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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Topic started by: PatsyAnnKelly on Friday 28 June 19 23:35 BST (UK)
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Hello
I wonder if anyone has any information relating to Annie Giblin born London/Kent apps 1897. She and her older sister Julia born 1895 appx and younger brother Frederick were sent to Canada as British Home Children in 1903. They were placed in St Patrick's RC Orphanage in Prince Albert Saskatchewan under the care of Father Brubeck.Julia became a nun in Moose Jaw and died there in 1970. Frederick Charles joined the CEF in WW1 and died in the 1960s in British Columbia.
Her mother was a Margaret Giblin born Queenstown Cork nee Flynn. Her birth father ( parents were unmarried as mother and her husband Charles Giblin were married but separated) was a George King.
I have completed my research on Julia and Frederick but cannot find Annie after the 1916 Census. The only information I have been able to obtain from Julia's convent which had Annie listed as next of kin was that she was married and living in Winnipeg under the name Welier/Weller. Later she updated the name to Heppenstall so I assume she remarried.
I cannot find any records of either of those marriages nor any death records relating to her, her first husband Welier or any Heppenstall I can definitely link to her.
She left behind Sisters, brothers and mother in Woolwich when she was sent to Canada. I believe her birth father travelled to Winnipeg at some point and found work there.
Any help or advice would be very gratefully received.
Thank you
PatsyAnn
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Hi PatsyAnn
Could you tell us the time frames/year for when the records said her name was WEILER or WELLER and for when it was HEPPENSTALL?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Have you checked out the Anna Weller (widow) who was living at 297 Sackville Street Winnipeg Manitoba on the 1953 Canada Voters List ?
Sandra
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Winnipeg Free Press has a death notice for a John Heppenstall - wife Annie Heppenstall. He died 4 June 1953 and is buried in Brookside Cemetery. His address had been 425 Lipton Street.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/111544441/john-heppenstall
Possible?
RK
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Perhaps not..
Could be John and Annie Heppenstall here in 1926. Census says Annie was born in Manitoba.
http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=census1926&op=img&id=e011232161
RK
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Manitoba marriage index has a marriage for John Heppenstall to Annie Taylor. So, not yours...
BUT, there is also a marriage for Stanley P Heppenstall to Margaret M Giblin??? ???
RK
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And that marriage:
Margaret M Giblin and Stanley P Heppenstall
2 Nov 1919
Brandon,MB
Two names that (to me) are quite unusual.
Not that I can see Stan in 1921.....
Plus-I got a little confused with the OP's post.
PatsyAnn-could you tell us the surname that the children had at birth?
Maureen
Sorry,RK-posting it anyway. :) ;)
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Another Mrs Anna Weller - (widow) 1008 Erin Street Winnipeg - Canada Voters List - 1957 ?
Sandra
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Stanley Heppenstall's obit from 1967 doesn't mention any family members :'(
RK
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In 1953 Electors list :
425 Lipton Street, Winnipeg
Harry HEPPENSTALL, Boilermaker
Mrs Annie HEPPENSTALL
Winnipeg Free Press has a death notice for a John Heppenstall - wife Annie Heppenstall. He died 4 June 1953 and is buried in Brookside Cemetery. His address had been 425 Lipton Street.
I too wondered re: the STanley HEPPENSTALL / Margaret GIBLIN marriage:
This:
"STANLEY HEPPENSTALL On December 22, 1967 at Brandon, Manitoba, Stanley Heppenstall, aged 73 years. Mr. Heppenstall is survived by one son, John Heppenstall, one daughter C...R. Bruce (Peggy) two brothers Alfred and Wil- fred, seven grandchildren. Funeral service will be held Wednesday at p.m. -in Kerr's Funeral Chapel 120 Adelaide St. Interment' in Brookside Cemetery. Friends may call at the Funeral Chapel, Tuesday evening 7 to 9 p.m. "
and:
1921 CENSUS
Roomer: Stanley Hepinstall 22, married, b Manitoba, German Parents
In Marquette, Manitoba (as HEPIMTALL) but no wife with him.
