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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: Glenda46 on Monday 24 June 19 07:15 BST (UK)
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I have an ancestor who was apparently born in Ohio circa 1867. It appears the family were in in USA sometime after 1863 until maybe late 1869 as child born in Scotland in Feb 1870. His name was David Kirkwood TORRANCE on his death the notice in New Zealand it said born Ohio USA and said "Ohio Newspapers please copy". His parents were James TORRANCE and Elizabeth frmly AITKEN.
They had other children with them from Scotland and there may have been a second son James Kirkwood TORRANCE born in 1869, born in Ohio??? as haven't found his birth. In 1870 they were back in Scotland. The father/husband was a Miner. TYIA. Glenda
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I don't know where you would look. They missed the 1860 and 1870 censuses, and Ohio didn't have an 1865 census to my knowledge. (some states took their own census every 10 yrs in the 5th year.) And I haven't seen birth records that early in Ohio either.
Were they well enough off to buy land or have a birth notice in the paper? Doesn't sound like it if they went back after only a few years.
The "Ohio papers please copy" tells you that someone in New Zealand thought that someone in Ohio would be interested in knowing about his death. Did he have relatives there? Is that where they went? That might narrow down your search.
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I'm not finding a marriage for James Torr*nce & Elizabeth Ai*ken in Scotland
Annie
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I said earlier that I didn't know where you could look. Have you tried familysearch.org? They have a lot of US records. And ancestry.com of course. Otherwise, you might have to narrow it down to the county they were in and hope the records were kept and are still around.
Was he a miner in the US? That might narrow it down to southeast Ohio, but don't hold me to it. I'm only going by memory, not by actual knowledge or research. Google '19th century mining in Ohio' or something like that, and see what it says. Add 'coal' if you want. I can't think of anything else they would be mining in Ohio. There weren't any mines in Cuyahoga Co. where I grew up, and I doubt if any in northern Ohio. And western OH is too flat.
Definitely try to figure out why his obit said 'Ohio papers please copy'. Throw the surnames or variants into familysearch or ancestry.com with location = Ohio and see what comes up for the 1860s and forward.
edit to add: include the surname Kirkwood, since they used that as a second given name.
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I'm not finding a marriage for James Torr*nce & Elizabeth Ai*ken in Scotland
Annie
A few trees have his parents as James Torrance and Margaret Kirkwood
There is this marriage 14 April 1849 Bothwell Lanark
James Torrance
Margaret Kirkwood
And his wife was Elizabeth Aitken
Rosie
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A few trees have his parents as James Torrance and Margaret Kirkwood
There is this marriage 14 April 1849 Bothwell Lanark
James Torrance
Margaret Kirkwood
And his wife was Elizabeth Aitken
Rosie
Rosie, sorry, not following...
"And his wife was Elizabeth Aitken"
Where does Elizabeth fit, is she a 2nd wife possibly?
Edit...I've got it now having looked at a tree! ::)
The wife of David Kirkwood Torrance was Elizabeth Aitken
Annie
Add...Above tree has this for David Kirkwood...
"Birth (Alternative) 27 May 1866 Carfin, Bothwell, Scotland" ???
Birth of brother John Kirkwood Torrance 27 Jun 1869
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQYV-JYX
Marriage of John Kirkwood;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q24K-YCFH
Son of John Kirkwood;
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q242-MQS5
Death of John Kirkwood
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QG6K-NSC6
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Deleted, found the info. to my question after my post.
Annie
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Wife of David Kirkwood Torrance ;D ;D
Rosie
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I think this is the family on the 1851 census address 32,Colliery Square Bothwell Lanarkshire
James Torrance age 22 born about 1829 Old Monkland (miner )
Margaret Torrance age 20 born Barony Lanarkshire
Andrew Torrance age 1 born Bothwell
Agnes Stevenson age 10 neice
Rosie
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1871 Census transcribed on Ancestry as Tomaro instead of Torrance
James age 42 (foreman in coal pit )
Margaret age 41
Richard 16
William 14, Thomas 12, Agnes 8,
David age 4 place of birth America U S A
John 7, all births for children in Scotland James Torrance & Margaret Kirkwood
Daniel Lindsay age 3 boarder
The family all in New Zealand later
Rosie
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Wife of David Kirkwood Torrance ;D ;D
Rosie
It's strange how we interpret things at times, when I looked at it later (having found what you meant) it was clear as day ;D
I've edited my post and added to it.
