ...
Civil registration of births, marriages and deaths started in Ireland in 1864. In Scotland in 1855
-
Personal detail aren't allowed on this forum so nothing to worry about there, anything personal such as email is exchanged via private messaging.
-
Yes, unfortunately I am aware of that. I was hoping that someone who matched me via DNA could at least pinpoint where they came from in Ireland so that I could research some churches that could hold some church records. I do know I have a link to Northern Ireland and that my ancestors religion may have belonged to the 1st Presbyterian Church??
-
I have been researching my great x 3 grandparent's William McCulloch (b.1827? d. 1900) and Agnes/Mary Holmes (b. 1835? in Ireland? - parents unknown).
Could you post the details of this marriage please. Do you have the certificate information?
-
I do not have a marriage certificate for Agnes/Mary Holmes AND William McCulloch (they were married but she retained her maiden name). No idea where they were married. This is why I haven't been able to find out more details of Agnes/Mary's parent's. Bit of a mystery.
I have (a few others as well) the marriage/death certificates for David Holmes McCulloch/Jessie Young and a death certificate for William McCulloch stated in this forum above.
I would definitely like to speak to people that are my McCulloch family members. There are still some McCulloch descendants related to me living in Scotland (for privacy reasons I will just put X). Some of these descendants who live in X may have the information I'm looking for. However, genealogy isn't easy, it takes someone who understands the subject that can help people find their ancestors. My DNA tests were rather disappointing. They did come up with some family members that gave me some useful information but I have never got past my paternal 4 x grandparents.
-
Tried to send a screenshot and picture...states it 's too big to attach it below...any ideas??
-
William McCulloch and Agnes/Mary Holmes were married but she retained her maiden name. I have also been looking for information on their son named as: David Homes McCulloch (b. Ireland 1858
d. 1912 in Glasgow...
...I do not have a marriage certificate for Agnes/Mary Holmes AND William McCulloch
How do you know that David Homes McCulloch (b. Ireland 1858
d. 1912 in Glasgow) is the son of William McCulloch and Agnes/Mary Holmes?
Is the information from David Homes McCulloch's birth certificate? What does Davids birth certificate state?
-
There is no birth certificate for David Holmes McCulloch born in Ireland in 1857 0r 1858??.
Death certificate states that for David Holmes McCulloch who died in 1912 aged 54, his father was William McCulloch and mother Agnes Holmes. However, on his marriage certificate to Jessie Young in 1877 it states that his parent's were William McCulloch and Mary McCulloch (nee Holmes)
-
There likely won't be a marriage certificate then, as the Civil registration of births, marriages and deaths started in Ireland in 1864 and in Scotland in 1855
-
I think I will have to go back to my DNA results. They were VERY disappointing. Left more questions than answers. Anyway, thanks for your time,
Cheers,
Callum.
-
Elwyn Soutter and Rosinish have both given some good information from records, posted earlier in the topic.
-
Yes I have most of the certificates they mentioned, it's always interesting chatting to other people to see if they have something you missed. The details do change a little bit on the certificates so it's a bit confusing when trying to find records on Genealogy sites.
William McCulloch had a second wife called Rosanna Fox. They had a son named John born in Ireland in 1871. They were married in 1874. He would be 46 and she would be 40. He died in 1900 at the age of 81.
-
"William McCulloch had a second wife called Rosanna Fox"
As you have no birth/baptism for William, no marriage to 'supposed' 1st wife Agnes/Mary then the 2nd marriage is a must as it's William giving 1st hand info...unlike his death cert. which is info. from someone other than himself i.e. may not match the info. given by William which should state whether he was widowed/single & witnesses may help too but it will/should also state whether his parents are alive/deceased?
Annie
-
What is the exact info. on the death cert. for William regarding wives please?
