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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: Newfloridian on Thursday 18 July 19 08:45 BST (UK)
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I am researching a branch of the TILLEY family who moved from Northamptonshire to Nottinghamshire in the 1870s and have run into a mass of confusions and seemingly dead ends.
The indexes show that John William TILLEY married Hannah SHOOTER in the Basford District in OND 1878. The 1881 and 1891 censuses show that they lived in Watnall Road, Hucknall and that Hannah's year of birth was about 1853. These censuses also show three children: Mary Ann, Samuel and Louisa. Hannah died in 1891.
First mystery: in 1911 John William (living with daughter Louisa) declared that there had been five children of which two had died. - who were these other two?
Second mystery: Who was Hannah Shooter - and who were her parents?
Between 1880 and 1891, the GRO indexes list four births in Basford with MMN Shooter. This fourth one was Edna born in 1882. Edna never appeared with the family in Hucknall. However there is an Edna Tilley listed in the 1891 census aged 9 born in Hucknall Torkard living in Westbury on Trym Gloucestershire. The head is Henry Sheppard (26 also from Hucknall Torkard) who describes Edna as niece. She is in the same household in 1901. Is this the same Edna? and if so how do Henry Sheppard and Hannah Shooter connect.
There is a tree on Ancestry which does claim this Edna to be John William and Hannah's child. However it also gives Hannah's date of birth as 1870 and her parents as John Shooter and Ann Sheppard (born 1843) - mismatch of dates there.
So, are parish registers available on line which might show who Hannah's father was? I'm leaning towards the idea that she might have been born illegitimate before her Sheppard mother married a Shooter.
Many thanks Alan
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have you looked at this
1871 England Census; : RG10; Piece: 4442; Folio: 66; Page: 33;
Louisa Maud
At the moment I cannot access ONS, the site is down
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i WONDER IF THIS IS hANNAH IN 1861,
1861 Nottinghamshire Sutton-in-Ashfield, Townrow's Lane
SHOOTER FAMILY
James Head M 31 Coal Miner Cottager 5 Acres DBY Pinxton
Emma Wife M 31 Seamer Of Cotton Hosiery NTT Sutton In Ashfield
Hannah Maria Dau 8 Scholar NTT Sutton In Ashfield
Sarah Ann Dau - 5 Scholar DBY Pinxton
Walter Son - 3 - NTT Sutton In Ashfield
Alfred Son - 1 - NTT Sutton In Ashfield
Colin
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Hi Louisa Maud
That Hannah Shooter was born in Yorkshire (OND 1853) to MMN Ellis
Alan
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I can only find 4 children is it possible there was a stillbirth and he's counted that.
Can't see a death for Edna.
Interesting
no mmn
SHOOTER, LAURA -
GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in BASFORD Volume 07B Page 213
SHOOTER, JOHN WILLIAM -
GRO Reference: 1876 J Quarter in BASFORD Volume 07B Page 119
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There is a suggestion (?likelihood) that Edna married Edward Foster in Nottingham in 1909 and then emigrated to Canada (3 Ancestry trees - but no confirmatory documentation about her parentage)
There is also a likelihood that Louisa married Joseph Hallam in the Basford district in 1912. There is a couple of the right ages in the 1939 Register (no children with them). There are four Hallam births in the Mansfield district between 1912 and 1917 with MMN Tilley.
Nothing to answer my original confusion though
Alan
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Hi Medpat
An illegitimate son called John William would certainly be interesting. No immediate death (one of that name in Chesterfield in 1881)
Cheers Alan
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Is this a possibility - won't be the first to alter age by a few years and may have been born towards Mansfield then moved to Hucknall as a child. Remember Mansfield registry covered a large area as there's few towns but many villages in Nottinghamshire.
SHOOTER, HANNAH MACHEN
GRO Reference: 1847 S Quarter in OF MANSFIELD Volume 15 Page 479
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Not much positive help:
Laura Shooter (4) living with grandparents Joseph and Louisa Boot in Bulwell in 1871
Alan
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I guess the only way to start to break down this conundrum will be to get Edna's birth certificate. If that does confirm (as I expect it will) that her father was John William Tilley it will also fix Hannah Shooter as her mother.
