RootsChat.Com

Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: mrk on Friday 04 October 19 21:13 BST (UK)

Title: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: mrk on Friday 04 October 19 21:13 BST (UK)
I am trying to find the townland where my 2X great grandfather, Martin Kirwan (born about 1821 in County Wexford,Ireland; died 1885 in Sarnia, Ontario, Canada) came from. Martin Kirwan married Mary Cloak 18 August 1848 in the Catholic Parish of Wexford, Diocese of Ferns in County Wexford. I have also found baptism registrations for his first three children -- Francis, born 1848, Francis born 1850, and Patrick (my great grandfather) born 1853 -- all born in the Parish of Wexford. With no other as yet positively identified records, I have taken to looking up witnesses and godparents from the marriage and baptism registrations in Griffith's Valuation in an attempt to narrow down my search for Martin's townland. One of these witnesses was John Hogan, Mary's half brother, who I suspect lived in the townland of Townparks in Black Cow Lane. It was with great interest then that I saw a previous post about Black Cow Lane on this forum and the name Kirwan shown underneath. I am hoping that this might shed further light on Martin's townland and confirm that I have the correct John Hogan. Thanks for any help that you might provide!
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Sinann on Friday 04 October 19 22:05 BST (UK)
Welcome to RootsChat
Is this the thread you are referring to
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=434234.msg3727562#msg3727562
Shorts has Kirwan in his surname list.

It would be best to add a reply to that thread, than Shorts will get a notification email and hopefully return to RootsChat.
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: hallmark on Friday 04 October 19 22:11 BST (UK)


I can't find a Kirwan townland in County Wexford


_______________________________


https://www.pressreader.com › ireland › wexford-people

Wexford People: 2016-08-09
"Aug 9, 2016 - On discovering the hostel plan, householders in Thomas Street, Marian Row, and Black Cow Lane immediately set about mobilising opposition ......"
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: mrk on Friday 04 October 19 23:35 BST (UK)
I am not looking for a townland named Kirwan but rather the townland, somewhere around Wexford Town, where Martin Kirwan came from.
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: hallmark on Friday 04 October 19 23:47 BST (UK)



Apologies, I was going by the Subject of this thread..


Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 05 October 19 01:40 BST (UK)
My comment would be that the townland is mainly, but not entirely irrelevant. Townlands are critical in rural areas. But in urban towns, such as Wexford, they are almost irrelevant. Every farmer and laborer knew his townland, but I doubt one in a hundred urban dwellers knew theirs. In a town, of course, streets are the key thing. Townlands really only come into play in that sometimes a street can lie in more than one townland, so one has to look for that possibility when checking records
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: mrk on Saturday 05 October 19 15:50 BST (UK)
Thanks for your reply.

The issue for me is that I do not know if Martin Kirwan lived in Wexford Town itself or outside of the town. Martin was a market gardener in Canada. According to information provided by a son in the mid 1890s, "Martin and Mary (Hogan) Kerwin [were] natives of Wexford, Ireland... . Martin Kerwin, Sr., followed the occupations of miller and gardener all his life." This would seem to indicate that Martin did not live in Wexford Town.

In any event, what I am trying to discover is where Martin was born and where he lived prior to immigrating to Canada sometime between 1854-1856.
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: oldohiohome on Saturday 05 October 19 16:30 BST (UK)
Cloak/Cloake is much rarer, I would look for that first.

Do you know any of Martin Kirwin Kirwan or Mary Cloak's siblings or parents who might be the tenant on the farm at the time of Griffith's Valuation? 1853 for Wexford, according to John Grenham's Tracing Your Irish Ancestors?

According to his site, the spelling Cloak and Kirwan only occur together in Wexford in Killinick and Edermine Parishes. For Cloake and Kirwan, only in Monart Parish. I didn't do variations of Kirwan. Should have.

In Wexford on Griffiths' there are only 13 Cloak[e] listings. Given names of the Cloak[e] tenants in Wexford:

Laurence, Pierce, John (4), Marianne, Richard, Mary (3), Robert

Do you know the rest of the names of the children of Martin Kirwan and Mary Cloak? Do any match those tenants? John and Mary don't count. Robert and Richard count a little. :)

You'd still need a bit more information to tie them in, even if they match.

