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Research in Other Countries => Immigrants & Emigrants - General => Topic started by: Lorraine Katherine on Tuesday 28 May 19 18:40 BST (UK)
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Hello Roots Chat
We have a theatrical family that was previously unknown to us!
Please help find Eliza Priscilla Thrasher born 1869 London after 1891
her daughter is Violet Alice Louise Jezard, born out of wedlock
Please help find Violet Alice Louise Jezard born 1890 London after 1901
Violet is given false parents on her birth certificate and baptism and hidden from the 1891 census - why?
Violet is born in Finborough Road and Sacillia Lovell registered at that address is not found on any other records - why?
The Thrasher family change their name when Violet is born, to hide her birth or hiding from debts?
Horace Thrasher born 1893, later known as Horace Courtenay
Horace is given false parents on his birth certificate and baptism, why
Mother Alice Thrasher born 1871 London later known as Grace Courtenay
Grace married step-father Herbert Solomon in 1901
Horace and Violet are sent to a girls boarding school in Southend in 1901, why
Being age 7 and illegitimate his father could remove him from his mother, did the mother move him and give them alternative names to hide them or the father move him to give him a better start in life
Grace is living in a boarding house in Kensington living on own means in 1901 the family rumour that Horace was the son of an Earl or an illustrious member of the aristocracy, a person of considerable note.
The Thrasher family change their name when Horace is born, to hide his birth or hiding from debts.
Please help find Edward Leslie Court born 1905 London after 1926
Mother Ruby/Ruth Court (maiden names Ruth/Ruby Thrasher/Jezard), father Albert Edward Court Chief Of Staff London Coliseum
Ruth emigrated to America in 1905/1912 and had a common law marriage with also married Edward Warren Congdon a theatre booking manager, she was herself an actress/dancer and died in San Fransisco in 1968
Albert died in 1923
Edward emigrated to Canada in 1926
Eliza, Alice and Ruth's sister Louisa married Percy Atkins a theatrical business manager at the London Lyceum, The Globe (we have a silver bowl with The Globe Club engraved underneath, the bowl looking like the beautiful domed theatre ceiling) and other London theatres.
The sisters parents are Robert Thrasher and Priscilla May Pope, who were also probably not married as no marriage certificate can be found - but according to the Charles Booth survey the Thrasher family live in wealthy, respectable areas of London.
The Thrasher family are known as Torplow/Triplow, Jezard and Courtenay.
Thank you for your help!
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Please help find Violet Alice Louise Jezard born 1890 London after 1901
Violet is given false parents on her birth certificate and baptism and hidden from the 1891 census - why?
Violet is born in Finborough Road and Sacillia Lovell registered at that address is not found on any other records - why?
What are the false names etc? Can you please post all the details from the birth cert, even if you believe them to be false.
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Violet Alice Louise Jezard born 1890 London, baptised 1896 with Horace
Birth certificate parents Eliza Thrasher now Eliza Jezard, husband Alfred Jezard
Baptism parents May Jezard and George Jezard
Eliza and Alfred are not married - Alfred doesn't exist
Violet and Alfred do not appear on the 1891 census
Eliza is living with her family - is Violet upstairs in a room just not noted down for the census
Eliza's mother is Priscilla May Thrasher (Pope) born 1841 Hartest and Priscilla has a brother called George Pope - could these be the baptism 'parents'
In the 1881 census a brother Alfred Pope is visiting but looking at all the censuses for Priscilla's Pope family there is no Alfred and checked out baptisms in between each census
Horace Thrasher born 1893 London, baptised with Violet 1896
Birth certificate parents Grace Courtenay, now Grace Thrasher, father Robert Thrasher (Grace Courtenay is Alice Thrasher, Robert Thrasher is Alice's father)
Baptism parents Percy Thresher and Louisa Thresher (this is Percy Frederick Atkins and Louisa Thrasher Alice's sister who marry in 1905)
When Alice marries as Grace Courtenay in 1901 she calls her deceased father Robert Courtenay - we think Robert Thrasher who dies in 1879 is our Robert who on the death certificate is a fireman, a theatre fireman as the fire brigade have no records of him
Horace and Violet are living with their grandmother Priscilla May Thrasher but now known as Priscilla Jezard living in 133 Finborough Road
Priscilla dies in 1900 the widow of John Jezard (is this Robert Thrasher, when her daughter Ruth/Ruby marries as Ruby Jezard she calls her father Robert Jezard) but again no marriage for Priscilla and John and her daughter in law with her at her death was Ellen Jezard (is this Eliza) who again doesn't exist, so perhaps another reason why the children are sent to a boarding school having no-one to care for them when their mothers are working but why Southend and why a girls boarding school for Horace - he hated it there apparently!
Thanks again for your help!
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I've spent all day between showers looking at this. And nothing! sorry.
Have you investigated the 1863 marriage of Priscilla POPE to either Hansen or McDonald?
Where is Priscilla POPE in 1861?
Regarding Edward Leslie COURT I would suggest making a separate post for him on the Canada Board, just asking for him after 1926. (with a link back to this post and the other two related posts)
Did Eliza herself go on the stage too? did she have another name for that?
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In the 1881 census a brother Alfred Pope is visiting but looking at all the censuses for Priscilla's Pope family there is no Alfred and checked out baptisms in between each census
Might this be James POPE? The right age.
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See also http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/forum/topic9070.html for other lines of enquiry on this topic.
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thanks Jen.