The next step then will be to answer why, if Edna then finds herself with an uncle - Henry Shepperd, also from Hucknall - living in Gloucestershire in 1891 and 1901.
Compounded a bit by a variety of spellings of Shepherd, Sheppard etc but my bet is still on Hannah being something to do with a Shepperd / Shooter liaison
From there I guess there is no other way than buying up a raft of marriage certificates starting with Hannah in 1878 as they don't appear to be on line.
Alan
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Hold on look what I found
JOSEPH BOOT married one of these people
Sarah Cartledge, Louisa Shooter (Basford 1872)
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MATTHEW SHOOTER married one of these people
Emila Smith, Eliza Chambers, Louisa Beardsley, Ann Brothwell
District Basford
confirmation it was Louisa Matthew married and don't forget John and Hannah had a daughter Louisa
Marriage year 1846
Marriage date 30 Nov 1846
Marriage place Basford
Church St Leodegarius
Denomination Anglican
Spouse's first name(s) Louisa
Spouse's last name Beardsley
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Interesting 1851 census here - Hannah - Anna - Ann
Matthew Shooter Head Married Male 28 1823 Glove Hand Kirkby, Nottinghamshire, England
Louisa Shooter Wife Married Female 30 1821 Seamer New Basford, Nottinghamshire, England
Ann Beardsley Step Daughter - Female 9 1842 Seamer New Basford, Nottinghamshire, England
Jane Shooter Daughter - Female 2 1849 - Bulwell, Nottinghamshire, England
Laura Shooter Daughter - Female 0 1851 - Bulwell, Nottinghamshire, Englan
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Edna Tilley listed in the 1891 census aged 9 born in Hucknall Torkard living in Westbury on Trym Gloucestershire. The head is Henry Sheppard (26 also from Hucknall Torkard) who describes Edna as niece. She is in the same household in 1901. Is this the same Edna? and if so how do Henry Sheppard and Hannah Shooter connect.
A Henry Shepherd from Hucknall had a sister Hannah born 1853
She was 18 in 1871
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRJG-WCP
Poss birth reg, March 1853, Basford, Hannah Shepherd, mmn Lester
Henry Shepherd, Dec 1864, Basford, mmn Lester
A William Shepherd Tilley, mmn Shepherd, birth reg June 1888, Basford. Died same year.
Doesn't explain Shooter though.
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Ann Beardsley Sep 1841 Basford Union vol 15 p414 no mmn
Emeltom
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Marriage at Hucknall Torkard in 1872
Samuel Shooter + Hannah Sheppeard
(Dec 1872, Basford, 7b 290)
A death in Basford in Dec 1874 of a Samuel Shooter, age 27
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What about getting the wedding cert. for the father's name of Hannah.
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Marriage at Hucknall Torkard in 1872
Samuel Shooter + Hannah Sheppeard
(Dec 1872, Basford, 7b 290)
A death in Basford in Dec 1874 of a Samuel Shooter, age 27
That looks interesting - so John William Tilley would have married a widow. But then why register their children with Hannah's MMN as Shooter?
Alan
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What about getting the wedding cert. for the father's name of Hannah.
That has to be next step. The GRO was down this morning but is back up again now.
Alan
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I have seen that before that a widow has given her children her single name and not her first marriage surname
Louisa Maud
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My OH's grandmother married 5 times but only had 2 daughters 1 each to the 3rd and 4th marriages.
OH's mother birth cert. grandmother gave her 2nd marriage name as MMN
OH's aunt birth 3rd marriage name on birth cert. as MMN
She must have been asked what her previous name was NOT her maiden name. ;D ;D
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Marriage Hucknall Torkard
26 July 1842 George Sheppard and Sarah LISTER (GRO Sept 1842 Basford 15/517)
As mentioned earlier , on the 1871 census 18 year old Hannah is in Hucknall with George and Sarah- her parents. On the 1861 census she is down as ANNE aged 8.