RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Tees on Friday 06 September 19 00:30 BST (UK)
-
Hi Rootschatters,
Last month I finally have a breakthrough on my great grandmother's birth record and her family. I managed to trace her family back to 1801.
She was born at Coombe Hospital on 8th February 1873. Her given address is 21 Whitefriars Street.
Her father Mathew Deegan married her mum in 1871. He was a coach maker and that his father is Mathew Deegan, a car owner.
He died between 1871 and 1876. His wife remarried in 1876.
I found two death records on IrishGenealogy but no images. I ordered them and got them.
It turned out both Mathew Deegan(s) are cab man on both records.
One died aged 57 at 21 Whitefriars Street of brain disease.
Other died aged 48 at St. Vincent Hospital. No given address.
I also found a possible grandmother for my great gran as she was named Mary Ann Rose. I tracked down and found one Rose Deegan, who is a widow of carman two streets away, died aged 60 in 1880.
Do you think I get this family sorted out? I think Mathew aged 57 is my great gran's grandfather and her father is Mathew aged 48?
what do you think?
I welcome your constructive feedback or input.
Thanks,
Tees
-
One died aged 57 at 21 Whitefriars Street of brain disease.
Other died aged 48 at St. Vincent Hospital. No given address.
Who were the informants on the certs?
-
I just attached the certs. :)
They look like they are neighbours.
-
Attached record is Rose Deegan's death entry.
-
Hi again,
As to why I made a connection between my great gran and Rose Deegan, her name is Mary Ann Rose Deegan on her baptism record: https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/8301840076405?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fname2fm%3D%26name2l%3D%26namefm%3D%26namel%3DDeegan%2B%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D1873%26yyto%3D1873%26submit%3DSearch%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26diocese%3D%26parish%3D%26century%3D%26decade%3D%26ddBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26keyword%3D%26event%3D (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/8301840076405?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fname2fm%3D%26name2l%3D%26namefm%3D%26namel%3DDeegan%2B%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D1873%26yyto%3D1873%26submit%3DSearch%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26diocese%3D%26parish%3D%26century%3D%26decade%3D%26ddBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26keyword%3D%26event%3D)
It can be found on NLI, too.
I believe that it is her grandmother. I couldn’t figure out how this godparent Margaret Deegan is related to us.
I also found Mathew Deegan and his sister Ann in the baptism records. Their parents are Mathew Deegan and Rose Manning. His sister’s record is more clear than his regarding his mother’s surname.
It would be lovely to have their parents’ marriage record but I couldn’t find it?
Anyway, now you have a connection between the names. I think Ann Deegan might have passed away. That could be why my great gran have her name along with her grandmother’s. Not sure about Mary?
Regards,
Tees
-
Have you ruled this one out?
Party 1 Name MATTHEW DEEGAN
Party 2 Name ELIZA BURNS
Date of Event 04 September 1871
-
If I am reading the dates and ages on those two certificates correctly then one Matthew would only be 11 years old when the other is born, so they cannot be her father and grandfather.
-
Hi Hallmark,
I was referring to Mathew’s parents’ marriage record.
Yes, that is my great gran’s parents’ marriage.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Craclyn,
Forgive me for saying this, I do not take ages literally on those carts as you have to remember in those days people only knew their approximate ages and people who reported their deaths are not the relatives.
You do not take all the information in account. That is how it looks like to me.
Thank you for your input.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Looking at the ages which may/not be accurate -you have
Matthew died 1875 age 48yrs - approx yob 1827
Matthew died 1873 aged 57 yrs - approx yob 1816
There are baptisms
1827 St Andrews Matthew Deegan - parents Michael and Anna
1817 St Andrews Matthew Duigan - parents Neil and Maria
Do any of these feature in your family?
-
Hi Rootschatters,
I wanted to add this proof as to why I said that her father died prior to 1876.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1876/11169/8091935.pdf
Her mum remarried to Edward Lyons on 7th May 1876.
Before you tell me that it is not a correct marriage entry, it is because my great gran did state her parentage on her US marriage record in 1903. She said her father is Edward Lyons Deegan and her mum Eliza Burns.
Also, if you looked at her mum’s occupation which is dressmaker which is on both entries and her father is Thomas James and house painter/painter on both entries.
I do not know why she did not declare that she is a widow or stated that her maiden name is not Deegan or used her married name for her father’s surname.
How did I know I have a right couple? Well, Edward Lyons registered his firstborn and he stated that Eliza is Lyons formerly Deegan previously Burns!
Here is their first born child Luke to this union:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1877/03012/2103791.pdf
He died in 1879. Poor him but the couple went on having children up to 1890.
Eliza died in 1893.
I am trying to determine which Edward’s death entries is mine. But, I feel it is “not important” because he is not of my linear ancestor but married to my great gran’s mum.