How about a biographical county history of where Martin settled? Did they have them in Canada? The ones in the US sometimes mentioned parents and townlands of the "prominent" men in the book. Or an obituary?

Edit: surname spelling
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: oldohiohome on Saturday 05 October 19 16:38 BST (UK)
"Kirwan" is the only spelling of that surname on Griffith's in Wexford.
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Sinann on Saturday 05 October 19 16:49 BST (UK)
Wexford is a fairly small parish, in comparison to most.
https://www.johngrenham.com/places/civil_in_rc.php?churchid=0610&county=&church_name=Wexford
There is a Flour Mill in St. Michaels of Feagh for example on the 1837 to 1842 map and plenty of houses that would have needed a gardener, outside the old town walls but near enough to work there and live in the town.
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: oldohiohome on Saturday 05 October 19 17:02 BST (UK)
Here are the two boys named Francis:

Diocese Ferns, Parish: Wexford
23 August 1848
Francis
sponsors: John and Ellen Furlong

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634138#page/149/mode/1up

Diocese Ferns, Parish: Wexford
8 June 1850
Francis
sponsors: Eleanor Furlong

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634138#page/177/mode/1up

It tells you they wanted a son named Francis. Were either of their fathers named Francis? Or maybe a brother. It also looks like Ellen/Eleanor Furlong was a sponsor for both. Was she one of their sisters? Can you find Furlong births in the area after 1865 with an Eleanor, maiden name Cloak or Kirwan?

---------
Here is the only Patrick Kirwan, b 1853, that I could find, and the mother's maiden name was Poor, not Cloak. So if this is the one you found, you can throw out John Hogan as a lead.

Diocese Ferns, Parish: Wexford
Patt Kirwan baptized 22 December 1853
mother was Mary Poor, not Cloak
sponsor: John Hogan and Mary Whitty

https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634139#page/33/mode/1up


Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: oldohiohome on Saturday 05 October 19 17:06 BST (UK)
According to Grenham's site, the spelling Cloak and Kirwan only occur together in Wexford in Killinick and Edermine Parishes. For Cloake and Kirwan, only in Monart Parish. I didn't do variations of Kirwan. Should have.

I should have mentioned that this only works if both bride and groom lived in the same civil Parish. Martin Kirwan and Mary Cloak might not have been.

My family in Co Down often married brides from the next parish over, where the (Catholic) parish records were a lot less available :(
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: oldohiohome on Saturday 05 October 19 17:18 BST (UK)
mrk's post at irelandxo.com

https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/message-board/searching-kirwan-cloak-hogan-and-power-families

and a thread there as well:
https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/message-board/searching-kirwan-cloak-hogan-and-power-families

which included this interesting information: " my grandfather, Patrick Kerwin (1889-1963), the eldest son of Patrick (1853-1898) went on to become the 10th Chief Justice of Canada."

The post included a link to Martin Kirwan and Mary Cloak Hogan's marriage:
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000634137_075

@mrk
I think the surname of Raphael, witness at the marriage, is Burne. Your guess is as good as mine on the surname of the "maid of honor" Mary, but Synott looks as good as any.

----------
Children born in Canada were children were: Martin (1856), John (1854 or 1857), James (1858), Joseph (1860), Peter (1862), and Mary (1865).

----------
Cross-referencing Cloak + Kirwan on Griffith's might not have been too helpful. Knowing now that Mary's mother remarried a Hogan, looking for Kirwan+Hogan might be better.

Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: oldohiohome on Saturday 05 October 19 18:10 BST (UK)
There is a Dean Thadeus T Kirwan, Catholic priest, in the area by 1849. Is he a relative, and is he why Martin came to this area? If so, was he from Wexford, etc? I can't find him on any census, just these histories. I was hoping someone had written a biography of him somewhere.

