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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Clare => Topic started by: grizzly1 on Tuesday 16 July 19 15:27 BST (UK)
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Hi im looking for the details of a Marriage which may have taken place circa 1902-1922 in Ballyvaghan.
The story is that Mary Burns returned to Clare from the US following the death of her husband (year unknown, but son Edward born in New jersey in 1902)
Mrs Mary O'Loughlin 'sister' address given as Ballyvaghan on Edward's Irish army enlistment form in 1922, it's very possible that this entry for 'sister' is incorrect info, as his mother's name was Mary and it's known she returned to Co Clare and remarried.
Mary's maiden name before her Marriage to Patrick Burns was Leonard.
I note on the 1911 Census forms for Ballyvaghan 4 entries for O'Loughlin, just 2 of them with possibilties due to age, so hopefully this would narrow down the possibilites of who Mary Burn/Leonard married.
There is also a possibility that Mary may have been a postmistress in the area after return/marriage.
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You could try a search like this on https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
or 5 years at a time
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the info on his army enlistment may be correct
his sister ? Mary dtr of PATRICK to Thomas O'Loughlin 1922
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1922/09207/5330608.pdf
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https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0613 Ballyvaughan
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This Search will get all Registered BDM'S 1864 to 1900
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This may have no connection but there is a Thomas O’Loughlin born in US in 1911 census visiting
john Coyne in Fanore Beg.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Clare/Derreen/Fanore_Beg/350753/
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If i have the right man Edmond he said his sister was Mary Burns
http://census.militaryarchives.ie/pdf/Listowel_Abbeyfeale_Area_Page_14.pdf
so this is also a possible marriage for her dtr of Patrick decd an engineer
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1926/09132/5302727.pdf
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the info on his army enlistment may be correct
his sister ? Mary dtr of PATRICK to Thomas O'Loughlin 1922
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1922/09207/5330608.pdf
This is a possibility for his sister alright Dathai, though not impossible it would mean that both Mother and daughter married in Clare on return from the USA leaving Edward to join the Free State army in Sept 1922...not impossible by any means ?
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If i have the right man Edmond he said his sister was Mary Burns
http://census.militaryarchives.ie/pdf/Listowel_Abbeyfeale_Area_Page_14.pdf
so this is also a possible marriage for her dtr of Patrick decd an engineer
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1926/09132/5302727.pdf
This very helpful Datahi, as usual im indebted to you all on Rootschat,Im actually waiting to see his military records, we had to jump through hoop's to access them but eventually got them today, so just waiting to see what they can add ?
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This may have no connection but there is a Thomas O’Loughlin born in US in 1911 census visiting
john Coyne in Fanore Beg.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Clare/Derreen/Fanore_Beg/350753/
The 1922 marriage above gives 'Fanore' as the address of the couple on Marriage cert, so it does leave open the probability that Thomas O'Loughlin on 1911 census born in the USA was known to Edward Burns was also born in USA (New Jersey) in 1902 around the same time as Thomas ?
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That’s what I was thinking but it is a tenuous link.
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the info on his army enlistment may be correct
his sister ? Mary dtr of PATRICK to Thomas O'Loughlin 1922
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1922/09207/5330608.pdf
Possibly the Thomas O'loughlin born USA who was a visitor in 1911 at John Coyne Fanore beag,as in Heywood's post, if Mary was also Born in USA as was Edward and the families knew each other then this could be her.
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hi Grizzly
i was a bit doubtful about that marriage in 1922 when i seen Eds date of enlistment was in September and the marriage was in June and Ed gave her maiden name.
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Just a few observations
Mary Burns, Fanore, marriage 1922
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1922/09207/5330608.pdf
Witness is Nora Droney
1901 Mary ‘Byrens’ 1 yr
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Clare/Derreen/Balliny_North/1066899/
1911 Mary Byrnes 13 yrs
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Clare/Derreen/Balliny__North/350722/
Both censuses show Balliny as residence and Mary Byrnes snr looks to have Droney, maiden name.
Son Austin shows parents as Patrick Burns and Mary Droney
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1903/01855/1723030.pdf
If this young Mary Burns is one of those O’Loughlin brides, then it isn’t the US family.
Also, there are no Leonards in 1901 or 1911 in Derreen DED but there are some Linnanes. The names may be interchangeable or connected.
I can’t remember now, grizzly, from your earlier thread whether Mary Leonard is the mother or Godmother to your Edward.
