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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ross & Cromarty => Topic started by: mcadamsd on Friday 16 August 19 19:52 BST (UK)
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Here is what we know about her. Last name sometimes Munroe and sometimes Munro. It is Munroe on the grave marker for others in family. Several hints around other family memebers mention Ross & Cromarty
Chirstina Christy Munroe
Birth JULY 19 1837 • SCOTLAND (This date from Canada death record)
Death NOVEMBER 3, 1933 Middlesex, Ontario, Canada
Parents were listed on death record as George Munro and Catherine Ross. However, other information lists parents as George Munroe and May Munroe
She married someone named Urquhart as that is the name on the headstone and the death record. She was widowed at time of death. Census documents in Canada don't have much definitive. No marriage in Canada so far.
There is an arrival in 1907 of a Christina Urquhart, 66 years old and a widow, going to London, ON which could fit. Husband passed and so heading to be with family.
She had the following siblings
Jane Munroe 1830–1913
Mary Munroe 1833–1876
Roderick Munroe 1836–1920
A John Munroe in London Ontario is the informant on two death records and listed as "nephew" but haven't found the connection. Guessing a missing sibling
All passed in London, Ontario, Canada
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Hi mcadamsd
Christian's arrival in Canada:
Arriving in New York, on the 'Caledonia' on 4 Aug 1907
Christina Urquhart, Crofter, widow, age 66, born Kiltarn, Scotland
Last Permanent Residence: Scotland Fearn
Contact in Scotland: Mr John Mitchell, ……….Buildings, Tain.
Going to in Canada: sister, Mrs S Pope of Ealing PO, London, Ontario
Description: 5'9", Fair Skin, Brown Hair, dk Blue eyes.
Never in Canada before
Destination: London Ontario
Note: Fearn is a hamlet, situated 1 mile south of Loch Eye and 2 miles northwest of Balintore, in eastern Ross-shire, Scottish Highlands
Note: Kiltearn is a parish in Ross and Cromarty, Scotland. It is in the Presbytery of Ross. The principal settlement is the village of Evanton, and the parish extends almost to Dingwall and about halfway to Alness.
Her indicated YoB on this manifest is 1841. This is definitely your Christian. "Mrs S Pope" is her sister Jane, who died 4 May 1913 in London, Ontario , a widow - and John Munroe, Jane's nephew, of 30 Egerton, informed of her parents as George MUNROE and May MUNROE.
Jane's husband was Samuel POPE per the 1891 Canada Census. In the Census they were listed as "Free Church" (ie: non conformist)
Roderick MUNROE died 3 Feb 1920, aged 84y
Birth 21 Jan 1836 Scotland
Of 144 Egerton,
In Ontario, Canada 45 years (since abt 1875)
Informed by nephew John MUNROE of 975 Hackett St - who said, his parents were George & May Munroe.
I realise you do have all this :) - but once fully disclosed - there are a lot of clues to run with ;D
Cheers
AMBLY
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Here is the nephew, in Canada 1921:
At 975 Hackett Street, London, Ontario
Head: John MUNROE 57, widower, (b abt 1864)
Son: Archie 24, (b abt 1897)
Son: Angus 17, (b abt 1904)
Son: Claud 16, (b abt 1905).
All listed born Scotland, ummigrated 1907
And in Canada 1911
At 80 Egerton, London, Ontario
Head: John MUNRO 45, b Nov 1865
Wife: Margrette 40, b Sept 1870
Son: Archie 18, b Apr 1893
Son: Angus 9, b Jul 1901
Son: Claud 7, b Jun 1903
All Born Scotland, all immigrated 1904
This family immigrated in 1907:
Arrived NY on 13 May 1907 on the Caledonia (same ship, 3 months before Aunty Christy )
John MUNRO 44, Railway Porter, last residence Birnam, Scotland, b Tain
Final destination: Ailsa Craig, East William.
Going to, Uncle Roderick Munro, East William
Destination Canada
Travelling with:
Wife: Margaret 32, b Tarbet
Son: Archibald 11, Angus 5, Claud 3 - all born Birnam
Here they are in Scotland 1901:
At Railway Cottages, Little Dunkeld, Perthshire
Head: John MUNRO 37, Railway Porter, b Tain Rossshire (abt 1864)
Wife: Margaret 29, b Tarbetness, Rossshire
Son: Archibald J , 7, b Little Dunkeld
Son: John Claud 4, b Little Dunkeld
Son: Angus Mc E, 1 mth b Little Dunkeld
Note: the two youngest, appear be listed the wrong way round.
