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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Kilkenny => Topic started by: cattao on Wednesday 15 May 19 08:31 BST (UK)
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Brothers arrived in Australia per Java on 18 November 1833, know nothing else about them at the moment any help around on where to go Kilkenny end.
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What was their surname? Was it Loughlin?
Brothers arrived in Australia per Java on 18 November 1833, know nothing else about them at the moment any help around on where to go Kilkenny end.
JM
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Yes it was Loughlin
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:D :D :D
The following info may help the experts on the Kilkenny board :)
33-3051 (convict indent ref number)
Thomas LOUGHLIN arrived per Java November 1833, aged 26 yrs, no education, a farm servant,
Roman Catholic, married, 1 male child, 1 female child,. Native place County Kilkenny
Tired 11 March 1833 at Kilkenny (City) for Attacking a house
Sentenced to Life
No previous convictions.
33-3052
Patrick LOUGHLIN, brother to Thomas on same voyage
Patrick aged 22 years, no education, Roman Catholic, Farm servant, Single, native place Kilkenny, Same offence, trial, sentence as Thomas, and no previous convictions for Patrick either.
JM
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Many thanks for that info, have something to work on.
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Many thanks for that info, have something to work on.
They were convicted on 11 March 1833 so if you have access to the Irish Newspaper Archives, which are online through some libraries, you might find their conviction at the Kilkenny Assizes.
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Leinster Express Sat March 16 1833.
I'll write it out later, too difficult on iPad, I lose the post flicking back and forth.
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https://www.townlands.ie/kilkenny/kilkenny/st-johns/kilkenny-rural/cellarstown-lower/
http://www.findingaids.nationalarchives.ie/index.php?simpleSearchSbm=true&searchDescTxt=anne+loughlan&simpleSearchSbm=Search#searchfocus
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Thomas Loughlin, Patrick Loughlin and Michael Keating were indicted under the Whiteboy Act for attacking the dwelling house of James Butler of Garretcreen on the 4th November last. There was another count for burglary which the Crown declined to prosecuting. - Guilty.
The correct spelling appears to be Garrincreen which is a townland on the East edge of Kilkenny today but back in 1833 would have been in the countryside.
Tried to find something between 4th Nov 1832 and the trial but no luck so far.
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Thanks folks for the info once again. Any chance of finding parents names? Can't get the newspapers at this time. I am vision impaired and find it difficult to see too much, always need an offsider with me.
Will keep plodding along.
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Thomas Loughlin, Patrick Loughlin and Michael Keating were indicted under the Whiteboy Act for attacking the dwelling house of James Butler of Garretcreen on the 4th November last. There was another count for burglary which the Crown declined to prosecuting. - Guilty.
The correct spelling appears to be Garrincreen which is a townland on the East edge of Kilkenny today but back in 1833 would have been in the countryside.
Tried to find something between 4th Nov 1832 and the trial but no luck so far.
What website or resource did you use to access this newspaper article please Sinann?
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Found an article in the Evening Mail 18 March 1833
https://search.findmypast.com.au/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0001316%2f18330318%2f003
do you think it might be the right fellows?
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Thomas Loughlin, Patrick Loughlin and Michael Keating were indicted under the Whiteboy Act for attacking the dwelling house of James Butler of Garretcreen on the 4th November last. There was another count for burglary which the Crown declined to prosecuting. - Guilty.
The correct spelling appears to be Garrincreen which is a townland on the East edge of Kilkenny today but back in 1833 would have been in the countryside.
Tried to find something between 4th Nov 1832 and the trial but no luck so far.
What website or resource did you use to access this newspaper article please Sinann?
Irish Newspapers Archives
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Thomas Loughlin, Patrick Loughlin and Michael Keating were indicted under the Whiteboy Act for attacking the dwelling house of James Butler of Garretcreen on the 4th November last. There was another count for burglary which the Crown declined to prosecuting. - Guilty.
