RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: solidrock on Saturday 25 May 19 01:49 BST (UK)
-
Albert William Mcdonald born c1882.
Albert married Annie Maria Britten 31 Mar 1907 • St Philip, Battersea, London. Father is Joseph, (deceased).
In 1911 they were living at 5 Bewick St, Battersea. Birth place listed as London.
In 1939 they were living at 12 Gowrie Road, Battersea. Birth Date: 10 Nov 1882.
They had no children.
Albert's WW! record, Service number 2263 states he was born in Cornwall.
Albert died 10 Dec 1959, age 77. where he was living at 126, Tynemouth Road, Mitcham, Surrey.
I can't find him on the 1891 or 1901 census's or find the name of his mother.
One thing I remember about him from my childhood is that he and Annie always talked about someone who was living called Beatie. There are no Beatie's or Beatrice on Annie's side of the family so I assume she could be maybe a sister of Albert.
Any help appreciated, thank you.
-
Am I going blind already?
I cannot see Cornwall on his military record. Other than in the index on FindMyPast. I don’t see it on the actual document.
There is an 18 yr old Albert Mcdonald in Paddington 1901. born Scotland A machine fitter (singers). But unfortunately he is by himself.
I do not see a birth that might be him in Scotland though, so that’s not much help sorry.
-
Am I going blind already?
I cannot see Cornwall on his military record. Other than in the index on FindMyPast. I don’t see it on the actual document.
On the second record, it says that he embarked (on HT Nile) from Devonport to Salonica, August 1916. Maybe they thought that Devonport was in Cornwall rather than Plymouth.
-
Am I going blind already?
I cannot see Cornwall on his military record. Other than in the index on FindMyPast. I don’t see it on the actual document.
There is an 18 yr old Albert Mcdonald in Paddington 1901. born Scotland A machine fitter (singers). But unfortunately he is by himself.
I do not see a birth that might be him in Scotland though, so that’s not much help sorry.
I don't think he was born in Cornwall either, the records are listed as "burnt" so they maybe guessing.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QVBP-Z777?from=lynx1UIV7
-
Have I got the correct marriage record - it says his father was a Dairyman? Sometimes this was used as a euphemism for 'not known'.
-
1911 shows him as William born Lambeth on Family Search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW5C-1C4
Although my index shows him as ‘W’.
-
1911 shows him as William born Lambeth on Family Search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW5C-1C4
Although my index shows him as ‘W’.
That's right, 5 Bewick St, Battersea.
-
Have I got the correct marriage record - it says his father was a Dairyman? Sometimes this was used as a euphemism for 'not known'.
That's right, was'nt sure if it was dairyman or journeyman.
-
Wish it was journeyman then the family is right there in Battersea, but other sibs in that family marry either side of 1907 and say father is Joseph a carpenter.
Search for Flora Jane McDonald b 1877 father Joseph Battersea to find in 1881 and 1891 censuses then her marriage to Walter Sidney Callow
-
Wish it was journeyman then the family is right there in Battersea, but other sibs in that family marry either side of 1907 and say father is Joseph a carpenter.
A journeyman could refer to a journeyman carpenter. However, I can't make this anything but a Dairyman.
Gadget
-
.
Search for Flora Jane McDonald b 1877 father Joseph Battersea to find in 1881 and 1891 censuses then her marriage to Walter Sidney Callow
That does look like the family though.
-
William McDonald 19yrs b Battersea is a soldier in 1901
991/79/13
-
All records for Albert W, so far, seem to suggest he was born late 1882/1883. He's a 'conduit cleaner' on his marriage cert. Witnesses were James Augustus Britten and Frederick Thomas Ash. James looks like Annie's father. It might be worth checking up on Frederick Ash :-\
-
Hate to pour water on what seemed to be a favourable scenario - Flora Jane McDonald and the William McDonald who is a soldier are indeed brother and sister BUT this William enlisted 12/4/1900 into the Royal Marines (Gunner) and served right through continually until 1921 then went to pension. His mother Emma McDonald of 7 Basnett Road is next of kin. The family lived at that address 1881/1891 with just Emma there in 1901. (Parents Joseph McDonald and Emma Crowder married Mar.qtr.1873 Luton, Bedfordshire - Joseph a House Joiner bc.1832 Scotland and Emma bc.1843 High Ercall, Shropshire). William's birth was 10/4/1881 (when admitted to Gideon Road School in 1888) but Royal Marines enlistment states 3/4/1881.
