RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Mayo => Topic started by: amac1210 on Friday 11 October 19 15:19 BST (UK)
-
I'm looking for origins to the Shevlane family in Belmullet, Co. Mayo. Family folklore suggests French connections, perhaps with the soldiers who came over with General Jean Joseph Amable Humbert in 1798 to help the Irish in their Rebellion. On my own branch of the family, I find John Shevlane and Biddy Mills - both would have been born c.1820-1840. I descend from their son John Shevlane (1867-1954), and other children include Bridget, James and Richard. Richard is a distinctive name, and another Richard Shevlane shows up in 1900 census records, with a birth year of c.1828. I wonder if he would have been a brother to John who married Biddy Mills? Nothing on the Mills lot either. It's all quite unknown. Any help in this would be much appreciated and perhaps a list of those 1100 French soldiers would help clear up any potential French connections too?
-
You could try this Surname search
https://www.johngrenham.com/surnames/
You only get a couple of goes free, than have to wait until next day for more free goes.
-
.........I find John Shevlane and Biddy Mills - both would have been born c.1820-1840. I descend from their son John Shevlane (1867-1954).........
Born 1st July 1867 in townland of Briska, Bangor R.D. #366
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03471/2274765.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/mayo/erris/kilcommon/glenco/briska/
KG
-
http://goldenlangan.com/graves-gm.html
-
Thanks for all that, though this is information already found. I know John Shevlane was born in 1867 to John Shevlane and Biddy Mills. I have photographs of his grave, from family members. Others appear on the website given, but don't take us back before 1900 really. My question is from whom this elder John descends? I am intrigued by the Richard Shevlane born c.1828, and he might be a clue to it all.
-
I did receive a message there saying the name Shevlan shows up for "Hearth Rolls Tax" in Co. Mayo, year 1665. Would be fascinating to push these links further.
-
This seems to come from a problematic page online, about surnames. No known Hearth Roll exists for Co. Mayo, though Teag O'Shevelan does appear in another 1665 document for Donegal. Seems progress here will be difficult without any older records.
-
https://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Shevlan
-
‘Richard is a distinctive name, and another Richard Shevlane shows up in 1900 census records, with a birth year of c.1828.’
Where is this Richard please?
-
All these Shevlanes are in Belmullet, Co. Mayo. Including this Richard on 1901 census.
-
Are these your family in Briska -not Belmullet
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Glenco/Briska/1579497/
There is also this family in Briska
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Glenco/Briska/1579498/
And this one
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Glenco/Briska/1579499/
There is a 60yr old Richard in Muingingaun but none in Belmullet.
Can you post the link please.
-
This is Richard of Muingingaun in 1911 aged 72 yrs.
Do you mean this one?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Glenamoy/Muingingaun/710113/
-
All these Shevlanes are in Belmullet, Co. Mayo. Including this Richard on 1901 census.
He's 29 years Married in 1911 so you have probably checked for Marriage to see who is father was. What address was on Cert?
-
m
-
My ancestor John Shevlane was born in Briska, though I always thought that was part of Belmullet? In any case, how does the elder Richard relate do you think? I am struggling to find the ancestors farther back than John Shevlane Snr. and Biddy Mills. Thanks
-
I never found Richard's marriage certificate. I did find one for Catherine Shevlane and John Cuffe, I know their descendants kept in touch with my family as cousins, however it is not certain how her Catherine's father relates to John Shevlane who married Biddy Mills. Her father was Michael Shevlane, still living at time of her marriage in 1882. That puts his birth probably between 1820-1842. This suggests probably, given ages, that he was brother to John Shevlane and maybe to Richard Shevlane if naming pattern is to be believed. The question is whether we can find the generation further back? Thanks.
-
Heywood, I don't recognise those families but probably cousins of some sort. If Catherine, wife of John Cuffe, is indeed this closely related it suggests a move back and forth from Shragh which is where John Shevlane and Bridget Murphy set up home. I think Briska is simply another Belmullet township, not far from the others.
Here is Richard born c.1828, and again the name seems so rare that he seems to me to be a certain relation of some kind - http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Glenamoy/Muingingaun/710113/
There is also this Richard, but much younger and perhaps more distantly connected - http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Sheskin/Glencullin_Upper/707884/
1901 censuses too:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Glenamoy/Muingingaun/1581039/
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Sheskin/Glencullin_Upper/1579981/
As to Richard son of John Shevlane and Biddy Mills, he seems not to appear on census records. I don't know why, and he seems to have died in 1949 from grave records. Born in 1865.
Noting the birth records for Patrick Shevlane (son of John Shevlane and Bridget Murphy) we see his mother at both his birth but also at the birth of another Patrick Shevlane that same year, son of Edward "Ned" Shevlane and Sabina Shevlane - in same township. We do know Bridget Murphy was a midwife, nurse and undertaker, but it seems likely Ned and John related somehow too?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1898/02069/1790171.pdf
As yet no luck in even finding census records in 1901 for John Shevlane and Bridget Murphy let alone John Shevlane and Biddy Mills - who may have died by then. In other words, the whole family disappears from view in 1901. Edward Shevlane's son Patrick does show up with his uncle Manus Shevlane and aunt Maggie. But that's all I can find.
1911 is better for records and we have this census - http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Glencastle/Srah/707334/. The other Patrick, son of Ned Shevlane is now with his maternal grandparents also - http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Rathill/Tullaghanbaun/707822/.
This is all I can find at the moment!
-
I am confused now but that’s not unusual. ;)
Ages do vary in censuses but the Richard you refer to is 72yrs in 1911 which would give a birth year of 1839.
In 1901 (the one you mention as born c1828) he is 60 yrs o,d - b abt 1840.
As far as I can see, Briska is not a Belmullet township although there are Shevelin (variations) around that part of Mayo. Briska is closer to Bangor Erris.
I have visited the area but I am sure that someone with better knowledge could help.
If the Briska families are not yours, where is your family in 1901? - Sorry, just read your message again. Back on track, I think.
-
This would be your family then in 1901?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Glencastle/Srah/1579487/
-
Well I have John Shevlane and Bridget Murphy as ancestors, and I also have a list of their children - Anne, Patrick, John, Bridget, Bridget (2), Sabina, Mary, Kate, Michael, Michael (2) and Martin. Big family indeed, I've located everyone except Anne, the elder Bridget, the younger Michael and Martin. Martin is known to the older generation of the family still living, but they only vaguely know he "died young". Anne wasn't known about, so she likely died in infancy. Same might be assumed for elder Bridget, since the younger was likely named after her. Younger Michael is completely unknown to memory again suggesting premature death. All this being said, I know there was heavy involvement with the Civil War at the time. I am told one of their aunts was murdered and events like that may not appear on official records.
Coming to my point, there is no family I can find matching these names. Perhaps there was some spelling variety making them hard to locate on census? In any case, census from 1901 won't help me very much in finding further ancestry.
John Shevlane does seem to have been born 1st July 1867, since this is only record in region matching his rough age and name. If so, his parents are John Shevlane and Biddy Mills. I note they also have son Richard "Dick" Shevlane (1865) who may have died in 1949. Plus a son James, and daughters Bridget and Mary. The name Richard struck me as unusual and I see this older Richard, old enough to be brother of this elder John Shevlane.
I know also about the Cuffe cousins, and their connection to us via Catherine Shevlane daughter of Michael Shevlane. Looking at dates, I am assuming Michael to be another brother of John and Richard potentially. It's all very complicated. How Edward "Ned" Shevlane, Manus Shevlane, and Bryan Shevlane may relate remains completely unknown - though I bet they do!
-
Yes, you just found them! So Anne is apparently elsewhere, she was born c.1896. Strange.