"By 1849 Dean Thadeus T. Kirwan of London also ministered on horseback to the Catholics of the Warwick area. He continued in this manner until 1864, even after he was transferred to Sarnia. The earliest record of his visiting “Warwick Town” was on November 24, 1849, when he baptized a child. It was probably he who oversaw the 1850 grant of land to the Roman Catholic Corporation of Sandwich."

https://www.lambtonmuseums.ca/warwick_pages/churches-cemeteries/

In 1856 Sarnia became detached from the other missions receiving a pastor of its own for the first time. He was the Very Rev. Dean Kirwan.
 
https://sites.rootsweb.com/~wjmartin/rcpriest.htm

http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/pinsoneault_pierre_adolphe_11E.html
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: oldohiohome on Saturday 05 October 19 18:14 BST (UK)
----------
Cross-referencing Cloak + Kirwan on Griffith's might not have been too helpful. Knowing now that Mary's mother remarried a Hogan, looking for Kirwan+Hogan might be better.

Kirwan and Hogan occur together in too many places to be helpful. For what it is worth, Cloak and Hogan only occur together in Drinagh Parish
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 05 October 19 21:08 BST (UK)


The post included a link to Martin Kirwan and Mary Cloak Hogan's marriage:
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000634137_075

@mrk
I think the surname of Raphael, witness at the marriage, is Burne. Your guess is as good as mine on the surname of the "maid of honor" Mary, but Synott looks as good as any.

The marriage was 9th August, 1848, between Martin Kirwan and Mary Cloake. The is no mention at all of Hogan. Witnesses were Mary Synnott and Raphael Byrne.

Where did "Hogan" come from?
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 05 October 19 21:40 BST (UK)
Thanks for your reply.

The issue for me is that I do not know if Martin Kirwan lived in Wexford Town itself or outside of the town. Martin was a market gardener in Canada. According to information provided by a son in the mid 1890s, "Martin and Mary (Hogan) Kerwin [were] natives of Wexford, Ireland... . Martin Kerwin, Sr., followed the occupations of miller and gardener all his life." This would seem to indicate that Martin did not live in Wexford Town.

In any event, what I am trying to discover is where Martin was born and where he lived prior to immigrating to Canada sometime between 1854-1856.

Whoa! So many issues here!

In your original posting you told us your g...grandfather was Patrick Kirwan, son of Martin Kirwan and Mary Cloak/Cloake, baptized Wexford 1853.
But at this point we know that:
- There was a Martin Kirwan and Mary CLOAK in Wexford at this time, but
- The Patrick Kirwan baptized in 1853 is recorded as the son of Martin and Mary POOR (as already pointed out by OldOhio).
- Your family history says the mother was neither Cloak, nor Poor, but HOGAN.

So, three different surnames, and no consistency with the records!

At this point I would ask: Is it clear that your Kirwans were really from Wexford town, or just generically the county. I would not be sure at this point.
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 05 October 19 21:46 BST (UK)
What is the mother's surname on the births in Canada? Given the discrepancies in Ireland, this is critical. Same name on all records in Canada?
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Saturday 05 October 19 21:59 BST (UK)
The issue for me is that I do not know if Martin Kirwan lived in Wexford Town itself or outside of the town. Martin was a market gardener in Canada. According to information provided by a son in the mid 1890s, "Martin and Mary (Hogan) Kerwin [were] natives of Wexford, Ireland... . Martin Kerwin, Sr., followed the occupations of miller and gardener all his life." This would seem to indicate that Martin did not live in Wexford Town.

I am no longer sure this is relevant (see earlier points), but for the record I don't agree with this assessment.

My great-grandfather was a gardener. He lived in the town.
His brother-in-law was also a gardener. He too lived in town.

There were nurseries and multiple "big houses" in the vicinity of, and in town for them to work in.
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: oldohiohome on Saturday 05 October 19 22:16 BST (UK)
x
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: mrk on Sunday 06 October 19 00:55 BST (UK)
The post included a link to Martin Kirwan and Mary Cloak Hogan's marriage:
https://registers.nli.ie/pages/vtls000634137_075
[/quote]
Where did "Hogan" come from?
[/quote]

My mistake, Mary Cloak's mother remarried a Hogan. Mary (Cloak) Kirwan became known as Mary Hogan to her descendants in Canada.

