RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: SCantwell on Tuesday 03 September 19 06:17 BST (UK)
-
I am looking for a burial of Catherine Russell who died in 1873 at Bonnybridge, Falkirk. Catherine was the 2nd wife of John Russell who died sometime after the 1851 Census aged around 90 yrs (no death reg can be found). John Russell and his family had been living at Bonnybridge since before the 1841 census. I am hoping that Catherine was buried with her husband.
Shirlee
New Zealand
-
Hi ,
Was Catherine's maiden name Henderson ?
If so the burial could be under Russell or Henderson.
ev
-
Yes, Catherine's maiden name was Henderson.
Shirlee
-
Records on https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk
RUSSELL CATHERINE 80 Death 1873 Falkirk Landward
Do you have the above death record, which would have been registered in Falkirk?
It looks likely that John died before Statutory Registration began in Scotland in 1855.
There are Church burial records on Scotland’s People in Falkirk 1817 – 1861 but no John there or elsewhere in the County but not all churches have burial records.
Bonnybridge is a small village in the Falkirk council area of Scotland. It is 4.0 miles west of Falkirk, as far as I can see the churches there were not established until after 1855.
Colin
-
Yes, I do have Catherine Russell's death record and the informant was her neighbour who was recorded as being her neighbour in the 1871 Census. Catherine was born in Caithness and she only had one daughter Helen who seemed to disappear after the 1861 Census so I don't think she had any other relatives around and the Russell's had lived in Bonnybridge for ages.
Shirlee
-
A – Z Indices are available for the following Burial Grounds:
http://www.memento-mori.co.uk/LOCATION%20INDEX.pdf
I did find a number of Russell burials in Denny near to Bonnybridge but no Catherine or John, amongst the ones I saw some went back to the period Catherine died but I think the earliest was 1865. So maybe one of the older burial grounds.
· Denny Cemetery, Falkirk Road, Denny
Denny Cemetery (A803), Denny Stirlingshire
Denny Old Parish Churchyard Junction of Duke Street & Glasgow Road (A872),
Denny Stirlingshire
Dennyloanhead Churchyard Junction of Glasgow/Denny Rd. (A872) & Bonnybridge Rd. (A803) Stirlingshire.
I think it might be worth contacting Falkirk District Council for advice.
Bereavement Services
Cemetery & Crematorium Office
Dorrator Road
Camelon
FK2 7YJ
01324 503650
bereavement@falkirk.gov.uk
Separate post to follow re Helen.
Colin
-
JOHN RUSSELL Married CATHARINE HENDERSON/ 19/07/1816 Denny
I note from the 1851 census John was born Denny. Helen not listed
RUSSELL John Head 88 Leat Weaver STI Denny
RUSSELL Catharn Wife 70 Wife CAI
In 1841 address noted as Bonnybridge, Helen present age 20.
HELEN RUSSELL Baptism JOHN RUSSELL/CATHERINE HENDERSON 11/11/1818 Falkirk
I guess this is Helen’s marriage.
RUSSELL HELEN WILLIAM SCOTT 11/01/1843 Denny & Falkirk
In 1851 the family are at Woodend, Falkirk William a Farm Servant 40, Helen 35, John 6,
Elisabeth 1.
1861/1871 - as above plus Thomas 13 & Helen 7. (Helen senior noted as 58 in 1871)
Although the ages are out, if I have the correct family for Helen this may be her death record, Helen got older on each census.
HELEN SCOTT Age 65 Died 1876 Falkirk Landward
WILLIAM SCOTT Age 74 Died 1881 Falkirk Landward
All above on https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Colin
-
Thanks ColC for all the help you have given me. Upon searching for Thomas Scott, who was missing from the household of William and Helen Scott in 1851, I found a Thomas Scott, 3 yrs, in the household of his grandparents in Bowridge, Haggs, Denny, and his grandparents were Thomas and Elizabeth Russell. I then found a Tree on FamilySearch which actually took the RUSSELL family back to the 17th Century and Thomas' grandparents were Thomas Russell and Elizabeth Cuthill.