Note:
Dunkeld and Birnam is ....in Perth and Kinross, Scotland, consisting of two villages on opposite banks of the River Tay: the historic cathedral "city" of Dunkeld on the north bank, and Birnam on the south bank
Death of John's wife. 1921 in Canada:
Margaret MUNRO, aged 50 y & 8 months, died 12 May 1921
Born: Tarbetshire, Scotland, Sep 27
In Canada 14 years
Father: Archibald M EACHERORN
Mother: Catherine McLEOD
Informant: Husband: John mUNRO of 975 Hackett Street
Buried Woodland Cemetery 15 May 1921
Their marriage:
1892: John MUNRO and Margaret McEACHERN, Tarbet, Rosshire
John's parents will be on this marriage record - ie: the name of his father, the MUNRO sibling
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
Cheers
AMBLY
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But here's a bonus ……nephew John remarried, in Canada in 1924:
Married at 340 Hamilton Road, London, Middlesex, Ontario
On 28 June 1924
John MUNRO 60, Inspector, Widower, of 975 Hacket Street
Born: Ross of Scotland
Presbyterian
Father: John MUNRO
Mother: Flora MUNRO
Jane Laws SHORT, 39, Housekeeper, Widow, of 103 Duchess St
Born: Aberdeen, Scotland
Baptist
Father: Andrew? LAWS
Mother: Elizabeth YOUNGSON
Witness: F BURTON & Rosie BURTON, of 13 Southgate Street.
Cheers
AMBLY
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And here's the rub……… BOTH John's parents were MUNRO. John supplied his parent's names on his 1924 Marriage - it's unlikely his mother's maiden name was other that what he declared, ie: Munro.
Likely Marriage of his parents:
John MUNRO married Flora MUNRO, Tain Rosshire 1862
Possible: Census 1871: Bogbain Servts House, Tain Burgh, Ross
Head: John MUNRO 34, Farm Servant, b Tain
Wife: Flora MUNRO 33, b Tain
Son: John MUNRO 5, b Tain
Dau: Catherine Ann M MUNRO, 3, b Tain
Son: George MUNRO, 1 b Tain
Naming Pattern: Very useful in Scottish research as the pattern was often strongly adhered to:
Indicates John's father was John (1st Son)
Indicates Flora's father was George (2nd Son)
Indicates Flora's mother was Catherine (1st daughter)
So my pick, John's mother Flora is your Christina Munro Urquhart's sister.
[Edit] Later disproved, pretty much - looks like John's father is Christina's father.
Cheers
AMBLY
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The likely birth - Scotland's People Index - of Catherine, 1868 Tain:
Catherine Mary MUNRO
Although the 1871 Census indicates the name was "Catherine Ann M(ary?).
Christening: George MUNRO 28 Apr 1870, Tain
Father: John MUNRO
Mother: Flora MUNRO
Christening: Janet MUNRO 20 Nov 1873, Tain
Father: John MUNRO
Mother: Flora MUNRO
Can't find nephew John, his parents, siblings etc in 1881…..
But, does this looks like them in 1891 - albiet the parent's ages a decade off when compared to 1871?:
Wilkhaven Farm, Tarbert, Rosshire
Head: John MUNRO 46, Farm Servant, b Tain (abt 1845)
Wife: Flora MUNRO. 49, b Tain (abt 1842)
Son: John MUNRO 25, Farm Servant, b Tain (abt 1866)
Dau: Mary Ann MUNRO 23, b Tain (abt 1868)
Dau: Flora MUNRO 13, b Tarbat (abt 1878)
And then come to a screeching halt, and couldn't help myself.......looked up the 1862 Marriage on Scotland's People (PM me your addy, will send you it):
And haha......pick one set of parents ;D ::) ;D
The marriage - I believe- of Nephew John's parents:
MARRIAGE : 22 August 1862, at the Free Manse of Tain
After Banns according to the Forms of the Free Church:
John MUNRO, 26, single, Ploughman, of Willow Parish, Tain - signed
Father: George MUNRO, Crofter
Mother: May MUNRO, ms MUNRO, dec'd
Flora MUNRO 28, of Rosemount Parish of Tain - her X Mark
Her Mark witnessed by: John MUNRO, Jn'o ROSE
Father: John MUNRO, Woodkeeper
Mother: Catherine MUNRO, ms ROSS
Witness: John MUNRO, Rod'k MUNRO
Minister: Walter ROSS of the F.C.