Based on the Irish Catholic parish records found to date, it is very probable that Patrick Cloak and Mary Power were the parents of Mary Cloak who married Martin Kirwan in 1848. Patrick Cloak and Mary Power were married in Wexford in 1823. Their daughter, Mary (who later married Martin Kirwan) was baptized 7 July 1824. It is my hunch that Patrick Cloak died sometime in the later 1820s and his widow, Mary (Power) Cloak, subsequently married William Hogan in 1830. This is, I believe, the Hogan connection which was to become part of the Kerwin family tree: daughter Mary Cloak became William Hogan’s step child and thus, to her descendants in Canada, came to be known as Mary Hogan. This is clearly demonstrated in pre-1885 Canadian records in which a maiden name is provided: all show Mary Cloak. Canadian records after 1885 in which Martin's and Mary's children were informants all give Hogan as Mary's name.
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: mrk on Sunday 06 October 19 01:14 BST (UK)
Unfortunately, we do not know names of any of Martin Kirwan's siblings. I have not found a Cloak sibling for Mary but she did have at least two Hogan half brothers.

There is no mention of the Kerwin's in any Lambton County history that I know of. Obituaries for Martin and Mary were very brief and provided no family information.

My guess is that further research into the Hogans of Wexford might be more fruitful than looking into the Cloaks as Mary seems to have been more closely identified with William Hogan's family  as that is how Mary's children in Canada seem to have viewed her.

All of Mary and Martin's children are known and it appears that Mary and Martin followed the Irish naming tradition; this has not been confirmed completely but seems to be the case.
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: mrk on Sunday 06 October 19 02:23 BST (UK)
Whoa! So many issues here!

In your original posting you told us your g...grandfather was Patrick Kirwan, son of Martin Kirwan and Mary Cloak/Cloake, baptized Wexford 1853.
But at this point we know that:
- There was a Martin Kirwan and Mary CLOAK in Wexford at this time, but
- The Patrick Kirwan baptized in 1853 is recorded as the son of Martin and Mary POOR (as already pointed out by OldOhio).
- Your family history says the mother was neither Cloak, nor Poor, but HOGAN.

So, three different surnames, and no consistency with the records!

At this point I would ask: Is it clear that your Kirwans were really from Wexford town, or just generically the county. I would not be sure at this point.
[/quote]

When I first began my Kerwin family research in March 2017, I did not know whether family lore referred to Wexford Town or to County Wexford. However, with the Irish Catholic parish records found to date, there is no mistaking that Martin Kirwan and Mary Cloak had strong ties to Wexford Town and that the names Cloak, Power, and Hogan do fit.

Based on research to this point, I am confident that Patrick Cloak and Mary Power were married in 1823. Their daughter, Mary Cloak was baptized 7 July 1824. I am assuming that Patrick Cloak died sometime during the mid- to late 1820s -- of course, there are no interment records -- and his widow then married William Hogan in 1830. Mary Cloak then became William Hogan's step-daughter -- and thus was later known by her children in Canada as Mary Hogan.

There was always some confusion among earlier family historians regarding this discrepancy in Mary's maiden name. It is interesting to note, however, that Cloak is given as Mary's maiden name in all Canadian records up to 1885. After 1885, when her children were informants, Canadian records show Mary's maiden name as Hogan. There can, however, be no doubt that Mary Cloak and Mary Hogan are one and the same: in the marriage records for my great grandparents, Patrick Kerwin and Ellen Gavin, the parish record from Our Lady of Mercy in Sarnia, Ontario dated 7 January 1885, gives Mary's name as Hogan. However, the civil marriage registration for the very same event records Cloak as Mary's maiden name.

I believe that the 1853 baptism record for Patrick Kirwan is erroneous: I do not think it too far-fetched to imagine that the parish priest mistakenly recorded the mother as Mary Poor rather than Mary Cloak. Patrick's maternal grandmother was Mary Power and this is where I think that parish priest erred. I suspect that family names Poor and Power are one and the same: try saying Poor and Power quickly and you will see what I mean and this, I think, is more likely given that the names were recorded in an age when the spelling of names was often of little or no import.

