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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Philldw on Thursday 18 July 19 12:47 BST (UK)

Title: Sarah Phillips
Post by: Philldw on Thursday 18 July 19 12:47 BST (UK)
I have just received the death cert of Sarah Phillips 26th Mar 1923 Portsmouth one of my ancestors.
The informant on the cert was 'S.Duke daughter of deceased' . Sarah did not marry (?) so assume she had a daughter out of wedlock. I can find a birth of a Sarah Phillips Jun 1889 but not a marriage.
Can anybody help further? Would like to know more about her. Any Assistance greatly appreciated
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 18 July 19 12:54 BST (UK)
Sarah was 56 when she died in 1923 so born approx 1866/67

Have you found her on censuses 1891 - 1911?

Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: rosie99 on Thursday 18 July 19 12:56 BST (UK)
Was there an address for the informant, S Duke
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 18 July 19 13:07 BST (UK)
A GRO maiden name search has no Sarah Phillips birth in 1889 in the Hampshire area without a mmn.  The June 1889 birth you mention was Sarah Ann mmn Jennings
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: Philldw on Thursday 18 July 19 13:17 BST (UK)
So, was S.Duke born as such i.e  registered in that name? Or married in to that name?
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 18 July 19 13:30 BST (UK)
Does the cert say Mrs or Miss?  If it just says S Duke - you don't even have a full christian name let alone a marital status

Have you read Rosie's question above re address
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 18 July 19 13:42 BST (UK)
The 1939 register has a Sarah Duke living in Hampshire.  You may want to compare address details with the death cert although it was 16yrs after the death
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: MaureeninNY on Thursday 18 July 19 13:50 BST (UK)
This one is interesting:
GRO BIRTHS
POPE, SARAH      mmn   PHILLIPS   
 1889  M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 445
....
Marriages FreeBMD
Dukes  Harry  Pope  Portsmouth  2b 978   
 
Pope  Sarah  Dukes  Portsmouth  2b 978

Maureen




Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 18 July 19 14:01 BST (UK)
1891 shows her as daughter of Alfred & Sarah.  Sarah b 1867 Portsmouth

No Pope/Phillips marriage but 2 more children in 1901
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: osprey on Thursday 18 July 19 14:15 BST (UK)
marriage was 22 Oct 1913 at St Mark's Portsmouth between Harry Dukes 25 coal labourer, father Joseph, diver, and Sarah Pope 25, father Alfred, coal labourer both of 84 Rudmore Road. One of the witnesses is Emily Pope.
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: candrjm on Thursday 18 July 19 14:27 BST (UK)
Birth reg for Emily Pope (witness at the marriage?):

POPE, EMILY  CAROLINE      MMN PHILLIPS     
GRO Reference: 1897  M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 445
 
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: osprey on Thursday 18 July 19 14:49 BST (UK)
she was baptised 16 Nov 1897, dob noted as 7 Dec 1896, at St Mark's, daughter of Alfred, carter, & Sarah of 2 Rudmure Passage.
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: osprey on Thursday 18 July 19 14:55 BST (UK)
2 more baptisms 3 July 1894 at St Mark's
William born 29 April 1892
Sarah born 5 Jan 1879 - is this year in error, it's what shows on register?   ???
children of Alfred William, labourer, & Sarah Pope of 6 Rudmore Passage
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: osprey on Thursday 18 July 19 15:02 BST (UK)
and a burial
1 Dec 1907 Alfred Pope 43 of Rudmore Passage
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: Gan Yam on Thursday 18 July 19 17:01 BST (UK)
There's a copy of the death entry on ancestry.  Address at death was 84 Rudmore Road.  The death certificate says she was a spinster and her father was William Phillips a general labourer (deceased).  Certificate confirms that S Duke (informant) was her daughter.

Added: address matches the marriage details of Sarah and Harry posted by osprey
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: Philldw on Friday 19 July 19 07:30 BST (UK)
First, Thanks guys for all the lots of interesting information!
I looked at the 1901 census for Alfred W Pope. It shows Sarah (wife) plus Sarah daughter, Emily, and William Plus a boarder. I cannot find a Pope/Phillips marriage which I think was mentioned by CaroleW
(thanks again!) So her death was recorded under her maiden name of Phillips.
I will follow up on the Pope/Duke marriage.
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: CaroleW on Friday 19 July 19 12:13 BST (UK)
Quote
I will follow up on the Pope/Duke marriage.

Can't see another marriage pre-1889 for either Alfred or Sarah so it looks as though they were free to marry but chose not to do so
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: Deirdre784 on Friday 19 July 19 12:51 BST (UK)
There's a copy of the death entry on ancestry.  Address at death was 84 Rudmore Road.  The death certificate says she was a spinster and her father was William Phillips a general labourer (deceased).  Certificate confirms that S Duke (informant) was her daughter.

Added: address matches the marriage details of Sarah and Harry posted by osprey

How was her death recorded as a spinster though 🤔
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: Philldw on Friday 19 July 19 13:03 BST (UK)
Sarah Phillips lived as 'married' with Arthur Pope.
There was no marriage. That is why she is a spinster on the death cert.
The marriage you refer to was between Sarah (daughter) and Harry Duke.
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: Deirdre784 on Friday 19 July 19 13:17 BST (UK)
Ah sorry, did wonder 😆
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: Philldw on Saturday 20 July 19 10:29 BST (UK)
Does anyone know where & when Alfred Pope was born? 1891 & 1901 census states Portsmouth 1864 or 1866 but I cannot find it. There is a Alfred William Dec 1865 at Pancras? Thank You
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: candrjm on Saturday 20 July 19 11:00 BST (UK)
That Alfred William Pope possibly died in 1865

 Death:   POPE, ALFRED  WILLIAM      aged 0 
GRO Reference: 1865  D Quarter in PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 110
 birth:
POPE, ALFRED  WILLIAM      MMN GARWOOD     
GRO Reference: 1865  D Quarter in PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 123

possible child of:

Dan and Amelia Pope

possible marriage:
Mar Q 1859
Bethnal Green 1c 565
Dan Pope and Amelia Garwood
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: Philldw on Saturday 20 July 19 11:09 BST (UK)
Thanks for your help, looks like a potential candidate. On the 1891 census he is 'Alfred' and on the 1901 'Alfred W'. I have not found him on a previous census either.
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: candrjm on Saturday 20 July 19 11:32 BST (UK)
Maybe the birth registered as just Alfred Pope(no middle name) ?

POPE, ALFRED        MMN GOOD     
GRO Reference: 1867  M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 403
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: Philldw on Saturday 20 July 19 13:27 BST (UK)
I think you might have the right man candrjm!!! ManyThanks
Title: Re: Sarah Phillips
Post by: candrjm on Saturday 20 July 19 14:23 BST (UK)
No! not this one either it looks like he died as well:

possible death:
POPE, ALFRED        aged 0 
GRO Reference: 1867  M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND  Volume 02B  Page 296


Info to rule him out

possible marriage for his parents:
Mar Q 1863
Portsea I 2B 471
Martha Jemima Good and Alfred Pope

Possible 1871 census (living in Somerset)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KDZK-LJR

records them with another son Alfred aged 2 born Bridgewater

Birth for this Alfred:

POPE, ALFRED  THOMAS      MMN GOOD     
GRO Reference: 1868  S Quarter in BRIDGWATER  Volume 05C  Page 419

1881 census:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q274-NHLM (Martha J Pope)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q274-N4M1 (more of the same family on a different page)