Registrar: Jn'o ROSE
Their marriage ages, more in line with the 1871 Census:
John, b abt 1836
Flora, b abt 1834
Cheers
AMBLY
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And just going back to the original query:
Christain / Christina / Christy MUNRO (married URQUHART)
Her Nov 1933 death record said she had been in Canada 27 years, in Province 27 years and in current residence 3 weeks - which ties in with the 1907 Passenger record. Her usual Residence is listed as 144 Egerton.
Noting, her mother's name was initially informed - by nephew John Munroe of 146 Egerton - as 'not known' The mother's name "Catherine Ross" was informed and added later, on 30 Jan 1934 - and it doesn't state by whom informed.
Cheers
AMBLY
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John MUNRO and Catherine ROSS
Census 1841: At Lairg, Tain, Rosshire
https://freecen1.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
John MUNRO, 35, Sawyer, b abt 1806
Catherine MUNRO 35, b abt 1806
Flora MUNRO 7, b abt 1834
Catherine MUNRO 4, b Abt 1836
Alexis MUNRO 2, b abt 1838 (enumerated as female)
BIRTHS OPC Scotland's People
Parents: John MUNRO and Catherine ROSS
Flora, 1 Sep 1833
Williamina, 11 Jan 1835
Catherine, 4 Sep 1836
John, 11 Apr 1843
Note: Cannot find a OPR birth for an Alex* MUNRO to John & Catherine.
Census 1851: At Rosemount, Tain
Head: John MUNRO, 49, Wood Keeper & Forrester, b Rosskeen, Rosshire (abt 1802)
Wife: Catherine 48, b Rosskeen, Rosshire
Dau: Flora 17, b Tain
Dau: Catherine 14, b Tain
Dau: Lary? 12, b Tain (this must be 'Alexis' from 1841
Son: John 8, b Tain
Census 1861: At Calrossie, Tain Rosshire
Head: John MUNRO 57, Wood keeper, b Rosskeen
Wife: Catherine MUNRO 56, b Rosskeen
Dau: Flora MUNRO 26, b Tain
Son: John MUNRO 18, Scholar, b Tain
Dau: Flora then married John MUNRO - relative or not, to be determined - in 1862.
She gave her address as Rosemount.
This couple are the parents of John MUNRO, nephew aforesaid.
No evidence of the couple John MUNRO and Catherine ROSS - parents of John's mother Flora - having had a daughter named Christina/Christian.
Unless she is "Alexis" ? But I don't thinks so.
So we turn to John's father John MUNRO Snr, whose parents are named as:
George MUNRO and May MUNRO, nee (sigh) MUNRO
And are looking for a couple so named with a daughter Christian, b Kiltearn? , around 1837-1843
Cheers,
AMBLY
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George MUNRO and May MUNRO
This appears to be your Christina's marriage to URQUHART (PM me for details):
Married 22 May 1879, Bogbain, Parish of Tain
After Banns according to the Forms of the Free Church
Andrew URQUHART 40, Bachelor, Farmer, of Bogbain
Father: William URQUHART, Stone Quarrier, deceased
Mother: Janet URQUHART ms MUNRO, deceased
Christina MUNRO 36, Spinster, of Bogbain
Father: George MUNRO, Crofter, deceased
Mother: May MUNRO ms MUNRO, deceased
Witness: Alexander Gibson MOWAT, And. SUTHERLAND
If this is your Christina…..her age at marriage indicates a year of birth around 1843. Your Christina's age on her 1907 passenger list indicated born around 1841. Both later than the 1837 indicated by her informed age at death.
Where is your Christina in 1911 Canada - I couldn't seem to find her? Nor Roderick MUNRO, her brother?
I think this is Christina, below . Can't find the 1841 Census - where we might might more of the children to match your list of her siblings. The Mary in 1851, born abt 1833 is the only one identifiable.
