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General => Technical Help => Topic started by: River Tyne Lass on Tuesday 11 June 19 13:20 BST (UK)
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I am at the library and the usual easy to use old fashioned style microfilm reader is broken. I am using one of their new modern ones to try to look at a newspaper.
However, I can't view the paper pages at any decent size. I would like to be able to view a whole page at once without having to zoom in to little sections - that would take a long time to find things.
The staff are at a loss to know what to do - might anyone else know. Even if you can't let me know today it would be useful for another time. Pages are showing at only a third of the screen - very frustrating - how can I get in full screen mode please?
If anyone can tell me - I will also let staff know. Thank you.
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Is there a mouse?
Click and scroll wheel to zoom/ shrink?
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I have a vague memory of using a machine that had two lenses that either slid or swivelled into place. If I remember correctly, one was for close-up, the other let you see the whole page.
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Thanks, Pauline for trying to help. There is a mouse but clicking and scrolling is doing nothing, unfortunately. :-\
Oh, I really don't like modern technology.
I will go off to take a photo of screen - give me a little time - staff say I can do this ..
Added .. Thanks too to Isabel. I will take photo to see if this might help anyone to help me .. be back soon ..
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I know nothing about microfilm readers, old or new, but while you're there can you see a make and model number?
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The ones I use, at the Manx Museum Library, are modern - they are essentially computers, with a large computer screen.
If the one you are using is like this, then you need to note what software is being used.
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I am attaching a photo .. thanks Rattus and KGarrad ..give me a few moments and I will dash back downstairs to find out more about the make/model etc to see if this might help further.
I would like to be able to view a proper screen view .. print is too tiny in this view .. :-\
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On top left hand corner there is written:
ProLife T2252MTS
and bottom right corner:
iiyama
Is this any help regarding the model?
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Try pressing control button on the keyboard and at the same time, scroll in and out with the mouse wheel. A little box with +/- should show at the top right hand corner of the screen to show the %
Carol
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Thanks Treetotal I have now just tried this .. nothing is happening unfortunately. :-\
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RTL - Iiyama is a monitor manufacturer. It's basically a PC, like KGarrad says. Your pic shows a fairly standard Windows 10 desktop. So determining the name of the reader software is the next step.
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The white bar, just above the screenshot, should say (on left) the name of the software?
Or the rightmost icon at the bottom of the screen?
Looks like: Unknown; Windows Explorer; Google Chrome; then the microfilm reader software
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Around the edge of the newspaper image, I can see a number of square handles. Can you not click and hold on these to drag out and resize?
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Thank you for all replies .. I have now noticed that the words
SL- Touch Ver.2.3.0.0
is written on the white bar on top left.
I have tried dragging handles too to no effect. :-\
I can't see anything about reader software?
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I think this is the manual:
http://www.softfile.com/pdfs/sl1000_usersguide.pdf
Page 63 seems to deal with viewing options. I can't quite match it up with what I can work out from your own pic of the screen, but maybe it makes sense if you're sat in front of it.
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I was in our newspaper library this morning, and a technical man was showing the duty librarian how to use the new machine. I overheard him saying there are things he can't get to work. I didn't feel such a fool after that, having failed miserably with it yesterday (when the older machines were all in use).
The old SL-Touch was a doddle. The new machine is an abomination -- sorry I didn't notice what the software for it is called, as I have no intention of ever trying it again. Tell your library to chuck it out!
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Thank you everyone who have tried to help. I am going to give up on this for today.
The staff say they will contact their technology people to see if they can help find a full screen view.
I will ask again of the staff the next time I am at the library. If they can come up with the solution I will post on here .. as you never know someone else may find this useful too.
Oh, if only the old, easy to use machine had not broken down .. that was a brilliant machine .. I don't like this new complicated, computer says no, type technology at all ... >:(
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wee Hugh,
I know exactly what you mean.. I have always used the old machine. I sometimes see people struggling with the new type and then when I vacate the old machine they waste no time in jumping on this.
I think it might be that the old machine will not get fixed .. so I might have no alternative but to try to learn how to use these new 'computer says no' models. That is if the technology department can either sort it out or explain how to do it to the staff.