Several Kerwin family trees variously give the birth year of Patrick Kirwan as 1854 or 1855. In a letter dated 19 September 1960, my grandfather, Patrick Grandcourt Kerwin wrote, “My grandfather [Martin] Kerwin came from Wexford, Ireland, and my father [Patrick] was born there on December 23, 1854.” It is very likely that Patrick Grandcourt Kerwin was not entirely accurate in his statement regarding his father’s birthdate as he was not yet nine years old when his father died. This inaccuracy was later demonstrated as a search of all Catholic baptismal records in the parish of Wexford during this time frame revealed only one entry for a Patrick Kirwan whose parents were Martin and Mary.  Patrick’s date of birth was recorded as 21 December and he was baptized the following day, 22 December 1853.

I believe that I am on the right track concerning the above but what I'd really like to know, as stated in previous posts, is when and where Martin Kirwan was born. Hopefully, I'll eventually figure this out!

Thanks again for all of your responses!
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 06 October 19 02:34 BST (UK)
......

I believe that I am on the right track concerning the above but what I'd really like to know, as stated in previous posts, is when and where Martin Kirwan was born. Hopefully, I'll eventually figure this out!

Thanks again for all of your responses!

You may be on the right track, but you did not exactly help those of us trying to help you. You knew substantially more than what you posted initially, which was an incomplete version.
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 06 October 19 03:06 BST (UK)
Unfortunately, we do not know names of any of Martin Kirwan's siblings.

But we do know that there was more than one Martin Kirwan in Wexford Town at precisely the same time. Something I suspect you knew too.
There is a November 1851 baptism in Wexford for a Mary Kirwan, parents Martin Kirwan and Margaret Boland. First sponsor Edward Kirwan.

What that means is that even if you find a Martin Kirwan in records, the question will be, which one?
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 06 October 19 03:51 BST (UK)
"Kirwan" is the only spelling of that surname on Griffith's in Wexford.

There is also Kerevan in Griffiths.
Kerevan and Kirwin in Valuation Office Books (pre-Griffiths).
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: oldohiohome on Sunday 06 October 19 04:39 BST (UK)

I believe that the 1853 baptism record for Patrick Kirwan is erroneous: I do not think it too far-fetched to imagine that the parish priest mistakenly recorded the mother as Mary Poor rather than Mary Cloak. Patrick's maternal grandmother was Mary Power and this is where I think that parish priest erred. I suspect that family names Poor and Power are one and the same: try saying Poor and Power quickly and you will see what I mean and this, I think, is more likely given that the names were recorded in an age when the spelling of names was often of little or no import.

...

. In a letter dated 19 September 1960, my grandfather, Patrick Grandcourt Kerwin wrote, “My grandfather [Martin] Kerwin came from Wexford, Ireland, and my father [Patrick] was born there on December 23, 1854.” It is very likely that Patrick Grandcourt Kerwin was not entirely accurate in his statement regarding his father’s birthdate as he was not yet nine years old when his father died. This inaccuracy was later demonstrated as a search of all Catholic baptismal records in the parish of Wexford during this time frame revealed only one entry for a Patrick Kirwan whose parents were Martin and Mary.  Patrick’s date of birth was recorded as 21 December and he was baptized the following day, 22 December 1853.

This makes a lot of sense and I agree,  since the date and month that your grandfather knew is so close to that of the baptism date. I have seen very many cases where the American records were off by a year or two from the actual birth. I hadn't found the part about Mary Power on irelandxo when I stated that Patrick's birth was the wrong one.

I  agree that you need to look more at Hogan than at Cloak, unfortunately, since Cloak is so much easier to find.

And now that I know the Patrick baptism is "your" Patrick, I will take a longer look at John Hogan, possible step-brother.  I had discounted him because of the name Poor on the record, but following him up makes sense.

It's late here, but if I get a chance tomorrow or the next day, I will take another look for the surnames in Wexford Town.