PatsyAnn, you say you have Annie in the 1916 Census? I can see her in 1906 with Julia, but where was she exactly in 1916?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Glad you found an obit for Stanley with some family information :) I just read the short one from Dec 25...should have read the one from Dec 26!!
Here is Julia in a convent in Prince Albert in 1926...I know PatsyAnn said she is done researching Julia, but the original post says Julia became a nun in Moose Jaw. Just thought I would post the link to Julia in 1926 - in case PatsyAnn doesn't have it.
http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=census1926&op=img&id=e011243985
RK
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I think I am about to confuse everyone....
There is an obituary in the Winnipeg Free Press 1978 - for a Margaret (Peggy) Weber. She died March 3 1976 aged 75. Wife of Edward Weber.
Survived by son John Heppenstall, wife Jean; daughter Peggy Bruce, husband Colin; stepdaughters Lil and Elma, stepsons Nelson, Larry and Lloyd.
This must be the Margaret Giblin who married Stanley Heppenstall in 1919. Looks like she and Stanley divorced and she married Edward Weber.
Could Weller be Weber?
RK
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Peggy Bruce's obituary from 1978... says she is Margaret Anna (Peggy) Bruce. She died July 28 1978. She was 49. Wife of Colin. She is survived by 2 sons and 2 daughters (named in the obit); brother John Heppenstall of West St. Paul; 2 uncles - Alf Heppenstall of Vancouver and Wilfred Heppenstall of Winnipeg. She was predeceased by her father Stanley in 1967 and mother Margaret in 1976 and stepfather Edward Weber in 1976.
RK
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Edward Weber died May 25, 1976. His obit says his first wife Caroline died in 1940 (could be 1948 - hard to read).
RK
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Found Caroline's obit under Lina Weber...she died in 1940.
IF (and this is a big "if") your Annie is actually Margaret Anna (like daughter Peggy...and her mother was Margaret Flynn) Giblin...who married Stanley Heppenstall, then married Edward Weber...the marriage to Edward was after 1940.
RK
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Stanley and Margaret Heppinstall...1926 in Winnipeg (bottom of the page). Margaret says she was born in Ireland and her parents were Irish. She says she came to Canada in 1906.
http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=census1926&op=img&id=e011231902
RK
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Looks good, well done chaps. ........ ;)
FIND A GRAVE
Brookside Cemetery Winnipeg Great Winnipeg Manitoba.
Edward 25 May 1976 and Margaret Weber
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/111313841/edward-weber
Margaret 3 March 1976
Sandra
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/111313856/margaret-weber
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Hopefully PatsyAnn can find a birth certificate for "Annie". The marriage cert for Stanley Heppenstall and Margaret Giblin would be useful to have as well.
I wonder if there is an obituary for Frederick Charles? He died in White Rock BC on Aug 31 1962. Perhaps an obit would mention his surviving sisters?
http://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/39d9fe64-3281-47ce-966a-deb2c7988880
Is there an obituary for Julia?
RK
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Nothing on Frederick Charles Giblin death notice/obit
Surrey Leader Surrey, British Columbia, Canada 6 Sep 1962, Thu - Page 6
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/33354768/frederick_charles_giblin/
Sandra
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Great work,RK!!!
Given the surnames we were given by PatsyAnn it looks very good to me. :)
Moxx
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IF (and this is a big "if") your Annie is actually Margaret Anna (like daughter Peggy...and her mother was Margaret Flynn) Giblin...who married Stanley Heppenstall, then married Edward Weber...the marriage to Edward was after 1940.
RK
Patsy Ann, I guess you must have all the following gathered in your research, but I'm posting this for us all because the Stanley HEPPENSTALL/ Margaret GIBLIN marriage in Canada was/is so compelling given the relatively uncommon surnames in combination!
The mother, Margaret GIBLIN of Julia, Frederick & Annie - appears to have had another daughter, Mary Margaret who stopped in the UK.....
