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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: davidmilroy on Friday 21 June 19 13:15 BST (UK)
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I'm looking for help to find out more about my GG grandparents David Miskelly and Mary McPherson. David was born around 1820 to John Miskelly and Helen Blain or Blair, and Mary a few years earlier to James McPherson and Hannah Jackson. They had five children all born in Ireland (John c.1841, Margaret c.1845, Helen c.1850, Eliza c.1852 and David c.1856). At some point between 1856 and 1861 they moved to Old Luce, Wigtownshire, Scotland. Daughter Margaret died there in February 1861, and the rest of the family is shown in the 1861 Scotland Census. Any help with the Irish connection (I'm guessing most likely Antrim) would be appreciated.
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Have you traced any later census' which may give you the area in Ireland they were born?
Annie
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If there were any children born in Scotland 1861 onwards, the Scottish birth certificates should record where and when the parents married.
Did they claim under the Poor Law in Scotland? If they did, then the Poor Law records often show where they came from in Ireland. (Not sure whether Wigtownshire Poor Law records survive or where they are kept but you might want to investigate).
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Thanks Annie and Elwyn for your quick responses. It gets complicated in Scotland as David Miskelly is referred to as either Miskelly or Kelly on different occasions. Additionally his daughter Helen (or Ellen), my great grandmother, has also been referred to as one or the other in records. No evidence of further children born in Scotland, but I have found a Miskelly birth in Old Luce in 1870 and that is for an Alexander born illegitimately to Ellen Jane Miskelly. It seems very likely that Ellen was my great grandmother (from signature on separate records and other inf.) She went on to marry William Paterson in Old Luce in 1875. I have searched but found nothing helpful so far in later Scotland Censuses.
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Can you please post all details from the 1861, names, address, occs?
Annie
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I have found a Miskelly birth in Old Luce in 1870 and that is for an Alexander born illegitimately to Ellen Jane Miskelly.
Did you notice whether there was a RCE (Register of Corrected Entries) for Alexander on SP?
I see Alexander has a middle name 'Allison' which could help with later searches?
Allison could be a clue to his father's surname?
Ellen Jane Miskelly went on to marry William Paterson in Old Luce in 1875...
What info. is on the marriage?
Ages/occs/parents occs/witnesses/addresses & were E J's parents deceased?
Annie
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1861 Census:
Address - Craig, Old Luce, Wigtownshire.
David Miskelly, 41, Head, Male, Ireland, Ploughman.
Mary Miskelly, 45, Wife, Female, Ireland.
John Miskelly, 20, Son, Male, Ireland, Servant.
Helen Jane Miskelly, 11, Daughter, Female, Ireland.
Eliza Miskelly, 9, Daughter, Female, Ireland.
David Miskelly, 5, Son, Male, Ireland.
No RCE noted on Alexanders birth record. Recorded illegitimate, born at Glenjorrie, Old Luce with only mother's given - Ellen Jane Miskelly, Domestic Servant. Yes, I too suspect "Allison" is a hint towards the father. The 1875 marriage:
On 9 July at Carscreugh, Old Luce,
William Paterson, 24, Hamilton
Ellen Kelly, 23, Stranraer
No occupations given
Peter Paterson, Plowman, (mother) Agnes Stewart
David Kelly, Labourer, mother's name Mary McPherson
James Morland Witness - Elizabeth McWilliam, Witness.
None of the parents is marked as deceased. I have death records for them all and know that only Agnes Stewart was in fact deceased (1865).
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This looks to be the family in 1871...
Address - Glenhead Worker House, Old Luce
Marry Kelly 52 Head,Housekeeper b Ireland
Allan I Kelly 21 (Dau)! b Ire (Likely Ellen J)?
Eliza Kelly 18 Dau b Ire
David Kelly 15 Son b Ire
James Hamilton 7 (Adopted) b Leswalt, Wigton!
Robert Munchan 5 (Adopted) b Glenluce, Wigton
Maggie Keely 1 (Adopted) b Ditto
Alexander A Keely 1 Mo G/Son b Ditto
Parish: Old Luce; ED: 4; Page: 1; Line: 1; Roll: CSSCT1871_189
You would need to check the original for the status of Mary (i.e. W/M)? & any transcription errors although Alexander A looks positive?
Annie
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Hmm...not sure but worth noting...
1881 - Longhill Farm Cottage, Glasserton, Wigtown
John RODIE Head 37 M Ag Labourer b Glen Luce (Or Old Luce), Wigtown, Scotland
Agnes RODIE Wife 38 b Ireland
Agnes RODIE Dau 15 b Whithorn, Wigtown
Jane RODIE Dau 13 b Mochrum, Wigtown
Elizabeth RODIE Dau 8 b Glasserton, Wigtown
John RODIE Son 6 Glasserton
Isabella RODIE Daur 4 b Glasserton
Andrew RODIE Son 1 b Glasserton
Alexander KELLY Boarder 9 b Glenluce Or Old Luce, Wigtown (Could this be Alexander A)?
Elizabeth KELLY Visitor 15 b Glenluce Or Old Luce
There's room for a child between John c1841 & Margaret c1845 & Agnes could slot in there :-\
Marriage (May be worth a look)?
