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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: sasarina on Thursday 20 June 19 03:36 BST (UK)
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Hi, I am wondering if anyone can help me if I have the correct parents for Isabella Robertson?
I have the birth certificate for John Allen Pinchen, listed parents were John Thomas and Isabella, her father was stated as Peter Robertson, no mother listed.
I know that she married John Thomas Pinchen 1884 in Melbourne Vic.
Isabella died age 38 in 1902, Footscray, Father Peter Robertson, Mother Hannah Moylan.
I have found a child Edith Isabella born 1884 to John Thomas and Isabella Pinchen.
I cannot find any information on Peter Robertson or Hannah Moylan, I don't know if or where they were married?
Hoping for some information, thanking you
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I have the birth certificate for John Allen Pinchen, listed parents were John Thomas and Isabella, her father was stated as Peter Robertson, no mother listed.
Where is her father named? Is it on her marriage cert? Where was she born and how old did she say she was when she married?
Debra :)
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Peter ROBERTSON and Ann MOLAN had a son Alexander in 1862 so if Isabella's birth wasn't registered you should get his cert instead to find information about the parents. Alexander died in 1863, mother Anna MOYLAN.
https://my.rio.bdm.vic.gov.au/
Debra :)
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Doesn't necessarily help with finding Isabella's parents, however there are also these births in Victoria to John Thomas PINCHEN and Isabella ROBERTSON:
1884 Isabella Edith
1888 John Allan
1891 Percival
1895 Lillian
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On the birth cert of John Allen Pinchen who was born 1888.
Peter Robertson was the informant on the birth of John Allen Pinchen, lists him as the Grandfather Gray St Footscray. Also lists Isabella Pinchen as the mother, maiden name, Robertson, and she was aged 25 at the birth of John Allen.
I got the marriage details for John Thomas Pinchen and Isabella Robertson from the BDM's Victoria
married 1884, also the death in 1902 aged 38.
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Yes I did find Edith Isabella born 1884, that was the same year, that John Thomas Pinchen and Isabella Robertson were married
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My resource -
PINCHEN Jno Thos Born Kyneton
ROBERTSON Isabella Born Ballarat
1884 Reg#1520
Information given by participants not a third party.
Cando
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Isabella is interred at the same location at Footscray Cemetery as Peter ROBERTSON and adjacent to John PINCHER [sic]
http://www.gmct.com.au/deceased-search.aspx
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No mention of her mother Hannah Moylan? I wonder? Do we know where Peter Robertson came from?
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You need some certificates. Sorry but I'm a bit rushed today to research any further. There is a probate file at PROV which indicates that Peter was Peter David [known as David] ROBERTSON.
Cando
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Thank you so much I think there is something on a David Robertson.
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From Probate: At time of death Peter (David) was a widower. John Alan Pinchen states that Isabella (deceased) was the only child of Peter and wife.
Peter’s surviving next of kin are, Edith Raynor, Rose Pinchen (spinster), Daisy Pinchen (spinster) and Percival Pinchen (in NSW) and Lily Riley (married)
Jamjar
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A possible death for Hannah, bottom of last column: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article190599663
5466/1883 ROBERTSON Hannah, all details Unknown except for spouse: ROBERTSON, Peter aged 52
Jamjar
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Rose’s birth:
18391/1886 PINCHAM Hannah Rose mother Isabell ROBERTSON father John Thomas FOOTSCRAY
Daisy’s birth:
21831/1889 PINCHON Daisy mother Isabella ROBERTSON father Jno Thos FOOTSCRAY, Australia
Daisy’s death:
2116/1976 PINCHEN Daisy mother Isabella ROBERTSON father PINCHEN John place of birth:Melbourne place of death: St Kilda aged 86
PINCHEN Daisy 21-1-1976 Altona Memorial Park Cremation 23-1-1976
Percival’s death:
2496/1942 PINCHEN Percival mother Isabel ROBERTSON father John Thomas place of birth: YARRAVILLE place of death: BRUNSWICK aged 49
Death and funeral notices, 1st and 2nd columns: http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article205273487
He died suddenly and is buried at Melbourne Cemetery. If he was buried with a Hannah, it may confirm that it was his mother who died in 1883.
Jamjar
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All the information seems to have Isabella's father listed as Peter?
If Hannah died in 1883, died age 52 should make her born abt 1831?
I can't find a birth list in Victoria for a Hannah around those dates, so maybe not registered? born elsewhere than Vic.?
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Hi, Thanks to everyone for your help.