Frederick Charles GIBLIN (b 15 Aug 1892 Woolwich, d 31 Aug 1962 BC), having returned to the UK in 1916 with the CEF, married there after the war, in Yorkshire 1919 to Ann Ellen SCOTT.
His NOK on his CEF record was at first his sister Julia (as Sister Gerardina of Convent of Sion, Prince Albert, Sask) then his mother, Mrs M GIBLEN of 2 Harden Street, Woolwich.
In 1916, after he arrived in England with the CEF, his $20 monthly pay as from 1 April 1917, was listed as Payable to : Mother: Mrs M GIBLEN of 2 Harden Street, Woolwich. This stopped as from 1 May 1919 (probably from when he married Ann Ellen Scott).
Margaret GIBLIN the mother, was at 3 (Lower) Harden Street, Woolwich, Kent address in 1911:
Head: William BERRY 30, Labourer at Cable Works, b Kent. Married 4 yrs to:
Wife: Margaret BERRY 28, b Co. Cork, Ireland, birthed 2 children, both are living
Son: William 2½yrs
Son: Frederick 4mths
Boarder: Margaret GIBLIN 50, widow, b County Cork, Ireland
Plus 2 other boarders.
The mother's maiden name of both children William & Frederick's is: GIBLIN
William Henry BERRY & Mary Margaret GIBLIN married 1907 Woolwich.
When Frederick died 1962, wife Ann Ellen informed on his 1962 death certificate, that he was born in Prince Albert Sask, and that his mother (no name)was English.
Still asking, where Annie was in 1916? And the year/time-frame you have her saying her name is HEPPENSTALL and then saying WELLER?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Edward Weber died May 25, 1976. His obit says his first wife Caroline died in 1940 (could be 1948 - hard to read).
RK
Posting just for reference...................it was as you said 1940.
The Winnipeg Tribune Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada 11 May 1940, Sat - Page 32
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/33384973/mrs_lina_weber/
Sandra
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Hello Again Everyone
Firstly may I thank you all for your wonderful help . I have not been home for a couple of days so haven't filled in the blanks some of my friends have asked for. In particular I have been asked about the background, which I will set out briefly here.
My husband's grandmother (Nanny) was Kate Giblin and she was one of 4 children born to Margaret ( nee Flyn) and Charles Giblin, a serving English soldier, in Queenstown, Cork Ireland. The others were, Mary Margaret, Adelaide and Charles Henry ( who was killed in WWI). Nanny was a woman of mystery who refused to speak of her childhood. Unsurprisingly as it turned out. The Giblin family settled in Woolwich but there seems to have been some sort of family breakdown around 1889/1890 whilst Charles was serving in the Army. I have all his military papers and he seemed to go AWOL on at least one occasion which seemed to coincide with his wife Margaret taking up with a George King.
Nanny and her younger sister were placed in a Catholic Orphanage , Sisters of Nazareth,in Essex far away from family in June 1889 and Adelaide had died of Scrofula in April 1891. Kate aged 7 was not released home until July 1891. No wonder she didn't talk of her childhood!
I have as indicated, completed all my research here in the U.K. and have tracked them through the various censuses and BMD records and have a real picture of what happened in this dysfunctional family. Thanks to you who have also looked those up again for me. The family remained in Woolwich with Margaret FlynnGiblin living at 3 Hardun Street with Nanny and her family until her death. George King seems to have taken himself off to Canada, Winnipeg I believe.
Margaret and George King had at least two children for certain and probably two more who died. I have obtained the birth Certificate of Julia and it states she was Julia King born Bexley Kent 1891 to George King and Margaret King formerly Flynn! Margaret was still married to Charles Giblin, they never divorced and he had not died. I met Julia myself when she visited UK. In 1968 but the family had been given a fairy story that she had been engaged, fiancée was killed in WW1 and so she left England to become a nun in Canada where she became Mother Superior. All totally untrue. So her history was never discussed.
I have no birth cert for Annie as the name Annie King was too common and there were no Annie Giblins. She appears on the 1901 census in West Ham London with George and Margaret King as Annie King daughter aged 6. Kate ( Nanny) was with them and the rest of the Giblin/Kings were with another King family.