RODIE JOHN & KELLY AGNES 1863
901/ 14 Wigtown
Annie
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Thank you so much Annie for these hints. I'll have a further look. Maybe inching slowly towards the Irish connection...who knows?
David
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I haven't check on SP yet for other births of an Alexander Miskelly/Kelly or variants yet which would fit the yr +/- 1
Annie
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I'm only seeing the original 1 you found for Luce...
There's this which fits the age but the area is wrong...
KELLY ALEXANDER 1871
900/ 78 Whithorn
I'm unsure of this at the moment as I haven't searched enough for the Elizabeth Kelly aged 15 in the same household 1881.
Annie
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There's an Elizabeth Kelly born 1865 in Old Luce who would fit.
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Seems a good lead for sure...I haven't searched for her in 1871 to see who her parents are.
Annie
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Possibly Elizabeth...
1871 - North St, Old Luce
Parish: Old Luce; ED: 3; Page: 6; Line: 10; Roll: CSSCT1871_189
Agnes Kelly Head Wid 74 Pauper b Ireland
Maryann Kelly Dau 37 Ireland
James Kelly G/son 9 Old Luce
Elizabeth Kelly G/dau 5 Old Luce
Mary Black 52 Seamstress, Old Luce
Looks like Maryann likely mother?
I think there is a family connection there?
Annie
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Rodie - Kelly marriage is only partly helpful. Confirms both were resident Old Luce/ New Luce and that Agnes was 21 which fits an 1843ish birth, but gives her parents as John Kelly (could be OK) and Agnes Murray, which only works if David has a brother called John who also moved from Ireland with a daughter Agnes! Possible.
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I'm expecting/hoping the father of Agnes is a brother of David.
Agnes Kelly (Widow 1871) seems her hubby may be related but wrong generation i.e. could be an uncle of David :-\...a big family...typical Irish Catholics.
Annie
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For later & as it appeared...
Elizabeth Kelly
Birth 22 Jul 1865
Old Luce, Wigtown
Mother Maryann Kelly
FHL Film Number 6035516
She appears to have married...
BELL HENRY & KELLY ELIZA 1883
897/ 10 Sorbie
They have a family (including Elizabeth c1884 & James Alexander c1887)
1901 - Hilltop Cottage, Mochrum, Wigtown
Elizabeth Bell 38 Head (Possibly widowed)
Grace Bell 12
Henry Bell 9
Annie Bell 5
Mary Bell 4
Jemima Bell 1
James Irvine 39
Where/when did David & Mary die & who were informants?
Annie
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Which of the children have you traced to date with marriages/deaths &/or original census entries?
Which do you descend from (Helen)? & is she the only one you have on any census after 1861?
Do you have her death, where?
John c.1841
Margaret c.1845 (Died 1861)
Helen (Ellen Jane) c.1850 (married William Paterson 1875)
Eliza c.1852
David c.1856
Finding where in Ireland they were born would be a great help as the later Scottish census' were quite good for giving actual place names rather than just Ireland but I'm unsure what info. is left out on transcriptions?
It's as though the family have fallen off the face of the earth.
Annie
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They both died in Newton Stewart, Penninghame, Wigtownshire, in 1896, David first and Mary 8 months later. In both cases their daughter Ellen (Helen) was the informant.
The plot thickens, with Elizabeth being Maryanne's illegitimate daughter, with no father given, as informed by Maryann.
I've been trying to map out all the information so far, but I'm getting confused around the widowed Agnes Kelly who would have been born around 1797 and the Agnes who married to John Kelly (possibly David's brother). Agnes and Maryann both feasibly could be Agnes Kelly (Murray)'s daughters but there would probably be too big a gap between David's (c.1820) and John's (c.1800) births. It's getting late... - David
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A possible for David b c1856 (LDS on SP) which is free;
1881 - Barrachan Farm Ho
David KELLY, Servant, 23 Farm Servant, b Old Luce, Wigtown, Scotland
It's quite possible the Head of house thought David was born Luce?
Annie
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"I'm getting confused around the widowed Agnes Kelly who would have been born around 1797 and the Agnes who married to John Kelly (possibly David's brother"
It's easy when names are the same.
Possible death for Agnes Murray Kelly b c1797 (Widow 1871) who's hubby may be a brother of David's father?
KELLY AGNES 78
1873
894/ 35 Old Luce or Glenluce
Matching Ref. surname MCMURRAY
My reasoning is the fact Ellen Jane's son Alexander Allison looks to be boarding with her dau Agnes Kelly Rodie in 1881?
This info. is only because it will save searching later if/when you can find David's parents & baptisms i.e. the 'possibles' folder.
Another puzzle, another Alexander ::) ...Edit...SP has him 19 i.e. he's likely Alexander A
Penninghame; ED: 5; Page: 18; Line: 22; Roll: CSSCT1891_407
1891 - 80 King St, Penninghame, Newton Stewart
David Kellie 73 Retired Labourer
Mary Kellie 75 Wife
Ellen (Helen J) Sheridan 38 Dau
Aleck Kellie 9 G/son
Mary Paterson 14 G/dau
Peter Sheridan 9 G/son
Annie