She is the only child from Eliza’s first marriage.
Hope this further information helps.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Hi Heywood,
The fathers on these baptism records are not mine. You appear to disregard Mathew’s marriage record. He stated his father is Mathew.
I have many records on my ancestors whose ages are off the mark. This is mostly in Ireland.
I often do not take them seriously. I am sorry that we would have to respectfully agree to disagree on this point.
Ireland is the country with “spotty” records because of the destroyed censuses at various times and some church records were burnt up in the War of Independence. That is a national tragedy.
We have to remember that this area was the slums of Dublin which was my understanding.
Thanks,
Tees
-
Hi again,
It seems that My great grandmother wanted to acknowledge both of her fathers at the same time on her marriage record. She might did not know her father’s name, only her maiden surname.
It took a very kind Dubliner to tell me that we should trust her mum and followed her in the marriage records.
Now it is why she put down two surnames instead of one surname for the father.
As to this post, before any of you start arguing with me about the ages.
I only wanted to know which is the father’s death entry?
I feel 57 is too old to marry Eliza and that 47 seems “right”. Trouble is that it is difficult to determine without the census information. Ages were notoriously wrong in this era as well.
I only throw in Grandfather in because there are few Mathew Deegans on IrishGenealogy site and that both are in the same field of work.
Thank you,
Tees
-
I haven’t disregarded any records you have posted quite the contrary.
I am not interested in agreeing or disagreeing with you. I am just trying to help you.
I am illustrating that there are possible baptisms which could be the two Matthews’ deaths you have posted.
It would seem that Matthew Deegan and Rose Manning married in 1831 which, and in this case I do agree with you, would exclude those baptisms but additionally the ages of the deceased Matthews would have to very much off the mark, as you state.
Best wishes in your searches
Regards
Heywood
-
PS I found Eliza’s age on her death entry to be wrong as well. It was 5 years off. I have her baptism record. That is why I do not take ages on the death certificates seriously.
-
Whitefriar Street may be significant in your search although as with ages, addresses also changed.
-
Thanks, Heywood, appreciate your kind words!
I was focusing on how to determine which Mathew is mine.
I did not expect to have two Mathew death entries showing same occupation in the same timeframe.
That’s why I was hoping someone here would assist me.
I can live without a grandfather if necessary. I might be wrong about my idea...I am much interested in father.
Thanks for finding a 1831 marriage, I will go there and see if there is any further information to work with.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Matthew aged 57 yrs lived at 21 Whitefriar Street at the time of death.
The Lyons/Deegan marriage you posted was 25 Whitefriar Street.
-
Yes, Heywood, you are right!
I cannot discount another death entry as well.
That’s why my friend who obtained this record in person was surprised to see both entries showing same occupation.
I think Eliza couldn’t afford to support herself for three years without any husband if her first husband did die in 1873.
I am not sure how it was done in Dublin during this period. I know in rural areas as I am going by my other Great great grandmother down in Co Cork. She had to mourn for one year before re-marrying. That is what she did. I feel bad for her as she probably have to rely on her relatives nearby for some support.
So I figure it is 1875 one makes sense to me even if 21 Whitefriars Street is more significant.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Yes, you are right.
It is a shame that other Mathew entry failed to show his given address.
-
Heywood,
Where did you see the marriage record on Mathew Deegan and Rose Manning?
Also, I noticed many death entries are poorly informed. For example, they do not include name of one’s spouse. I am surprised by this.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
The marriage is in Catholic indexes on Ancestry and I searched with your information.
It is here in the parish records. It can barely be read.
The date is December 4th 1831 and is at the bottom of the right hand page.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633552#page/101/mode/1up
I think you mention a sister Ann. There is a baptism in 1840. There would likely be several births between marriage and Ann’s birth.
I am confused re the various generations and people mentioned but I found these baptismal entries - all with the address 21 Whitefriar Street.
Mary Ann Rose Deegan 1873 (I know we already have her but just to mention) Sponsor: Margaret Deegan
Regina Sophia Berenour 1867 sponsor Rose Deegan
Frederick Charles Bernernne 1871 sponsor Mary Anne Deegan
Spelling /transcription difficulties with that surname, I presume.
-
Good spotting these baptisms, I did see them.
I did find twin boys born to Rose and Matthew at the st. Nicholas’ church.
Yes, it is barely readable on the marriage record! I couldn’t make out the witnesses’ names. Many thanks for finding this record!
Does Church record burials like CoI did? I am wondering if Mathew, the grandfather might have died before?
If we were to accept 21 Whitefriars Street death entry as my great gran’s father’s, what about her grandfather’s death?
-
Sorry - who is her grandfather?
-
Her father and grandfather had same name: Mathew Deegan.
-
I told you I was confused.