Interestingly the youngest of the 3 King/Giblin children, Charles Frederick GIBLIN gives his father as Charles Giblin decd on his marriage certificate when he married Annie Ellen Scott in York in May 1919.
I have his military records and was pleased to see that he was reunited with his Mother whilst serving in Europe with the CEF. I been able to track him right through to his death and that of his wife, his daughter's marriage and the still birth of her son in Port Alberini BC thanks to the Canadian online records.
What I do not know is if he and his wife who was several years older had any other children in Canada, although I have the death notifications of them and only the daughter, Mary Elizabeth was mentioned. Mary Elizabeth Giblin married a John William Wall who died in Nov 1984 Victoria BC.
I am going to break off here as this is a large, and possibly indigestible chunk of data to swallow.
I would add as I am researching from the UK I not been able to access the Canadian Voters Register. I have followed up through Veterans Arrairs a John Heppenstall mentioned by some responders and his wife was indeed Annie Taylor . My hopes have long been pinned on Stanley Heppenstall as I thought, like responders here, that it was possible had chosen to call herself Margaret Mary, similar names to the sister left behind in London. But I have no evidence to be sure.
Will continue
Thanks again
PatsyAnn
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Just another note..... Fraderick and Ann Giblin had a daughter Mary or Elizabeth Mary/Mary Elizabeth Giblin born about 1920. There is a birth at Prestwich - Giblin?Scott registered december 1919
Mary E Giblin - mothers maiden surname Scott - Prestwich 8d 576
Mary married John William Ward in 4 October 1940
http://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/5d294205-1a07-4dd1-8259-fde2fa6a9589
Canada Voters Lists 1953 - John W Wall (Oxford Motors) and Mary Wall (housewife) 2862 Twenty-Fifth Avenue East- Vancouver.
John William Ward died 18 November 1984 Victoria BC.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FL1V-88W
Believe Mary Elizabeth Gilpin passed away 6 September 2005 - New Westminster, British Columbia.
Couple may have a living daughter (as per ancestry tree) They also had a son John William Wall born 7 June 1944 and died 9 June 1944 - Port Alberni, British Columbia.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK6G-V83K
Sandra
written so posted..........
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There is also social media posting which I can't see fully but this refers to George Wall who would be the father of John William Wall - may be the grand daughter who has the anc tree.............so two ways to contact this lady for info - sounds like an author...........
https://es-la.facebook.com/pg/wait2write/posts/
Sandra
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Hello Again
Continuation
My apologies I must clarify that I did not find Annie on the 1916 Canadian census . She was born appx 1895 according to 1901 English census so would have been around 21 by then.
Julia and Annie arrived in Canada under the name Giblin in May 1903.i have no details re journey, ship etc. Frederick Charles arrived in October 1903 on the ship Bavarian from Liverpool to Quebec. He was sent by the Catholic Emigration Society as I imagine his sisters were ( no longer in existence) to Prince Albert. All 3 children were placed in St Patrick's Orphanage in Prince Albert under the care of Father Brubeck. I understand the Orphanage burned down and so there are no surviving records.
I contacted the convent of The Sisters of Sion when I started this research 20 years ago ( before giving us as no accessible records here in U.K. as there are now). I restarted this year she a family bereavement motivated me.
The convent were helpful at the time albeit much of the info supplied was inaccurate, probably because it relied on Julia remembering/ knowing the circumstances of her arrival in Canada.
I was told that Julia had been sent from the Orphanage in Prince Albert to the convent in Moose Jaw 'to help out" but had stayed. They were unable to supply me with clear details of next of kin but did send me a form dated 1965 in which she gave her date of birth as 15/11/1895 when her birth cert shows she was born 14/11/1891. The form stated mother Margaret Giblin father George King. She entered the convent in 1910. Re next of kin it is typed "sister Mrs E Welier, 1393 Lincoln Avenue, Winnipeg 3 " beneath that in handwriting it says" a second form has Mrs Heppenstall " same address.
