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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: mauze on Friday 21 June 19 01:51 BST (UK)
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Hi to all at Roots Chat,
Looking for help to find death of John Bird born abt. 1819 in Sirhowy Wales. Also 1881 census.
Last known written evidence was the 1871 census he is with the family in 6 Mill Lane, Bedminster. England wife Catherine Charley (Charles) born abt. 1830 and 4 of his eight living children, Catherine 14, Mary Ann 12, Esther 9 and Eily Sophia 5.
Mary Jane another child was born after the census in 1871 while they were still in Mill Lane. Ada Louisa last child was born 1875 and registered by her mother while living at Waters Place, Mill Lane, Bedminster.
I can find NO 1881 census for any of the above family members. All their other girls were already out of home and married.
Mother Catherine died in 1882 at 22 Paul St, Bedminster and registered by her daughter Sarah Gay nee Bird who was living at 1 Mill Lane, Bedminster.
There was an entry for Ada Louisa Bird in 1891 found to be an INMATE , training as servant at the Female Guardian House at 49-51 Upper Maudlin St, St James Bristol.
Descendants in Australia asked their Grandmothers why they could not find any info on their ancestors and were told not to bother looking as they were all orphans. end of story.
My cousin and I have been able to trace most information about the girls until the 1871 census. Does anyone have any thoughts as to why there is no information on 1881 census, and John's death.
Regars Mauze
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A bit confused here, in 1851 his to be wife is Caroline and 1861 his wife is Caroline, in 1871 his wife is Catherine.
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Hi thanks for looking at my problem.
She was known as Catherine or Caroline Charley, Chorley and Charles. My cousin and I took a long time sorting this name change through out her life.
Her sister was named Elizabeth Charley and that is how we were able to sort out a lot on the name changes. As Elizabeth married John's brother George and John and Catherine lived with them in Wales for a time.
Same problem when Emily (Sophia) Bird daughter of Catherine who married my Great Grandfather when she died her mother was on her death certificate as Kathleen Charles.
Catherine Charley's mother was born Hester Smith and when she married it became Esther so the names change started with her.
It is no wonder the Great Grandchildren could not find out their roots. We have sorted it for them and now they have a past.
It is this one last bit of information that escapes us where was John after 1875, when and where did he die.
Thanks again solidrock.
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There is a Ada Louisa Bird marrying William Phillips 1896 Pontypridd Wales.
In 1901 they are living at Abercynon, Glamorgan, Wales.
She died 31 Jan 1967 • Kurri Kurri, New South Wales, Australia.
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Maybe..
Mary Jane Bird, born 29 June 1871 • Bedminster, Somerset, England.
Marriage to
James Atkinson
2 Apr 1892 • Lambton, New South Wales, Australia
Death
30 Aug 1953 • Kurri Kurri, New South Wales
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If John was a miner maybe he also went to Australia for the gold.
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Hi,
Yes she came out in 1890 stayed a year and then sent a message to William that she would not be returning. So he came out with the children. Yes some of sisters came out including my Great Grandmother Emily I think 4 in total came. Because of the mines. I will look for although I don't think that he would have come by himself without Catherine. Unless he came after 1882 when she died.
Bye Mauze
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BIRD JESSIE
22324/1937
JOHN
CATHERINE
KATOOMBA
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Hi Solidrock,
Jessie Bird was born in Victoria her maiden name escapes me I think it was something like Keilor and Bird was her married name. She died in Blue Mountains area.
Thanks for your effort it is appreciated. I might have to try and buy a few more death certs. for John.
There was someone who went by the name of Arranroots who made good headway on Roots Chat in 2006 with no information at all, not sure whether they finally worked it out though.
Regards Maureen
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so working from the 1871
Zion Row, Bedminster RG10/2508 folio 10 pg 11
John Bird head mar 55 miner b. Sirhowy
Catherine wife 40 washerwoman b. Bedminster
Catherine dau 14 b. Garndiffaith
Mary Ann dau 12 b. Garndiffaith
Esther dau 9 b. Garndiffaith
Sophia dau 5 b. Garndiffaith
Marriage sept qtr 1852 John Bird vol 11b pg 169 with Catherine Charley on the same page
baptisms 25 Nov 1861 in Bedwellty, Mon for Catherine, Mary Ann, Esther and John children of John & Catherine Bird address Blackwood
1881 Cumberland Tce, Bedminster RG11/2450 folio 83 pg 12
Esther Bird servant 19 b. Blackwood, Mon
death reg
Catherine Bird age 52 march qtr 1882 Bedminster vol 5c pg 484
possible?
John Bird 57 jan qtr 1875 Clifton vol 6a pg 110
or
John Bird 63 sept qtr 1881 Bristol vol 6a pg 27
which is this burial
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XT92-PM4
not this one, he's a Chelsea pensioner living in Greenbank Road St George in 1881
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Hi Osprey,
Your info is as I have it. Like the death of John in 1875 I will put in an order for his death printout with GRO.