Is this the baptism of Matthew - son of Matthew and Rose? Mother is transcribed as Rose Mary but if you look at the record it could say ‘Man’g’ or ‘Mang’.
Other mother’s surnames are entered so I would think that it should be a surname. If he is yours, I am sure you already have it.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01obf/
-
We both are confused!
How to disentangle two death entries?
That’s why I am surprised that there is no sure way to verify which entry is my great gran’s father.
That’s why I searched for names going by her name and found her father’s baptism record.
Then, searching for Rose Deegan’s death, found her and she is the only one who was down as a widow of carman.
That means her husband could have died some years back. Was that her husband aged 57 or not? Or was he died earlier?
I will search on his brothers to see if they stated their father died or not. If they got married after 1864, great! If not, I am stuck....
-
https://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/index.xml
Mathew Deegan 67 yrs burial Glasnevin cemetery 1873
(Perhaps age transcribed wrongly in one of the records)
Make sure you type the first name as above - only 1 ‘t’. I also included Whitefriar Street in address box. There is a charge.
I haven’t found the other Matthew.
There is also a Rose Deegan in 1880 but she is shown as 72 yrs of age. I haven’t seen another Rose death so might be worth trying.
-
Thomas Burns and Dorinda Bird 1889
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10742/5916952.pdf
with nephew Edward Lyons
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Mansion_House/Redmond_s_Hill/1343763/
possible parents Thomas Byrne and Susan Morton
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=d-344-3-2-093
Glasnevin shows first Mathew 1873 as age 67
second one 1875 as 45
you could get the full readout from each grave for about 8euro for each grave details are on the site
https://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/index.xml
-
Dathai,
That is great finding on Edward Lyons! He is my great gran’s half brother.
I do not know the couple. I know Eliza had a brother named Thomas. There were two or three Thomas born and two died to her parents.
*You got a right Thomas Burns! Indeed, he is ours!!! Great finding!!!*
Hope you can find Edward Lyons, his father. It will help me a lot in narrowing down the death entries. I found one showing him as a stone cutter but not a widower but married. I do not know if it is handfast or not? He was 57 in this entry. I did look up on the marriage entries and narrowed to one but it shows that his father is not Luke and a sailor?? That is not him. But, this entry is the only one showing that he is a stone cutter.
I know that he was from Co Carlow according to the church marriage records I found on him. And that his father is Luke, stonecutter.
Many thanks!!
Heywood,
That is great finding! Dathai also found that record.
That means 57 years old is very likely to be a grandfather.
Thanks again,
Tees!!
-
I forgot to say that Eliza Burns’ father is Thomas James Burns and her mother is Susanna Burns née Ingram. I already went back to 1824 on Ingram side. I am still working on finding her parents’ marriage record. They are Jame Ingram and Jane. I found James’ 1801 baptism and 1881 death records. I know I have a right death certificate because Eliza’s sister reported his death. 👍
I am waiting on Jane Ingram’s death record before deciding on which one of two is mine.
I also think I found a record on Thomas James’ service records but I couldn’t verify if it is his or not. I do find few siblings of his. I know his father is Henry Burns, the shopkeeper. One brother stated he is a peddler on his marriage record!
All of them are CoI.
-
I know that Edward Lyons and Eliza Burns have children:
Josephine (found her in Census forgot which one) and it looks like she was a single having a baby in one of workhouse records and she stayed in there for most of her childhood? Not sure if I got this right.
Bridget a twin baby I couldn’t prove if I have her marriage record
Luke a twin baby both were born in 1890. I found his marriage record. It does not say if his father was dead by then or not. I think I found him in Celbridge at some kind of school? Not sure why he ended up there, not with his relatives.
Margaret
I think Catherine?
Two Luke’s were born but died.
Along with my great gran Mary Deegan—she always called herself Mary.
I would have to look at my file on my PC later on.
Now I am awfully glad I did post this topic!
Many thanks for your help now and in advance,
Tees
-
Susan
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Pembroke_West/Upper_Baggot_Street/1287030/
George Boucher and Susan Burns 1879
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11082/8055582.pdf
-
Susan
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Pembroke_West/Upper_Baggot_Street/1287030/
George Boucher and Susan Burns 1879
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11082/8055582.pdf
I did find them, thanks for confirming that I am right with my findings.
I am keen on finding my Mary Deegan in 1901 Census for she left Ireland in 1902 for America.
Also, her step-father Edward Lyons, it will help me a lot in determine when he died or not.
Many thanks, Dathai!!
-
This may be relevant but occupation will bother you
Your death of Rose shows address as 86 Camden Street.
There is a marriage 1877
Mary Ann Deegan, 60 Camden Street
Father Matthew, labourer
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1877/11125/8073511.pdf
-
Good news though
Witnesses to Mary Anne’ marriage to Michael Caldwell were James and Roseanna Sweeney.