I have taken that to mean that her sister was first a Welier and then a Heppenstall but it could be that the form mentioned ( no longer in existence)was an earlier form and showed a Heppenstall name which could bring the Stanley Heppenstall theory into focus. I don't know where the E Welier came from perhaps husband's initial. Haven't found any Welier yet.
The convent told me that George King went to Canada too, details unknown, to find work in Winnipeg.
Far from becoming Mother Superior as family legend had it, Julia remained a lay sister ( Sister Gerardina) with mainly domestic type duties.
Julia died in 1970. A death notice in Moose Jaw Times Herald 23/5/1970 which the convent sent me states that she died 21/11/1970 aged 78 which would have been her correct age. The convent also sent me a photocopy from the same paper, undated but later than the one above, which gives notice of her funeral at St Joseph's RC Church Moose Jaw. Then same paper a later notice which details the celebrant and burial place. It also says "Sister Julia is survived by " and the convent have highlighted it before copying and so it is completely black and illegible! The best clue obliterated.
The convent say they now have no other info to give me. So I may have to contact the Moose Jaw Times Herald and ask for their help. Or even the undertakers who were W.J.Jones and son. I have photos of Julia and her grave.
I was ubsuccessful in obtaining info from the Catholic society/charity in England who may hold records relating to my three British Home Children ,as they do not provide such information because they are overwhelmed by requests relating to adoptees trying to find birth parents so historical research is not possible for such a small outfit.
I agree with you all about Stanley and Margaret Mary. That had been my own thoughts too but how to prove it?
Thanks for all the advice so far. I appreciate it very much
PatsyAnn
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So the E Welier - is definitely Edward Weber (wife Margaret Weber) who lived at 1393 Lincoln Avenue, Winnipeg North according to Canada Voters Lists.
Sandra
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Thank you Sandra re the Wall/Scott/Giblin info. Thanks to Brill Canadian records and those in the U.K. I had all that except for the possibility that Mary Elizabeth Wall and husband John William Wall may have had another child after their first son sadly died at a few days old. I am not in Facebook but will try and follow that up via Ancestry ( which my sister is on) or MyHeritage which I am on.
Both Julia and Annie sent holy cards with messages on the back to Nanny in the early 1920s which we only found this year when dealing with another family death. They did not have addresses on and were each signed either Julia or Annie. The latter may or may not mean anything as she could have been Margaret in Canada and Annie to her sister in England.
PatsyAnn
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There is a RAOGK volunteer for Winnipeg Manitoba - worth an email to see if she could access the marriage certificate for Stanley Heppenstall and Margaret Giblin ???
https://raogk.org/lookups/region/manitoba/
Sandra
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Wow Sandra you seem to have cracked it! I had always worked under the misapprehension that she was Welier ( as convent said) first and then Heppenstall second. Even considering whether Welier had died in WW1. Together Ambly, RunKitty and you have solved it. Thank you!
One error I made in earlier post was that Margaret Giblin lived with Nanny until her death. That was inaccurate she lived with Mary Margaret Giblin Berry ( Aunty Mary Berry) and her family a few doors away from her daughter Kate Giblin Kelly, Nanny in Woolwich.
What a tangled web it has been.
A little more back story is that my husband's sister wanted to find out about her Nanny ( Kate Giblin Kelly) and I promised her I would try but at that time 20 years ago,I couldn't access the Irish records as we can now so could find little about her, only knowing that she was born in Ireland.
My sister in law died last year and I decided I would try again to fulfill my promise to her. Now so much more is available online and the Canadian records are also brilliant that I quickly uncovered Nanny's sad family history including tracing down Julia and Frederick in Canada but Annie has proved elusive. Until now. Now I need to follow through in the children and grandchildren from her marriage to Stanley.
Your help has been invaluable. What stars.
PatsyAnn
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So the E Welier - is definitely Edward Weber (wife Margaret Weber) who lived at 1393 Lincoln Avenue, Winnipeg North according to Canada Voters Lists.
Sandra
Yes - Both Margaret and Edward Weber's obits from 1976 say their address was 1393 Lincoln Avenue.