The Era September 7, 1907
this part is for a boy, so unlikely to be played by an older woman. I wondered if Elsie might be Violet
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With Horace, the Earls Of Devon are styled as Lord Courtenay - there was an Earl who was known to have several illegitimate children in the 1890's - the Earl died in January 1891 and unfortunately Horace was born in January 1893 - even if Horace's mother had not registered Horace's birth in a timely manner it's stretching the imagination too far for this man to be the father - unfortunately the next very religious Earl destroyed any papers relating to these illegitimate children. When asking if the family knew anything about Horace Courtenay born in 1893 the Earls Of Devon did ask 'is he one of ours' ! When Horace died in 1959 his solicitors were unable to trace his birth certificate as he had been registered as Horace Thrasher, the earliest we know Horace as Horace Courtenay is 1901.
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thanks Jen.
The Era September 7, 1907
this part is for a boy, so unlikely to be played by an older woman. I wondered if Elsie might be Violet
This person is quite possibly Elsie Gladys Jezzard 'Music Hall Artist' in 1911 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWXB-3MK?print=true
(who also happens to be the grandmother of the actor David Suchet!)
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Oh well.....
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Thank you very much Mckha489 and JenB
Hans Jorgen Hansen married Emily Harrington in 1863.
George McDonald did indeed marry Priscilla Pope in 1863 - but from the marriage banns she is from Liverpool and her father is William Pope - our Priscilla's parents are Thomas and Charlotte.
Cannot find Priscilla in 1861 - local archives have advised that if she was living in certain parts of London these censuses have been destroyed - as also can't find Robert Thrasher in 1861 but also can't find Robert in 1851 but he is yet another enigma!
Eliza could well have a stage name - but we only found the other names from ordering birth, marriage, death certificates and cross-referencing addresses and finding alternative names - a fascinating nightmare - even Percy Frederick Atkins a well known theatrical business manager found in The Stage, The Era and other newspapers and marries into the family (Percy Frederick Atkins married Louisa Thrasher in 1905) uses his wife's last name and you find him as Percy Thrasher or Percy Thresher in official documents.
We wondered if we were related to David Suchet's family - but I think our Jezards are figments of the imagination - name changes hiding from people, hiding from debts - but the family lived a middle class wealthy areas of London looking up the streets where they lived on the Charles Booth Survey.
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Alfred Pope in the 1881 census could well be James Pope as they have the same age - anything is possible with this family!
Alfred Pope could also be Alfred Jezard on Violet Alice Louise Jezard's 1890 birth certificate - he could be stepping in as 'father' - just as Alice Thrasher/Grace Courtenay uses her father Robert as the 'father' of Horace Thrasher born 1893.
Who is John Jezard 'husband' of Priscilla May Thrasher/Jezard (maiden name Pope).
Who is Ellen Jezard who is with Priscilla when she dies in 1900 - Eliza Thrasher?
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See also http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/forum/topic9070.html for other lines of enquiry on this topic.
This thread has fuller information and shows how precarious theatre life could be for the financier and producer
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=360100#post360100
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What date was Violet Alice Louise born? You say she was born Finborough Road but family weren't living there in 1891.
Annette
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What date was Violet Alice Louise born? You say she was born Finborough Road but family weren't living there in 1891.
Violet was born in 1890 in Earls Court, Kensington. On Violet's birth certificate her mother is listed as Eliza Jezard formerly Thrasher and Eliza's husband as Alfred Jezard. However, Thrasher and Jezard are both Eliza's maiden names from her father Robert Thrasher and step-father John Jezard. We do not know who Alfred Jezard is. Violet, Eliza and Alfred are living at 109 Finborough Road, Kensington on Violet's birth certificate. We have not been able to find a marriage for Eliza and Alfred.
http://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/forum/topic9070.html
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Thank you
Violet Alice Louise Jezard
Registration Year: 1890
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Kensington
Born 109 Finborough Road
Also living at 109 Finborough Road is Sacillia Lovell, now also found as Cecilia Lovell living in other areas of Chelsea and Kensington but can't seem to find a suitable Cecilia Lovell on the 1891 census/1901 census, just wondered who she was, her occupation if theatrical
When Violet is baptised with her cousin Horace Thresher/Thrasher later known as Horace Courtenay in 1896 they are living with their grandmother Priscilla May Thrasher (maiden name Pope) but now known as Priscilla Jezard at 133 Finborough Road and lived there until her death in 1900 - that's when Horace and Violet must have sent to a girls boarding school in 1901 - but why Southend when they live in Kensington and why a girls boarding school for Horace.
Horace's mother Alice Thrasher later known as Grace Courtenay is living in a boarding house living on own means in the 1901 census at 13 Finborough Road - her husband-to-be Herbert Solomon is living with his family in the 1901 census but living at 13 Finborough Road by the time of their marriage in 1901 after the census - their boarding house lady being one of their wedding witnesses, Herbert's father is dead but his mother or siblings did not attend the wedding - Herbert was known as the black sheep of the family - the Solomon family don't know why, sadly the oldest family member who knew of him died before we started this research - but Herbert was Jewish and Grace was Christian with an illegitimate child.
When we asked the Earls Of Devon, Lord Courtenay about Horace Courtenay they asked 'is he one of ours' as an Earl who died in January 1891 was known to have several illegitimate children, the next Earl who was very religious destroyed papers on these children - but Horace was born in January 1893 - Grace couldn't have registered his birth that late could she?
Why is Violet not with the family in the 1891 census when they are known as Torplow/Triplow.
Horace died in 1959 and his wife Adelaide died in 1987 - and that is when a family member who had been sworn to secrecy told us that Horace had said when his wife died his secret could be told that his father 'was an illustrious member of society, a person of considerable note' - Horace had also wanted to tell his son towards the end of his life but unfortunately died suddenly taking this family secret with him
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I actually meant Violet's full birthdate, not just the year 1890.
Annette
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Hello Annette
Thank you, found the birth certificate now - Violet's birthday is 30 October 1890.