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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: kimsmale on Wednesday 15 May 19 16:52 BST (UK)
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Hello I am researching the Smale's that came from England. Alfred who cme over through Catholic Immigration in 1901 my great uncle, and my grandfather Henry Smale who came over in 1911. They settled in Stratford Ontario.
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Greetings, and a warm welcome to Rootschat.
What information are you looking for? If you are looking for the origins of Alfred and Henry in England, could you tell us roughly when they were born - if you have their parents' names and whereabouts they lived that would be very useful.
(Rootschatters will help in any way we can, but we would need a little detail and would not want to duplicate information which you have already found).
Philip
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Welcome from me too.
Presumably your Henry Smale is the one who (as a bachelor aged "30") married Santina Margaret Brown on 8 September 1914 - they are settled in Stratford in 1921.
His parents according to the marriage record were Henry J Smale and Anne Elizabeth Wilson.
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Slightly different details given on his 1935 death certificate (not uncommon):
Birth: 23 April 1877, London, England
Father: Joseph Henry Smale of London, England
Mother: Elizabeth Wilson of London, England.
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A possibility for his brother - does this fit later records as to his age?
Alfred Smale, mother's maiden name Wilson, Dec qtr 1885 Strand 1b 683.
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There's a family which may be of interest, though details are not perfectly matched.
Harriet Smale and various children of hers spent time in the Strand and Edmonton workhouses in 1888, and she and the youngest child Alfred spent time in the Islington workhouse in 1890.
Children (from workhouse records):
Harriet b 1876-7 - born 3 Nov 1876 and baptised as Harriet Emily Smale, 14 Jan 1877
Henry b 1878-9
Elizabeth b 1879-80 - Elizabeth Smale, mmn Wilson, Mar qtr 1881 St Giles
Ann b 1883-4 - Ann Smale, mmn Wilson, Sep qtr 1883 St Giles
Alfred b 1885-6 - Alfred Smale, mmn Wilson, Dec qtr 1885 Strand
Harriet snr may be the Harriet Wilson who married Henry Smale, Mar qtr 1876 Bethnal Green.
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The 1881 census shows the family as follows:
14 New Compton St, St Giles, Middlesex
Henry Smale Head Mar 39 Coffee tavern keeper born Middlesex St Giles
Harriet do Wife Mar 25 Middlesex St Pancras
Harriet do Daur 4 Middlesex St Giles
Henry do Son 2 Middlesex St Giles
Elizabeth do Daur 3mo Middlesex St Giles
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Henry Smale senior is a possible match for a man of his name and age with a lengthy criminal record; at one of his trials at Clerkenwell in 1894 the 53-yr-old was found guilty of larceny, with previous convictions between 1853 and 1889 cited to the court, and sentenced to 12 months' hard labour.
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Having now found an online tree, I suspect everything found on here was already known.
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Hiya Kim - Smales is an old Lancashire name ie
Marriage: 1 May 1604 St Luke (formerly St Wilfrid), Farnworth (Widnes), Lancashire, England
Willmus Robinson - par. de Tarvin
Elizabetha Smale - de Widnes
Source: Private Transcription
Widnes is 5 miles from Liverpool Airport
this record is 40 years before the English Civil War
On 14 June 1645, parliament’s New Model Army, under the command of Sir Thomas Fairfax, Oliver Cromwell and Philip Skippon, utterly defeated Charles I’s main field army at the battle of Naseby. As every history of the Civil War attests, it was a decisive engagement: one which resulted in the destruction of the king’s veteran infantry force, the flight of his cavalry and the capture of his baggage-train, together with all of his personal correspondence. What is too often forgotten is that the battle of Naseby also resulted in perhaps the single worst atrocity of the Civil War in England, for, as the victorious Parliamentarian soldiers pursued their beaten enemies from the field, they fell upon the king’s female camp-followers, who, having seen that the day was lost, had set off in headlong flight towards the royalist garrison at Leicester. According to a later account, the parliamentarian troopers caught up with the terrified fugitives ‘in the south part of Farndon-field, within the gate place in the road between Naseby and Farndon’. Here a dreadful slaughter ensued, as the soldiers set about the Royalist women with their swords, killing at least a hundred of them, and savagely mutilating many more. In the aftermath of the battle, parliamentarian pamphleteers in London made no apology for what their soldiers had done, but rather triumphed in their murderous actions: some claiming that the killed and injured women had been ‘whores’, others that they had been Irish women, ‘wives of the bloody rebells in Ireland’, who had – according to earlier, exaggerated, accounts – slain thousands of Protestant men and women during the Irish Rebellion of 1641.
RE the slaughter of Royalist Women - 6 Smale children were left orphaned as Cromwell killed their mother ...
the surname Smale is Norwegian according to Wikitionary - so presumably Viking origin
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Having now found an online tree, I suspect everything found on here was already known.
And we all know how reliable(?) some online trees are! ;D ;D
I think we need a response from kimsmale to clarify what is needed.
Hello I am researching the Smale's that came from England. Alfred who came over through Catholic Immigration in 1901 my great uncle, and my grandfather Henry Smale who came over in 1911. They settled in Stratford Ontario.
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What I meant was that the well-researched online tree I found looks likely to belong to kimsmale, and if so kimsmale already knows everything which I posted upthread.