RK
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You little star RK. ;)
Canada Voters List 1972 - shows a John Heppenstall (caretaker) and Jean Heppenstall (housewife) - BX20 - GR 3 - R.R. 1 Wpg.
Sandra
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This could be the John Heppenstall (with a wife Jean) - 1930 - 1998
Winnipeg Free Press on Aug 25, 2008
https://passages.winnipegfreepress.com/passage-details/id-139719/HEPPENSTALL_JOHN
Winnipeg Free Press on Aug 25, 2007
https://passages.winnipegfreepress.com/passage-details/id-124028/HEPPENSTALL_JOHN
Sandra
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I think you are correct Sandra. Both Margaret/Annie's children are deceased. Hopefully PeggyAnn can contact some of their descendants for more information.
RK
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Elma Weber Buth obituary from 2003. She is Margaret/Annie's step daughter. Daughter of Edward and Karline Weber. (looks like Edward's first wife went by Caroline/Karline/Lina etc...)
https://passages.winnipegfreepress.com/passage-details/id-75697/BUTH_ELMA
RK
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Nelson Weber (Webber in the obit) died 22 May 1981 in Winnipeg. Obit in the Winnipeg Free Press. He is survived by his wife, and daughter...S Zemek of Winnipeg. Predeceased by daughter Marilyn Jan 18 1980 in Wenatchee, Washington. Survived by siblings Larry of Kelowna BC, Lloyd of Vancouver, Lil Howard of Vancouver and Elma Buth of Winnipeg. Interment Brookside Cemetery.
RK
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Wow, what a great result , RK & Sandra! Fantastic ;D
Here's another wee bit of your puzzle PastyAnn - the girls' arrival in Canada:
SS TUNISIAN, sailing out of Liverpool 7 May 1903
Julia SIBLING 11
Annie SIBLING 5
Destination: Prince Albert
Arrived 15 May 1903 Montreal.
It's page 13 on the manifest set:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01nzd/
The corresponding Outward manifest from UK, lists them as Julia (11) and Annie (5) Gilling or it could well be Gibling - the handwriting is such it could be taken as Gibbing or Gilling or Gibling!
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thank you Ambly
I am sure that it is them. The info I do have comes from data in a book on St Patricks Orphanage in Prince Albert which was supplied by the local history society there and gives their correct surnames.
Thanks for everything
PatsyAnn
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1901 census Rendfall Road Canning Town West Ham.
RG13 Piece 1580 Folio 109 Page 56
George King 50 born Rochester Kent. Filters Labourer.
Margaret King 46 born Cork Ireland.
Kate King 16 born Cork ireland.
Julia King 9 born melling Kent.
Annie King 6 born Woolwich london.
George King 1 month
Is this the George King who it is thought went to Canada ?
Sandra
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or 1891 8 Williams Terrace East Wickham, East Wickham, Kent.
George King 40 born Rochester Kent. Hydraulic Cranesman.
Margaret King 35 born Queens Town Ireland.
Mary King 9 bor Queens Town Ireland.
Rosa King 5 born Woolwich, Kent.
Charles King 4 born Athlone, Ireland.
Harry King 5 months born Belle Grove, Kent.
Julie Skull 58 Lodger.
Sandra
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Hi Sandra
No he is not. I have this census entry on my records from my research here. it is the right family but I believe from my search on FreeBMD here that baby George was one of the children who died in infancy. There is a record but I have not sent for it because the name is too common. Another of the children of Margaret and George also died but again I have not sent for the cert.
The nun from the Sisters of Sion who I was in touch with 20 years ago sent me photos and whatever info the convent had, some of it erroneous or misleading as I now see. But she told me that the children's father George King ( senior) went to Winnipeg Canada to find work. The suggestion was that he may have accompanied them as far as Prince Albert although I cannot be sure about that. I don't know when he left UK.That ties in with the mother Margaret Giblin then living with the Berry family of her married daughter in Woolwich.