Their marriage with father Matthew , Car Owner
1873 - 21 Whitefriar Street
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11272/8134199.pdf
-
Heywood,
Good finding! If you see the occupation of her husband, he is a car owner. It means he probably knows her father and brother.
I noticed that many women will just stated that their fathers’ occupation labourer despite the fact they are in specific industry or field.
Thank you!! I think I better use PC soon.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
number 35 Rose Coleman is her mother
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633734#page/68/mode/1up
-
Good news though
Witnesses to Mary Anne’ marriage to Michael Caldwell were James and Roseanna Sweeney.
Their marriage with father Matthew , Car Owner
1873 - 21 Whitefriar Street.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11272/8134199.pdf
You are right!! I knew I had seen their names before when seeing Mary Ann’s marriage
-
number 35 Rose Coleman is her mother
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633734#page/68/mode/1up
Does that mean she is not ours?
Umm....
-
number 35 Rose Coleman is her mother
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633734#page/68/mode/1up
Oh dear!
-
Happy to report that our Deegans you found at Glasvenin are OURS!!!
Mathew Deegan was listed as a car owner on this record!
Rose Deegan was a wife of a car owner!
Get this! Are you ready???
They were buried with the Sweeneys: James in 1892 and Roseanna in 1919 (the witnesses) and they are horse dealer/wife of horse dealer. And a child named Frances Tidswell. Also, James Sweeney aged 7 months old in 1883.
How are they related to us??
-
Irish genealogy has
Mary Anne Deegan baptised 1843 with parents Matthew and Rose Mahony
And
Rose Deegan baptised 1845 with parents Matthew and Rose Mahon
Both these names appear as sponsors to children from Whitefriar Street - earlier post.
Could Mahon/Mahony/Manning and Coleman be same person
Just seen post re Glasnevin - great news!
-
Irish genealogy has
Mary Anne Deegan baptised 1843 with parents Matthew and Rose Mahony
And
Rose Deegan baptised 1845 with parents Matthew and Rose Mahon
Both these names appear as sponsors to children from Whitefriar Street - earlier post.
Could Mahon/Mahony/Manning and Coleman be same person
Just seen post re Glasnevin - great news!
I wonder, too.
I have seen them myself. I just “ignore” them because of the different surnames.
I would have to ring my bank to authorise me a purchase then I can top up my credits to see if younger Mathew Deegan is ours. I am confident he is.
-
Yes I feel that he is the right person.
Here is the birth of James Sweeny to James and Rose.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1882/02783/2021907.pdf
-
It is a bit strange that I couldn't find wee James Sweeney who died 7 months old in 1883 on Irish Gen site.
Found Frances Tidswell but it does not show any relation to us??
Still cannot locate James' death record.
-
James Doyle and Mary Anne Sweeney of 4 Longford St 1900
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1900/10364/5772938.pdf
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Mansion_House/Cuffe_Street/1342709/
mother
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Royal_Exchange/Longford_Street_Great/1308011/
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Mansion_House/Cuffe_Street/73676/
-
Dathai,
I am impressed with your findings!
Many thanks! So the Doyle couple--is that daughter of Rose and James Sweeney if I go by her age, is that right?
Thanks again,
Tees
PS I am going to top up the credits on Glasnevin soon.
-
Dathai,
Norah Sweeney you found for me. She married a William Tidswell and had a daughter Frances who was buried with her aunt and uncle and grandparents along with her cousin James.
I will try again to find her death record.
Many thanks for your findings,
Tees
-
What I found out is that Mathew Deegan lived at 21 1/2 South Richmond Street, Dublin and he was a car driver. Informant was Sarah Deegan of the same address. Who was she??
He was buried with Mary Whyte who died in 1949, Patrick Whyte in 1937, Anne Mullen in 1910--a single but was informed by Patrick Whyte, Josephine Cecilia White is daughter of Mary and Patrick in 1896, and Patrick Tierney, son of Joseph and Mary in 1903.
Who are they? I tried to trace them but I could not figure out how they are related to us?
Little disappointed because I spent 10 euros.
Now I am very curious about Whytes and Tierneys. I am surprised by the name of Josephine Cecilia White as that was the name my great granny gave to her firstborn. Think there is some connection between the Deegans and the Whytes. Possibly cousins?
-
I think younger Mathew Deegan may have married before and he was married to a Sarah Kane on 19 or 29 January 1855 (it looks like it is 19th but transcription says otherwise).