The correct spelling appears to be Garrincreen which is a townland on the East edge of Kilkenny today but back in 1833 would have been in the countryside.
Tried to find something between 4th Nov 1832 and the trial but no luck so far.
What website or resource did you use to access this newspaper article please Sinann?
Irish Newspapers Archives
Thank you Sinann
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Were they RC
Cellarstown is in the parish of St. Johns
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0991
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Found an article in the Evening Mail 18 March 1833
https://search.findmypast.com.au/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0001316%2f18330318%2f003
do you think it might be the right fellows?
No one can see it unless they have a subscription to Find My Past
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Found an article in the Evening Mail 18 March 1833
https://search.findmypast.com.au/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0001316%2f18330318%2f003
do you think it might be the right fellows?
No one can see it unless they have a subscription to Find My Past
Yes they are the brothers you seek.
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Found an article in the Evening Mail 18 March 1833
https://search.findmypast.com.au/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0001316%2f18330318%2f003
do you think it might be the right fellows?
No one can see it unless they have a subscription to Find My Past
Yes they are the brothers you seek
Is it the same as the other one or is there anything new?
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Were they RC
Cellarstown is in the parish of St. Johns
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0991
Yes, they were Roman Catholic.
:D :D :D
The following info may help the experts on the Kilkenny board :)
33-3051 (convict indent ref number)
Thomas LOUGHLIN arrived per Java November 1833, aged 26 yrs, no education, a farm servant,
Roman Catholic, married, 1 male child, 1 female child,. Native place County Kilkenny
Tired 11 March 1833 at Kilkenny (City) for Attacking a house
Sentenced to Life
No previous convictions.
33-3052
Patrick LOUGHLIN, brother to Thomas on same voyage
Patrick aged 22 years, no education, Roman Catholic, Farm servant, Single, native place Kilkenny, Same offence, trial, sentence as Thomas, and no previous convictions for Patrick either.
JM
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Found an article in the Evening Mail 18 March 1833
https://search.findmypast.com.au/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0001316%2f18330318%2f003
do you think it might be the right fellows?
No one can see it unless they have a subscription to Find My Past
Yes they are the brothers you seek
Is it the same as the other one or is there anything new?
"Patrick Loughlin, Thomas Loughlin and Michael Keating, for a burglary, with intent to rob the house of John Butler, at Garret Green, in the liberties of Kilkenny, on the 4th of November. The robbery was not effected, and personal violence was prevented in consequence of the interference of “the Captain”, as the foremost assailant was called by 12 or 14 fellows who effected the outrage, though it appeared the object of their assault and forcible entrance was to shoot Butler, whom they put on his knees for the purpose. - Found Guilty."
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Thomas LOUGHLIN arrived per Java November 1833, aged 26 yrs, no education, a farm servant,
Roman Catholic, married, 1 male child, 1 female child,. Native place County Kilkenny
Tired 11 March 1833 at Kilkenny (City) for Attacking a house
Sentenced to Life
No previous convictions.
Are the children's name known? Finding their baptisms would be a start?
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The convict indent does NOT name the wife or children of Thomas LOUGHLIN.
JM
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I can see that but perhaps cattao knows.
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http://www.findingaids.nationalarchives.ie/index.php?simpleSearchSbm=true&searchDescTxt=anne+loughlan&simpleSearchSbm=Search#searchfocus
She is named as Anne in Dathai's link.
Debra :)
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possible marriage Feb 2nd 1830 Thos Loughlin? to Anne Healy. The priest has written one name over the other so hard to make out
Right hand page
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635361#page/165/mode/1up
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Nice one dathai, I had started on the left pages, hadn't got to the right yet.
So the children would have been born in the gap in the register.
Maybe on a passenger list.
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Same one.
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The convict indent does NOT name the wife or children of Thomas LOUGHLIN.
JM
I can see that but perhaps cattao knows.
Nice one dathai, I had started on the left pages, hadn't got to the right yet.
So the children would have been born in the gap in the register.
Maybe on a passenger list.