-
Do you have the marriage record of John Shevlane and Bridget Murphy?
-
John’s age varies in censuses.
There is a John b Sraigh 1870 - father Michael
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03330/2220608.pdf
-
You have Richard and his wife Honor with 3 kids.... Philip, 108, Bows Street, Blyth, Northumberland, and Mary and Pat
-
http://censussearchforms
Link http://www.rootschat.com/links/01oid/
-
Marriage of Catherine Shevlane , Shragh to John Cuffe.
Her father is Michael
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1882/10960/8006220.pdf
Is this the one you refer to?
-
http://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/reels/c19/007246696/007246696_00090.pdf doesn't say how old this John was!
Unless you have a John, son of Myles marrying.
-
Sabina Shevelin
http://censussearchforms.nationalarchives.ie/reels/c19/007246696/007246696_00152.pdf
-
I am now concentrating on Shevlanes of Shraigh but I can see that it might get very complicated because of the various Shevlanes in various townlands ;)
Here is Ned, of Shragh, marrying Sabina Calpin. His father is Michael and a John Shevlane is a witness
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1898/10429/5797338.pdf
How sure are you that you have the right parents for your John?
I can’t see a marriage to Bridget Murphy? Do you have the details?
-
Heywood, you may well be right about John being son of Michael Shevlane and Anne Barrett. It would fit naming patterns considering there are two sons by Bridget Murphy called Michael, and a daughter called Anne. It also keeps the same location. Moreover, his death in 1954 gives age as 84 years as does his tombstone - https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1954/04439/4160377.pdf. You have convinced me!
So we have Edward "Ned" Shevlane as his brother along with sister Catherine Shevlane who married John Cuffe. That makes the relationship to Cuffe family more clear now. Very useful information here.
Marriage to Bridget Murphy only given on other records later on - it occurred in 1895.
Question now turns to parentage of Michael Shevlane? And the other families do remain useful to keep in mind - thanks for those details Hallmark.
-
Addition: Manus Shevlane seems to have been another brother - as he was uncle to Ned Shevlane's son. Just found death record for Ned Shevlane at Shragh in 1903. He was only 45 years old, and this explains why the son Patrick ends up with his uncle Manus. Though given the age gap I do wonder if Manus was perhaps a great-uncle? Indeed he and "Maggie" seem to marry in 1865, with this record: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1865/11594/8266557.pdf. That means I have John Shevlane son of Michael Shevlane son of Edward Shevlane. It also means his brother Ned was just named after a grandfather.
-
Marriage of Michael Shevlane and Ann Barret March 1858 - dispensation for 3rd and 4th degree of consanguinity
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634607#page/7/mode/1up
-
Any on census with Philip, 108, Bows Street, Blyth, Northumberland ??
-
Ah so Ann Barrett and Michael Shevlane are cousins? Hopefully I can locate their exact relationship. Though no death records obvious for either of them, which frustrates research. When we say 3rd degree what level of relationship are we talking about? Edward Shevlane certainly seems to be Michael's father, and I also find the name Edward cropping up as a son of Neal Shevlane who died in 1900, Belmullet. I think we have to find more about Edward somehow. All a lot to think about now. Nothing on Philip I know about, but he must appear somewhere.
-
Good luck if you are going to search Barretts in Belmullet ;)
They may well be 1st cousins according to charts.
Here is a likely death for Michael - 81 yrs in 1900 of Shraigh.
Unfortunately, he died in the workhouse so the informant is an employee.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05758/4626458.pdf
-
What records might exist to find an origin for Edward Shevlane? I am curious whether Ned Shevlane who died in 1882 might relate, and Neal Shevlane who had son Edward also. So far I only have Edward Shevlane with sons Manus and Michael, and online pages suggest daughters too.
-
Where are your records from re Edward being the father?
I found Manus’ marriage so can see that now.
They are in Toorglass townland and Edmond is shown in Griffiths
https://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/mayo/kilcommon.htm
How have you linked them to Michael?
-
C Reg Birth, Marriage and Death results for Shev* of Belmullet
Area - Belmullet
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01oie/
The ones with Returns Page No don't have Images yet!
Check Link every now and then for updates!
-
I have been using that method, Hallmark but I think there are some missing entries.
I have looked for a couple of marriages about 1895 but not indexed.
-
Maybe they just didn't Register then.....or Registered them in some other District.
-
I know Edward to be father by means of elimination - Ned Shevlane's son Patrick, for whom I posted a birth record earlier, lives with "Uncle" Manus Shevlane and wife Maggie in 1911. This Manus is certainly not son of Michael Shevlane, grandfather of Patrick and father of John Shevlane who married Bridget Murphy. Therefore Manus must be a "Great-Uncle", and looking at his 1865 marriage shows Edward Shevlane as father. It also explains where Ned Shevlane (Edward) - son of Michael - got his name from! It's coming together a fair bit now I think, so I aim to push back further yet.
The Belmullet registers frustratingly lack digitisation much of the time. Moreover, as you say, some records that should be there simply aren't due to lack of recording. I have this issue with identifying parents of Anthony Kelly who married Ann Carey in 1869. I scanned every single Belmullet marriage for that year, and no luck. It wasn't recorded. This is discussed a little on two other threads - one specifically for Anthony Kelly and his family, another about Major Bingham. Any further ideas Hallmark, on this side of things? I mentioned Daniel Kelly as a possible brother? Thanks.
-
No, I've given up on that lot when I posted a g/stone of someone marrying in Wexford to a Bingham or a Kelly that was "nephew of Lord Clanmorris".......
Obviously a brother of this Lord and no one had a clue who he was!
My head got fried trying to keep track of them all and with no basic tree posted e.g from 1750 to 1850 compiled about the one's postedm for a non-Bingham "helper", it is just too much to remember them all.
I'm suppose to know the first name of this Lord so that I can try to figure out/remember who the father of the Groom was!!
It is obvious he was one of the Kelly lot and a new find.... and not an R.C one!!
Marrying a Vicar or Dean's daughter.......
There could even be a Civil Reg for that Marriage or a Marriage Agreement Registered or a Pedigree of whatever family he married into in Weford.
If I remember correctly on that thread they insisted the Kellys were all poor R.C's .... The newly found Marriage and subsequent g/stone I posted PROVES they weren't.
The registers for that Church of Ireland Church where that Marriage took place are online..... has anyone even bothered to see what details are there for this new found Kelly??
I posted about Tokay and the Daly's there only to be told they weren't part of the Dunsandle lot.... how was I to know if they were or not?
Recently posted about Hyacinth being there...he was part of this Dunsandle lot!
I posted a snippet of DeBurke's connection to the Binghams and later some Marriage of a daughter or g/daughter.
Probably no one has looked to see if there were any Bingham-Kelly children born from this Wexford C of I Marriage and who they Married and their Kelly religion? G/nephews to this Lord, whatever his first name was!!
Here is photo of this "new" Wexford Bingham Kelly.......
The Kelly's were ovbiously well-to-do, non-RC, so certainly possible (and they probably insisted!! ) that any Marriages for them were in non-R.C churches in order for these to be "Legal" in the eyes of the State and any children of marriages Legally recognized for inheritances etc!
-
Addition: Manus Shevlane seems to have been another brother - as he was uncle to Ned Shevlane's son. Just found death record for Ned Shevlane at Shragh in 1903. He was only 45 years old, and this explains why the son Patrick ends up with his uncle Manus. Though given the age gap I do wonder if Manus was perhaps a great-uncle? Indeed he and "Maggie" seem to marry in 1865, with this record: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1865/11594/8266557.pdf. That means I have John Shevlane son of Michael Shevlane son of Edward Shevlane. It also means his brother Ned was just named after a grandfather.