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/9d226a0094268?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3DMathew%26namel%3DDeegan%26exact%3D%26name2fm%3D%26name2l%3D%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26diocese%3D%26parish%3D%26century%3D%26decade%3D%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26ddBfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26event%3DM%26keyword%3D%26submit%3DSearch (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/9d226a0094268?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3DMathew%26namel%3DDeegan%26exact%3D%26name2fm%3D%26name2l%3D%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26diocese%3D%26parish%3D%26century%3D%26decade%3D%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26ddBfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26event%3DM%26keyword%3D%26submit%3DSearch)
I have found two daughters to this couple but no Sarah Deegan.
It might be why she was his informant as she might be in her late teens or 20 by time of her father's passing?
I need to look for this Sarah Deegan's baptism to ascertain this plus a death cert for Sarah Deegan (wife). She last had a baby in 1864.
-
Could not find a baptism for Sarah Deegan or her mother Sarah.
Maybe I am barking up a wrong tree?
I do believe I have my great gran's father's death record. It is a bit bothersome when I do not know who a relation is.
Hope a fresh pair of eyes could see something I do not see?
-
Norah Sweeney married William A Tidswell in 1908. It appears they had a child before they got married. I do not know how serious was that back in early 20th century Dublin?
Norah's father is James Sweeney and his occupation is spot on.
Still could not find their child's birth record.
-
Have you tried a search like this on
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/ ?
use 1830 to 1840 or whatever you want
then Select Dublin from results plus Religion
then Marriage or Births from list on list... see who Married Deegans etc etc...
-
Yes, Hallmark.
-
Pity they aren't in Registers!
-
Finally I found Josephine Cecilia Whyte on Find My Past website. She is the daughter of deceased Mary and Patrick Whyte.
I think it is not my family.
Will try the marriage record now.
I think my Deegan was buried with strangers. Oh, dear me for wasting good 10 euros. I thought I would hit another jackpot. ::)
-
The Whyte couples were: Patrick of Patrick and Julia and Mary Ellen Jones of Shephard and Dorothea.
I do not think the people are our relations at all.
-
I will retire for night now as I have been at this topic since 4 AM. :)
I would appreciate a wee help with finding out who this Sarah Deegan is.
I do hope we do have my Great Gran's father.
Thanks so much for your understanding and patience.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
William Coker married Rosanna Deegan 1887 church register says her parents Mathew and Sarah both decd
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1887/10811/5942951.pdf
or
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633500#page/91/mode/1up
1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Trinity/Cumberland_Street_South/1310083/
1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/South_Dock/Wentworth_Place/86678/
a Sarah Deegan age 47 a widow died in workhouse 1878 buried Glasnevin
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1878/020495/7192019.pdf
unnamed female 1867
306
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03476/2277063.pdf
-
Hi Dathai,
That is good finding on Rosanna Deegan. She looks like she is too young to be Mathew’s sister? Very likely to be his daughter?
It appears my Mathew is not this Mathew aged 47? Or was he a bigamist?
I did see a church marriage between him and Sarah. I will have to find it again.
I am wondering if I am looking at wrong Mathew? Or that my great gran was correct about her real parentage at time of her death where she stated that it is Michael Symth and Mary Deegan?
I am so confused now. The latter information was given by my great uncle on her death certificate.
The burial details I got from the cemetery tied up nicely because we have a 1833 baptism record. And we know he works as a coach maker or cab driver down on his burial record.
And that we have older Mathew Deegan buried with Rose Deegan. The occupation matched with the information on the marriage certificate we have.
I was wondering if Sarah was his sister but it looks like it is not?
Any suggestion? Explanation?
I am afraid of my Deegans now. 😅
Many thanks,
Tees
-
Here is 1855 Marriage record found at the St. Nicholas which seems to be the family church: https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.nicholas_mf_1822-1880_ma_0069 (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.nicholas_mf_1822-1880_ma_0069)
They were married on either 19th or 29th January 1855. Sarah’s maiden name is Kane. They could have a bunch of children by then?
Mathew would have been 22 which is a good age to marry.
Is this the same Mathew we are looking at or he did marry other woman at the same time?Could this explain why he and Eliza Burns got married in the Registry Office?
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Here is Rosannah’s baptism record she was under surname of Dugan, not Deegan, but the parents are Matthew and Sarah Kane on 27th August 1867.
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=harrington-street_mf_1865-1890_ba_0056 (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=harrington-street_mf_1865-1890_ba_0056)
Another daughter named Mary Anne Deegan to the same parents on 28th January 1864.
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.nicholas_mf_1862-1874_ba_0326 (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.nicholas_mf_1862-1874_ba_0326)
Unidentifiable baptism record took a place before their marriage? In 1853?