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Name MARY BYRNS
Date of Birth 12 February 1900
Group Registration ID 19152
SR District/Reg Area Ballyvaughan
Sex Female
Mother's Birth Surname DOWNEY
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1900/02003/1769998.pdf
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Hi im looking for the details of a Marriage which may have taken place circa 1902-1922 in Ballyvaghan.
The story is that Mary Burns returned to Clare from the US following the death of her husband (year unknown, but son Edward born in New jersey in 1902)
his mother's name was Mary and it's known she returned to Co Clare and remarried.
Is it known or is it a story?
IF she returned are they on 1911 Census "somewhere in Ireland" ??
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http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/#searchmore
You'd need to do 2 Searches... one America, other United States
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Forgot to enter Age into the above!!
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Just a few observations
Mary Burns, Fanore, marriage 1922
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1922/09207/5330608.pdf
Witness is Nora Droney
1901 Mary ‘Byrens’ 1 yr
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Clare/Derreen/Balliny_North/1066899/
1911 Mary Byrnes 13 yrs
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Clare/Derreen/Balliny__North/350722/
Both censuses show Balliny as residence and Mary Byrnes snr looks to have Droney, maiden name.
Son Austin shows parents as Patrick Burns and Mary Droney
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1903/01855/1723030.pdf
If this young Mary Burns is one of those O’Loughlin brides, then it isn’t the US family.
Also, there are no Leonards in 1901 or 1911 in Derreen DED but there are some Linnanes. The names may be interchangeable or connected.
I can’t remember now, grizzly, from your earlier thread whether Mary Leonard is the mother or Godmother to your Edward.
Yes that above info throws the proverbial 'spanner in the work's'.
Mary Leonard was the Mother of Edward Burn's.
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Just a few observations
Mary Burns, Fanore, marriage 1922
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1922/09207/5330608.pdf
Witness is Nora Droney
1901 Mary ‘Byrens’ 1 yr
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Clare/Derreen/Balliny_North/1066899/
1911 Mary Byrnes 13 yrs
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Clare/Derreen/Balliny__North/350722/
Both censuses show Balliny as residence and Mary Byrnes snr looks to have Droney, maiden name.
Son Austin shows parents as Patrick Burns and Mary Droney
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1903/01855/1723030.pdf
If this young Mary Burns is one of those O’Loughlin brides, then it isn’t the US family.
Also, there are no Leonards in 1901 or 1911 in Derreen DED but there are some Linnanes. The names may be interchangeable or connected.
I can’t remember now, grizzly, from your earlier thread whether Mary Leonard is the mother or Godmother to your Edward.
Is it unusual to have neither profession for bride/groom or either of fathers on the marriage Cert from 1922?
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I wonder are there passenger list's available between New York and Ireland between his dob in 1902 and enlistement in Irish army 1922.
This might provide info as to when Edward returned to Ireland and with who ?
He enlisted in Free State army in Limerick 1922, hopefully he was with his Mother Mary Burn nee Leonard on Passenger list, or possibly his sister Mrs Mary O'loughlin of Ballyvaghan who is listed as his 'next of kin' on Army records.
I could not find him on 1911 census, so Im presuming he may have returned sometime after 1911.
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Where was his sister born?
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Where was his sister born?
Sorry Hallmark we dont have that info, the first mention of his sister came up when the Army papers mentioned her as 'next of kin', basically very little info was known about Edward apart from his Baptismal cert from 1902 in St Patrick's cathedral/church in New Jersey on 14-3-1902, stating Patrick Burns as Father and Mary nee Leonard as mother.
At some stage his Father died and his mother remarried, its unclear whether the marriage took place in the USA or Clare where she had returned, dont know the exact date or year.
The next piece of the jigsaw came when Edward married in the 1930s and the info on the marriage cert led us to his Army records which stated he enlisted in Limerick in 1922.
Apart froma short break he served until 1947, he died in Dublin in the 1970s.
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Wouldn't be surprised if she married in US and she and her brother arrived in 1922 once British had gone!
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His Marriage is probably one of these..
Marriage results for Edward Burns of Dublin from 1930 to 1939 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01o29/
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His Marriage is probably one of these..
Marriage results for Edward Burns of Dublin from 1930 to 1939 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01o29/
We have his marriage cert when he married Elizabeth Downey in Portarlington in 1936.
This led us to the Army records and Mary O'loughlin as next of kin, understandably Mary was removed and Elizabeth entered as next of kin following marriage.