Annie
-
1st Wife: Agnes Holmes
2nd Wife: Rose Ann Fox or Anderson
-
There likely won't be a marriage certificate then, as the Civil registration of births, marriages and deaths started in Ireland in 1864 and in Scotland in 1855
Not quite right. In Ireland non RC marriages were recorded in the statutory registers from 1845. I have searched for a Holmes-McCullough marriage in Ireland 1845 - 1858 but cannot find one. (Nearest was a Mary Holmes – John McCullaugh marriage in Ballymena on 16.3.1865).
Regarding the discrepancies over the women’s names on the marriage and death certificates, mistakes on death certificates are very common. Informants didn’t always have the correct information, especially for items like the deceased’s parents. Given a choice between a marriage certificate and a death certificate the marriage certificate is usually more accurate since the information has come from someone who ought to know their mother’s name.
I also looked for a birth for John McCulloch born c 1872 Ireland with mmn Fox but did not find one.
From her death information, it looks as though Rose Ann Fox was married previously and her maiden name was Anderson. Have you searched for that marriage?
You mention that your ancestors may have been members of the 1st Presbyterian church. Lots of towns in Ireland have more than 1 Presbyterian church so there's dozens of 1st Presbyterians. Any idea which town they may have lived in?
-
William McCulloch had a second wife called Rosanna Fox. They had a son named John born in Ireland in 1871. They were married in 1874. He would be 46 and she would be 40. He died in 1900 at the age of 81.
If son John was born in 1871 and parents didn't marry until 1874 then it's likely he was registered under mother's present name. Have you tried looking under Fox?
Actually, if you don't have John's birth certificate yet then how do you know that Rosanna and William are his parents? If he was a son of Rosanna's from a previous relationship and was quite young when Rosanna and William married then he might have been raised as their child and thought they were both his parents.
-
From her death information, it looks as though Rose Ann Fox was married previously and her maiden name was Anderson.
The only marriage pre 1877 in Ireland for a Rosanna Anderson (age 24, father John Anderson) comes up with one in 1866 Belfast but groom is Joseph McCullough (age 27, son of Humphrey).
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGDW-WCB
However, she could be Rose, Rose Ann, Rosa Ann, etc. so lots of other possible matches.
-
Another thought. Son John supposed to be born in Ireland so finding his birth registration would give an exact location in Ireland. Have you traced him in ALL possible Scottish census records to see if a more exact place than 'Ireland' is listed? (1911 quite often gives a place)
-
John McCullough born 17 Aug.1871 Ballymacanallen, parents William McCullough (labourer) & Rose Ann formerly Anderson (Lurgan district, Waringstown sub-district)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03278/2201304.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/down/iveagh-lower-upper-half/tullylish/ballymacanallen/ (civil parish- Tullylish)
-
Valuation Revision Books for Ballymacanallen show a Hugh McCullough (house & garden) & Thomas McCullagh (house, offices, garden). In 1878 Hugh's holding is changed to John Montgomery and Thomas' to Archd. P_k (looks like Pink? Park?). Both are listed as Ballymacanallen townland Town of Gilford Portadown Road.
Might be worth looking for McCulloughs (various spellings) in same area of Scotland as William.
-
I have a death certificate for John McCulloch plus I have spoken to his granddaughter. Haven't been able to source a birth certificate for this individual.
Rosanna or Rose Ann Fox (Fox maiden name) was married to a Robert Anderson but I haven't been able to find a marriage certificate for this. She married William McCulloch after Robert McCulloch.
-
I have a death certificate for John McCulloch plus I have spoken to his granddaughter. Haven't been able to source a birth certificate for this individual.
I just posted birth details in reply #24
-
That's very promising with regards to the attached records. I will send that to his granddaughter and see if it's correct.
There is a record for a David McCullough born to Agnes Holmes and William in 1851 in Clare, Northern Ireland so it's not too far away from Ballycanallen Townland. I wonder if that was a Younger brother of David Holmes McCulloch that died when young.
I would love to find out if there is a DNA match to individuals in the area with similar names to myself. might confirm some of the records.
-
That's very promising with regards to the attached records. I will send that to his granddaughter and see if it's correct.