I think you are mistaken re Ned above.
Edward married Sabina Calpin.
They both died and their children Patrick, Bridget and Anne are with their Calpin family in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Rathill/Tullaghanbaun/707822/
-
Marriage of Michael Shevlane and Ann Barret March 1858 - dispensation for 3rd and 4th degree of consanguinity
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634607#page/7/mode/1up
Ah so Ann Barrett and Michael Shevlane are cousins? Hopefully I can locate their exact relationship. Though no death records obvious for either of them, which frustrates research. When we say 3rd degree what level of relationship are we talking about?
Chart for working out degrees of consanguinity. Before looking at it read list of hints. Hint 1. ".. errors exist in marriage records .. dispensation noted may not be correct."
www.islandregister.com/cworksheet.html
Link to "Consanguinity tutorial" is below the chart. Read that for explanation of 3rd -4th degree.
My estimate is 2nd or 3rd cousins or 2nd cousins-once-removed. First cousins would be 2nd degree.
-
Thanks Maiden Stone. It is complicated and reading articles about Canon Law describe consanguinity differently. :-\
This is one but there are others
https://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2010/09/09/can-cousins-marry-in-the-church/
What do you think?
It looks as though it would be difficult to research in any case and Barrett is a very common name in the area but you never know :)
-
Thanks Maiden Stone. It is complicated and reading articles about Canon Law describe consanguinity differently. :-\
This is one but there are others
https://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2010/09/09/can-cousins-marry-in-the-church/
What do you think?
It looks as though it would be difficult to research in any case and Barrett is a very common name in the area but you never know :)
It's complicated and confusing.
I have that article bookmarked. It has brother and sister as 2nd degree consanguinity. I've occasionally seen 2nd- some other degree in registers but obviously siblings can't marry. I've seen plenty of 3rd-3rd degree consanguinity marriages. According to that article they wouldn't be allowed either. Priests in parishes whose registers I've looked at seem to have used a different method of calculation.
The link I posted is to a tutorial written from a family history point of view rather than a theological one. I think the chart is clearer than some others I've seen and more accurately reflects what was in marriage registers. Recalling my original reading if it and other article by the writer, s/he had other evidence about the ancestors (in Canada) being researched which either corroborated information about consanguinity or affinity in marriage registers or showed errors.
There is an article in the Catholic Encyclopaedia with a chart at the end. Several pages of history and theology before it so I didn't post it.
The basic rule, as I understand it is that marriages between 1st-cousins are not allowed except for very serious reasons. A request for a dispensation for 1st-cousin marriage has to be sent to the bishop's representative and possibly higher (Vatican); admin fee is more and it takes time. The Canadian writer has an example of one which was refused (another blog).
There may be more research on the topic from a social or FH viewpoint.
There is no evidence that any of my Irish ancestors married people to whom they were already related so I've never tried to untangle a consanguinity or affinity connection.
-
Yes; the children are with maternal grandparents in 1911, but in 1901 Patrick is with Manus Shevlane. Unless he is another Patrick?
I've not yet checked Michael Bingham Kelly, and I would have to find Co. Wexford registers. I will see what I can find, though I don't think he directly relates to me or even to Edward Kelly. I say this especially looking at the dates - he died in 1880s. I am trying to find parents and grandparents of Anthony Kelly who was born in around 1838 and died 1911. I don't see any other approach than naming pattern. Marriage simply not registered civilly, and he never applied for Old Age Pension. It's very frustrating. For sure, he and his family were R.C. but that didn't stop young Denis Bingham - son of Arthur Shayn Bingham - having a kid with Mary "Maria" Kelly. Nor did it stop them employing Anthony Kelly (1883-1969). Nor did it stop Major Denis Bingham farther back in time marrying an R.C. I have messaged a user who descends from Edward Kelly as to whether she can fill in gaps for his children. One is named Thomas Kelly - who partcipated in 1798 Rebellion and got sent to the Plantations by Major Denis as a result. This marked end of friendship with his brother-in-law Edward Kelly.
The consanginuity here may be impenetrable given dates. We'd have to know both Anne Barrett's and Michael Shevlane's grandparents, which goes back into early-mid 1700s. I wish they had collected more oral history from Belmullet folk - it would make all this much more easy. In the absence of patrynomics I'm not sure how to get beyond Edward Shevlane?
Thanks to all.
-
Griffiths Valuation shows many people among my ancestors, many thanks for that link Heywood! I see my ancestor Hugh Carey at Doolough, and note a James Carey and Patrick Carey there also. Makes me wonder if they are connected.
I also see Terence Kelly at Muingmore, the township where old Anthony Kelly lived. Connected do you think, Hallmark? Is the township a good clue?
-
I see Richard Shevlane at Glencullin Upper, though his name is wrote Richard Shovelin. My Shevlane family were from Shragh. Assuming that Edward Shevlane is not indeed Michael's father, do you think Neal Shevlane looks promising? Indeed he shows up at Srahmore (perhaps not far from Srah/Shragh). But again not sure how much movement there was. Also worth noting that Neal had a son Edward according to online tree. This Neal was born c.1827 and died 1900 which might indicate a younger Neal?
Curious about these non-Irish names too - e.g. Edward, Edmond, Richard, Terence? Is this longstanding English influence? Did it indicate some level of Anglophilia perhaps?
-
Perhaps you were right about Edward. Could this be the Patrick shown at home with uncle Manus Shevlane - https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1897/02124/1807307.pdf? Only got three Patrick Shevlanes from the years 1897-1898.
-
Yes I was thinking that was the right one.
I was put off a bit though because in 1911 Mary shows 9 children born and 6 still living. There are six children recorded in 1911.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Belmullet/Toorglass/707982/
Ned and Mary show married for 17 yrs - about 1894. I can’t see a marriage entry - perhaps another missing record. ::)
-
Parts of several replies #40, #46 and #47 seem to be about families and enquiries other then the current Shevlane topic. Perhaps information in them belongs on the appropriate thread(s) so as not to distract from relevant information on this one.
-
The 9 children refer to those given before: Anne, Patrick, John, Sabina, Michael, Bridget, Martin, Mary and Kate. Another two are born in 1912 and 1914, Michael (2) and Bridget. Bridget lived to 2005. I don't know when the earlier Bridget passed away, but I assume in infancy. It would help to clear up that gap and also to find an exact record for Michael's death - that is for Michael born in 1912. Nobody remembers him indicating he must have passed before 1940s.
-
I am referring to the children of Ned and Mary Gaughan in 1911. Census reference given in that post.
Patrick is a child born to them - you posted the birth and we are now assuming that he is the nephew with Manus and family.
-
OK, so that's Patrick. I wonder where the other patrick is at the ime? The son of Ned and Sabina Shevlane? He doesn't show up on any obvious census record for 1901. He isn't with the family of Ned and Sabina either. Bit strange.
I will have another browse through the old Belmullet registers and see if I can find other Shevlanes. There does appear a Jude or Judith Shevlane, who seems totally unrecorded otherwise. If I had more kids for Michael and Anne besides Catherine, Ned and John it might help piece things together a bit better.
-
Operating purely by location, I note Neal Shevlane and his wife Honour Barrett - note the Barrett name coming up again too - are living in Shragh. https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1871/03305/2211063.pdf. Maybe connected to my Michael, an uncle perhaps, or indeed a brother? Saying this it is indisputable that Michael Shevlane who married Anne Barrett is in Toorglass - where Edward and Manus lived - in the 1860s. https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03569/2314783.pdf. He had a son Patt, which gives me four children in total.
-
I have just been looking at Judy :)- as you say nothing later.