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So we now see that his father was a boiler maker wonder could that be classed as an engineer as on Mary Burns marriage in 1926
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1926/09132/5302727.pdf
Edwards
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1936/08926/5228699.pdf
Patrick J O'Loughlin who married Mary Burns above died 1952 with a daughter Rose as informant, he was 59/60 yrs old and a widower unfortunately i cant find a death for his wife Mary
148
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1952/04485/4177169.pdf
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So we now see that his father was a boiler maker wonder could that be classed as an engineer as on Mary Burns marriage in 1926
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1926/09132/5302727.pdf
Edwards
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1936/08926/5228699.pdf
Patrick J O'Loughlin who married Mary Burns above died 1952 with a daughter Rose as informant, he was 59/60 yrs old and a widower unfortunately i cant find a death for his wife Mary
148
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1952/04485/4177169.pdf
The 1922 marriage for Mary Burns in the Union of Ballyvaghan was to 'Thomas' O'Loughlin...both gave address as Fanfore and no other info regs occupations for themselves or Father's ?
Thought it unusual ?
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Too many "unknowns" on the American side!
Mrs Mary O'Loughlin 'sister' address given as Ballyvaghan on Edward's Irish army enlistment form in 1922 when he was 20.
Chances are his sister was older, so probably born US too. Maybe Married there ??
No sign of Edward on 1911 CENSUS.
Is Mary and Edward to be found on U.S Census? Is sister Mary there?
Can father's Death be found?
Mary was already Married when he signed up in 1922.
At least this is what I can make out from what was posted.....
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Mary dtr of PATRICK to Thomas O'Loughlin 1922
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1922/09207/5330608.pdf
already posted could be Mary!
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Did you find out the area (in New Jersey) where Edward was baptised?
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There is this
https://www.archives.gov/research/genealogy/census/online-resources#collapsepanel_66389
but don't know how to use it.
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Did you find out the area (in New Jersey) where Edward was baptised?
On 1900 census Orange county Ward 5 Essex N Jersey there is a Patrick & Mary Burns with 2 children Patrick 8 & Josephine 0...Just a possiblity that 'Josephine' may be actuallu Mary Josephine ? and that Edward was born 1902 ?
Same Census, district 4, Newark city Ward 2, Essex NJ..Patrick Leonard wife Margaret.
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Where was the baptism though?
Wasn’t Edward baptised as Patrick Edward?
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Where was the baptism though?
Wasn’t Edward baptised as Patrick Edward?
St Patricks church Jersey City, yes he was christened Patrick Edward, the baptismal cert was the only official document held by the family to link Edward to The USA.
Though the enlistment info given as New Jersey/Usa as his birthplace seems to confirm.
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I have found an Obituary in a USA newspaper which may be related to the marriage of Thomas and Mary Burns, the article relates to the death of a John J O'loughlin who was born in Farnfore in 1923 to Thomas O'Loughlin and Mary Byrnes (note the misspelling of 'BURNS).
It goes on to state that state that he came to America in 1929.
The article gives extensive information with names of sibling's and children grand-children all living in the US in 2001, im hoping to now glean some info from detail's and perhaps clarify from a descendant of Thomas & Mary Burns.
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That is why I left Surname box empty in Reply #1
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I have found an Obituary in a USA newspaper which may be related to the marriage of Thomas and Mary Burns, the article relates to the death of a John J O'loughlin who was born in Farnfore in 1923 to Thomas O'Loughlin and Mary Byrnes (note the misspelling of 'BURNS).
It goes on to state that state that he came to America in 1929.
The article gives extensive information with names of sibling's and children grand-children all living in the US in 2001, im hoping to now glean some info from detail's and perhaps clarify from a descendant of Thomas & Mary Burns.
S S America October 1929
Mary O’Loughlin 29 yrs
John 6 yrs
Mary 5 yrs
Annie 1 yr
Children born Ireland
Re Naturalisation for Mary
24th January 1895 by Marriage 1922
Husband born at Stamford, Conn.
Address 74 Boylan Street, Newark NJ
1930 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X46M-92L
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Forgot to write that the record was from Ellis Island site.
I don’t understand the reference to 1895 though :-\ unless it is Thomas’ birthdate. I think it is.
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Mary is possibly the child referred to in reply #18 with mmn Droney :-\
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see Hallmarks reply 14 this topic
mothers maiden name Downey zoom it up its Droney
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see Hallmarks reply 14 this topic
mothers maiden name Downey zoom it up its Droney
Sorry, I don’t understand this message ???