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/8cb5160330012?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3DSarah%26namel%3DKane%26exact%3D%26name2fm%3D%26name2l%3D%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26diocese%3D%26parish%3D%26century%3D%26decade%3D%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26ddBfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26event%3DB%26keyword%3D%26submit%3DSearch (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/8cb5160330012?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3DSarah%26namel%3DKane%26exact%3D%26name2fm%3D%26name2l%3D%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26diocese%3D%26parish%3D%26century%3D%26decade%3D%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26ddBfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26event%3DB%26keyword%3D%26submit%3DSearch)
Another daughter was born to them: Sara Deegan but she was down as Sara Dugan to the same parents on 9th August 1857:
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.nicholas_mf_1823-1853_ba_0375 (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.nicholas_mf_1823-1853_ba_0375)
Another daughter was born to this couple named Mary Anne Deegan on 14 March 1864:
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.nicholas_mf_1862-1874_ba_0326 (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.nicholas_mf_1862-1874_ba_0326)
Another daughter named Elizabeth Deegan was born on 15 the Jan 1860:
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.nicholas_mf_1862-1874_ba_0326 (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st.nicholas_mf_1862-1874_ba_0326)
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=rathmines_mf_1823-1886_ba_0505 (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=rathmines_mf_1823-1886_ba_0505)
Not sure why they have two baptism records for same daughter at two different churches??
It appears this couple have only daughters, no sons.
I think Mathew probably want to try another shot with a different wife or woman to see if he could get a son?
Or are we chasing a wrong Mathew? Could he have died somewhere else?
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Hello again,
I got an e-mail from the cemetery. They said it does not have to be his wife, it could be his sister or sister in law.
I look up on IrishGen and saw several Kavanagh baptisms with mother Sarah Deegan. Worth exploring?
I will try Ancestry to find more information.
My question is: how common is it to be bigamist in the slums (do not like using this word) of Dublin?
Kind regards,
Tees
-
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/387cb70450204?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fname2fm%3DSara%26name2l%3D%26namefm%3DWilliam%26namel%3DCavanagh%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26submit%3DSearch%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26diocese%3DDUBLIN%2B%2528RC%2529%26parish%3D%26century%3D%26decade%3D%26ddBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26keyword%3D (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/387cb70450204?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fname2fm%3DSara%26name2l%3D%26namefm%3DWilliam%26namel%3DCavanagh%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26submit%3DSearch%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26diocese%3DDUBLIN%2B%2528RC%2529%26parish%3D%26century%3D%26decade%3D%26ddBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26keyword%3D)
Now I think this Sarah Kane was a Deegan and did not marry him until 1871.
It might mean this Kane originally married Mathew? Or was she a Deegan?
This is only marriage I could found with a female named Sarah but her surname is Kerins.
Will try Ancestry later on.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/eb15690212271?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3DWilliam%26namel%3DKavanagh%26exact%3D%26name2fm%3DSara%26name2l%3D%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26diocese%3DDUBLIN%2B%2528RC%2529%26parish%3D%26century%3D%26decade%3D%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26ddBfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26event%3DB%26keyword%3D%26submit%3DSearch (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/eb15690212271?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3DWilliam%26namel%3DKavanagh%26exact%3D%26name2fm%3DSara%26name2l%3D%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26diocese%3DDUBLIN%2B%2528RC%2529%26parish%3D%26century%3D%26decade%3D%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26ddBfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26event%3DB%26keyword%3D%26submit%3DSearch)
This is the first born baby to this couple: William in 1854 but it shows a godparent Thomas Degan
Another baptism for the same name baby in 1858 but shows his mother Sarah Deegan and godparent Patrick Deegan
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/3f9d820221402?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3DWilliam%26namel%3DKavanagh%26exact%3D%26name2fm%3DSara%26name2l%3D%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26diocese%3DDUBLIN%2B%2528RC%2529%26parish%3D%26century%3D%26decade%3D%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26ddBfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26event%3DB%26keyword%3D%26submit%3DSearch (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/3f9d820221402?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3DWilliam%26namel%3DKavanagh%26exact%3D%26name2fm%3DSara%26name2l%3D%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26diocese%3DDUBLIN%2B%2528RC%2529%26parish%3D%26century%3D%26decade%3D%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26ddBfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26event%3DB%26keyword%3D%26submit%3DSearch)
John Kavanagh was born in 1851: https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ea66540328714?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3DWilliam%26namel%3DKavanagh%26exact%3D%26name2fm%3DSara%26name2l%3D%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26diocese%3DDUBLIN%2B%2528RC%2529%26parish%3D%26century%3D%26decade%3D%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26ddBfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26event%3DB%26keyword%3D%26submit%3DSearch (https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/ea66540328714?b=https%3A%2F%2Fchurchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fsearch.jsp%3Fnamefm%3DWilliam%26namel%3DKavanagh%26exact%3D%26name2fm%3DSara%26name2l%3D%26location%3D%26yyfrom%3D%26yyto%3D%26diocese%3DDUBLIN%2B%2528RC%2529%26parish%3D%26century%3D%26decade%3D%26sort%3D%26pageSize%3D100%26ddBfrom%3D%26mmBfrom%3D%26yyBfrom%3D%26ddMfrom%3D%26mmMfrom%3D%26yyMfrom%3D%26ddDfrom%3D%26mmDfrom%3D%26yyDfrom%3D%26ddBto%3D%26mmBto%3D%26yyBto%3D%26ddMto%3D%26mmMto%3D%26yyMto%3D%26ddDto%3D%26mmDto%3D%26yyDto%3D%26locationB%3D%26locationM%3D%26locationD%3D%26member0%3D%26member1%3D%26member2%3D%26member3%3D%26member4%3D%26member5%3D%26member6%3D%26member7%3D%26member8%3D%26member9%3D%26namef0%3D%26namef1%3D%26namef2%3D%26namef3%3D%26namef4%3D%26namef5%3D%26namef6%3D%26namef7%3D%26namef8%3D%26namef9%3D%26namel0%3D%26namel1%3D%26namel2%3D%26namel3%3D%26namel4%3D%26namel5%3D%26namel6%3D%26namel7%3D%26namel8%3D%26namel9%3D%26event%3DB%26keyword%3D%26submit%3DSearch)
It shows a godparent Esther Deegan
I do see several more baptism with mother Sarah but no maiden surname.