My cousin did not agree with me about him dying about 1875 because of Ada's birth, I did not come across this one myself. The Great Grand daughters that I have been in contact with are pleased with what we have found so far and this death will put them that much closer to their past. They all agreed that something happened as they all said their Grandmothers said John and Catherine children were orphans.
Will let you know about the cert as soon as I get it. All I need it to find them on the 1881 census, were they in workhouses or homes. They definitely were not with their Aunt and Uncle in Wales or their married sisters.
Thank you so much for help.
Regards Mauze
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Hi Osprey,
Have just ordered a copy of cert. for John should know by 29 of this month.
Ada Louisa Bird was born 21 March 1875 and if it is correct John died in March Quarter same year.
WOW I am so excited can't wait.
This will nearly finish the Bird family for me and then I can concentrate on my 3 x Great Grandfather a convict sent to Tasmania in 1839, he was a career criminal, even have his record with photo's from about 1876.
No birth for him though just like my Birds this part still missing.
Regards Mauze
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Found those post's from Arranroots will have a look through them. I still can't find anyone in the 1881. Hope that 1875 death cert is the right person.
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Have you got Catherine's death cert. It should state "widow" if John died in 1875.
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Hi Osprey,
Yes we do that is why we discounted the 1875 death of John. She died Feb. 1882 and it does not say Widow of John Bird. It was reported by her daughter Sarah Gay nee Bird she was living at 1 Mill Lane, which is where Catherine was living at one time, when she died she was at 22 Paul St.
The fact that it does not say widow does not surprise me. I could be wrong though, I will wait for the cert. to come.
Bye Maureen
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On the marriage of Esther to Joseph Webb in 1888 it states Father = John Bird (Deceased), occ = Collier.
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Hi Solidrock,
Thank you for that I had heard that he was dead by the time Esther married in 1888, I am going for 1875 death first and see what happens. I know that Catherine (mother) death cert 1882 does not say she was a widow. If it is not the one I will have to choose more wisely we already have few. One in 1888 was Draper so he is out. 1883 out also a Haulier in Pontypridd. One in 1878 out also he was in Wellington.
There was an entry on Find my Past for a John Bird Burial in Roath, Wales 1875 , no death info on GRO though.
Thanks once again. Mauze
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what's the problem with the haulier death? That can be a mining occupation.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/haulier
Although there is a John Bird aged 58 in Llanwonno in 1881 who is a general carrier
If the death cert of Catherine says wife of John Bird, he is alive as far as the person reporting the death knows.
Can't see an 1875 burial in Roath, but there is one in 1871, that John Bird was an alderman in Cardiff
https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3388241/3388247/38/
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Hi Osprey,
I have a copy of the Haulier's death in 1883, that was registered in Pontypridd, looks like the address was 45 Duffryn St, Mountain Ash. The only problem was it was reported by a son in law William Clarke.
This was my reason for rejecting it, the name of the son in law, is not a name I have come across in the family. John's brother George was still in Wales only he was in Aberystruth and as he lived with George and his wife before he married and Catherine was with as single people I would have thought he might have stayed with him.
I also have seen haulier's to do with coal industry. Her death was reported by her first born Sarah Jane, daughter who was living in Mill Lane.
I will still not completely rule him out as it was after Catherine's death.
Thank you for your effort I am sure he will come to light, it might be that the spelling of his surname could be wrong.
Regards Mauze
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the haulier death was the one who was a general carrier on the 1881 census and he was born Yewsfield, Gloucestershire, wife Ann born in France. RG11/5295 folio 125 pg 65
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Morning Osprey,
That one is definitely ruled out will mark it so as not to waste time on it. I think I will get copies of some of the girls marriages between 1875 and 1888.
I have a copy of Ada Louisa's birth no mention of father being deceased in March 1875 nor Emily Sophia's marriage in September 1885 no deceased against his name.
It might help narrow it down.
Thanks for taking the time to help Mauze
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father being noted as deceased on marriage certs is not to be relied upon. The question was name & occupation of father. I have 3 brothers in my family who married in the 1840s & 1850s, one of them more than once. Father is not noted as deceased on any of the marriage entries although he had died in 1835!
I'll have a look for any parish marriages that may be online
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Hi,
On Emily,s marriage (England) it says father Collier. On her death transcript (NSW) it says Labourer. No family informant it was matron of hospital, I would assume the details would have been given by William her husband as Emily was only 44 when she died. She died from the same thing as her mother peritonitas.
NSW have the best BDM,s I have ever come across. I have sent for the marriages of Mary Jane and Catherine and will probably get some of the others. I did from memory find Mary Jane's entry on ancestry for a marriage (church entry) although I must have printed it and not saved so will look again I am sure though it said collier.
Regatds Mauze
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To Osprey and Solidrock,
I received a copy of John Bird death Feb 1875 not mine he was a glass maker and died from cirrhosis. Lived 3 New Bread St Bristol, daughter Ann LLoyds was informant she lived at 5 New Bread St. So the search will go on.
Thank you once again for your help,
Regards Mauze