In my reply#13 I point out that mother is Droney.
Later mentioned again in reply #18.
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yes Heywood but you had'nt posted her birth i was just bringing to attention the fact that it was Droney and not Downey on that cert
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Oh I see.
I posted Austin’s birth from the census instead as I was trying to point out the possible relationship between Mary Burns who got married and that family in the census.
I thought I had made the point but have noted it :)
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I just copied and pasted what was here and Link to image
No Zooming was performed at this Location!
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I just copied and pasted what was here and Link to image
No Zooming was performed at this Location!
Just to further complicate matter's,
Edward Burns married Elizabeth 'Downey' in 1936 in Portarlington ?
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Hi Grizzly
just to try and clarify something about Mary his sister as you say he joined up in Sep 1922 giving his sister as Mary Burns of Ballyvaughan as next of kin you keep saying Mary O'Loughlin was given as next of kin
http://census.militaryarchives.ie/pdf/Listowel_Abbeyfeale_Area_Page_14.pdf
that census was taken 12th November 1922 both dates the 1922 marriage and enlistment are months after the June 1922 marriage so where did you see her name as Mary O'Loughlin entered and what date ?
that is why i seriously think you should consider the second marriage i gave to Patrick J O'Loughlen 1926
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1926/09132/5302727.pdf
https://www.irishgraveyards.ie/plot.php?plotno=24&yardid=64§ion=
https://www.irishgraveyards.ie/search.php?yardid=64&pagenum=3
this Mary died from a Brain Tumour in Dec 1942 at Ennistimon Hospital
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1943/04668/4242937.pdf
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Cornelius appears to have died in Dollymount
https://notices.irishtimes.com/?_fstatus=search;date_limit=0;from_mobile=1;keywords=O%27LOGHLEN;order_by=relevance;page=2;s_source=itir;type=all_memorial
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Of course, dathai. You’re right :)
It is definitely worth considering.
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Makes most sense!
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Hi Grizzly
just to try and clarify something about Mary his sister as you say he joined up in Sep 1922 giving his sister as Mary Burns of Ballyvaughan as next of kin you keep saying Mary O'Loughlin was given as next of kin
http://census.militaryarchives.ie/pdf/Listowel_Abbeyfeale_Area_Page_14.pdf
that census was taken 12th November 1922 both dates the 1922 marriage and enlistment are months after the June 1922 marriage so where did you see her name as Mary O'Loughlin entered and what date ?
that is why i seriously think you should consider the second marriage i gave to Patrick J O'Loughlen 1926
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1926/09132/5302727.pdf
https://www.irishgraveyards.ie/plot.php?plotno=24&yardid=64§ion=
https://www.irishgraveyards.ie/search.php?yardid=64&pagenum=3
this Mary died from a Brain Tumour in Dec 1942 at Ennistimon Hospital
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1943/04668/4242937.pdf
Hi Dathai, 'our' Edward Burn's details from Military archives gives his enlistment as Limerick, with his sister Mrs Mary O'Loughlin of Ballyvaughan as his next of Kin.
The entry above gives 'Edmound Burns' enlisting in Galway and Mary Burns Ballyvaughan as next of kin ?..so looks like 2 separate enlistments?
The cemetery photo is very interesting, im hoping to have info from United States in the near future, so hoping that will help clarify the Ballyvaughan link to Edward, his Mother and Sister.
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What is the date for your Edward Burns’ enlistment. Is it a similar time?
This is puzzling because we have referred to the linked enlistment several times. :-\
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Why don't you post your link to him on that Census?
That way we'd have both.
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http://census.militaryarchives.ie/results.php?firstname=Edward&lastname=Byrne&age=&location=&button=Submit
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.
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If you look at the top of the page for Edmonds census return though it says Listowel it also says Abbeyfeale area
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbeyfeale
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The one we have been referring to shows Edmond attests in Galway.
Grizzly now refers to Edward and Limerick.
Presuming that there aren’t two people, would there be two documents, dathai?
I think grizzly has also mentioned that New Jersey or U S is mentioned but it isn’t on the one you link.
If sister is named as Mary O‘ Loughlin on grizzly’s info, it must be after the marriage.
I wonder if there is any other info or a different date which might confirm
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Perhaps a national or local newspaper death notice/obituary from December 1942 for Mary O'Loughlin whose is buried in Ballyvaughan graveyard along with Patrick and Cornelius may mention her brother Edward?