So back to square one with Albert William McDonald I'm afraid - as already stated, birthdate given as 10/11/1882 in 1939 which ties in exactly with the age of 32 years 3 months that he gave when he enlisted 8/2/1915 - however, no corresponding birth entry to be found in this name in the Lambeth area where he states he was born.
Annette
-
"Wish it was journeyman then the family is right there in Battersea, but other sibs in that family marry either side of 1907 and say father is Joseph a carpenter."
Do you know if Joseph was deceased on the other marriages? I can't find him in 1901. Also Gadjet said "it says his father was a Dairyman? Sometimes this was used as a euphemism for 'not known"
Annie's father was James Augustus Collason Britten.
Joseph could of married Emma Lester Leaney in 1873.
Albert William could be the William on the 1881 and 1891 census's for Basnett Grove, Battersea. Basnett Grove is half a mile from Bewick St, Battersea where Albert and Annie lived in 1911.
Clutching at straws here. ;D
-
Thank you Annette you just broke my straw, like you say back to square one. ???
-
I've been racking my brain for memories of uncle Albert, I was only about 10 or 12 then. He was always smartly dressed in a suit and had a fob chain and pocket watch. He rolled his own cigarettes with 3 Castles tobacco. He was a quiet softly spoken person and could of had a slight Cornish accent, it definitely was'nt Scottish and maybe not London. Aunt Annie was a very dominating person.
I have his WW1 records on Ancestry but no sub at the moment so I can't view them but on FamilySearch it definitely says born Cornwall.
-
I have his WW1 records on Ancestry but no sub at the moment so I can't view them but on FamilySearch it definitely says born Cornwall.
you can see it for free on Fold 3 until Tuesday
https://www.fold3.com/image/413207816
But, I have to say I've looked at it again, i think it's about the 5th time, and I do not see Cornwall anywhere on it.
-
Thank you Mckha489
-
I think you must have missed my earlier post re Cornwall:
On the second record, it says that he embarked (on HT Nile) from Devonport to Salonica, August 1916. Maybe they thought that Devonport was in Cornwall rather than Plymouth.
Gadget
PS - just to add that that I did see a number of people with similar names in the Plymouth area when i first searched.
-
I think you must have missed my earlier post re Cornwall:
On the second record, it says that he embarked (on HT Nile) from Devonport to Salonica, August 1916. Maybe they thought that Devonport was in Cornwall rather than Plymouth.
Gadget
PS - just to add that that I did see a number of people with similar names in the Plymouth area when i first searched.
I could'nt find that record.
-
It was one of the WO 363 series.
Snip:
-
Thanks Gadjet, can you possibly pm me the whole document or a link.
-
I think I may of found him but there are a lot of if's and but's. Ithink he maybe the illegitimate child of Mary Ann Reid.
REID, ALBERT WILLIAM - GRO Reference: 1882 D Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 428
Annies sister Nellie Britten married William G Sanders in 1919, William's brother was Reginald J Sanders who married Lillian May McDonald in 1916.
Lillian's father was Joseph Charles William McDonald who married Mary Ann Reid in 1892 he died in 1897 and Mary Ann re-married in 1904 t0 Francis Knight. On the preview of the 1939 Mary Ann was born 1865 but not sure where. Therefor Albert was the stepson of Joseph and took his name.
Also which makes this interesting Joseph and Mary Ann has a son Ernest C W McDonald who married Beatrice A Hanson in 1919, this could be "Beatie" that I mentioned earlier. Sorry this is so long and complicated, your thoughts appreciated.
-
It sounds plausible. You'd need the birth cert to check the actual date of birth against the 1939 and any other records.
