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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: paulsue38 on Tuesday 25 June 19 10:15 BST (UK)
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My Grandfather William Thomas Evans b Liverpool 1886 apparently served in WW1 with the Gordon Highlanders. He was private 9273 1st Battalion. He lost his arm in conflict and eventually died in Liverpool in 1931. The information came from the regiment museum. My question is why was he in this regiment? Was this part of the Liverpool Scottish regiment?
Best wishes
Paul
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My grandfather was from Argyll yet served in the 10th Battalion of the Black Watch , which was raised in Perth. My guess is that he enlisted in the Argylls but was transferred to the Black watch to make up numbers after suffering heavy casualties. Apparently this was quite common in WW1 and often lead to soldiers serving in unlikely regiments.
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William attested Jan. 1st. 1904. So do you know where he was living at that time?
It's also worth remembering that Regiments had traditional recruiting grounds outside of their County.
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I lost 2 relatives in WW1 - both were from Somerset.
Stanley Claude Garrad was in the 3rd Bn. Worcestershire Regiment when he died at Arras.
Reginald Arthur Crocker was in the 13 Bn. Welsh Regiment when he died at Cambrai.
Soldiers were often moved, or enlisted, in unfamiliar regiments to make up losses.
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William attested Jan. 1st. 1904. So do you know where he was living at that time?
It's also worth remembering that Regiments had traditional recruiting grounds outside of their County.
Thanks for the information I didn't know this. Where does this information come from? He lived in Liverpool all his life. In the 1901 census he is listed as a joiner at 16. It is possible that in 1903 who was a joiner in the Royal Navy? By the 1911 census he is listed as a Ships Steward as is his father Thomas. In the 1911 census he is living at 190 Breck Road Liverpool. He died on 26th May 1931 at 16 Nansen Grove, Walton Liverpool.
Is it possible that he was in the Territorial Army?
Thanks for you help.
Paul
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His enlistment came from the Silver War Badge records on Ancestry:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nyw/
He wasn't TF. He would have joined a local Regt. in Liverpool as he would have had to attended regular training sessions if he was.
A common route was to join for 6 under the Colours & 6 on reserve.
So joining in 1904 he would have been out by 1910. Being on reserve would have meant he could be recalled at any time during that 6 year period.
Up to early 1916 & 12 year man was considered "time served" & had the right to a discharged irrespective of war.
When conscription was brought in that year the law was changed so that men like him could be retained for the duration. Unfortunately it cost him an arm.
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His enlistment came from the Silver War Badge records on Ancestry:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nyw/
He wasn't TF. He would have joined a local Regt. in Liverpool as he would have had to attended regular training sessions if he was.
A common route was to join for 6 under the Colours & 6 on reserve.
So joining in 1904 he would have been out by 1910. Being on reserve would have meant he could be recalled at any time during that 6 year period.
Up to early 1916 & 12 year man was considered "time served" & had the right to a discharged irrespective of war.
When conscription was brought in that year the law was changed so that men like him could be retained for the duration. Unfortunately it cost him an arm.
Thank you so much that really helps. It now makes so much sense. He eventually becomes a lift attendant in a Liverpool Bank possibly Martins. I did get his medal record from National Archives but could not fully understand it. I tried to upload it on here but the file size was too high.
Best wishes
Paul
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I take it you mean this one.
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Forgot to add he received the 14 Star + Clasp & Roses for entering a theatre of war during that year & the qualifying date is at the bottom.
This marked him out as a "Mons man" or an Old Contemptable as they liked to be called.
His other 2 are the British War & Victory Medals.
Also listed is his SWB.
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Yes it looks very similar although the one I got from National archives had 6 grids attached in a PDF.
Did he get the Mons star? Is there any way of finding his medical records from his injuries?
Best wishes
Paul
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The 14 Star was commonly called the Mons Star.
His medical records would have been with his service/pension records which don't appear to exist.
This his Pension ledger on Fold3 but I don't a sub for that.
It doesn't look like from the sample that it gives that info.
Did the museum tell you he lost an arm or has it come from somewhere else?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nyx/
All I can find is this:
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The 14 Star was commonly called the Mons Star.
His medical records would have been with his service/pension records which don't appear to exist.
This his Pension ledger on Fold3 but I don't a sub for that.
It doesn't look like from the sample that it gives that info.
Did the museum tell you he lost an arm or has it come from somewhere else?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nyx/
All I can find is this:
[/quote
He died when my mum was three in 1931 here is a picture of him playing golf with one arm! Thank you so much for your help you have been brilliant. I can now tell my children something about him.
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Your man joined the Gordon Highlanders as a full time, regular soldier.
The Liverpool Scottish was a Territorial, part-time battalion of the King’s Liverpool Regiment.
There was no connection between the two. Prewar volunteers could choose the regiment they wished to serve in, broadly speaking.
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As an update I did find a record on Find My Past of William going into the 51st Field Ambulance for treatment (not the loss of his arm) on 6th Feb 1916. Is there a way of finding out were he was at this time?
In addition, in 1915 at some point he seems to switch from the Gordon to the Seaforth Highlanders, does anyone know why this would be?
Best wishes
Paul
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On the 6th. Feb. 1916 they were on the move from Reningelst (Belgium) to Serques (France).
Probably something foot related.
Will look at the other date but it is better if we can see what you're looking at.
He may have been seconded for a short time to the Seaforths, this often happened between Battalions.
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Forces War Records have the 51/FA medical record for William:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nz0/
You'll have to pay & it probably won't tell you much.
Update:
The 51/FA were at Reningelst on the 6th. Feb. having taken over from the 7/FA that day so he was probably in before the 6th. but will only appear on the 51/FA list from the day they took over.
The 7/FA was in the 3rd. Division, 7th. Brigade the same as the 1/Gordons & would have gone to Serques with them leaving William behind until well enough to join them.