RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Heraldry Crests and Coats of Arms => Topic started by: SsGn on Sunday 04 August 19 22:45 BST (UK)
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Hello,
Just wondering if anyone knows the meaning of this coat of arms.
Have hit a bick wall with finding Timothy Horan born around 1750 , Thought maybe the coat of arms could shed some light .
Many Thanks
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Not quite sure what you mean by "meaning of this coat of arms"?
The arms look to be the husband's (on the left as we see it) and his wife's (on the right).
The lion is passant, between three fleur-de-lys.
Not sure what the background colour should be?
On the left we have a chief bendy (the diagonal stripes) over a plain black field?
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So is this "waves of the sea" for the husband and a french / english connection for the wife?
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I don't see any waves?
Fleur-de-lys represents a lily and, while it was the Royal Badge of France, many English and Irish coats-of-arms utilise fleurs-de-lys.
Waves are generally shown as "barry-wavy" as in the attached.
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There were lions on Horan crests.
www.irishsurnames.com/cgi-bin/gallery.pl?names=horan&capname=Horan&letter=h
Use "Find your name" A-Z to see Horan crest.
See also Bing images of Horan crests.
Where did you find the coats of arms?
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This doesn't help with the coat of arms, but Timothy and Hannah married by licence and his occupation was tailor.
A couple of catalogue entries at TNA might be of assistance. A Timothy Horan, described as a landsman, is listed in the pay books of HMS Audacious in 1806; he was discharged to HMS Prince of Wales in 1811. His mother was named Elizabeth.
No idea if this is the same Timothy.
Nell
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Reply #5. I've just suggested naval and military records on the other thread about Timothy Horan. Great minds … :)
Horan in a very common surname in the Mayo parish where some of my family come from.
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Ah, didn't know there was another one (see here: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=816688.0;topicseen)
Nell
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I think that this might be a wild goose chase.
1 - The General Armory gives only one entry for a Horan.
HORAN - (co. Galway; Reg. Ulster's Office). Vert three lions ramp. or. Crest—A demi lion ramp. or.
(Green, 3 lions rampant Gold) This is nothing like the shield we are seeing.
2 - The General Armory gives many entries for Evans.
Evans (co. Montgomery ; now of Portsea, co. Southampton). Ar. a lion pass. sa. betw. three fleurs-de-lis gu. Crest— A lion pass. sa.
(White a lion passant Black between three lily flowers Red) The shield we are seeing is badly depicted. Two of the lily flowers are of one style and the lower one is of another - this is not something a professional would do. The background (white) of the Evans coat of arms has what is called daipering (see the little dots and the crosshatching). This looks as if it was done to make the shield/document look older.
3 - All official accounts give the name of the town as Rosscarbery (1 r) and not Rosscarberry with 2 rs.
4 - They never gave away Grants of Arms - they were relatively expensive. Would a tailor be granted one - I doubt it.
5 - It is my opinion that this document is purporting to be older than it really is. It looks like an exercise in calligraphy to my mind.
Regards
Chas
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The coat of arms is a colour illustration attached to Timothy Horan's profile on Find a Grave website.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/133696901/timothy-horan#view-photo=107916237
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Well, it seems that I am mistaken.
Papworths gives -
Gules a chief bendy of eight Azure and Argent. Horan, Ireland.
Why it is not in the General Armory, I don't know. And for that matter, not in Burkes either.
Oh, well, we live and learn.
Regards
Chas
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So is this "waves of the sea" for the husband and a french / english connection for the wife?
The father of Timothy Horan was captain of a trading vessel. 3 sons of Timothy had maritime occupations. (Information from Find a Grave https://www.findagrave.com)
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I'd be interested to know where Findagrave sourced that information, simply to verify it.
Nell
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I'd be interested to know where Findagrave sourced that information, simply to verify it.
Nell
The person who posted it is an American, who seems to be somewhat obsessed with graves and graveyards. (We all need a hobby.) I have messaged him and asked where it came from.
Regards
Chas