I have managed to find a Hannah Moylan that immigrated to Victoria in 1857.
There seems to be a few matches, this Hannah arrived on the Admiral Boxer, aged 27, born abt 1830, her arrival port was Geelong, she was baptised in Cork, Ireland, R.C.
I can't read the dispersals and can only make out Talbot? not sure if it is a place or name of a person?
I'm running into brick walls again, still can't find a marriage for Hannah and Peter.
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1855 news item. I would suspect that this is where she went. To the Misses Talbot. They were at Garden St. Geelong which was her destination as shown on the immigration record. There is a small G just after the St. This would be for Geelong I think.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/91864886
Sue
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Thank you, I'm wondering if this could be Isabella's mother? dates are correct?
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This is a news item about Ann MOYLAN, cook at Geelong in 1864 for people named NOONAN at their hotel.
The woman you are seeking was known to use Ann as her first name
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/150463293
Sue
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Sue thank you, it takes a lot of chipping away to get through the brick walls
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Sue thank you, it takes a lot of chipping away to get through the brick walls
Yes, it does, but certificates, as suggested by other helpers, is the only way to move along with certainty.
Debra has let you know that the birth certificate of the son Alex will give a lot of parental detail.
Download immediately after using credit card
Sue
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Hi, What site is it that you can download the cert from?
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Just rechecking one previous post from Probate, John Allan Pinchen states that Isabella was the only child of Peter and wife?
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Oh I just noticed Alexander was only 8 months when he died so John Allen probably didn't know of him
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To order a certificate
https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/
>Research and family history tab
>Search your family histroy
>Search our records now
Enter the information to bring up Alex ROBERTSON birth. The index number is 9825
When it is located, take the option download $24
Pay and wait for email to download.
The website has had some overhaul work lately and needs patience.
Sue
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Thanking you, I never new you could get them instantly.
I have just been having another look re immigration records.
It appears there is a Anne Moylan, same age, same arrival date,Irish heritage, she arrived on the Mindoro, Melbourne.
This is almost identical to Hannah Moylan except she arrived on the Admiral Boxer, Geelong, so I am thinking that Anne, Anna, or Hannah are two different ladies?
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Ann, Anna Johanna Hannah are all interchangeable.
MOYLAN is not an uncommon surname.
One (or neither) of the women so far found, may be the correct one.
I think there is not much else to be located of real use on the public records.
Sue
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I was going to order a couple of certificates from BDM Vic. Do you know, if it states some details are unknown, like the family name of mother etc. does that mean it is not on the certificate? or is it not shown because if it was you wouldn't need the certificate?
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If it is not indexed, it is unlikely to be on the certificate.
FYI this is what is requested on certificates in states of Australia.
Where a third party informant gives the information,accuracy depends on his/her knowledge and honesty
http://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html
Sue
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Once again thanking you, Unfortunately I don't think I am going to get the information I need from the certificates I looked at. I will need to have a rethink, here I am thinking Moylan should be okay to research better than Smith, but it's turning out to be just as difficult.
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Hi, Thanks to everyone for your help.
I have managed to find a Hannah Moylan that immigrated to Victoria in 1857.
There seems to be a few matches, this Hannah arrived on the Admiral Boxer, aged 27, born abt 1830, her arrival port was Geelong, she was baptised in Cork, Ireland, R.C.
I can't read the dispersals and can only make out Talbot? not sure if it is a place or name of a person?
I'm running into brick walls again, still can't find a marriage for Hannah and Peter.
Occupation Cook. Miss Talbot, Garden Street.
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You are welcome sasarina, but I think I will have to leave you to your search.
Little more will come to light without a little financial outlay I fear.
All the best for now. ;D
Sue
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Thanks Sue, for all your time, unfortunately I did look at a few certificates, but they did not offer any help, I may have to spread the nett further.
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You could contact the Melbourne General Cemetery an ask who is interred at the same location as Hannah ROBERTSON.
MGC@smct.org.au
Hannah's death certificate would list any children both living and deceased from her marriage to Peter ROBERTSON. I have searched my resource and cannot see a marriage in Victoria.
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Thanks Sue, for all your time, unfortunately I did look at a few certificates, but they did not offer any help, I may have to spread the nett further.
May ask I ask which certificates?
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I cannot help feeling surprised that the birth certificate of Alex ROBERTSON reg 9825, did not contain the following helpful information.