I've had a quick look for baptism records but nothing so far.
Gadget
-
In the 1911 Brixton Mary Ann Knight born Newcastle.
REID, MARY ANN - GRO Reference: 1864 M Quarter NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE Volume 10B
Trying to trace her down to London.
-
For those who are helping solidrock
1911
Mary Ann Knight, 45, born Newcastle, wife of Francis. Includes Ernest William McDonald, 17, Lilian May McDonald, 15, both born Brixton
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW5Q-J6F
1901
Mary A McDonald, 35, born Newcastle, servant in Streatham
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9CN-GWC
and William MacDonald, 7, and May Macdonald, 5, both born Brixton, are visitors in the household of Francis Knight
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9HR-2XK
-
In the 1911 Brixton Mary Ann Knight born Newcastle.
REID, MARY ANN - GRO Reference: 1864 M Quarter NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE Volume 10B
Trying to trace her down to London.
The GRO index has a blank for MMN, which indicates an illegitimate birth.
There is an interesting family on the 1881 -
RG11/5058/50/42
Gadget
-
Can you give me a clue where to find RG11/5058/50/42. Thanks.
-
Lillian's father was Joseph Charles William McDonald who married Mary Ann Reid in 1892
Will put it up shortly - I've found the marriage cert.
On it, Mary Ann's father is given as John Reid, Blacksmith.
Gadget
-
The 1881 census that I previously referred to:
12 Back Lane, Newcastle upon Tyne
William Reid, widower,78, shoemaker, b. Scotland
Christiana, daighter, unm, 41, Boot Closer, b. Newcastle
Mary Reid, grd d, 17, Office Cleaner, b. Newcastle
Thomas W Wallan, boarder, unm, 23, Wrehouseman, b. Newcastle
In 1871, there's also a possible in Seaham Court, Westgate, Newcastle
Parents are
Henry Reid, 38, ?bucket maker, b. Gatehouse, Scotland (I assume this is Gatehouse of Fleet , Kirkcudbrightshire)
Mary, 33, b. Houghton
RG10/5070/7/8
Gadget
-
A mystery baptism at All Saints South Lambeth
25 Oct 1885
Albert Oscar
parent Mary Ann Reid
43 Bromfelde Rd
No dates of birth given in the register
43 Bromfelde in Clapham, possibly was some sort of private school in 1881?
Mention it as there appears to be no birth reg of an Albert Oscar Re*d.
-
A mystery baptism at All Saints South Lambeth
25 Oct 1885
Albert Oscar
parent Mary Ann Reid
43 Bromfelde Rd
No dates of birth given in the register
43 Bromfelde in Clapham, possibly was some sort of private school in 1881?
Mention it as there appears to be no birth reg of an Albert Oscar Re*d.
Thank you jonw65.
I think this maybe him.
REID, ALBERT WILLIAM -
GRO Reference: 1882 D Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 428
-
Thank you Gadget I had already seen the 12 Back Lane, Newcastle upon Tyne, 1881, maybe.
I have those marriage details you mentioned but so far been unable to find father of Joseph or Mary Ann. Still looking for Albert and Mary Ann in the 1891-1901 hopefully in London.
Joseph Charles William McDonald, (Billiard Marker).
Birth Date: abt 1855
Marriage Date: 6 Jul 1892
Place: St Saviour, Brixton Hill, Lambeth
Father = Joseph McDonald [Doctor]
Spouse: Mary Ann Reid [Father = John, blacksmith]
-
This could be Albert William Reid on the Electoral Registers 1903-5 living at 28, Cymon Street, Bethnal Green.
-
Anyone got an Ancestry a/c that can view this, it just maybe my Mary Ann.
London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1930
Court, Governmental & Criminal Records
.
Record information.
Name
Mary Ann Reid
Birth
year
Forget that, not her.