Not sure why the tree owner thinks David K was born in Scotland?
Annie
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Assuming James was a miner in Ohio as in Scotland:
OHIO MINES
Ohio’s coal region covers thirty-two counties, and is located to the south and east of a line that would stretch roughly from Portsmouth through Zanesville to Youngstown.
http://www.miningartifacts.org/Ohio-MInes.html
see Google maps for locations.
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searching at familysearch.org
last name: Torrance
born: Scotland, 1800 to 1840
residence: Ohio, 1860 to 1870
4 results:
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eliminated: Jennett Torrance, in Cincinnati. no mines in the area, children born 24 years earlier in Indiana
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eliminated: Lilly Dorrance, born 1804, Scotland, living in Jefferson County, Ohio. coal country but husband Samuel Dorrance was born in Pennsylvania, and was a farmer.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M6VL-3S7
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maybe: John Torrance, b 20 May 1834, Scotland, parents: Hugh Torrance and Janet Allen, an iron molder, died in New Concord, Muskingum County, 1909.
borderline coal country, but he's not a miner
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X8Z5-PBL
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maybe: James Torrance, born about 1840, no location. married 1861 in Guernsey County.
rich coal country, but need more information
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XD7Z-XXB
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same search using Kirkwood
2 results, eliminated both: a lady in Columbus (no coal), a man in Wiliams County (as far from coal as you can get and still be in Ohio.)
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so your best bets, if your James went to Ohio because he knew someone, are:
the James Torrance, b c 1840, who married in Guernsey County.
or
the man who died in Muskingum County. at least you know he was born in Scotland.
Can you trace either of them back to Bothwell Lanark?
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When did David Kirkwood TORRANCE die in New Zealand?
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When did David Kirkwood TORRANCE die in New Zealand?
David Kirkwood Torrance died 1939 Dunedin New Zealand
Tree's on Ancestry have a birth date of 27 May 1866 Ohio not seeing anything on the birth index
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1861 census at 17 Napiers Sq, Bothwell, Lanarkshire - transcribed on Ancestry as 'Farrance'.
Annette
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Here's a Torrance family in Ohio closer to David Torrance's death date. The trouble is they were from Kirkcaldy, Scotland, which looks to me like it is too far from Bothwell to be connected.
1940 Cross Creek Township, Jefferson County
James Torrance, 49 born Scotland
Catherine, 49, Scotland
Magnus 23, Scotland
Catherine, 18, Scotland
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KWFW-9FF
in 1930 more of the family was home, Roderick (b 1913) Annie (b 1915), Norman (1924), and James (1927/8). All but son James were born in Scotland. The father arrived 1924, all others in 1927. The passenger manifest says Kirkcaldy for the children's place of birth.
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Here's an older couple, in the same county, but I couldn't find as much information on them. I don't know if they had children.
1910 Steubenville, Jefferson County, Ohio
James Torrance, 62, Scotland
Mary Torrance, 61, Scotland
they were married about 1867
emigrated 1888
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MLXC-YMS
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1920 Census in Steubenville, Jefferson County, Ohio
James Torrance, b about 1848, Scotland
Mary Torrance, b about 1849, Scotland
both arrived 1887
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MDBY-TYL
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These were the two families that jumped out at me when looking at familysearch for Torrance, Ohio, 1930 to 1940, because of the tie to Scotland and the area of Ohio they lived in.
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Bottom line, if I was going to go county to county looking for David Kirkwood Torrance's birth in Ohio, I would start in Jefferson County and work outward.
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There's a marriage for 'a' James Torrance & Mary Stewart 1870 Blantyre (Lanark) if any help?
Annie
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There's a marriage for 'a' James Torrance & Mary Stewart 1870 Blantyre (Lanark) if any help?
Annie
Something tells me that was the older gentleman's wife's name, but I forget now which record it was on. So that could be them.