Who are you expecting to be on a passenger list? and Where are you expecting the passenger/s to be sailing from and to? When (year or decade etc) are you expecting them to depart?
JM
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Here is the link to the NSW Archives Website.
https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/
At this website there are various options for searching through their indexes. If you use the keyword search and simply enter LOUGHLIN you will find several options for passenger lists. Some of those passenger lists are fully digitised and freely available at that website. Some are also available via Ancestry, Find My Past and similar commercial websites via partnership arrangements with NSW Archives. BUT, the Colonial Office in London in the 1830s was not encouraging Convicted persons to apply for their family to be sent to NSW at the expense of the Colonial Office. I think you will find that even the 1837-8 Select Committee chaired by Molesworth did not support (the funding of) family of convicted persons to be sent to the colonies.
I have not located any likely incoming family for Thomas LOUGHLIN. https://www.records.nsw.gov.au/keyname
JM
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Hopefully this is the shrunken link to the Molesworth report
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nt1/
JM
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The convict indent does NOT name the wife or children of Thomas LOUGHLIN.
JM
I can see that but perhaps cattao knows.
Nice one dathai, I had started on the left pages, hadn't got to the right yet.
So the children would have been born in the gap in the register.
Maybe on a passenger list.
Who are you expecting to be on a passenger list? and Where are you expecting the passenger/s to be sailing from and to? When (year or decade etc) are you expecting them to depart?
JM
Thomas' wife Anne and children in/about 1836, if she was indeed given passage as requested to join her husband.
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Thanks everyone for your assistance so far, I have to put it aside for a short while until I get more info from my friend, just not sure where they want me to go so I will get back shortly.
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I can see that Ancestry has a database based on a CD prepared by the Central Coast FHS, Gosford. I had already checked my CD and could not find any possible. But I can see that Ancestry has the following per a ship from Cork in 1837.
On the ship Margaret, from Cork to Sydney. 1837
Elizabeth McLOUGHLIN, wife of the Convict James MCLOUGHLIN, on ‘the last ship from Cork’ (JM notes : not sure what ‘last ship’ is indicating … the one immediately prior to Margaret/ the last convict ship ever sent from Cork to Sydney/ no idea)…
Ann McLOUGHLIN, aged 7 years, daughter of Elizabeth
Andrew McLOUGHLIN, aged 3 years, son of Elizabeth
Eliza McLOUGHLIN, aged 15 years, daughter of Elizabeth
Margaret McLOUGHLIN, aged 5 years, daughter of Elizabeth
Ancestry ... from part of their write up about an index they have uploaded based on a CD compiled by volunteers (including me).
About New South Wales, Australia, Wives & Children of Irish Convicts, 1825-1840
This index contains lists of wives and children of convicts transported to New South Wales who, at their husband's or father’s request, were brought to New South Wales at the government's expense to join their spouse or parent. The index also includes female convicts whose children were transported with them. This index was compiled from musters and other New South Wales records.
Because the names were extracted from various records, this index is not necessarily a complete list of convicts’ wives and children who came to New South Wales. The records also include some free settlers who took passage on the ships bringing the convicts.
The index provides the following details:
• name of convict, spouse or child
• ship name
• ship departure year
• remarks (these can include place information or even birth dates)
The index includes names of some individuals who refused the request to be transported to New South Wales. For those records, the ship's name and departure year is listed for the ship they would have travelled in. Also, wives and husbands do not always share or provide the same surname.
Very few wives and children of male convicts came to NSW in the 1830s. Assisted Immigration provided much of the increase in population to NSW instead.
https://www.jenwilletts.com/convict_ship_margaret_1837.htm
http://members.pcug.org.au/~ppmay/cgi-bin/irish/irish.cgi
I cannot find Ann/e Loughlin on that Ancestry Index.
Thomas' wife Anne and children in/about 1836, if she was indeed given passage as requested to join her husband.
JM
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Thanks for the last lot.
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also site
http://www.coraweb.com.au