Is it possible that this Sarah Deegan is his sister, sister in law, aunt or cousin?
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Just to say, I have not deserted you but I read the other thread and got quite mixed up between the various names and generations.
I will keep my eye on the thread :)
-
I don’t want to repeat information you already have so apologies if so:
Am I right that you think that Edward Lyons and Eliza Burns are part of you search.
If so this is possibly Eliza’s death.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/05987/4702826.pdf
-
I'm beginning to get confused.
Tees.... http://www.rootschat.com/links/ will shrink the long links you are posting.
It can be found at bottom of page... I right-click on it and Open it new Tab , put long Link in and shrink it, then post the shrunken Link in your post on your post tab.
-
Shrink will turn post#50 into this
I think younger Mathew Deegan may have married before and he was married to a Sarah Kane on 19 or 29 January 1855 (it looks like it is 19th but transcription says otherwise).
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01obr/
I have found two daughters to this couple but no Sarah Deegan.
It might be why she was his informant as she might be in her late teens or 20 by time of her father's passing?
I need to look for this Sarah Deegan's baptism to ascertain this plus a death cert for Sarah Deegan (wife). She last had a baby in 1864.
-
Just to say, I have not deserted you but I read the other thread and got quite mixed up between the various names and generations.
I will keep my eye on the thread :)
Aw, thanks! Appreciate it very much!
Always good to have other eyes to help me out.
I am just hopeful I do not make a blunder with my genealogy.
-
I don’t want to repeat information you already have so apologies if so:
Am I right that you think that Edward Lyons and Eliza Burns are part of you search.
If so this is possibly Eliza’s death.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/05987/4702826.pdf
Yes, that’s right death entry. I do have it. That’s why I said she died in 1893.
-
Thank you, Hallmark, for that neat tool. I have no idea why the link is so long.
My apologies!
-
Hello again!
I find a connection between Manning and White families! I couldn’t prove prove how they are related.
On Irish Gen, there are a lot of relationships between these families!
There was a Rose Manning was baptised in 1826 and her record had a witness named Anna White and other with a surname of Todd. Her father is Thomas Manning. But, she cannot be my younger Mathew’s mother. More like his cousin?
I do not see any Rose Manning record that fits her birth year of 1818 if we were to take her age on her burial record to be correct one. I hope I did my maths correctly! I saw an older one from 1808.
I have collected all the children or younger Mathew’s siblings. I will list them tomorrow (rather this morning) for you.
I find two brothers named Philip and Joseph under Dugan on Ancestry whereas on IrishGen under Deegan or Degan. This might be our clue to the names of their grandfathers. We can safely stated that younger Mathew is named after his father.
I think there might be more children but they are probably missing because some records might be destroyed in the fire during the War of Independence.
I will have to research more on this Patrick Whyte. I also found a marriage record from 1875 showing Thomas White Manning, son of Thomas White Manning marrying Sarah Manning. They might be cousins to each other??
I believe we have our younger Mathew Deegan after all. I am not sure about this Sarah Deegan. Hopefully, we can work together and find an answer to this connection.
I would be very surprised if he is a bigamist and I would be quite embarrassed about this fact as it is being in the public! It could explain why Mathew and Eliza had to marry in the registry office in north Dublin away from prying eyes?
Also, looking at some baptism records, there are some connection between Kane or Kean and Manning and White families.
I think everyone was somehow related to each other in this area of Dublin.
I also wonder if Mathew’s first wife might had died prior to 1871? Again, I am only guessing.