Thanks again
Shirlee
-
found a Tree on FamilySearch which actually took the RUSSELL family back to the 17th Century
Never trust anything you find online unless it is an image of an original document - and even then be wary. In particular do not trust online trees.
You have no idea until you check this tree step by step whether the person who compiled it was carrying out their research carefully and proving every link, or just finding index references to people who seemed to fit, and assuming they were the right people.
-
I have one further query regarding the baptism of Helen Russell in 1818. Scotlands People have two transcriptions for Helen Russell with the same detail but different reference numbers. Does anyone know what the difference b/w them is? Were they transcribed from different registers or are they from the same register. I did obtain a copy of the original baptism today via FamilySearch and it was in the "Kirk sessions records, births and baptisms, 1784-1860, marriages, 1783-1784, proclamations of marriage, 1855-1860, Falkirk" GSF 304668.
Shirlee
-
One of the records for Helen in 1818 states gender unknown the other record female, there is also an unusual note on both records, “found in 1827” I have not seen that on records before.
JOHN RUSSELL/CATHERINE HENDERSON FRCH2V26 FOUND IN 1827
Maybe one is from the original register and the other later transcripts, I’m not sure.
I bet Forfarian will.
Colin
-
You're very kind, ColC. Thank you. But I fear that I am going to disappoint you.
I can only see one reference on SP to the baptism of h*l*n r*s*l, mother h*nd*, in 1818. That is the one you referred to with "FRCH2V26 FOUND IN 1827".
This could be a quirk of SP - I have often imagined that something I found there before is not appearing on a later search, but maybe I wasn't imagining it at all! I'll have a look again later.
FRCH2V26 is a weird reference. Normally you get a reference starting with FRxxx when the record is out of chronological sequence and therefore not on the page where you would expect to find it, but on Page xxx. This isn't important if you are using SP but knowing what xxx is (and how it relates to the page numbering in the original book) can save you a lot of time if you're scrolling through a microfilm.
I've never seen one with 'found in yyyy' before.
-
Thank you both ColC and Forfarian, but having also had dialogue with ScotlandsPeople it turns that CH2 is "Church of Scotland kirk sessions, presbyteries, synods and other bodies (NRS reference CH2), 1569-2006"
This entry: RUSSELL HELEN JOHN RUSSELL/CATHERINE HENDERSON FRCH2V26 FOUND IN 1827 U 11/11/1818 479/260 19 Falkirk
was found in: "Kirk sessions records, births and baptisms, 1784-1860, marriages 1783-1784, proclamations of marriage, 1855-1860, Falkirk GS film 304668".
It seems that CH2 record can be found on FamilySearch as "Kirk session minutes, CH2/400/13, November 1803-January 1833 GS Film 4101322" but it is hasn't been indexed yet.
Thank you for all your help. :) :) :)
Shirlee
from a very wet Wellington, NZ
-
Shirlee, do try to forget about FamilySearch and concentrate on Scotland's People. The information on FamilySearch is very useful as a finding aid, but basically it is an index to the original records at Scotland's People.
-
I’m glad you have managed to sort out the two entries, which only show if you search for both genders.
RUSSELL HELEN JOHN RUSSELL/CATHERINE HENDERSON FRCH2V26 FOUND IN 1827 U 11/11/1818 479/ 260 19 Falkirk
RUSSELL HELEN JOHN RUSSELL/CATHERINE HENDERSON FRCH2V26 FOUND IN 1827 F 11/11/1818 479/ 50 0 Falkirk
Regards from Soggy Scotland, Colin
-
Weird or what. I ran exactly the same search again - h*l*n* r*s*l in 1818, both genders, and both entries appeared.
479 is the number for the parish of Falkirk
The next number is usually the volume number, but both 50 and 260 are too large - I am quite sure that the parish of Falkirk wouldn't have run to 260 volumes
The final number is usually the page, but Page 0 is peculiar
Have you actually viewed both originals to see if they are identical?
Best wishes from non-soggy Scotland, where it was a lovely warm sunny day yesterday and is dry so far with a howling gale today.