I think it is a bad do when simply trying to view a whole page on new technology turns out to be rocket science fit for the likes of the movers and shakers at Bletchley Park!! >:(
I wish I could tell the library to chuck it all out and replace with easy to use technology that doesn't require a rocket scientist to be able to use it. Bah humbug!! >:(
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Last minute reply before you pull hair out?
Looking at the keypad to the right of your viewed image, what effect does clicking onto the image like a small screen do.
Brian
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Thanks, for trying to help Calverley Lad,
I only have a few clumps of hair left after that time in front of the microfilm reader ;) ;D
I am no longer beside the microfilm reader .. that key pad only helps you go forward or back when using the microfilm. It doesn't actually help you to read a full page which is what I was hoping to do today. Ever the optimist, I am hoping the local studies staff will be able to find someone at Bletchley Park .. no, I meant to say in their technology department who can fathom how to use these wretched machines ..
I will post at some point in the future once this rocket science has been worked out so ordinary members of the public like myself can get some research done .. ;)
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Maybe go to a Library and see if they have a Manual on their bookshelves? ;D
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Can the Librarian not contact the I.T Department?
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Rattus kindly posted the manual .. unfortunately, I am still no further forward. I will look at this more closely in the near future, even though this might bring on a migraine ..
The library doesn't have a manual on their shelves - which is just as well, as I think I would have been tempted to thwack all the new modern microfilm readers with it just to release all my pent up energy after pulling out my hair in clumps .. ;) ;D
Unfortunately, I am not really a technology or manual type person .. I am better at the 'sitting next to Nellie' type tuition. I will have to get this problem sorted though at some point .. I value looking at the old newspapers too much to give up .. :) ;)
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Hi Hallmark,
Yes, after this afternoon .. me being stuck and the local studies staff being also at a loss at knowing what to do .. they are going to contact their IT department to see if there might be someone who can help. They are aware that I have been trying to seek help on RootsChat too.
I really think it is quite a bad do when an item of technology proves to be this difficult to fathom. :-\
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The Librarian should have been able to contact I.T. Department who could advise her.... or they do it remotely!
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Our library recently acquired the same type of microfilm reader. Fortunately the staff have been trained in how to use it!
However, it took at least 10 minutes to boot it up (they are all apparently linked into the same Council server at Morpeth).
When the kind library assistant who was helping me found the particular newspaper article I wanted she was able to either have it printed out for me or to email it to me.
She advised me that in her opinion the best thing to do was to locate the article first via the ‘old’ reader and then transfer to the ‘new’ reader to get it copied, because it wasn’t possible to get a good ‘whole page view’ on the new machine.
It does produce a lovely sharp copy, though :-X
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As a matter of inteest..... what happens if one keeps their finger on Ctrl key and then presses the + key a few times?
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Yes, that would have been great if that could have happened .. but then again, perhaps the 'experts' in the I.T department might need a few days, to try to figure this out. ;D Hopefully, they might have 'cracked the code' on this rocket science by next week and I might be able to view a WHOLE page on my next visit. ;) ;D
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Hi Hallmark
I am no longer at the microfilm reader so I can't test it out at the moment .. I have pressed so many buttons and keys today to no avail .. if the 'experts' in the I.T. department can't work it out by next week I will try out your suggestion.
Hi Jen,
That sounds quite a novel idea .. train the staff how to use it first .. ;D
I know from experience that people find these new machines difficult to use. I was at North Shields today. Newcastle library have one new machine and a lot of old ones. The old ones always get taken up first by users. If you are really unlucky and you get there last and are sufficiently desperate as a very last resort you can use the new machine. Perhaps, that is a plus that you might get a sharp image when printing something out. I usually just want to read something and make a note of it. I quite detest this new technology of the 'computer says no' variety. Give me the old machines every time. Easy to load and locate stuff on .. no pauses for the image to resharpen once you have stopped on forwarding .. no fuss or faff.
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Perhaps, that is a plus that you might get a sharp image when printing something out.
In this particular case I did need an actual copy of the article.
If you think about the size of the screen and the size of a page of newsprint, even if you can achieve 'full screen' you are going to have to zoom in a lot in order to read the text.