Another puzzle is Frederick Charles's paternity. I cannot definitely trace his birth here but he has the middle name of Charles ( Margaret's legal husband was Charles Giblin) and on Frederick's marriage certificate here in England he gives that name as his father, not George King.
I wonder if George King separated from Margaret Giblin and she went back to her husband Charles and gave birth to Frederick. That doesn't explain why he went to Canada, although he went separately from Julia and Annie .
I am unable to find any of the descendants of John and Jean Heppenstall or Peggy Bruce through searching Family Search or MyHeritage and wonder if someone who may have found then could Private Message me please if that is permissible?
Thanks
PatsyAnn
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Have you got the age and details of the George King who went to Canada ?
Sandra
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Hi Sandra
He is the one on the censuses, the children's father, the cranesman. That is all I have. I have not researched him individually as the name is so common here that it would prove very expensive to ascertain exactly which one he was.
PatsyAnn
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Thats the one I was asking about not the 1 month old .........lol.............. ;)
Sandra
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Hi Sandra
On the 1891 census you posted you will see that Kate Giblin ( Nanny) and her younger sister Adelaide were missing, although the youngest Giblin Charles is with his mother and her new partner as is the oldest Giblin Girl Mary Margaret, now re-named King . Plus there is a new baby King. Kate and Adelaide had been placed in the Sisters of Nazareth Orphanage in Southend where Adelaide later died, and Charles,the real husband was being court martialled by the army for going AWOL. I would guess he went missing to try and sort out this awful mess.
PatsyAnne
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I realised that he was the one but all I have is the age or ages George gave on the various censuses. George junior died.
PatsyAnn
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There was a couple of entries for a George King of the correct age in Souris Manitoba who claims to have immigrated 1885/1886. (who knows if thats correct - immigration dates are quite often off)
Suppose he could have travelled backwards and forwards :-\
Sandra
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Could be him although he was on 1891 and 1901 censuses and youngest child. I am not minded to research him further because of his common name which would make proof difficult and I am more interested in Kate's half siblings than their father who might have caused major disruption to her life and that of her father and possibly even her Mother.
Thanks for the info though
PatsyAnn
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Death for Arthur Howard - husband of Lillian Webber (how the name is spelled on the death cert)
Sept 24 1989
http://search-collections.royalbcmuseum.bc.ca/Image/Genealogy/2da582b8-0db3-4f65-967d-f77e1fcb36f7
RK
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From findagrave...Lillian Weber Howard died in 2006
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/162002955/art-howard
RK
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Hi Everyone
Id just like to say a big thank you to all of you who have helped me find the elusive Annie AKA Margaret Giblin/Heppenstall/Weber. All I need to do now is find her descendants and try and trace those living. That is proving difficult.
I am so grateful
PatsyAnn
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This could be the John Heppenstall (with a wife Jean) - 1930 - 1998
Winnipeg Free Press on Aug 25, 2008
https://passages.winnipegfreepress.com/passage-details/id-139719/HEPPENSTALL_JOHN
Winnipeg Free Press on Aug 25, 2007
https://passages.winnipegfreepress.com/passage-details/id-124028/HEPPENSTALL_JOHN
Sandra
Found the obit from 1998...
It lists John's 3 daughters and their husbands - plus 5 grandchildren. Sadly, he was predeceased by an infant son (not named here).
I can PM you the names from John's obit - also from Peggy Bruce's obit.
RK
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Obituary for John Heppenstall's stepdaughter Wendy Darlene Chartrand - 2014
https://passages.winnipegfreepress.com/passage-details/id-215967/CHARTRAND_WENDY
RK
That link is a bit slow ... if you can't get it, try this one
https://www.genealogiequebec.com/necro/manitoba/winnipeg/the-winnipeg-free-press-mb/1503772/PENNER-Wendy-Darlene/avis-de-deces
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Thanks RunKitty I would appreciate if you would PM me.
:)
PatsyAnn
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Done :) :) :)
RK
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Thank you 😊😊😊
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Perhaps Margaret/Annie's step children's descendants would have some information about her as well?
