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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Jackiemh on Friday 14 June 19 06:51 BST (UK)

Title: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: Jackiemh on Friday 14 June 19 06:51 BST (UK)
I have a relative who was discharged from the English army in 1915 due to misconduct (convictions by a civil power - mainly drunk and disorderly). Would he have been able to enlist at a later date?
The reason for my question is that I have come across someone with the same name and birth year serving in 1918. The service numbers are different but there are other similarities.
Jackie
Title: Re: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: IMBER on Friday 14 June 19 09:19 BST (UK)
I'm no expert but conscription was introduced in 1916 so that's something to consider perhaps?

Imber
Title: Re: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: IMBER on Friday 14 June 19 09:27 BST (UK)
Just for the sake of historical accuracy in your notes he was discharged from the BRITISH Army. :)

Imber
Title: Re: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: hanes teulu on Friday 14 June 19 09:31 BST (UK)
http://military-researcher.co.uk/KingsRegs1912/para-11.html

Nothing mentioned under "Special Instructions"
Title: Re: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: Jackiemh on Friday 14 June 19 09:43 BST (UK)
So it sounds as if he might have been able to enter the British Army after serving his penal sentence.
Is there a site where I can check for more background details (as opposed to findmypast, ancestry etc)  as the 1918 soldier was awarded the Military Medal.
Jackie
Title: Re: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: hanes teulu on Friday 14 June 19 10:03 BST (UK)
I have amended the link I posted originally. I sent "392-12" instead of "392-11" (apologies) - but still nothing about re-enlisting -
Title: Re: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: hanes teulu on Friday 14 June 19 10:23 BST (UK)
Hansard
https://hansard.parliament.uk/search?partial=False

Use search key re-enlistment and restrict dates to "from 08/06/1915 to 08/06/1915"

Returns 1 response - click on "re-enlistment" - but who knows what the thinking was 3 years later?

You can expand search by amending search period.

Do you have his papers re his re-enlistment. Did he make any declarations. How would the recruitment centre processing the documents know/check for previous discharge?
Title: Re: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: Jackiemh on Friday 14 June 19 10:29 BST (UK)
I came across his name in a newspaper article re the Military Medal. I tried to cross reference it with findmypast but it doesn't have much in the way of detail, only really his service number, unit and a bit about the medal. No personal history to confirm or deny.
The newspaper mentioned his occupation (which tallied) and area where he had been living (the Coventry area) but little else.
Jackie
Title: Re: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: jim1 on Friday 14 June 19 11:47 BST (UK)
Can you give us name, rank no's & Reg't. for both
We may be able to dig something out.
Title: Re: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: Jackiemh on Friday 14 June 19 22:40 BST (UK)
The name in question is Benjamin/Ben/B Hazlewood/Hazelwood b1884 in Coventry, occupation blacksmith.
1) Enlisted 24/8/1914 in Coventry, service number 88988, Royal Field Artillery (no3 Battery?), posted 3/9/1914  14'R'  343. NOK listed as wife. Discharged 2/3/1915. Prior Service in Royal Warwickshire Regiment c1901, service number 8570.
Source -findmypast military service records.
2) Sergeant Benjamin Hazlewood of Hampshire Regiment of 'address' formerly a blacksmith awarded Military Medal .    Coventry Standard 11/1/1918
Findmypast gives his service number as 13334, Medal for action in Salonica.
Thanks for your interest
Jackie

Title: Re: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: Malcolm33 on Saturday 15 June 19 00:10 BST (UK)
    They did recall soldiers to Service after a Civil Sentence.

    My Great Uncle William Grant - brother of my grandma Harriet Grant - was sentenced to 5 Cal months in Prison by a Civil Authority on 16th March, 1896, when he was serving in the Coldstream Guards.   At the end of the sentence he was transferred to the Reserve.

     Offence as shown in his Service Record has 'Drunk, Violently assaulting Police'.

    Then in October 1899 he was recalled to Service and posted to South Africa where he won medals for being in battles of Diamond Hill, Belmont, Modder River, Johannesburg, Dreifont and Belfast.
Title: Re: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: Malcolm33 on Saturday 15 June 19 00:13 BST (UK)
Charge of the Coldstream Guards at Diamond Hill - one could be William Grant.

See sketch in this page - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Diamond_Hill
Title: Re: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: hanes teulu on Saturday 15 June 19 09:49 BST (UK)
Check the 1911 Census for Ben Hazlewood, location Coventry. Returns 2 hits - both Blacksmiths.

Title: Re: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: hanes teulu on Saturday 15 June 19 10:19 BST (UK)
Meant to add (lap top behaving very strangely at the moment!!) -

The newspaper reports about the award of the MM state where he previously worked. Check place of work on the 1911 Census and compare. The 1911 Ben Hazlewood with a place of work that "fits" the 1918 newspaper report is NOT the Ben Hazlewood that attested 1914. The 1914 attestation names wife as "Laura" - which "fits" the other 1911 Census record.

 
Title: Re: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: hanes teulu on Saturday 15 June 19 12:24 BST (UK)
Check the 1939 Register for Ben Hazlewood, Coventry. There's an entry that "fits" the younger of the 2 Ben Hazlewoods on the 1911 Census and the 1939 address is very close to the address given in the newspaper report re. the award of the MM.
Title: Re: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: Jackiemh on Saturday 15 June 19 23:03 BST (UK)
Thank you for looking at this for me. Sometimes, the answer is staring at you but you miss it. I looked at the 1939 map, and that helped as well.
NB I think I found the other Ben Hazlewood in a newspaper report in 1923, still being drunk and disorderly!
Jackie
Title: Re: Army discharge under kings regulation paragraph 392 XI
Post by: hanes teulu on Sunday 16 June 19 08:46 BST (UK)
There are a number of newspaper reports searching under Benjamin Hazlewood and Ben Hazlewood.