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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: grizzly1 on Saturday 29 June 19 22:52 BST (UK)
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I have a Edward Burns married to Elizabeth Downey in Portarlington in 1936.
On their marriage cert it gives Edward's address as Portobello Barracks and his profession as 'soldier', his father is named as Patrick and his profession as 'Boilermaker'.
I hope to clarify Edwards birthplace through his parents as there is a family baptismal cert giving his name as Patrick Edward Burns, and baptismal place at St Patricks church New Jersey USA in 1902, his d.o.b is 30th May 1902, his parents are listed as Patrick and Mary Leonard...his sponsors seem to be his parents, so its possible they were newly arrived in the USA ?
Its possible that Patrick snr died in the USA and Mary returned to the family home of Co Clare and remarried.
I did come across a 1911 census form for a 'boilermaker' called Patrick Burns at 24 Ballart st Ormeau Co Down with a son called Edward aged 5, but his wifeis named Sarah, this Burns family seem to be missing from the 1901 census ? I wonder had the Family been in the USA/NewJersey at the time?
If I could get details from the Free state army records on Edwards enlistment I could possibly narrow down the search ?
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I hope to clarify Edwards birthplace through his parents as there is a family baptismal cert giving his name as Patrick Edward Burns, and baptismal place at St Patricks church New Jersey USA in 1902, his d.o.b is 30th May 1902, his parents are listed as Patrick and Mary Leonard...his sponsors seem to be his parents, so its possible they were newly arrived in the USA ?
Do you meant that the parents named on the baptism certificate were Patrick Burns and Mary Burns nee Leonard? And that the sponsors were Patrick Burns and Mary Burns?
Parents were not normally sponsors. Patrick Burns and Mary Burns may have been cousins or some other relatives.
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I did come across a 1911 census form for a 'boilermaker' called Patrick Burns at 24 Ballart st Ormeau Co Down with a son called Edward aged 5, but his wifeis named Sarah, this Burns family seem to be missing from the 1901 census ? I wonder had the Family been in the USA/NewJersey at the time?
The Edward who was aged 5 on 1911 census would have been born 1905/6.
This Edward was born in Belfast as were his 7 elder siblings aged 9-25 by 1911, so it looks like the family, or at least the mother, spent most of her married life in the city. If you couldn't find the family on 1901 census, the most obvious place to look is Scotland. They might have been away a wee trip.
Did you try variants of the surname? E.g. Burnes/s, Byrne.
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I did come across a 1911 census form for a 'boilermaker' called Patrick Burns at 24 Ballart st Ormeau Co Down with a son called Edward aged 5, but his wifeis named Sarah, this Burns family seem to be missing from the 1901 census ? I wonder had the Family been in the USA/NewJersey at the time?
This family was at House 55 Short Strand (Pottiger) Down for 1901 census. Patrick, aged 41, boilermaker in shipyard, Sarah, wife + 8 children. Daniel on 1911 is David and Mary is M. Ellen. I found them by searching for youngest child, James, aged 4.
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I hope to clarify Edwards birthplace through his parents as there is a family baptismal cert giving his name as Patrick Edward Burns, and baptismal place at St Patricks church New Jersey USA in 1902, his d.o.b is 30th May 1902, his parents are listed as Patrick and Mary Leonard...his sponsors seem to be his parents, so its possible they were newly arrived in the USA ?
Do you meant that the parents named on the baptism certificate were Patrick Burns and Mary Burns nee Leonard? And that the sponsors were Patrick Burns and Mary Burns?
Parents were not normally sponsors. Patrick Burns and Mary Burns may have been cousins or some other relatives.
The cause of the confusion on my part was that the entry for him on the Baptismal cert state's Parents as 'Patrick and Mary Leonard'..opposed to what I would have been expecting on a 'Birth Cert' eg Patrick Burn's and Mary 'maiden name' Leonard.
I thought to perhaps they may have had a different process in the U.S. at the time ?
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Hello,
What is the connection to County Clare that you mention for Mary Leonard Burns?
Heywood
Added
Was the baptism in Jersey City?
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The cause of the confusion on my part was that the entry for him on the Baptismal cert state's Parents as 'Patrick and Mary Leonard'..opposed to what I would have been expecting on a 'Birth Cert' eg Patrick Burn's and Mary 'maiden name' Leonard.
