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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: ms_canuck on Saturday 18 May 19 22:01 BST (UK)
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I was researching a relative (1st c/1x removed), Arthur Martin - born in St Luke, Middlesex, England c. 1870 to John Martin & Susannah Moore (both also born in either St Luke or Shoreditch).
In the 1871 census, I thought I had found Arthur - age 1 - but the mother's name was now Susan. However, the intriguing part, is that there is an older brother listed - John Martin, age 4, born c. 1867 in Auckland, New Zealand! All the other census documents afterwards do not name John - which usually means he has passed, but they do have Arthur and his sister Alice - but the mother's name is always Susannah. Ancestry tried to link me to a John James Martin, but it didn't seem right and in the end I simply removed John Martin from my tree.
I'm not specifically asking for a look up (because this doesn't really affect my lineage), but if anyone was interested and could find out how this child came to be born in New Zealand, I'd be fascinated to know the answer! I did do some brief searching on Ancestry, but nothing concrete really came up.
Thanks
Ms_C
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There was a John James Martin born 1867 in New Zealand, presumably the one Ancestry offered you. Parents were Susanna and John Richard, which seems to fit?
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1881 piece 1381 Folio 52 Page 39
Birkbeck Rd Camden Villa Tottenham
James Moore 69 furniture dealer employing two men London
Jemima Moore 65
John J. Martin 14 grandson New Zealand
London, England, City of London and Tower Hamlets Cemetery Registers, 1841-1966
John James Martin
488 Old Ford Rd, Bow
Age 80
Birth date about 1867
Burial Date 14 Feb 1947
Burial Place London, England
Reference Number CTHC/01/034
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Susannah Moore and John Richard Martin m 13 Dec 1864 St Mary Newington
I cannot read his occupation.
However that narrows down the options for travel to NZ. Can’t see them on a passenger list so far.
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Any chance Richard Martin was a soldier? 1860s were the peak of the New Zealand wars - conflict between NZ government and Maoris.
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Doesn’t look like soldier. Maybe Cooper?
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John Richard MARTIN was an upholsterer on the 1871.
Sue
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John James Martin became a carpenter. he married an Emily Louisa Hill reg dist Edmonton March 1/4 1889
Emily Louisa Hill seems to have a few Poor Law Settlement records.
I can't see them with any children in the censuses
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"BIRTHS On January 28, at the Dairy Bridge, Wade, the wife of Mr John Martin, of a son."
Daily Southern Cross, 31 Jan 1867
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ntf/
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As well as son John James, there is also a birth for daughter Susan Mary MARTIN to parents John and Susannah in 1869 (1869/316) in NZ.
Modified to add: Actually born 22 December 1868
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Such a common name, however this sounds possible for a return to England:
"THE COUNTESS OF KINTORE, FOR LONDON This famous clipper will take her departure from these waers for England tomorrow ... PASSENGERS - John Martin, Mrs Martin and child ..."
New Zealand Herald 9 March 1869
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ntg/
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Quote: 1881 piece 1381 Folio 52 Page 39
Birkbeck Rd Camden Villa Tottenham
James Moore 69 furniture dealer employing two men London
Jemima Moore 65
John J. Martin 14 grandson New Zealand :End quote
Thanks everyone. It seems that John J. Martin is indeed related to me! I am a direct descendant of Jemima Moore (daughter of the above couple). I will put him back in my tree, and use the information you have all provided me with to make sure I have all of his details correctly recorded.
Much appreciated...
Ms_C
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I want to know why they went all that way and came back. If you ever find out please let us know.
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I want to know why they went all that way and came back. If you ever find out please let us know.
And that is the other part of the mystery! If they had gone to Australia it might have been easier to find their travel plans, but New Zealand has nothing that I can find. It's only a window of about 5 years going by the censuses.
Modified to add: Thanks to the person who posted the link to NZ newspapers, I have found a Mr. and Mrs. John Martin traveling to New Zealand aboard the 'emigrant' ship "Percy". Departing UK on August 1865, arriving 123 days later in January 1866.
Ms_C
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As well as son John James, there is also a birth for daughter Susan Mary MARTIN to parents John and Susannah in 1869 (1869/316) in NZ.
Modified to add: Actually born 22 December 1868
I added Susan, and her dob. UK records show that she died 'at sea' on 15 April 1869, so it appears that the date of sailing to UK of 10 March 1869 is likely correct, although it states John and Mrs Martin and 'child', but I'm not going to quibble over that (having found nothing even close myself)!
Ms_C
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I want to know why they went all that way and came back. If you ever find out please let us know.
I don't know about your family, but a long time ago I was researching a family who were living in Croydon in the 1870s and one child had been born in New Zealand but the others in England. It turned out that the parents who were from Croydon, had actually been working on the ship heading to New Zealand, whilst there the mother gave birth, and then they returned almost immediately with the child - the father still working for the shipping company. If I remember correctly the father then switched to working for the railway.
Liz
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Another option could be that he was looking for gold.
If you were interested further you could try putting a request on the New Zealand board (with a link to this thread), lots of very knowledgeable and helpful people there who have access to other resources. :)