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Thank you for ALL of the above contributions. The reply from Rosie and the incorrect "surname" is all I need. I was not able to find the 1871 Census in Scotland THANK YOU!!!. Obviously due to the miss spelling. However John was on 2.. born 1869 so that is an error too. David is the brother of my Great Grandmother. We have a large tree full of details here (in New Zealand) and it is a question asked by us, all how do we know it is true that he was born in Ohio and yes I guess there were other family or folk who knew the family while they were there hence it being noted to Ohio Newspapers. The census now confirms that. We I have everything else, births, deaths, children, marriages in both Scotland and New Zealand "we" just wanted some Proof he was born in USA. It was until now heresay. I don't wish to be ungrateful but some of the answers sent just confused the heck out of me as had nothing to do with my question. I thought I clearly asked the question.Thank you all for your help no further research needed. From a chilly day in Dunedin, New Zealand BUT the sun is shining.
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"The reply from Rosie and the incorrect "surname" is all I need. I was not able to find the 1871 Census in Scotland THANK YOU!!!. Obviously due to the miss spelling"
Maybe you should have used the official site for the official 1871 census record
1871
TORRANCE JAMES 42
625/2 7/ 3
Holytown, Lanark
"However John was on 2.. born 1869 so that is an error too"
The official census record does not give a yr of birth.
"David Kirkwood TORRANCE on his death the notice in New Zealand it said born Ohio USA
His parents were James TORRANCE and Elizabeth frmly AITKEN."
...was that not an error?
"a question asked by us, all how do we know it is true that he was born in Ohio
The census now confirms that"
With so many errors on the transcription for 1871 how can you confirm this isn't an error unless checking the original?
Annie
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Just a pity no birth record found for you ...But glad you were able to find the 1871 census as Annie said not the original ...Which you will know is on Scotland's People ..Hope it's not to cold in Dunedin ..Beautiful place to be we spent 5 days there a few years ago :
Rosie
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ROSINISH.......As to the census records, the spelling and information given is/was all in the ear of the taker of the information, people back then mostly couldn't write or spell. I have the OFFICIAL census and written number beside "John" the brother looks more like a 7 than a 2 as it has other ink marks over it. As to proof of this situation we have all the birth or baptisms of the other children, but we had only a "note" that he was born in Ohio, the notice in the newspaper. We now have another confirmation he was at least born in USA as shown in the census. Unfortunately when we all started the search NO ONE was alive that knew him, there was just this fable? rumor, idea, that he was born in Ohio, USA. His WIFE was Elizabeth AITKEN. Remember families in distressing times don't always write/give the correct information due to the stress and because they maybe dont know. The families back in those days...even my days and today sometimes, only know what they were told. I was told my Grandmother was a certain surname. She never spoke of her past, my mother, her daughter and my mothers sister, always believed she was in born in NZ and put that on her death certificate, and used the maiden name which turned out to be not her "real name" on her certificate. On tracing her I found: She was born in Sydney, Australia, she lived in Sydney and Melbourne, she came to New Zealand around 19, she travelled back to Melbourne to get the Intentions to Marry document signed by her "mother" as she was under 20. The name she used for marriage was actually that of her Foster Parents, luckily, the NSW Registry in Australia (because I couldn't find her born in New Zealand and as she had married Granddad, who was from Melbourne I tried another option) recorded her under the name her birth mother gave her, reordered her birth mother's name and status at registration and the name of the people actually stated "Registered by ***** Foster Parents. Mother **** in New Zealand at time the registration was required. It would be a pain if we had the "PERFECT " family, our hobby/job would be done too quick.
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ROSIE 17 cheers. I have the original Census thanks... Looks like I have "looked" at it this week before I sent this... Alt symers moving in... ;D ;D ;D ::) ::) ::) ::) Glenda
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It's important to have correct info. to begin with for any query...
His name was David Kirkwood TORRANCE on his death the notice in New Zealand it said born Ohio USA and said "Ohio Newspapers please copy". His parents were James TORRANCE and Elizabeth frmly AITKEN.
I was drawing to your attention the index on SP had the surname spelling correct i.e. easy to locate as you'd said you couldn't find them.
The index on SP had the middle name initial 'K' (Kirkwood) as 'R' for both boys although this has no effect on the original & although rare the difference with K/R most of us are aware of.
Annie
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ROSINISH
Sorry I am not perfect!