Patrick is with his parents in 1901 and his Calpin family in 1911
-
Michael b 1867 to Michael and Anne Barrett - Sraigh
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03493/2283659.pdf
-
Thanks for that extra birth. I think it's now going to be plunging into the old Church registers for further information. If Michael and Anne married in 1858 I'd expect one or two more children. Roughly noting some information on individuals of this generation - seem to be 3 or so Shevlane families in Briska. Namely:
William Shevlane = Catherine Barrett, John Shevlane = Biddy Mills, Bryan Shevlane = Bridget Carey.
Maybe one or two more too. Still pretty certain Richard Shevlane connects into these people, at least John Shevlane = Biddy Mills. Onto Shragh, we have:
Neal Shevlane = Honour Barrett, Michael Shevlane = Anne Barrett.
I expect some connection, and the name Edward is there for both one of Neal's sons and for one of Michael's sons. This does possibly mean that Manus Shevlane of Toorglass, where Michael Shevlane = Anne Barrett lived at one point, is indeed a brother to Michael and perhaps to Neal. I'm just using sheer naming pattern here, which is the best reasoning I can use without records. Like I said time to plunge into Church registers, and that shall wait to another day this week!
-
Baptisms of children to Michael and Ann Barrett
1861
February 7th Edward - sponsors Richard Barrett and Mary Shevlane (to the right of the white strip)
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634606#page/94/mode/1up
1867
Michael (civil birth already posted) baptised 10th March sponsors John Monaghan and Bridget Shevlane
1865
Patrick baptised 8th April sponsors John and Margaret Monaghan
There are probably more than these but these are the only ones which show on Catholic registers, Ancestry.
It might be useful if you check baptisms for sponsors.
I am sure you are doing this already, but collating the names you have according to the townlands might also help.
I have found, that there are so many people with the same surnames in that area that it is very difficult to establish family connections.
-
We have Richard Barrett and Mary Shevlane now. I hadn't yet seen that record. This puts us in good territory - assuming Richard is Anne Barrett's brother, and Mary is Michael Shevlane's sister.
You are right about the difficulty involved. It also shows that it is quite probable everyone related to each other. I'd venture to guess every Shevlane in Belmullet of that era, from Briska to Shragh, was at least a 3rd or 4th cousin. That gives about a 100 - 150 years of ancestry, and ample time for all those families to find a common ancestor.
-
21st February 1841 - Richard Shevlane is a sponsor to Baptism of Mary Geraghty daughter of John Geraghty and Mary Dougherty., Other witness Catherine Dougherty. That means there must have been an elder Richard than the Richard born c.1839, one who is not obviously on the later records. I can't make out location, perhaps something like "Camousran"? Maybe there is a death record for him somewhere though.
29th March 1841 - Richard Barrett appears as sponsor with Mary Barrett (his wife?) on Baptism of Cisly Gibbon daughter of Peter Gibbon and Mary Barrett. This may well mean that Anne Barrett, wife of Michael Shevlane, was sister of Mary Gibbon née Barrett. Assuming this is the same Richard and assuming he was standing as sponsor for his siblings each time. Location here obscured.
15th August 1841 - Richard Barrett again a sponsor along with Mary (?)Hermiston(?) to child of Anthony Barrett and Judy (?)Daly(?). I can't make out the child's name, perhaps Daniel. The location is mostly obscured again, but it seems to begin with "R". Maybe Anthony is another brother of Richard, Mary and Anne?
30th August 1841 - Richard Barrett sponsor once more (quite often it seems) to Margaret daughter of Anthony (?)Gibbon(?) and (?) Conway. Other sponsor is also a Barrett but I cannot make her first name out. Location beginning with a "B" this time, records here are very poor condition I notice.
On same page as the last record from 30th August, two up from the bottom shows a Kelly (Edmond?) having a son Michael Baptised, with wife Honour Daly. I'd be interested to see if anyone can read that name. Searching for information on Terrence Kelly, who might be father of Anthony Kelly (c.1838-1911) given common location of Muingmore. Terrence shown on Griffiths Valuation posted earlier, not directly related to Shevlanes of course. Same Kelly seems to show up as sponsor on 11th April 1842 Baptism a few pages later.
11th May 1842 - Neal Shevlane and Sally Lally show up as sponsors to Ina, daughter of Joseph (?)Tallat(?) and Ina Shevlane. I assume this might mean Ina was sibling of Neal, who died in 1900 and seems to have born c.1827. I fielded earlier that he might be a brother of Edward Shevlane, who in turn might be father of Michael Shevlane who married Anne Barrett.
Realise this is a lot of information, but might help getting it put online. Post more later, got to leave it here for now. Most progress ironically seems to be on Anne Barrett's folk!
-
Have you checked Tithe Applotment records - 1834
I searched Shev* in Mayo
There are only 3 showing
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=Shev*&firstname=&county=Mayo&parish=&townland=&search=Search
Bryan Shevlane, Briska is recorded as Sherlane
Opening the page you will see surnames for the Townlands - obviously the same surnames come up regularly
-
On same page as the last record from 30th August, two up from the bottom shows a Kelly (Edmond?) having a son Michael Baptised, with wife Honour Daly. I'd be interested to see if anyone can read that name.
amac, can you please post a link to 'same page' or an image of the name "(Edmond?)" with enough background for letter comparison for any newcomers to the thread?
Annie
-
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634606#page/8/mode/1up - Rosinish that's the source, for Belmullet Church Baptisms. There are other sources too for marriages, all to be found here: https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0742. Hope this is of use to others.
Looking again at the names I think the Kelly individual might be "Bernard" or "Daniel". Daniel would make sense, since he is shown on 1834 Tithe records:
(http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587457/004587457_00639.pdf).
The name Daniel Kelly is very current in the family. I have a Daniel married to Mary Cosgrove in 1881 - record shows up under 1882. Also a Daniel born c.1832 and died 1915 in Wisconsin, married to Ellen Earley. Looking at dates, the Daniel on Tithe records could have been the father of the Daniel who died in Wisconsin. We also have Anthony Kelly (c.1838-1911) having his first child named Daniel Kelly (1870-1948), who died in Glasgow. I look however at Griffiths Valuation and only Kelly at Muingmore where Anthony lived is Terrence Kelly. So it might be that Terrence was brother to Daniel on Tithe records, making Daniel born in c.1832 Anthony's first cousin. The Daniel born c.1852 who married Mary Cosgrove in 1881 was son of Michael Kelly (shop-keeper) according to his marriage certificate. That might suggest Michael was brother of Daniel on Tithe record and of Terrence. Total speculation at the moment using naming patterns that may or may not have been in use. Sorry for this big digression into Kellys though!
I refer especially to an entry on 1st November 1841, as regards this Kelly. I can't make out the child's name but I do see parents as Michael Deane and Anne (?). Another witness was Catherine (?) whose surname is obscured.
Thanks for those Tithe records Heywood, never saw those before.
-
11th May 1842 - Neal Shevlane and Sally Lally show up as sponsors to Ina, daughter of Joseph (?)Tallat(?) and Ina Shevlane. I assume this might mean Ina was sibling of Neal, who died in 1900 and seems to have born c.1827. I fielded earlier that he might be a brother of Edward Shevlane, who in turn might be father of Michael Shevlane who married Anne Barrett.
This individual seems to be Joseph Barrett, shown here on Tithe record: http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587457/004587457_00637.pdf.
Not sure if he connects to the other Barretts, it is possible probably.
-
I think that Joseph Barrett’s wife and daughter could be Sara.
-
10th June 1842 - Entry with Barrett sponsor, not sure if it is "Bernard" or "Richard". It's for a child named Henry. Difficult handwriting to read.
29th May 1842 - same page, possible match for Joseph Barrett as sponsor. Again diffcult to read.