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Hello I do have their births in England and Henry's marriage to Santina. What I don't have is what happened to Alfred ater he came to Canada in 1901. The next time I find him presumbly is in 1915 with his attestation papers. The only issue is that His name says Alfred Patrck Vincent Smale and his baptisim record that I found only says Alfred. When he came to Canada, could whoever he was placed with added the names or maybe the church rebaptise him. I am trying to verify that I have the right papers for Alfred
Thanks
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When Alfred Patrick Vincent Smale married Catherine Mary Franciss in Ottawa in 1923, he named his parents as John Smale and Elizabeth Wilson, of London, England. Not a perfect match for the known details, but the “Wilson”, together with the relative rarity of the Smale name, would incline me to think that this was your Alfred.
At the time of his marriage on 24 May 1923 he was a 35 yr old bachelor working as an orderly at St Luke’s Hospital, Ottawa.
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The next time I find him presumbly is in 1915 with his attestation papers. The only issue is that His name says Alfred Patrck Vincent Smale and his baptisim record that I found only says Alfred. When he came to Canada, could whoever he was placed with added the names or maybe the church rebaptise him. I am trying to verify that I have the right papers for Alfred
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Whom did attestation papers name next-of-kin?
Patrick or Vincent may have been a Confirmation name. Which name(s) are on his birth registration?
Was he in a children's home/orphanage or an industrial or training or residential school before or after emigration? I've seen sacramental registers of a Catholic boy's home in England from this era. Most of the boys were conditionally baptised a few days before their Confirmation and First Communion. As their parents were either dead or absent, there was nobody to ask if the boys had been baptised as infants.
If Alfred had been separated from his family since he was young, he may have been unsure whether he had a middle name or else he invented one. It was rare but not unknown for a priest to add a middle name.
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Alfed has listed his brother Henry in Collingwood Ontario as his next of kin. What I can tell from a friend looking info up for me at national archives Alfred went to a farm in Quebec but I have not been able to prove through census. I was wondering if maybe he was baptised when he arrived here in Canada and that whoever met him here gave him another name.
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What I can tell from a friend looking info up for me at national archives Alfred went to a farm in Quebec but I have not been able to prove through census. I was wondering if maybe he was baptised when he arrived here in Canada and that whoever met him here gave him another name.
Alfred's Confirmation would have taken place sometime between age 9 and mid teens. He would have chosen a saint's name as his Confirmation name, probably Vincent, the 3rd name. If the Confirmation ceremony happened in Canada or in a residential institution in England where there was no parent or other adult present to give information about Alfred's baptism, he may have had a 2nd, conditional baptism. Baptising priest might have added Patrick as Alfred wasn't a saint's name. If the priest was Irish he may have considered the name Alfred to be too English. Perhaps Alfred just liked the name Patrick.
Do you know the name of the organisation which arranged his emigration?
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When Alfred Patrick Vincent Smale married Catherine Mary Franciss in Ottawa in 1923,
he named his parents as John Smale and Elizabeth Wilson, of London, England.
Not a perfect match for the known details, but the “Wilson”, together with the relative rarity of the Smale name, would incline me to think that this was your Alfred.
At the time of his marriage on 24 May 1923 he was a 35 yr old bachelor working as an orderly at St Luke’s Hospital, Ottawa.
Is this the same Alfred & Catherine/Kathleen SMALE on Electoral Register?
Alfred Smale
Occupation: Labourer
Year: 1940
Location: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Mrs Alfred Smale
90 Falstaff Street
Alfred Smale
Occupation: MacHinist
Year: 1945
Location: Perth, Ontario, Canada
City of Stratford
Mrs Alfred Smale
139 Grange Street
Alfred Smale
Occupation: Helper
Year: 1949
Location: Perth, Ontario, Canada
City of Stratford
Mrs Catherine Smale
139 Grange Street
Alfred Smale Retired
Year: 1957
Location: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Mrs Kathleen Smale
28 Falstaff Street
Alfred Smale - Retired
Year: 1968
Location: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Electoral District of Perth City of Stratford
Mrs Kathleen Smale
28 Flastaff Street
Alfred Smale - retired
Year: 1972
Location: Perth; Wilmot, Ontario, Canada
Cawston Street, Apt 61 103
Mrs Kathleen Smale
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Thanks to all who have helped me in my quest. I have hopefully found Alfred when he came to Canada through Catholic Immigration Society. From what I can tell he was sent to Quebec for a time, then lived in Ottawa, then to Stratford.. All I have to find now is his death record
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Thanks to all who have helped me in my quest
I have hopefully found Alfred when he came to Canada through Catholic Immigration Society.
From what I can tell he was sent to Quebec for a time, then lived in Ottawa, then to Stratford..
All I have to find now is his death record
Apologies if it’s already been said and I’ve not seen it
what year was Alfred Smale born?
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I have his birth date as November 18,1886 in Strand London England but his bapitism says March 15,1886
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I have his birth date as November 18,1886 in Strand London England but his bapitism says March 15,1886
Is this the same Alfred?
Alfred SMALE born 18 Nov 1885
Baptism 06 Dec 1885 St Clement Danes Middlesex
Father Henry, occ porter Mother Harriett
There’s this entry Canada, WWI CEF Attestation Papers, 1914-1918 but a different birth date and a middle name :-\
Alfred Patrick SMALE occ Shoemaker, born 15 Mar 1885 Kentish Town, London ,
Religion RC
Relative: Harry Smale address Collingwood Ont. Canada
Relationship: Brother
Regiment Number: 40256