I thought to perhaps they may have had a different process in the U.S. at the time ?
That was common practice in Catholic baptism registers. If Latin was used in the register "conj", abbreviation for the Latin word for married couple may have been written after parents' names.
A careless transcriber of an Irish Catholic baptism register misunderstood the format and incorrectly transcribed all children with their mothers' maiden names, making it seem that every child in the parish was illegitimate. :o
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I noticed that "adult" was written in the age column on Edward's marriage certificate. Do you have a source which gives his age ?
I also noticed that "deceased" wasn't written beside his father's name on marriage certificate, so Patrick may have been alive in 1936. N.B. Information about fathers on marriage certificates wasn't always accurate or complete.
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Have you checked U.S. census for the Burns family in New Jersey? 1900-1940 are available , I think.
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Why not post Links to things being referred to? It helps!
e.g.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Ormeau/Ballarat_Street/210334/
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I did come across a 1911 census form for a 'boilermaker' called Patrick Burns at 24 Ballart st Ormeau Co Down with a son called Edward aged 5, but his wife is named Sarah, this Burns family seem to be missing from the 1901 census ?
Patrick Burns & family in the 1901 Irish census.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Pottinger/Short_Strand/1215498/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000713766/
KG
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Hello,
What is the connection to County Clare that you mention for Mary Leonard Burns?
Heywood
Added
Was the baptism in Jersey City?
There is a 'family story' that Patrick died and Mary returned to Co Clare (family home)and remarried this led to her son later leaving home to join Free State army, I do have a record of him marrying in 1936 and his profession as soldier and Portobello barracks as his 'residence' so that would tie in...I did find a marriage in 1902 for a Mary Burns but on this she is a 'spinster' and there is no sign of Patrick Edward ?
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I hope to clarify Edwards birthplace through his parents as there is a family baptismal cert giving his name as Patrick Edward Burns, and baptismal place at St Patricks church New Jersey USA in 1902, his d.o.b is 30th May 1902, his parents are listed as Patrick and Mary Leonard...his sponsors seem to be his parents, so its possible they were newly arrived in the USA ?
Do you mean that you have located this record while searching?
Or did you locate within the family?
Noting the marraige was in a Catholic Church, and he was not from the parish, did you check with the church did they have a record of his letters of freedom or a reference to his baptism?
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I hope to clarify Edwards birthplace through his parents as there is a family baptismal cert giving his name as Patrick Edward Burns, and baptismal place at St Patricks church New Jersey USA in 1902, his d.o.b is 30th May 1902, his parents are listed as Patrick and Mary Leonard...his sponsors seem to be his Uncle and Aunt Patrick and Mary Leonard, so its possible they were newly arrived in the USA ?
Do you meant that the parents named on the baptism certificate were Patrick Burns and Mary Burns nee Leonard? And that the sponsors were Patrick Burns and Mary Burns?
Parents were not normally sponsors. Patrick Burns and Mary Burns may have been cousins or some other relatives.
edited above ...sponsors Patrick and Mary Leonard.
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Sorry ???
Are his parents Patrick Burns and Mary Leonard Burns and then his sponsors are Patrick and Mary Leonard - just to get it right. :)
I did ask before - where is the St Patrick’s church in NJ, you refer to?
It might help find people in censuses.
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coincidence
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FCVH-K8H
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Sorry ???
Are his parents Patrick Burns and Mary Leonard Burns and then his sponsors are Patrick and Mary Leonard - just to get it right. :)
I did ask before - where is the St Patrick’s church in NJ, you refer to?
It might help find people in censuses.
Yes Heywood, I was misinformed regs the 'sponsors', it was the way the Baptismal cert was worded, it shows Patrick Edward Burns.
Child of Patrick and Mary Leonard.
Sponsors Patrick Leonard and Mary Leonard.
St Patricks Church
Jersey 4.
N.J.
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coincidence
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FCVH-K8H
I seen that Dathai, Its another piece of the jigsaw, im basically waiting for info back from the Irish Military archives in order to confirm his parents and his birthplace, so keep my fingers crossed for the time been that they match up to the NJ Baptismal cert.