26th February 1843 - Richard Barrett is sponsor for a child of Michael Carey and Rose Barrett. Is Rose another sibling of Richard's? Or I wonder is he just a "go-to" for being a Sponsor? Perhaps not so directly connected? The location here is "Keels" or something like that.
5th May 1843 - Richard Barrett sponsor with Bridget Barrett for a child named Winifred Barrett, daughter of Thomas Barrett and Winifred Lally. This is in Shragh, a location more familiar. I wonder if there was more than one Richard also? Particularly as he appeared earlier with a woman named Mary and is now with woman named Bridget? I'm assuming he and his wife were joint Sponsors.
24th September 1843 - Anne (?)Mally(?), daughter of Edmond and Catherine Coyle. Sponsors Michael Kelly and Mary Coyle. Maybe same Michael who was shop-keeper and father to Daniel born c.1853?
I also forgot to mention the Neal Shevlane and Sally Lally connection for Joseph Barrett's child. Neal was married to Honour Barrett. Michael Shevlane (around same generation as Neal) was married to Anne Barrett. It might be possible that these are different Barrett families, but I suspect Honour is Joseph's sister. I suspect from the other records posted Anne is sister to Richard, Anthony, Rose = Michael Carey and Mary = Anthony Gibbon. This is ambitious but we might just guess that there were the following Barrett siblings:
Richard, Joseph, Anne = Michael Shevlane, Honour = Neal Shevlane, Mary, Rose and Anthony. It is also possible to throw in a Bridget Barrett who appears alongside Richard in one record above. Moreover, it is possible to guess that Neal and Michael were brothers, perhaps with father named Edward whose birth is given online as 1788-1790. Source for that unclear. This is entirely guesswork of course.
This is how far I've gone today, will reprise this in a couple of days time.
-
I hope you don’t mind my saying this - do take care. Hopefully, you are a good organiser for these names and places.
If you look at names in general for the area, you can see how common certain names are. As you have pointed out, they may be related generations back and they may move from townland to townland but it might be all circumstantial too.
For example, my husband has Barrett in his family. Amongst his hundreds of DNA matches, there are several Barretts. Most do not have trees but looking at shared matches, there are only a few that connect to the family line.
His are from the Iniskea islands and Mullet peninsula.
On one page of marriages, 3 of the four are Barrett - all different families and townlands, including his grandparents.
Irish genealogy shows many Barrett records.
You have a difficult task. I don’t want you to make it more difficult for yourself ;)
-
"On same page as the last record from 30th August, two up from the bottom shows a Kelly (Edmond?) having a son Michael Baptised, with wife Honour Daly. I'd be interested to see if anyone can read that name."
It could be either Edmond or Edward, difficult to say :-\
Annie
-
This recently posted article may be of interest.
"Irish Naming Patterns and Baptism Traditions"
https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/news/irelandxo-insight-irish-naming-and-baptism-traditions
When considering female sponsors, keep in mind that their surnames may have been maiden names. There's a suggestion in the article that a priest might have mixed up mother's and godmother's maiden surnames as a result of "wetting the baby's head".
-
Thanks for those updates. I don't have time today to go into the registers again, but I intend to read those entire documents and continue recording all possible connections with locations too. Then perhaps, we can get somewhere! There do seem to have been a great deal of Barretts in Mayo - I wonder Heywood, if you can give more background information as to how they ended up in Mayo? From what clan origin did they come?
Online the pages about surnames can often be generic, un-factual, and lacking in detail. The Kelly family I only found out more about from an old history book written about Belmullet. The O'Kelly clan inhabited Co. Roscommon and Co. Galway since the early Middle Ages, fighting against the O'Donnells of Donegal in alliance with the Burkes of Mayo in the 1400s. I'll upload source later. Ultimately there exist (as Hallmark has pointed out on other thread) documents showing descent of O'Kelly chiefs from the Provincial Irish Kings and High Kings too.
Yet, I see nothing about Shevlanes. The information seems very sparse and I bet there is more to be learned. Did they originate in Mayo? If not, what century would a move have been likely? Scottish Highland and Island genealogy is much clearer on these issues, through recording of oral lore and family traditions. Many even name "progenitors" from, say, 1650 or 1700. That's the lines I'm thinking along. With the Barretts, perhaps their size indicates two or three progenitors going into those earlier centuries. DNA work en masse would be necessary here, to show who belonged to who.
Certainly Mayo and Belmullet of the Middle Ages seemed to be dominated mostly by Burke family - perhaps akin to MacDonalds in the Uists, or Campbells in Argyll - and their allies. The Burkes were the aristocracy before Queen Elizabeth I of England changed the landscape.
Further into the past, I notice lots of location names. In the Tithe records, the Parish of Belmullet is "Kilcommon". Does this mean "Church of St. Common"? Could this be St. Columba?
-
Is Shevlane a variation of Shevlin? Origin Mayo and Offaly?
Burkes Anglo-Norman from de Burgh.
There was a Saint Coman (Roscommon) and a Saint Colman, St. Columbanus and St. Columba (Columcille). There may have been others with similar names. There may have been more than 1 with the same name. Ireland was the island of saints.
The schools folklore collection, compiled by schoolchildren in 1930s may have legends about Saint Coman.
-
Yes it is. Funnily enough when my great-grandfather emigrated to Scotland the authorities changed his name to Shevlin. We always assumed Shevlane was somehow the more true form, but it's clear that both co-existed for a long time before and after. I don't know the origin, that's my question above and beyond what I can establish using records.
Interesting about Burkes, Elizabeth de Burgh was wife to King Robert the Bruce, and their origin explains status they had in Middle Ages era. I suppose the Anglo-Irish relations, exemplified by these folk, were far more positive before King Henry II did his thing.
Nice info about the respective Saints who might have travelled this area. Must take a look at that folklore collection.
In Scottish Islands and Highlands folklore and "second-sight" are still current phenomena. I wonder if there are many Belmullet tales of this kind? Is it still a thing over there?
-
The O'Kelly clan inhabited Co. Roscommon and Co. Galway since the early Middle Ages, fighting against the O'Donnells of Donegal in alliance with the Burkes of Mayo in the 1400s. I'll upload source later. Ultimately there exist (as Hallmark has pointed out on other thread) documents showing descent of O'Kelly chiefs from the Provincial Irish Kings and High Kings too.
Stuff left over from other thread....
-
Same lot later....
-
No Shevelin or Barrett....
-
Earlier.....
-
https://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Shevlan
Maiden Stone,
Hallmark posted this earlier re the surname.
Amac2010, I have been reading re early development of Belmullet and Erris. I am sure you have too.
I don’t have access to FindMyPast but do read newspaper snippets. I looked for any for the Shevlane name and found this reference - very brief.
I did find it here then. Unpleasant though it is, it shows that the Shevlane name was in the area in early 1800s.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01oir/
-
Don't forget to keep an eye out for any that used the Gaelic version! ;D
The modern spelling are Shevelin, Shevlan, Shevlane, Shivlin and Shovelin, the meaning is 'the son of the descendant of the swift one' (O' Seibhleain).
-
Quote from a book I have re The Inniskeas.
“There are opposing views on the origins of the Barretts that came to Ireland and Mayo at the beginning of the second millennium.
One view is that the Barretts came as hired mercenaries from Pendyne, Wales during the Anglo-Norman invasion of Ireland in 1169/1170........”
It goes on to say they had come from France in 1066 and settled in Cork, Galway and Mayo.
Another view though is that “the Mayo Barretts came from Yorkshire. King John granted them lands in Tyrawley in the 13th century.”
There is more detail which can probably be found elsewhere.
It also has this statistic:
1901 - Barretts
Whole of Mayo - 1181 persons in 255 households.