Here is our machine at 'full screen' looking at half a page, (and, no, I am not in the shot ;D the Council Leader has got his camera face on :-X ) https://www.northumberland.gov.uk/News/2018/Oct/Hexham-library-scanner-a-hit-with-local-history-en.aspx
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I notice it is a dual microfiche/microfilm scanner/reader, I cannot see what make it is but the ones I have used require the lense to be changed between reading microfilm & microfiche.
Has this been done?
Cheers
Guy
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Thanks Guy, for this suggestion. No lens was changed. However, at this library they only have microfilms not fiche. However, I will mention this to them next week in case it might turn out to be a lens problem. Staff did find out that it is possible to get a larger view by turnng the image on its side. But I don't want to have to sit with my head cocked one side all the time when I am researching. :-\
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Here is our machine at 'full screen' looking at half a page, (and, no, I am not in the shot ;D the Council Leader has got his camera face on :-X ) https://www.northumberland.gov.uk/News/2018/Oct/Hexham-library-scanner-a-hit-with-local-history-en.aspx
The one in this article looks like the new machine at my local archives, and the staff weren't that keen on it and weren't really sure how to use it. I can't remember how I changed the image view on the screen though. I found the machine painfully slow, however one of the benefits of it, when I eventually got my head around it is that I could download an image onto a data stick, so didn't have to pay 60p per page for a copy from the old style machine. I do use an older machine first to find the right pages I want to download to save time because its so slow.
Good luck next time!
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Hi Jen (I have just realised you posted again) and Gan Yam, thank you for these posts.
The newspaper I wanted to look at today was the old Whitley Bay newspaper, which was ahead of its time, in that the print was large enough to be read easily even way back then. I have never had to zoom in and out for that newspaper using an old machine.
When I am at Newcastle looking at old death notices in the Evening Chronicle, sometimes the print can be very small. However, on an old style reader everything is so easy. You can get much more done on them in half the time. When I have had no choice at libraries such as South Shields (which has all new readers) I have also found these painfully slow. And I can guarantee that if anyone goes to Newcastle local studies that you will never see anyone on their new reader if any of the old ones are available. At least, this is what I see in my experience there.
Today on the new reader to get to a decent size, the page had to be increased to a point where there was only a view of the middle of the page. I do hope I have better luck next time .. I fear it might cost too much to fix the old user friendly reader. It seems to me that this 'progress' in acquiring these new modern machines is not much cop at all. I do hope someone out there can invent something better than these hard to fathom, painfully slow, constant adjustments needed machines. The old machines are much more load and go!
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I have just remembered that Isabel H said the same thing as Guy regarding the change of lens. Perhaps I should have suggested this to the staff earlier. Hopefully, someone from I.T. might let them know if it does turn out to be a lens problem.
If I do get this issue sorted out eventually, it might turn into a positive in that others may also find out how to overcome this problem.
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This might help https://cragside.northumbria.ac.uk/Everyone/skillsplus/database_uploads/55388799.pdf (https://cragside.northumbria.ac.uk/Everyone/skillsplus/database_uploads/55388799.pdf)
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I notice it is a dual microfiche/microfilm scanner/reader, I cannot see what make it is but the ones I have used require the lense to be changed between reading microfilm & microfiche.
Has this been done?
Cheers
Guy
Guy, If it's SL-Touch then you don't change anything on the microfilm reader itself ;D
It's all handled by the software ::)
I use SL-Touch at the Manx Museum, but don't use it for Newspapers.
That side is all handled by the iMuseum.im website.
Newspapers already all scanned in to a database - ready for searching!
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Having read the thread, though I have no experience of the readers you are using, I am left wondering if the part of the process that is 'modern' is the display.
the source of the image still appears to be a microfilm, that hasn't changed. So at a guess, whatever means were employed previously to read it (different lens to suit the resolution at which the original was microfilmed) would still apply at the 'business end' where the current equipment interfaces with the microfilm.
Once that is in place then I'd expect the image you see on the screen will be easier to read/ zoom in and out of.
<this is similar to the problem with reading newspapers online that were originally microfilmed at a resolution that requires a stronger lens to view them on an old reader - if they are digitised without first using a lens to suit, then zooming just makes the whole image bigger and blurrier- not clearer>
and I would add, that whichever IT dept installed the new equipment without giving the staff proper training as to how to use it, is at fault here.
