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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Jang on Tuesday 02 July 19 22:45 BST (UK)
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This house in Knocknagranshy, Limerick, is described in the 1911 census as having stone walls, a slate, iron or tile roof, with 7-9 rooms, and 7 windows in the front of the house.
Can anyone tell me how old it might be?
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Have you got a google maps link to it?
If you have the exact spot you could see if it's on the older maps on http://map.geohive.ie/mapviewer.html
You could also look for it on Griffith's Valuation and the Tithe Applotment books, difficult to know if it's the same building of course.
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Thanks for the link. Not sure how to use GeoHive but I managed to find the house. How do I tell the date?
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Knocknagranshy doesn't make the list on the built heritage survey.
http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=search&county=LC&method=quick
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Thanks for the link. Not sure how to use GeoHive but I managed to find the house. How do I tell the date?
See Base Information and mapping, open that and there are some old maps on the drop down list they are dated, see if the house is on any of them.
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Thanks, that's brilliant! It doesn't show up on either of the old maps so that narrows down the time frame.
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Is it on the 25" that goes up to 1913 but starts 1888, so if it's in 1911 it should in theory be on than, of course it's a fairly wide time frame.
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Yes, that's the map. I checked Griffiths - it wasn't there then.
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It's also on the 1901 census.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000981809/
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002723999/
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Thanks for the reminder about 1901 - I'd forgotten the description showed the same house. :-)
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So it was built sometime between 1853 (Griffiths) and 1901 (census). Is there any other way of narrowing the date down even more?
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Looks as if it's been extended at some time going by the chimney stacks & windows.
Skoosh.
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Where were the family living when the children were born?
https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/irish-records-what-is-available/property-records
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Skoosh, it's quite possible it was extended.
Heywood, thanks for the site - a great reference.
The children of Anne Lane (nee Keating) were born in Kilcurley and Ballycahane between 1864 and 1886.
The children of Johanna Keating (nee Murnane) were born in Gurrane between 1881 and 1891.
Anne and Johanna were both children of Edmund Keating who died in Gurrane in 1885.
Edmund's uncle, Jeffrey Keating, died in Knocknagranshy in 1870. His last remaining child, Ellen Keating, died there in 1895.
By 1901 the Lane family were occupying the main house. Johanna and family occupied one of the smaller ones. (According to a family story, her husband, James, had been disinherited because he married beneath him. He died at Knocknagranshy in 1897.)
So the question is, when was the house built and by whom?
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Why not email a local Estate Agent?
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I did :-) but didn't receive a reply. :-(
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Google map link http://www.rootschat.com/links/01o02/
You can see it's build from red brick, so when did they start using brick to build houses?
See where the plaster has fallen away under the bottom window on the left.
If the window frames are original than the sash windows are also a clue, they aren't broken up into small panes but I think they may have been replaced same time as the front door.
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Well spotted! It seems bricks were used to build houses in the 17th century. Yes, I think you're right about the windows.
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Sunshine windows came in after 1900 with panes getting progressively larger to 1 over 1 on sash frames. The house presumably faces south for the light? and the eastward extension has been built down-hill, something that wouldn't happen if it was built at the same time.
Skoosh.
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Thanks Skoosh, that helps. So changes were made to the original house after 1900.
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@ Jang, the extension could pre-date 1900 & the whole re-glazed some time after that?
Skoosh.
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Ah, of course … !
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Brickwork under window on the left could be English Bond.
I think windows are replacements - could have originally been sash with two panes above and two below, or a variation.
Extension on the right. Location of chimneys looks a bit odd though placement could relate to the extension.
Possibly Victorian era.
If there is a local history group in the area they may have information about the house.
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Well spotted! It seems bricks were used to build houses in the 17th century. Yes, I think you're right about the windows.
Trying to see when a house would have been built of brick in rural Ireland, probably 19th century, local materials were easier to use.
The size of the brick is also a dating tool.
I would think these bricks are 19th century machine made bricks, usually from a local brick works but your not to far from Limerick here which was a port.
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Many had red brick around doors and windows
e.g https://www.123rf.com/photo_2871853_old-irish-farmhouse-dating-to-19th-century.html
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The more I try to zoom in on each side of the house, I think there is also stone as well, it's like the section with the windows are brick from top to bottom but each side there is stone at the base. The gable end on the left is worth a look.
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Hi,
Is this the place?
Grange Hill ?
https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/farm-property/munster-farm-sales/qatar-racing-buys-second-million-euro-farm-in-county-limerick-37502581.html
Andrew
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from:- http://www.limerickdioceseheritage.org/Manister/textManister.htm (http://www.limerickdioceseheritage.org/Manister/textManister.htm)
Holy Wells
Danaher records the presence of a well, in the townland of Knocknagranshee, called Toberlaghteen. This well is on the lands of Martin Molony. No devotions have taken place here in a number of years and the well has dried up. Devotions were held on March 19th in the past. The well was enclosed with a wall and roof over it. Danaher states that he found an inscription on the wall that read "This was erected by James Keating in ye year of our Lord 1791 that lived in Grangehill. Pray for him".
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Ruskie, thanks for the feedback - I can't find any mention of a local history group in Croom or Fedamore.
Sinann, that was my thought about the bricks too. I remembered as a child here in Australia, living in a house built of convict bricks, which dated from the early 19th century.
I hadn't noticed the stone at the base - zooming in is a bit tricky, isn't it!
hallmark, what a lovely old farmhouse! It seems the design was a popular one, with the central door flanked by windows.
Andrew, yes, that's the place. The James Keating who erected the well was my 4g grandfather. The property was passed down from James Keating to his son Jeffrey Keating, then to Jeffrey's daughter Ellen Keating (she died 1895), then to Ellen's grandniece, Anne Keating who married James Lane. I'm interested to find out if any of my Keatings built the house, or if it dates to the time the Lanes were living there (in 1901 I know they were).
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Knocknagranshy equidistant between Croom and Fedamore.
https://www.townlands.ie/limerick/pubblebrien/monasteranenagh/garrane/knocknagranshy/
KG
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Yes, the baptisms etc are in Fedamore, the civil registrations in Croom.