Erris - 95 Barrett households
Kilmore Erris Parish (your family are Kilcommon Parish) 31 households
As I said, the book concentrates on the islands and the Mullet peninsula though and not Kilcommon.
-
The North Mayo Barretts were Lords of Tirawley and the chief of this sept (founded on the Irish model) was known as MacWattin.
https://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Barrett
-
That’s right :)
I said more detail could be found elsewhere ;)
-
The genealogies, tribes, and customs of Hy-Fiachrach, commonly called O'Dowda's country : now first published from the Book of Lecan, in the library of the Royal Irish Academy, and from the genealogical manuscript of Duald Mac Firbis, in the library of Lord Roden
https://archive.org/details/genealogiestribe44macf/page/n9?q=Tirawley
-
That’s right :)
I said more detail could be found elsewhere ;)
Was trying to keep things simple! ;)
-
Me too :) I fear we are wandering.
-
Me too :) I fear we are wandering.
Nice part of Ireland for wandering!
-
Amazing!
-
Thanks for all that information! It's good to have background in mind, for context. Interesting O'Kelly research, Hallmark, I wonder where you access these handwritten trees? They would be very nice to have in full and to study at leisure. Are they among those references you give to the Library? If so, I must go sometime.
Nice information about Barrett origins, truly an ancient family of Mayo by all accounts it seems. Shevlanes seem to still evade us - but that was a very interesting snippet from 1815, Castlebar. Bearing in mind Castlebar isn't where I've been focussing though. However I do see some Anthony Shevlanes later on, and perhaps there is a connection. It seems people stayed close to their townships but movement wouldn't have been that strange either.
I've yet to add in details of Shevlanes at "Tallagh", thus far only put down Shevlanes of Briska and Shevlanes of Shragh. More on this later. Will come back to the registers this weekend I think.
-
Just to point out Castlebar was the Assizes - Anthony was from Erris.
https://www.townlands.ie/mayo/erris/
-
Thanks for that.
I found some possible background to Richard Barrett - check this out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riocard_Bair%C3%A9ad. Looks like this Richard Barrett was very celebrated!
I also find another Richard Barrett who died in America - https://fr.findagrave.com/memorial/9185735/richard-barrett. We know this one to be son of Anthony Barrett and Bridget Kelly, of Muingmore. Kelly of Muingmore again it seems. In any case, interesting to think about possible connections here. How does the Richard of the Church registers relate, if at all, to this old Bard of Erris?
-
Reading the article from Wikipedia, he had daughter Mary and son Richard. He was born in c.1738-1740 which makes this son Richard probably born in 1760s-1780s. That makes it just possible that his son was sponsor in the 1840s but that would be a man most probably above 60 years old, if not closer to his eighties. In that case we might have him acting as Baptismal sponsor for his children. When we get to 1861 Baptism, of Edward Shevlane, it seems unlikely this Richard was still living. Conservatively, if born in 1760s or 1770s he'd be pushing 90 or 100. So perhaps we're looking at the 3rd generation here, Richard son of Richard son of Richard? I hope more exists on the Bard to be found.
-
He was born in c.1738-1740 which makes this son Richard probably born in 1760s-1780s. That makes it just possible that his son was sponsor in the 1840s but that would be a man most probably above 60 years old, if not closer to his eighties. In that case we might have him acting as Baptismal sponsor for his children. When we get to 1861 Baptism, of Edward Shevlane, it seems unlikely this Richard was still living. Conservatively, if born in 1760s or 1770s he'd be pushing 90 or 100.
A man wouldn't have been sponsor to his own child. Also unlikely that an elderly man was chosen as sponsor.
-
Sorry I meant his grandchildren. As in he would have perhaps been father of Anne Barrett.
-
Thanks for all that information! It's good to have background in mind, for context. Interesting O'Kelly research, Hallmark, I wonder where you access these handwritten trees? They would be very nice to have in full and to study at leisure. Are they among those references you give to the Library? If so, I must go sometime.
Nice information about Barrett origins, truly an ancient family of Mayo by all accounts it seems. Shevlanes seem to still evade us - but that was a very interesting snippet from 1815, Castlebar. Bearing in mind Castlebar isn't where I've been focussing though. However I do see some Anthony Shevlanes later on, and perhaps there is a connection. It seems people stayed close to their townships but movement wouldn't have been that strange either.
I've yet to add in details of Shevlanes at "Tallagh", thus far only put down Shevlanes of Briska and Shevlanes of Shragh. More on this later. Will come back to the registers this weekend I think.
You would need a whole day just getting and looking at Kelly....unless you are selective to start with and get e.g. the Roscommon ones first, see what counties they end up etc.
-
You get clues just from Index... e.g Winchester ones have same Ref as the lot above!! ;D
-
Then there are the earlier ones....
-
Then see who are on this Pedigee...
-
Sorry, wrong image on last one
The book at Film Reader.....
-
Barrett
-
I'd be inclined to think the ones in red are part of 1 lot!
-
Simple! ;)
-
After that it is a simple matter of ust going to bookshelf to get the book you want! ;D
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/national-library-employee-to-face-trial-over-theft-of-216-books-1.2505775
-
https://irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/visiting/national-library-ireland-nli
-
One also has the Ormond Deeds...see where they originated from or already there etc
But you are much better just going from one end of the chain!!
e.g.
-
Very impressive Hallmark! Even if I never identify precise connections to my Muingmore Kelly family, I can say with some degree of confidence I descend from nearby O'Kelly individuals, who would have lived in 1500-1600 say. That's just a matter of mathematics. I have similar breaks in other branches of my family tree, where common ancestor is known either by tradition or by DNA, but it is impossible to find direct links for 100 or 200 years etc. DNA might help out a lot here, I'd need to ask one of my Kelly cousins to get it done, since lineal male-male or female-female tells us a lot more.
Heywood helped by giving page showing townlands. To come back to Shevlanes it somehow seems more likely that those living in Toorglass would be connected than those, say, in Tallagh. But we can't be sure of course. I am curious about any information perhaps giving detail of when certain townships became occupied, i.e. were there new townships spread out in 18th-19th centuries?
-
I did similar checks for Shevlane (+ vars) ...nothing!!
-
Found only one Richard Barrett in Griffiths Valuation. He is based at Attavally. He should be the son of Richard Barrett, Bard of Erris. Given the dates of the Valuation, probably our witness on those registers. If there was another Richard Barrett, he ought to be on that list of names? Apparently the Bard, his apparent father, knew the Binghams well enough. Visitors to Bingham Castle made a point of visiting Barrett on their travels to Belmullet. All in spite of his Irish Nationalism, for which he spent some time in prison, I read. His second wife was Maire Ni Mhoran, I wonder if her line is documented? The first wife Nancy was daughter of a wealthy landowner Sean Tollett. Anyway, none of this proves outright the relationships between the Barretts, but it does indicate connections. I have contacted another researcher, Barrett herself, via "Ireland Reaching Out". She connects with Daniel Kelly who died in Wisconsin, so hopefully a few things to talk about. I await a reply. One last thing, Griffiths shows "Honoria Barrett" at Bunnahowen. Given locations I think this will be the same who married Neal Shevlane, but the other "Honoria Barrett" at Alt is equally possible. Our Joseph Barrett appears at Toorglass. So at least people are starting to get pinned down a little on the map.
-
So you've only the few for Barratt, Mayo, at NLI to look at.
-
Noting three Thomas Barretts on the Valuation too. One is in Doolough, according with the Thomas Barrett shot dead in 1883. His wife was named Bridget. It is thought the murder resulted from disputes with Arthur Bingham and George Carter. Quite complicated story.