-
Joseph Charles William McDonald who married Mary Ann Reid in 1892 he died in 1897
Interesting that he died north of the Thames
June 1897 Mile End Old Town 1c 263
McDonald, Joseph Charles William
age 43
Buried at Manor Park Cemetery, 4 May 1897
Could this birth be connected? :-\
MCDONALD, FLORA EVA
Mother's Maiden Surname: REID
GRO Reference: 1896 D Quarter in MILE END OLD TOWN Volume 01C Page 467
That one possibly may have died Dec qtr 1899, West Ham district, age 3, registered as Macdonald? Looks like in early November, somewhere in the East Ham area.
-
This must be Joseph on the 1897 electoral register, at 20 Whitehead Street, Mile End
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99FL-S8B5?i=43&cc=2228170
-
Interesting
Admitted to the workhouse at Mile End, 25 January 1899
Mary A McDonald, born 1866, calling nil
children of Mary A -
Ernest, born 1892
Lily, born 1894
Florence, born 1895
Infant, 1 month
Were they all admitted from the infirmary?
26 January 1899
Ernest McDonald, 6, discharged to Schools
27 January 1899
Florence McDonald, 3, discharged to Schools
Lily McDonald, 4, ditto
Discharged 3 Feb 1899
Mary A McDonald, 36,
Frank McDonald 1 month
But ADMITTED on the same day!
Passed from Poplar Union
Mary A McDonald, born 1862, Charwoman
children
Ernest, born 1893
Lilian, born 1894
Laura, born 1895
Frank, 5 days?
then, discharged to the schools on 4 Feb
Ernest McDonald, age 3 ???
Lilian McDonald, age 4
Flora McDonald, age 3
On the 13 Feb 1899, discharge of Mary A McDonald, 36, and Frank McDonald, now given as 6 months?
-
Admitted to the workhouse at Mile End, 25 January 1899
Were they all admitted from the infirmary?
Creed register says admitted from Whitehead Street. Not sure of the number. Possibly 14 or 24
Admission on 3 Feb was from Streets
New mystery? What happened to Frank?
The three older children appear in the registers of the Mile End School, Bancroft Road
-
Some images on FamilySearch :)
Mile End Old Town workhouse A + D
Admission of the McDonald family, 25.1.99
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS12-HSSB-N?i=611&cat=1249964
Then the discharges on 26, 27 January are on image 615
Admissions + discharges both on 3 Feb (but the other way round!) are on images 636, 637
Discharges to schools on 4 Feb are on image 639
Discharges on 13 Feb are on image 651
Religious Creed Register for both sets of admissions, images 863. 864
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS1T-P9S6-P?i=862&cat=1249964
School A + D
Images 148, 150, 151, 153
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39V-BCTM?i=147&cat=1249964
-
On the preview of the 1939 Mary Ann was born 1865
In Lambeth. The free index on the original site now gives the address, which is 69 Mordaunt Street.
Mary A Knight is still listed at that address on the 1953 electoral register, but not the 1954 one.
A possible death?
March 1953 Lambeth 5c 1786
Knight, Mary Ann
age 87
-
New mystery? What happened to Frank?
Another mystery? No birth registration?
-
Thank you jonw65 for that info. Had'nt found the workhouse record before, interesting. As for the children, I have Ernest Charles William, 1893 Wandsworth, Lillian May, 1895 Lambeth, Flora Eva, 1896 Mile End, that must be the Florence. As for Frank, I can't find a birth for him either but going by the family history of Mary Ann he is possibly illegitimate conceived after the death of Joseph, Ernest and Lillian are with Francis Knight and Mary Ann in 1911. Thank you again, more delving to do. ;D
-
Flora Eva died 1899 West Ham 4a 129
-
In the 1911 Brixton Mary Ann Knight born Newcastle.
REID, MARY ANN - GRO Reference: 1864 M Quarter NEWCASTLE UPON TYNE Volume 10B
Trying to trace her down to London.
The GRO index has a blank for MMN, which indicates an illegitimate birth.
There is an interesting family on the 1881 -
RG11/5058/50/42
Gadget
Seems about right, tracked Mary Ann's mother to Christiana Reid, 1838 • Newcastle On Tyne, she never married and died 1896 • Newcastle Upon Tyne.