I posted the link to Elma Weber Buth's obit earlier on the thread. As of the date of the obit (2003) 2 of her daughters were still living. She was predeceased by 6 children. All of Elma's children, grandchildren and great grandchildren are named in the obituary.
The Winnipeg Free Press site seems to be a bit slow to open today...maybe site maintenance?? If you are having trouble reading Elma's obit - let me know.
RK
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Nelson Weber's obituary mentions his daughter.
Her husband, Robin John Zemek died in 1967. He was in the RCAF.
http://b767ops.blogspot.com/2014/05/sim-training-sops-procedures-b757.html
https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/memorials/canadian-virtual-war-memorial/detail/4517808
RK
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Will do
Patsy
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Eleanor (Dohms) Webber (wife of Nelson Webber/Weber) - obituary in the Winnipeg Free Press.
She died Jan 3 2015. She was in her 96th year. She is survived by her daughter S Zemek of Surrey BC. Some grandchildren are also named. She was predeceased by her husband Nelson, her daughter Marilyn Iachini and son in law Robin Zemek.
You can probably find the full obituary online. :)
RK
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Nelson Weber/Webber's obituary says that his daughter Marilyn died in 1980 in Wenatchee, Washington. Now that we have her last name from her Mother's obituary...here is Marilyn on Findagrave
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/91935180
RK
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There is an obituary for Lillian Webber Howard in the Vancouver Sun on Sept 7 2006. I don't have access to it- but maybe someone here can find it for you. If not - you can try the Vancouver library.
RK
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Sandra I have been re-reading the info from everyone and on reply 23 you say that Mary Elizabeth and John William Wall may have had a surviving daughter as per Ancestry Tree. What did you mean as I cant find them Perhaps you could private message me again please
Thanks
PatsyAnn
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Looks like one of the two trees has been removed since I wrote that reply. The one that remains is Green/Flemming/Johnson - tree owner - tibeaudo. Fairly certain that the other tree belonged to the same person under the same name as reply 24. Interesting I was able to look at all the photographs on that link and cannot now so something changed.
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/lorraine-wait-6a838568?trk=public_profile_samename_mini-profile_title
Sandra
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Hi Sandra
Where was the tree please? That's what I don't understand. On Ancestry?
I sent a message through LinkedIn but got no reply. Perhaps she doesn't want to be contacted?
Thanks
PatsyAnn
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Quite possibly one tree was removed after your enquiry and the Facebook entry made more private. As the reply 23 said, it was an ancestry tree. The one that is still showing is explained above. Pretty sure it was the same person who owned both but left off the child’s name on the remaining one.
Sandra
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Hi Sandra
I have now found the tree and have messaged her via Ancestry. Fingers crossed she will reply. She is definitely the missing link, granddaughter of my Frederick Charles Giblin and a sibling of the child who died in 1944.
Thanks again for everything
PatsyAnn
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Hi again everyone
I am excited to report that the granddaughter of my Frederick Charles Giblin, British Home Child, brother of the Annie/Margaret Giblin/Heppenstall/Weber I have been looking for has made contact with me after Sandra pointed me in the right direction. I hope she will have photos etc from her grandfather which will help to make the names relate to human beings.
I am still trying to trace the grandchildren of Annie/Margaret with no success so far. Frederick's family in Vancouver do not seem to have kept in touch with Margaret's family in Winnipeg, but maybe we can join forces and track them down to put the final pieces into the jigsaw.
Thank you all for all the wonderful help and advice. You are all stars.
Best wishes
PatsyAnn
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Brilliant, thanks for the update, it is always appreciated.
Sandra
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Wonderful news!! :) :)
RK
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Wonder if John and Mary Elizabeth also had a son - there is a Canada Voters List 1972 - which would put John William Wall, Mary Elizabeth Wall and a Gordon Frederick Wall (parts driver) at 1757 Dorset Avenue Fraser Valley BC.
Sandra
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Hi Sandra yes, in total they had 5 children, one died at 2 days old in 1944 then 4 more of which 3 are still alive. Info from their daughter who I am now in contact with.
Thanks
PatsyAnn