I have a Rose Barrett born outside marriage to Margaret Kelly, in 1905. She had a twin brother John who died after a few months that same year. Margaret herself died in childbirth. The father remains unidentified. I wonder if John would be his name? I tried contacting the Church but no response. The Baptisms aren't online for that time period.
Yes most Library work ought to be Kellys, but the Barretts are getting easier to pin down - even if I can't identify how they all connect.
-
Another 2 films might have Barretts.....
-
If I were researching the Barretts of Mayo I'd be inclined to look at stuff about the Barretts of Mayo at NLI.
-
Heywood helped by giving page showing townlands. To come back to Shevlanes it somehow seems more likely that those living in Toorglass would be connected than those, say, in Tallagh. But we can't be sure of course. I am curious about any information perhaps giving detail of when certain townships became occupied, i.e. were there new townships spread out in 18th-19th centuries?
I agree re Toorglass but as you say, we can’t be sure.
Richard Barrett, poet, was born near Elly Bay, I read, which is below Binghamstown on the way to Blacksod.
Just out of interest, I searched in my husband’s DNA matches using Barrett and Schuylkill County, PA which you mention re ‘Find a grave’. There are a couple of very distant matches but who would know if Barrett is the connection. (he has a Barrett grandparent).
It might be best to research and confirm within a smaller area at first perhaps.
-
Had some contact from other researcher. Her (3x) great-grandfather is Francis Barrett of Srah. There are also Thomas Barretts in her tree. Seems we do all connect somehow, though it's a little complicated. I'm going into the registers again.
-
That’s good news.
It’s reassuring to make a connection.
-
On the same page as Ned Shevlane's Baptism, and more clearly on page before, we have a child named "Marh" (I can't make name out, maybe Martin) Baptised on 11th November 1860 to Richard Barrett and Honor Walsh. Sponsors are Ned Barrett and Mary Gaughan. These registers have bad photocopying! Anyway this gives a wife for one Richard Barrett, if in 1860, probably a grandson of the Bard rather than a son. How does Ned Barrett fit in I wonder?
18th November 1860 - Richard Barrett and Bridget Kelly appear as Sponsors to Bridget, daughter of John (?)Dauid(?) and Honor Donohue.
21st October 1860 - Twins Baptised to Richard Barrett and Honor Gibbons. Can this be the same couple as Richard Barrett and Honor Walsh? Error on the cleric's side? Or two separate Richard Barretts married to two women named Honor? These twins were Catherine and Bridget. Sponsors are Richard Gibbons, Ellen Gibbons, (?)Joe(?) Barrett and Ellen Barrett. Perhaps the "Joe" is Joseph Barrett mentioned earlier.
19th December 1859 - Baptism of Richard, son of Richard Gibbons and Catherine (?)Loftus(?) with Sponsors Richard Padden and Catherine Keane. Presumably this is the same Richard Gibbons from the October 1860 record above, and perhaps a brother of Honor Gibbons who married Richard Barrett?
4th September 1859 - Terence Kelly shows up with Annie Deane as Sponsor for Catherine, daughter of John Barrett and Catherine Lally. This at least indicates Terrence Kelly of Muingmore, from 1834 Tithe Allotments is probably still alive.
27th March 1859 - Richard Barrett and Honoria Gibbons are parents to Edmond, Sponsors are James Gibbons and (?)Sally(?) Gibbons.
15th November 1857 - Mary Baptised, daughter of Mary Barrett and (?)Pat(?) (?)Early(?), Sponsors appear to be Richard Barrett and Pat (?)Ginly(?). Terrible handwriting here and I am not even sure about Richard on this record.
23rd November 1856 - Very poor condition again, but perhaps we have a son Michael born to Richard Barrett with Ellen Conwy as Sponsor. The other names are illegible entirely. Again not sure at all this is Richard.
6th April 1856 - Richard Barrett certainly appears as Sponsor here, with Mary McGragh, for Catherine daughter of Michael McGragh and Mary Miller.
All for now, more later.
-
On the same page as Ned Shevlane's Baptism, and more clearly on page before, we have a child named "Marh" (I can't make name out, maybe Martin) Baptised on 11th November 1860 to Richard Barrett and Honor Walsh. Sponsors are Ned Barrett and Mary Gaughan. These registers have bad photocopying! Anyway this gives a wife for one Richard Barrett, if in 1860, probably a grandson of the Bard rather than a son. How does Ned Barrett fit in I wonder?
I know I have said this before but I honestly doubt that the Richard Barretts you have found are descendants of Richard Barrett, the poet. I just think you need to take care in recording these ‘facts’.
It is difficult because townlands are often not shown on baptism records.
There is a baptism for Honor Barrett 1865 - parents Richard B and Honora Walsh.
Here is the civil birth - residence Dooyork
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03559/2310404.pdf
Dooyork townland
https://www.townlands.ie/mayo/erris/kilcommon/rathhill/dooyork/
If you minimise the map, you can see where it is in relation to your family research.
Catherine Barrett 1865 parents Richard B and Honor Gibbons - residence Derrynameel
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03549/2306303.pdf
Derrynameel
https://www.townlands.ie/mayo/erris/kilcommon/glencastle/derrynameel/
Richard the poet allegedly born Barrack/Elly
https://www.townlands.ie/mayo/erris/kilmore/an-geata-mor-theas/barrack-south/
Apologies for repetitions :)
-
Verified reasonably well that the Bard cannot be direct ancestor, since his son entered Church Ministry according to book "In the Mullet" which details some history. He may well be an uncle or cousin though, how exactly I don't know. The name Richard Barrett does seem to have been known since the 16th century at least. This is an extract from an article on Wikipedia regarding Doolough:
"With the arrival of Anglo-Norman families into Erris, families of Barretts, Burkes and Lynotts settled in the Doolough area. Sir Edmund Barrett, known as the Baron of Irrus, is recorded as residing in a castle at Doolough in 1585. He was knighted by Queen Elizabeth I for his favors to the Crown. His sons Edmund and Richard were brought up in the household of Lord Essex in England. For the family's loyalty to the Crown, King James I in 1605 granted Sir Edmund more land in Erris and also a licence to hold a weekly fair at Doolough.[2]. The castle referred to was likely to have been located in the area known as Caislean or Caiseal. Part of the castle was still in use until 1937,[3] and the cobbles and stones from the castle were removed for the making of roads and houses in the area. The Barrett family went into armed revolt against the Crown in the early 17th century. They were shot and hanged, and their property was confiscated."
Note that both Edmond and Richard appear in these registers. Simple mathematics tells us that between the Baron of Irrus and the Barretts showing up on these registers, there can only be up to 7-10 generations. Not that long a time between 1585 and 1800. Enough to create a major gap in the tree however, with total dearth of records.
-
You’ve mentioned a different area again.
The Barretts are everywhere. ;)
-
Just saw this link on another thread
http://map.geohive.ie/mobile.html
You will find it really useful, I think.
Click on the menu (three bars, top right) and select Data Catalogue
Then Base information and mapping.
Scroll down to Historic Map 6ins B &W
It’s great.
-
It's nonetheless within Erris, and that isn't a huge area. You find that over centuries everyone relates to each other, particularly if in rural landscape. Much the same applies to Scottish Highlands and Islands, with the Clans. Despite very vast territories, the kinship networks are close and strong usually.
-
I am just going from the movements of our own family.
They moved to Massachusetts rather than the other side of Blacksod Bay ;)
As you say though over centuries they may have ventured further.
I just thought you would like the map.
-
Yes, the map helps! I wonder if DNA database has been done for this family?
More findings:
19/21 July 1844 - Richard Barrett and Bridget Carey/Early are parents to Bridget, Sponsors being Thomas Deane and Bridget Hoban. Location obscured but begins with "Lakeg-". No idea why it reads 19+21 where the date is, I assume it might be date of birth and date of Baptism?
