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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Tackrill on Sunday 15 September 19 11:46 BST (UK)
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Dear all,
Please could someone assist? I'm desperately trying to solve a mystery about an individual.
A relative, James Robert Logan, Son of Emily Logan & born 1920 in Hull had a half brother whom I'm trying to identify.
The individual is named as "Harry" on a memorial in Western Cemetery Hull & is buried with Emily Logan. I'm trying to find the surname & DOB/DOD of "Harry" if indeed that's his real name. I know that he died before 1991 as sadly all Emily's children died before her. I was hoping that someone may assist as I seem to be going around in circles. There is a "William H Logan" on the 1939 census who lived with an Emily Logan in Hull. Is there any convincing evidence that this is our man & could he have changed his surname to Logan as a stepson of Emily?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Dave
Louth
Lincolnshire
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If you have him in 1939, you will have a date of birth.
Was he single at that time?
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Is this your family?
Emily Farrel m Joseph W Pettman 1915 Sculcoates
Emily Pettman m William H Logan March quarter 1918 Sculcoates
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There is a birth for Joseph W Pettman mmn Farrel 1917 :-\
He died 1917
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There is this one :-\
William H Logan September quarter 1918 Sculcoates mmn Jarrow
Could that be an error?
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There is a death registration for William Henry Logan - Hull - June quarter 1986 - with date of birth given as 9 September 1918. This matches the date birth on 1939 Register.
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Is there an image of the headstone/memorial?
Who holds the burial/interrment records?
eg deceasedonline can tell you dates of burials as well as the names of the bodies.
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There is this one :-\
William H Logan September quarter 1918 Sculcoates mmn Jarrow
Could that be an error?
GRO say mmn = Tarrow :-\
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Hi all,
Thanks for the replies.. & oh so quickly. I'm fairly sure that the Farrell/Pettman/Logan line for Emily is correct & that Emily had Joseph W Pettman as a son who died less than a year old in 1917. However, from a photo of a memorial for Emily the name Harry is on it & not Joseph. This is why we are completely stumped! My partner vaguely remembers "uncle Harry" but I can find no record of a birth for him as either Farrel, Pettman or Logan... so who is he? :o Why would he be buried with Emily too?
Its all a bit of a mystery as we can no longer find the burial plot or memorial in Western cemetery Hull.
Dave
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If it's not being too intrusive - from the photograph of the memorial, what is the date given for Harry?
Does it tie in with the death registration in 1986?
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With same name as his father, and 'Harry' being a diminutive of Henry, I would suggest he was known by his second name rather than first. On official records he would of course have his full name as the 1939 register and death entry would testify.
Annette
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There is this one :-\
William H Logan September quarter 1918 Sculcoates mmn Jarrow
Could that be an error?
GRO say mmn = Tarrow :-\
Free BMD - Jarrow
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I would go for that birth in 1918 for William Henry to see what that says about the parents.
Young Joseph would be buried elsewhere in 1917 so the family may not have added his name to the memorial.
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Yes - Jarrow vs Tarrow. :-\ FreeBMD and the original printed page from GRO clearly show Jarrow, but then the new GRO facility has the surname as Tarrow :-* Someone has changed their mind :-\
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Yes - Jarrow vs Tarrow. :-\ FreeBMD and the original printed page from GRO clearly show Jarrow, but then the new GRO facility has the surname as Tarrow :-* Someone has changed their mind :-\
Let’s hope that it’s Farrel/l :)
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Western Cemetery
Emily Logan buried 6 Feb 1991, age 95
Compartment 336
Grave 32473
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39F-5933-B?i=314&cat=702378
William Henry Logan buried 2 Dec 1958, age 67
Compartment 336
Grave 32473
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G96P-633F?i=696&cat=702378
William Henry Logan buried 25 June 1986, age 67
Compartment 308
Grave 29836
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C39F-593Z-L?i=284&cat=702378
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Ah - so it's William Henry Senior and Emily in the same grave. :)
And Stella Logan has an interest in the other grave - 29836 - containing WHL Junior. WHL and Stella Johnson married 1971
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BumbleB,
Is that Harry then in 29836?