Kind regards,
Tees who is supposed to be in bed now (it is 1:16 am here)
PS Will “see” you tomorrow.
-
Hello again,
I could only find these baptism records on Mathew Deegan's siblings:
1. Matthew 1833
2. Philip and Joseph twin boys 1836
3. Anne 1840
4. Mary Anne (shows Mum as a Mahony) 1843
5. Rose (shows Mum as a Mahon) 1845
I think Dathai found their parents' marriage or was it Hallmark? Anyway, they got married in 1831 and it shows Mum as Rose Manning.
I do have a difficult time finding Rose Manning's baptism record just to prove her surname is Manning or not.
Only baptism record I could find was Rose Ann Manning born to Thomas and Mary Manning in 1798. But there is a Manning couple: Thomas and Rose with children born about the same timeframe as the birth year down on Rose Deegan's burial record which stated she was born in 1808. This couple got married in 1805.
I did collect some Manning baptisms. I do not know if you would be interested in them?
I find this marriage to be of an interest: http://www.rootschat.com/links/01oby/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01oby/)
(Thanks for your tutorial, Hallmark!)
This marriage shows there is a connection between Manning and White families. But how?
Also there was a baptism record showing Rose Manning in 1826 showing a witness Anna White.
I tried to find Patrick Whyte's baptism record but I am overwhelmed with many Patrick Whyte with same father Patrick Whyte. Which is his?
I also found children born to Matthew Deegan and Sarah Kane:
1. Elizabeth 1860 shows Mum as a Kean
2. Mary Ann 1864
3. Female Deegan 1867 This birth record shows Mathew is a carman. This is the ONLY birth certificate we have on this child. No baptism record.
I cannot find 1864 birth certificate for Mary Ann. Only the baptism record for her.
I am afraid that we are looking at a bigamist OR that Sarah Deegan did died before him. And she is one of his relatives. I am not sure!!
Do look at the year 1867 which is the last year for his children which might indicates that his wife might be deceased by 1871.
That could be the reason for him to remarry again. I do not know why he did not state that he is a widower on the marriage certificate to my great great grandmother?
Too many names to work with. I am slowly going in circles.
Kind regards,
Tees
PS I found Edward Lyons' baptism record. Very interesting. But cannot find his parents' but I think I have his father's second marriage. Not sure yet.
-
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01obz/ (http://www.rootschat.com/links/01obz/)
I do not see their marriage entry in St Andrew's register book?
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633481#page/34/mode/1up (https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633481#page/34/mode/1up)
Please see if you can see it?
Thanks!!
-
Hello again,
I realised I have repeated myself on Matthew and Sarah's children.
Now I see that I did identify the unknown Deegan female birth certificate.
Wondering why there is no certificate for their daughter that was born in 1864?
Also, I have checked death records on Sarah Deegan. Apparently, she died as Dathai found her death record. Should we not check if she remarried? Your thoughts?
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Hello again,
Before I turn in for a night, I just found a baptism record on Sarah Kane.
It does match with the age on her burial record where she was down as 52.
Tomorrow I will get credits to purchase it.
Is it worth to buy extended record or just focus on her?
Thanks again!
Tees
-
Update: it turned out that the burial record on Sarah Deegan and she was down as a widow of car driver. The person who informed the cemetery was Pierce O’Neil of 8 Lower Camden Street.
The genealogist there thinks we might have a wrong Mathew Deegan. She says it could be a cousin with same name working in the same field?
How do we go about proving this? I only found three death entries between 1871 and 1876.
I await your expertise.
Thanks for your help in advance,
Tees
-
Hello All,
I think we have an explanation for why Mathew Deegan had another "wife".
It turned out that a term "dressmaker" is frequently used for a prostitute. :o
Do read this link on the census information I had forgotten about this part until today. http://sites.rootsweb.com/~fianna/guide/census.html (http://sites.rootsweb.com/~fianna/guide/census.html) in the section where it says General Comments on 1841-1891.
It makes me wondering how do we know if one is an actual dressmaker and other is not?? Ummm…
Why should a prostitute marry? As a way to ensuring in receiving a child support?
I feel even more sorry for my great grandmother. At least, she knows her parentage.
Kind regards,
Tees
-
Another good links to read and they are on RC: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=663126.9 (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=663126.9)
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=292299.0 (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=292299.0)
-
William Andrew Tidswell Aka William Henry Tidswell died in 1929 in Yorkshire. He was a bigamist and travelling musician. He had 8 children to his first wife who he never divorced and 4 children to Norah. He converted to Catholicism in 1908 to marry Norah and that is when his middle name changed. On the 1901 census he was C of E (He was actually baptised in Wesleyan Methodist Chapel Denholme Yorkshire)and 1911 Census as Catholic. He died in 1929 in York as Wiliam H Tidswell. Volume9d Page 46. Aged 73