1851: Farms of Helton and Aldie, Tain, Rosshire
Head: George MUNRO 50, b Alness, Rosshire
Wife: Mary, b Fearn, Rosshire
Dau: Mary 18, b Kiltearn, Rosshire,
Son: John 15, b Tain
Dau: Christy, 12, b Allness
Dau: Bell 6, b Allness
Son: George 3, b Tain
1861: Farmhouse Hillton, Tain, Rosshire
Head: George MUNRO 55, Farmer if 15 Acres, b Alness, Rossshire
Wife: Marry MUNRO 50, b Fearn, Rosshire
Son: John MUNRO 24, Ploughman, b Tain
Dau: Christy 21, b Kiltearn, Rossshire
Dau: Alexandrina 8, b Tain
Note: son John of 1861, and 1851 - would be the one who married Flora MUNRO in 1862, and became parents of John Jnr, the informative nephew.
1871: Bogbain Servants House, Tain, Rosshire
Head: George MUNRO 70, Labourer, b Kiltearn, Rosshire (abt 1801)
Dau: Christina MUNRO 31, General Servant, b Parish of Fearn, Rosshire
Dau: Lexy? MUNRO 18, b Parish of Tain Rosshire
1879: Marriage to Andrew URQUHART
1881: Can't find Andrew and Christina.
1891: Crofter's House, Tain, Rosshire
Head: Andrew URQUHART 52, Crofter, b Tarbert, Rosshire, (abt 1839)
Wife: Christina URQUHART 50, Crofter's wife, b Kiltearn, Rossshire (abt 1841)
Aunt: Isabella McKAY 70, Annuitant Bedridden 31 years, b Fearn
Sister-InLaw: Alexandrina MUNRO 40, Annuitant, b Tain
1901: Crofter's House, Tain, Rosshire
Head: Andrew URQUHART 60, Crofter, b Tarbert, Rosshire, (abt 1841)
Wife: Christina URQUHART 59, Crofter's wife, b Kiltearn, Rossshire (abt 1842)
1903 DEATH
Andrew Urquhart, age 61, registered in Tain, Rosshire
The good thing here - both Christina's parents George and Ma(r)y died after the start of Civil Registration in Scotland, so their death records should - hopefully - name their respectives sets of parents.
Cheers,
AMBLY
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Related thread https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=771468.0
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Fearn is a hamlet, situated 1 mile south of Loch Eye and 2 miles northwest of Balintore, in eastern Ross-shire, Scottish Highlands
Fearn is a fully-fledged parish, not just a hamlet, in Easter Ross.
See https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ROC/Fearn
(not to be confused with the similarly-named parish in Angus https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/sct/ANS/Fearn)
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Many thanks for all the information. Sorry for the slow response. I seemed to have missed the replies to this thread.
I have been updating my tree with much of it and it has filled in some blanks and corrected some errors.
The "nephew" John Munro who appears on various documents still confuses me.
His parents can't be George Munro 1801–? and May Munro 1810–1861 as his birth is about 1864-1865 and May passed in 1861.
I know I am missing something obvious here but still missing the link.
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This is more about John Munro, informant.
New information suggests that George and Mary Munro had a son John born about 1836 in Tain. However, I have not found that birth.
That John Munro, born about 1836, marries a Flora Munro, daughter of John Munro and Catherine Ross
Also unable to find a document supporting this.
They had a son John born about 1864. He marries a Margaret McEachern at Tarbat Ness Lighthouse, 21 June 1892 . Still looking for him in records in Scotland with no joy.
In 1901 Scotland census we find
At Railway Cottages, Little Dunkeld, Perthshire
Head: John MUNRO 37, Railway Porter, b Tain Rossshire (abt 1864)
Wife: Margaret 29, b Tarbetness, Rossshire
Son: Archibald J , 7, b Little Dunkeld
Son: John Claud 4, b Little Dunkeld
Son: Angus Mc E, 1
Things start to fit around the Canadian records.
We find an arrival for John and Margaret Munro with three children
Arrived NY on 13 May 1907 on the Caledonia (same ship, 3 months before possible Aunty Christy )
John MUNRO 44, Railway Porter, last residence Birnam, Scotland, b Tain
Final destination: Ailsa Craig, East William.
Going to, Uncle Roderick Munro, East William
Destination Canada
Travelling with:
Wife: Margaret 32, b Tarbet
Son: Archibald 11, Angus 5, Claud 3 - all born Birnam
Roderick makes sense by name but I have not found his residence in 1911 Canada census to confirm this is the same man. He passes in 1920 in London, Ontario. Parents John and Mary and John, Nephew, on Hackett street informant. Address is same as sister Christina based on her death record.