Folk who staff archives etc are not usually employed for their IT knowledge, their role requires different skills . They need/deserve help to understand new equipment. Its very unfair to install new equipment and swan off into the sunset without ensuring the staff know how to use it correctly.
Boo
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Thanks Guy, for this suggestion. No lens was changed. However, at this library they only have microfilms not fiche. However, I will mention this to them next week in case it might turn out to be a lens problem. Staff did find out that it is possible to get a larger view by turnng the image on its side. But I don't want to have to sit with my head cocked one side all the time when I am researching. :-\
This sounds like zoom is controlled by the software (turning a newspaper image on its side makes the long edge horizontal allowing a slightly larger image to fit on the screen).
Instead of trying to view the entire page on one screen view the page vertically and zoom in using the + key to enlarge and the - key to reduce. You may find fitting the image size to the width of the screen allows you to read the image text whilst only having to scroll slightly for the bottom section of the page.
Another way round would be to save the relevant pages to usb stick and read at your leisure at home on your computer.
Cheers
Guy
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Thank you all for these responses - I will certainly try
the + option when I return next week. And thanks too for the link Sc00p - this looks very user friendly and I will certainly be looking through this to upskill on my knowledge - I certainly think I am going to need this.
The staff did their best to help yesterday. They even put some baptism records on - these showed fine - but no matter which new computer I went on the newspaper shrunk in size. If I tried to make the newspaper bigger by zooming most of the page was zoomed out. Really quite frustrating. I told staff I was going to go on RootsChat for help. At the finish, the staff said they would try to contact the I.T. people about this issue. I think the staff basically know how to work the machines but are at a losd to know what to do if a trouble-shooting problem like this occurs.
Personally, I don't like these new machines wherever these are - I think they are more 'state of the clart' than state of the art and the acquirement of them is more cause for commiseration than celebration. :-\
I do feel badly about expressing this negative view as I know shedloads of money is invested in these new models in the hope of enhancing experience. However, I speak as I find and do find it perplexing that the old machines are much more user friendly than the new ones. Surely, the newer models should be the better ones (easier) and not the other way around? I hope I get to develop a more positive view of these new contraptions in the future, but I must say I am not holding my breath.
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Just an update - I feel like I have got a reprieve from having to use the modern technology!
I have found out today that the old microfilm reader has been fixed!! :D
Just as well, as it turns out to be a 'computer says no' situation according to the technology people. For some reason it turns out that you just can't view a whole page at once on the new machines at the library. It was explained to me why, but I'm afraid I just developed a sort of brain fuzz like I usually do in 'computer says no' situations and I just darted off to my old beloved microfilm reader .. very grateful! ;)
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Thanks for the update RTL...Pleased that you got a positive outcome and that it's a technical problem and not your lack of understanding...the old ones are the best ;)
Carol
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Was at the local archives yesterday and the receptionist was explaining to someone how to use the new microfilm reader. She told the person that when they load the film they should check the film size and change the setting accordingly. She said that the microfilm that they have is either 16mm or 35mm. Just thinking maybe as you were trying to view a newspaper that maybe the reader had the wrong setting on it. I'm not really sure what difference to viewing it makes but I think that 16mm is used for smaller documents (A4) and 35mm for the larger ones. I've never had to change any of the settings, but that is probably more due to luck.
It might not make the slightest difference, but just thought I would mention it just in case and you have to use the new reader again!
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Thank you Treetotal and Gan Yam for these posts.
I know on an old reader you just change the size of the lens to view different sizes.
I will certainly mention what you have been told when I next go to North Shields local studies. Although, I have already recently been told that technology department say it can't be done. So I don't know if it is anything with the way the newspaper I wanted to look at was filmed originally. I will definitely ask about this. It is a while since I have been to South Shields library to use a machine - they have all modern machines there. However, it does seem possible there to view a full page of newspaper, so I am not sure why it is not possible at North Shields. ???
I know that the old machines will likely not keep going forever, and one day they will all eventually get replaced by new machines. I have since noticed that Newcastle now has three new machines .. but most people still seem to go to the old ones if these are free.