I wonder if Harry is just named on Emily’s grave rather than interred there. :-\
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Good question :) I was just going on the age at death for the two WHL :
1958 - 67 = 1891 (1939 = 28 February 1892) - same grave number as Emily
or
1986 - 67 = 1919 (1939 = 9 September 1918 + death registration) - different grave number
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I think that you have Emily and her second husband in the same grave and their oldest son in the other.
It maybe that Emily's first husband was the biological father but he was named for Emily's second husband and he was raised as such.
In 1939 I would guess that one of these Logan men had signed up and was away to war, the other at home with Emily.
The person who died first would have been in their 80's at the time of the second's death.
As the two men share the same name its likely that the younger one would be referred to as Harry?
Just pitching in because I'm a newbie and trying to find my way around.
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AND thanks to jonw65 for the Western Cemetery entries:
Emily's cemetery entry - "Particulars" column cites the probable/possible name of RJL's wife.
I haven't named her as she may very well be alive. Just look at the image submitted ;)
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AND thanks to jonw65 for the Western Cemetery entries:
You're welcome BumbleB. Nice to know that someone appreciated it.
John
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Dave: as you have been on-line again since Sunday, it would be nice to know whether we have helped you to resolve the query. ;D
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BumbleB, Fiona, Johnw65, Annette7, Heywood & PaulinJ….
Plus anyone else I've missed!
Dear all,
Apologies for the late reply. I've only just been able to get back online ::)
What fantastic leads & detective work here... I'm just going to absorb all the information & come back to you wonderful people. What has opened my eyes is the diminutive of Harry for Henry. However, I still have a problem with "Harry". On the memorial there is no date for "Harry".
To muddy the waters even more I have received an email from Hull City Council Bereavement Services telling me there are 4 people in Grave 32473, Emily Logan D 31/01/1991, William Henry Logan D 02/12/1958, Emily Sharlotte D 03/10/1933 aged 1 Yr 8 Months & Winifred Blanche Logan Died 1924 aged 2 yrs 2 months old.
I'm also told that this "Harry" character was the half brother of my partners father Robert James Logan which could indeed mean that he was born to Emilys first husband.
I'm now totally confused on the Sharlotte surname connection & who on earth Harry actually is & where he's buried.....
Phew...
Thank you all for the advice & hard work so far. Anyone care to hold my hand a little more investigate further ;D :o
Best regards
Dave
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Birth 1932 Hull
Emily Sharlotte mmn Farrell
Birth 1921
Winifred B Logan mmn Farrell
Plus Sharlotte/Farrell births
1928; 1930
I haven’t named them in case they are still living.
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Hi,
There is this marriage on freebmd for an Isaiah Sharlotte to a Christina Farrel: Dec1911 Sculcoates 9D 280.
Possible death for Christina aged 73: Sep1963 Hull 2A 184.
More births for Sharlotte/Farrell from 1912 to add to those posted by Heywood.
Did wonder if perhaps Christina and Emily were sisters?
Can't see a Farrel/l birth for a Christina circa 1890 or an Emily circa 1896.
Best regards, Tony.
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Emily with mother Christina in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7TS-6VL
Emily with parents John and Christiania and sister ‘Chistiania’
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS9K-XHM
The girls were born in Scotland
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From Wikipedia:
Harry, its English short form, was considered the "spoken form" of Henry in medieval England. Most English kings named Henry were called Harry. The name became so popular in England that the phrase "Tom, Dick, and Harry" began to be used to refer to men in general.
And as the interment for William Henry in grave number 32473 was carried out in 1958 at the age of 67, then the conclusion must surely be that he was known as Harry, and the husband of Emily, and that the inscription refers to him, rather than the son.