As noted earlier, Christina's death record has mother as Catherine Ross. Did informant John use his grandmother's name in error? It was "not known" on original and then some months later, changed to Catherine Ross.
Many things point to George and Mary Munro having a son John born about 1836 in Tain who then married Flora Munro and had a son John born about 1864. Just can't seem to find the births or other significant documents.
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Note: the two youngest, appear be listed the wrong way round.
No, they're not.
The children were Archibald John, born 1893
John Claud McE, born 1896, died 1902 in Perth
Angus McEachern, born 1900
John Claud, born 1903
Dunkeld and Birnam is ....in Perth and Kinross, Scotland, consisting of two villages on opposite banks of the River Tay: the historic cathedral "city" of Dunkeld on the north bank, and Birnam on the south bank
That is true now.
However it was not true then. The district of 'Perth and Kinross' did not exist in 1890-1910. It was only created in 1975 when local government boundaries were re-drawn. These new-fangled local government units are a perfect nuisance for historians, because all the historical records are based on the parishes and historic counties.
The parish of Dunkeld, which contains the town and cathedral* of Dunkeld, is on the left bank of the River Tay. On the opposite side of the river is the separate and distinct parish of Little Dunkeld, which contains the village of Birnam.
The railway is on the right bank, i.e. in Little Dunkeld, and the station was named 'Dunkeld and Birnam Station'. See https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NO0341
*Although the building is still called Dunkeld Cathedral, it is not technically a cathedral. A cathedral specifically contains a cathedra, which is the chair of a bishop. The Church of Scotland is presbyterian, not episcopal, therefore it has no cathedrae and no buildings which perform the function of a cathedral, though there are several pre-Reformation Church of Scotland buildings that are still known as xxx Cathedral, including Dunkeld, Dunblane, St Machar in Aberdeen, St Giles in Edinburgh, St Magnus in Kirkwall and others. There are cathedrals in Scotland belonging to the Roman Catholic and Scottish Episcopal Churches, both of which do have bishops.
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Roderick MUNROE died 3 Feb 1920, aged 84y
Birth 21 Jan 1836 Scotland
Of 144 Egerton,
In Ontario, Canada 45 years (since abt 1875)
Informed by nephew John MUNROE of 975 Hackett St - who said, his parents were George & May Munroe.
Roderick's DoB cannot possibly be correct because his brother John was born on 11 April 1836.
Roderick Munro, son of George Munro and Marjory Munro, was baptised in Alness on 4 April 1842.
The immigration record said that John Munro and Margaret McEachern and family were going to John's uncle Roderick in East William.
In the 1911 census in Williams East Twp, Middlesex North, Ontario is Roderick Munro, head, single, born March 1843, Scotland, immigrated 1866, with his sister Christy Munro, single, born Feb 1840, aged 71, immigrated 1907.
We know from other records that Christian Munro was born on 19 February 1839, the widow of Andrew Urquhart, and that she immigrated to Canada in 1907. So this does look like her, with a birth one year out and having reverted to her maiden name.
In 1901, in Williams East, is Roderick Munro, single, born 11 June 1848, Scotland, immigrated 1866.
So Roderick himself seems unsure when he was born, either what year or what day, so the DoB on his death certificate is obviously unreliable.
However I have not so far found any record of this Roderick in Scotland in 1851 or 1861. Unless he is the 9-year-old servant, born Alness, in the household of widowed Janet Munro in Kiltearn in 1851. And/or the 18-year-old ploughman in the household of James Munro in Fearn in 1861.
Census 1851: At Rosemount, Tain
Head: John MUNRO, 49, Wood Keeper & Forrester, b Rosskeen, Rosshire (abt 1802)
Wife: Catherine 48, b Rosskeen, Rosshire
Dau: Flora 17, b Tain
Dau: Catherine 14, b Tain
Dau: Lary? 12, b Tain (this must be 'Alexis' from 1841
Son: John 8, b Tain
'Lary' will be a mistranscription of Lexy.
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I have struggled with the dates for some time. I have not added the information in my tree. The 1842/43 date would make more sense for Roderick. Possibly informant John was unsure or maybe just some family confusion over birthdays.
Still digging through previous posts on this and one other thread.
Thanks for all the feedback
Stay safe.