And I wonder if the Cloaks were rural and Mary moved to the Town before she remarried. Or did Mr Hogan take over the Cloak farm?  - Just thinking out loud. Or did she move to his?  - A lot depends on what you find in Wexford Town.
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: oldohiohome on Sunday 06 October 19 05:57 BST (UK)
x
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: mrk on Sunday 06 October 19 16:49 BST (UK)
1./7.: Mary Cloak's mother, Mary Power Cloak, married William Hogan in the parish of Wexford -- the same parish that Mary Cloak married Martin Kirwan in 1848 -- so you make a very good point.

2.: I have looked for Martin Kirwan in Griffith's Valuation and need to do this again when AskAbout Ireland is next up and responding. As I recall from much earlier searches, there were several Martin Kirwan and there was no way of knowing if any of these records were for my Martin.

3.: Yes, that could be although my understanding is that godparents were traditionally siblings or siblings-in-law. I will have to look at the baptism records for the two Francis' and Patrick again and follow up on this lead.

4.: There were several churches in Wexford Town at various times. Unfortunately, the parish records at the NLI do not indicate anything more than "Wexford, Diocese of Ferns."

5.: The only information that had come down to us is that Martin Kirwan came from Wexford -- no mention of the county vs town let alone a street name or townland.

6.:  According to a cousin, Thaddeus is not related to my line. Nevertheless, it would be interesting to learn more about him at some point. Interestingly, based on an interment record from Our Lady of Mercy Church in Sarnia, Ontario, there was another Kirwan family in the 1880s. Family lore makes no mention of this family; however, I would be curious to know more about them.

I do not know why Martin Kirwan moved to Sarnia (sometime between 1856 and 1860 based on baptism records found for sons Martin and Joseph). There is no family lore regarding other family members living in Lambton County at the time or reason given for the move. The Grand Trunk Railway reached Sarnia in 1856 when the area was experiencing an oil boom and this might have been the motivation to move there although this is pure conjecture on my part.

8.: Family lore has it that my great grandmother had come across the name Grandcourt in her reading, had taken a fancy to it and so it was that her first son was named Patrick Grandcourt. There was a somewhat similar occurrence in the naming of her second son, Vernon.
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 06 October 19 19:17 BST (UK)
If I may say so, this thread is losing focus, with  points which have been answered on this board multiple times, or can be readily answered via Duckduckgo..

Case in point - how many churches in Wexford. This was addressed here (this board) previously.
For centuries previous to 1858, when the "twin churches" in Rowe and Bride Streets were consecrated, there was only a single Catholic church in Wexford.  This was not a regular parish church - there was none (before 1858). Instead, the parish priest had the use of the Franciscan friary - by curtesy.
The parish records are the oldest in Ireland, and stretch back to the 1680s, with only minor gaps.

In any case the number of churches is usually irrelevant. In parishes with more than one church, it is still normal to only have one set of parish registers (though there can be exceptions).
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 06 October 19 19:25 BST (UK)
Griffiths - there is more than just the published version, available on AskAboutIreland.

There are also the preceding Valuation office records, from before the published version, available online on the NAI genealogy pages.

For Wexford, Griffiths was published in 1853, and the preceding records cover approx. 1846-1852. Perfect timing match for this Kirwan family.