Date
Place
Father's name
Father's occupation
Father's age
Father's birthplace
Mother's name
Maiden name
Mother's age
Mother's birthplace
Marriage date
Previous children
Sue
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Hi, I have been searching all day after downloading the certificates yesterday, but cannot find a marriage for Peter Robertson.
Here is what I have found, I purchased 3 certificates, birth Alexander Robertson, Death Alex Robertson, and death of Isabella Pinchen.
I am fairly confident that the parents of Alex and Isabella are the same.
Peter Robertson was 23 when Alex was born in Melbourne 1862, Peter Robertson was born in Stirlingshire Scotland and was a coach painter, he is listed as a painter on all three certs. also that Peter and Hannah were married in 1861, Melbourne.
Ann Moylan/Anna Moylan/Hannah Moylan, I guess is the same person, she was born in County Clare Ireland, and was aged 22 at the time of Alex birth in 1862.
Edith Pinchen was the informant on Isabella's d.c.
Can anyone help, re immigration to Australia for Peter and Hannah? and a marriage for them. I am at a complete loss in trying to find this information.
Thank you for the info, which got me so far.
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Hello everyone, My head is just starting to go into a spin.
I have just downloaded another cert. for the death of Hannah Robertson.
States she was 52y/o at her death in 1883 = born 1831.
She was born in Cork, Ireland, been in Vic. 25years = arrived here in 1858.
Husband is Peter Robertson, her age at marriage 30y/o = marriage date 1861.
Only one child listed, Isabella age 20 y/o = Isabella born 1863.
All this ties in with passenger list for the Admiral Boxer, Hannah Moylan, born abt 1830, arrived Geelong 1857, Irish, and a parish reg. Hannah Moylan, born, abt 1832, Cork.
So I am so totally lost re all the other certs. there seems to be two of everyone? except Alexander Robertson b.c. states Ann Moylan born County Clare, age 22 = she was born 1840?
I just don't know where to go from here.
Would appreciate any help, thanking you.
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It is difficult to make best use of the information that you giving here. It would be useful to have a good account of the BDM information.
You have several BDM certificates, Victoria.
For each of the......, can you please list all of the information.
If you have relevant comments, can you please show them separately from the information on the certificate....at the end.
Can you also describe each certificate as......typed transcription...or image of handwritten document.
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Death Cert for Hannah Robertson
Died May 1883, town Hotham, County Bourke
age 52
surname of parents not known
informant Peter Robertson, husband, Hotham
buried Melbourne General Cemetery, May,1883
born, Cork,Ireland
25 years in Vic.
married Melbourne, 30years, Peter Robertson
Child, Isabella, 20 years, alive.
Birth Cert for Alexander Robertson
born 12th May 1862 Carlton
father Peter Robertson, coach painter,23y/o Stirlingshire Scotland
married Melbourne 1861
mother Ann Robertson formally Molan 22 y/o, County Clare Ireland
informant Peter Robertson Carlton
registered 1862 Melbourne.
Death for Alexander Robertson
death 16/01/ 1863
age 6 months
father Peter Robertson, coach painter
mother Anna Robertson formerly Moylan
informant Peter Robertson father Carlton
buried 17/01/1863 new cemetery Melbourne
Death cert for Isabella Pinchen
death 24/01/1902, Footscray county Bourke
age 38 years
father Peter Robertson, painter
mother Hannah Robertson maiden name Moylan
informant Edith Pinchen daughter, Footscray
burial Jan 26th 1902 Footscray Cemetery
born Ballarat Vic 38 years
married Melbourne 20 years John Thomas Pinchen
children Edith 17, Rose ? John 13, Daisy ? Percy ? Lily?
That is all the certificates I have, some of it was very hard to read.
The information on Peter Robertson is from the BDM listings from Vic.
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"Alexander Robertson born 12th May 1862 Carlton
father Peter Robertson, coach painter,23y/o Stirlingshire Scotland"
A possible baptism (www.scotlandspeopl.gov.uk);
ROBERTSON PETER 30/06/1839
GEORGE ROBERTSON/ISABELLA ADAMS (Parents)
476/30 203 Denny (Stirling)
Annie
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Footscray Cemetery buried in same plot -
PINCHEN Isabella 38 years
RAYNOR Minnie Isabella 7 months
ROBERTSON Peter 76 years
Possibly your Peter ROBERTSON?
9425/1913 BDM VIC death
ROBERTSON Peter parents Elizth UNKNOWN / Robertson Alex
died Fcray 76 years
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I think you are correct that is my Peter Robertson, lots of matches to the Pinchens
I can't find where or when or how he arrived here?