There is a record for a David McCullough born to Agnes Holmes and William in 1851 in Clare, Northern Ireland so it's not too far away from Ballycanallen Townland. I wonder if that was a Younger brother of David Holmes McCulloch that died when young.
I would love to find out if there is a DNA match to individuals in the area with similar names to myself. might confirm some of the records.
You keep adding more details AFTER information has been found. It's much easier for us to help if you tell us ALL details you have BEFORE we start searching.
Considering the lack of an Irish location you apparently started with I'm not sure how you think John's grand-daughter will know that it the correct birth record for John but I can't see any doubt.
-
I had to go back to my records. The name of the people in the attached certificate is spot on. Unfortunately, I checked my e-mails from my aunt and she mentioned the date of birth of John is 25 06 1871 in Ireland. I think I will have to leave it there and see if I receive a reply from his granddaughter. I am now beginning to doubt some of the records I have belong to the same individual. I will have a look at some earlier census records and see if something turns up. It's a bit frustrating when some of the records have different dates for the same individual.
Thanks for the on-going support, I do appreciate it. I will let you know when I receive a reply to my e-mail. Hopefully, then I can get round to finding the right records.
-
Rosanna or Rose Ann Fox (Fox maiden name) was married to a Robert Anderson
She married William McCulloch after Robert McCulloch.
Can you help others trying to help you by giving sources to your info. please?
How do you know Rosanna married the 2 brothers?...Sorry, my assumption there as they may not have been brothers i.e. a source would be good?
Annie
Edit Above re brothers
-
Many apologies...I'm using my mobile...predictive text...it should read Robert Anderson...no brothers... having a tough day sorting things out at work on my day off.
Sorry for the typo.
Callum.
-
As mentioned earlier, the marriage of William & Rosanna will give you both sets of parents, info. given by themselves rather than from anyone else on a death cert.
Annie
-
(http://)
-
Struggling to send you Ladies the certificates I have. I am not very computer savvy to be honest. I have tried resizing files etc and tried to post pictures and screenshots as attachments. File size is too large. Any ideas??
-
Sorry I can't help re images as I've very recently moved over to Windows 10 with reluctance (still finding my way round) having been using XP (Home Comp) since it's arrival & Vista (Laptop) since it's arrival & have always used Office Publisher for cropping/resizing which I don't have on my Windows 10 (Laptop).
It may be worth putting a request for help on the Technical Board?
Annie
-
Don't think your allowed to post a full certificate.
Here is a how to thread on posting images
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=130922.0
Don't resize your original, resize a copy.
It may also be necessary to rename the image.
Personally I use Paint to resize etc.
-
I agree with Sinann, cropping preferably, it keeps the format etc. exactly how it was printed as resizing can cause slight problems & not as clear.
"William McCulloch and Agnes/Mary Holmes were married but she retained her maiden name"
How very unusual...how do you know this or what makes you believe this?
"William McCulloch also had a second wife named as Rose Ann or Rossanna Fox. I do not know very much about her ancestry other than her parent's may be James/Peter Fox and Jane McKee/McKie"
"There is a problem with the details of who Rose Ann or Rossanna Fox's parent's are. One certificate states Peter and Mary Fox (nee Clark) and the other states James and Jane Fox (nee Mckee/McKie?)"
Can you tell us which certs. the info. came from & which states what please?
"Rosanna or Rose Ann Fox (Fox maiden name) was married to a Robert Anderson"
Can you give us the source of this info. please?
Are there any other docs apart from his death cert. which David Holmes McCulloch appears on with his middle name?
Annie
-
I've been reading a post you submitted online re your Mary/Agnes Holmes ...
"Agnes Holmes was born in Ireland around 1835 and died in 1872"
Can you tell us where Agnes died please & have you established this is the correct person as opposed to Mary?...
Looking at the info. from son David's marriage, he himself gives his mother's name as Mary i.e. more likely than the name Agnes which was stated by someone else on his death cert?
Annie