But there is no Martin Kirwan in the vicinity of Wexford Town. Nor variant spellings such as Kirwin or Kerevan either. These variants are present, and have to be searched individually. So if the family were in Wexford parish, which is clear, then there are three possibilities:
1. They were living in servant/staff accommodation, and so don't appear.
2. They were living with relatives, and so don't appear.
3. They were renting for less than a year at a time, and so don't appear.
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: mrk on Sunday 06 October 19 19:29 BST (UK)
Thanks for this, Wexflyer.
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 06 October 19 19:31 BST (UK)
I am afraid that I don’t buy the explanation for the appearance of Mary POOR as the mother's name on the 1853 baptism record for Patrick Kirwan.
I see where you are coming froom in trying to rationalize this. Poor and Power are indeed derived from a common root, but do you think a poor working man's family would possibly know this in the 1840s? Unlikely.
Now the priest might have known, but would it be on his mind? Again, unlikely.
And in 1848 Mary Cloak's, or Mary Hogan's (as the case may be) mother would have been know as Mrs Cloak, or Mrs Hogan for decades. Again, it seems to me to be unlikely that the priest would have been thinking of the French version of the maiden name for the grandmother, a name the grandmother had not used in decades!
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 06 October 19 19:49 BST (UK)
And what of the other Martin Kirwan, also having a child in Wexford, in 1851?
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 06 October 19 20:28 BST (UK)
Are the Canadian records civil registration, or church records, or both? If civil, do they show that Martin was litterate, or a marksman?
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 06 October 19 21:49 BST (UK)
Can someone please post the links for the
1824 Cloak - Power marriage
1830 Power - Hogan marriage.
Thanks
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 06 October 19 22:08 BST (UK)
There is an 1848 will in which a William Hogan of Wexford town is named. Has this been examined?
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: mrk on Sunday 06 October 19 22:30 BST (UK)
The December 1853 baptism for Patrick Kirwan, despite the mother's maiden name being recorded as Poor -- for whatever reason -- most very likely is the record for my great grandfather. The location in the Parish of Wexford, the date of the registration, the father's name, and the family names of both godparents, Hogan and Whitty (both of whom appear in records for Mary Power) clearly point to this. Further, there are no other registrations for a Patrick Kirwan born of a Martin and a Mary during the period 1853-1854 in Wexford.

The 10 November 1851 baptism record for Mary Kirwan records the mother's name as Margret Boland. This is not consistent with family lore, Irish records previously mentioned, or Canadian civil and church records.

The 1861 census for Canada West indicates that Martin was an illiterate labourer. You will note, however, that the enumerator has recorded the family name as Kinnan. There can be no doubt, however, that this is the correct family as the location, given names, and birth order of the children are all correct. Parish records from this time corroborate the fact that Martin and family were in Sarnia, Lambton County at this time.

1824 marriage registration for Mary Power and Patrick Cloak:
Catholic Parish Registers at the National Library of Ireland (https://registers.nli.ie: accessed 4 July 2017); parish of Wexford, Diocese of Ferns, County of Wexford, Microfilm 040254/02, Marriages 09 Jan. 1823 to 25 Nov. 1867, page 5.

1830 marriage registration for Mary Cloak and William Hogan:
Catholic Parish Registers at the National Library of Ireland (https://registers.nli.ie: accessed 24 October 2017); parish of Wexford, Diocese of Ferns, County of Wexford, Microfilm 04254/02, Marriages 09 Jan. 1823 to 25 Nov. 1867, page 18.

I have not seen the William Hogan will of 1848. I would very much like to see this and would appreciate if you could post the URL. Thanks!
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Sunday 06 October 19 22:37 BST (UK)
The 1848 will is not that of William Hogan, rather he is mentioned.
Just go to NAI genealogy page and search the will registers.
http://www.genealogy.nationalarchives.ie (http://www.genealogy.nationalarchives.ie)

As for the 1851 Mary Kirwan baptism, with mother Margaret Boland. I fully understand that this is not your family. My point is that unless this was your Martin Kirwan having an affair (in which case I would expect an annotation of illegitimate or bastard), then this says there was a second Martin Kirwan, at precisely the same time.  So, assuming a record for Martin in Wexford is ever found, the question will be, which Martin?
Title: Re: Looking for Kirwan townland in County Wexford circa 1853
Post by: Wexflyer on Monday 07 October 19 03:18 BST (UK)
The 1848 will is not that of William Hogan, rather he is mentioned.
Just go to NAI genealogy page and search the will registers.
http://www.genealogy.nationalarchives.ie (http://www.genealogy.nationalarchives.ie)

If you search for William Hogan and Wexford under Wills Registers, you will come up with the entry I saw. Unfortunately, the link to the images gives 404 errors for me. Others on here have said there is a way to fix or circumvent this, but I don't recall at present.