1/8 September 1844 - Daniel Kelly born to Patt Kelly and Bridget Keane. Sponsors are Mary (?)Mangon(?) and (?)Kath(?) O'Donnell. Location is Dooyork. Simply of interest in that here is another Daniel Kelly again.
12/14 December 1844 - Mary Gumgal born to Patt Gumgal and Bridget Houston, Sponsors are Richard Barrett and Anne Barrett. Location Doolough - here spelt Doologh.
18/20 January 1845 - Edmond Barrett born to Richard Barrett and Bridget Gaughan, Sponsors Terence Conway and Margaret Kennedy. Location Dooyork.
23/25 January 1845 - Patt Shevlane born to Thomas Shevlane and Mary Laden, Sponsors Thomas (?) and Anne Noon. Surname for Thomas illegible, but location is Doolough. Looking at my map this Thomas Shevlane is likely to be a connection of my Michael Shevlane, as Doolough is not far from Shragh.
(?)/11 January 1846 - Bridget McCandron born to Ned McCandron and Catherine Barrett, Sponsors Richard Barrett and Bridget Barrett. Name spelt "Barritt" on this page. Location is Shragh.
26/28 May 1846 - Bridget Barrett born to Richard Barrett and Mary (?)Longahon(?). Sponsors are Anthony Barrett and Mary Gaughan, location Shragh.
8/11 October 1846 - Catherine Barrett born to Patt Barrett and Sally Shevlane. Sponsors are Thomas Barrett and Margaret Barrett, location Shragh.
(?)/16 September 1849 - Mary Barrett born to Richard Barrett and Mary Lynch, Sponsors are Patt Barrett and Bridget Barrett, location "Belonnel". I can't make out the place name here.
26/27 June 1850 - Bridget Kelly born to Terans Kelly and Mary Conway, Sponsors are Patt Conway and Catherine Conway. Location might be Muingmore. Could this be Terrance Kelly of Muingmore? Perhaps someone can take a look, it would be good to identify him.
1/3 May 1851 - (?) Gibbons born to Richard Gibbons and Catherine Loftus. Sponsors are Richard Barrett and Sara Monaghan, location is perhaps Doolough, again very hard to read.
4th January 1852 - John born to Martin (?)Togher(?) and Catherine Gibbons, Sponsors Joseph Barrett and Ellen Barrett. Location Toorglass - though I'm not certain of that. I expect this might be same Joseph Barrett who shows up earlier?
22nd July 1852 - Catherine Kelly born to Terence Kelly and Mary Conway, Sponsors Michael Barrett and Catherine Conway. Location Muingmore, so that helps settle Terrence. I see "6 19" after Catherine's name, perhaps her birthdate - i.e. 19th June?
4th May 1853 - Child marked on paper with "?" born to Edmond Barrett and Mary Barrett. Sponsors are Richard Barrett and Winny Barrett. Location possibly Doolough.
22nd December 1853 - Honoria born to Martin Togher and Catherine Gibbons. Sponsors Richard Barrett and (?)Nancy(?) Barrett, location is Toorglass.
8th February 1855 - James Barrett born to Richard Barrett and Honor Walsh. Sponsors are Phelim Scanlon and Nancy (?)Morgan(?). Location is "Tallagh--".
That covers the entire registers from 1841-1861 with all known Richard Barretts. I'll have to look in more detail at Shevlanes and bring all this together with locations too.
-
Verified reasonably well that the Bard cannot be direct ancestor, since his son entered Church Ministry according to book "In the Mullet" which details some history. He may well be an uncle or cousin though, how exactly I don't know. The name Richard Barrett does seem to have been known since the 16th century at least. This is an extract from an article on Wikipedia regarding Doolough:
"With the arrival of Anglo-Norman families into Erris, families of Barretts, Burkes and Lynotts settled in the Doolough area. Sir Edmund Barrett, known as the Baron of Irrus, is recorded as residing in a castle at Doolough in 1585. He was knighted by Queen Elizabeth I for his favors to the Crown. His sons Edmund and Richard were brought up in the household of Lord Essex in England. For the family's loyalty to the Crown, King James I in 1605 granted Sir Edmund more land in Erris and also a licence to hold a weekly fair at Doolough.[2]. The castle referred to was likely to have been located in the area known as Caislean or Caiseal. Part of the castle was still in use until 1937,[3] and the cobbles and stones from the castle were removed for the making of roads and houses in the area. The Barrett family went into armed revolt against the Crown in the early 17th century. They were shot and hanged, and their property was confiscated."
Note that both Edmond and Richard appear in these registers. Simple mathematics tells us that between the Baron of Irrus and the Barretts showing up on these registers, there can only be up to 7-10 generations. Not that long a time between 1585 and 1800. Enough to create a major gap in the tree however, with total dearth of records.
I have a hunch that the Barretts and Lynotts didn't like each other...
-
Yes, I saw that! It reflects the brutality of the times, even in picturesque Mayo. Going to do some more reading of the registers soon. While I'm at it, on 28th February 1839 Terrence Kelly married Mary Conway. It looks like "James Kelly" but I reckon it's Terrence, given the appearance of the couple later on. I am curious, however, as to the fact they only appear to have had two children - in the late 1840s and early 1850s. They do seem to have been at Muingmore for both their marriage and both Baptisms. What's going on here?
-
You have Tute's stuff..... I saw one Shenlane mentioned
https://archive.org/details/reportspapersrel00tuke/page/94?q=Muingmore
....even some interesting letters to home
e.g.
-
Long time since I posted anything here, but I returned to looking through the Barretts.
First off I found a Richard Barrett who relates to the Shevlanes:
Richard Barrett (1844-?) = Margaret Murphy (1849-?)
Mary was daughter of Pat Murphy of Bunnawillin. This Pat Murphy was also father of Patrick Murphy (1835-1915) who was father to Bridget Murphy (1871-1953) = John Shevlane (1870-1954). I'm not sure if this Richard Barrett is the one who connects to Anne Barrett though. This one was from Cross, and his father was Michael Barrett. I find a Michael Barrett of Cross dying in 1884, aged 86. He'd have been born in 1798, which makes him an older father to Richard - could he be his grandfather? The informant on the death is Catherine Barrett, Michael's daughter, also of Cross. I also find another Richard Barrett of Cross, dying in 1886 aged 70. Could be an uncle of Richard (1844)?
The Toorglass Barretts seem to be much clearer. I have:
(1) Joseph Barrett (1800-1874) = Ellen (?)
(2) Anthony Barrett (1801-1881) - Bachelor
(3) Richard Barrett = Nancy (?)
These three men would seem to perhaps be brothers, since we find Richard and Nancy as sponsors to Martin Togher and Catherine Gibbons one year, Joseph and Ellen as sponsors the other year. What I do wonder is whether these Barretts connect to the Richard Barrett who was married to Honor Gibbons - since it could mean Catherine Gibbons was a relation of theirs? As yet, I have not found any records for this Richard Barrett or for Honor Gibbons.
Possible record for Richard's wife Nancy, as Anne Barrett (1799-1879), in Toorglass. Informant John Barrett, probably a son. She was already a widow at that point.
In Tallagh, as said earlier in this forum, we find:
Richard Barrett (1835-1916) = Honor Walsh (1837-1911)
Certification shows they moved to nearby Bunnahowen. Richard died in 1916, aged 81. Honor died in 1911, aged 74. Their son James who was born in 1855 acted as informant on both records. Unfortunately, I still can't find a father's name for this Richard. Bunnahowen is also very close to the Shevlanes, so it seems he'd be the most likely match for Anne Barrett's brother.
The other Richard Barrett was in Shragh, and married to a woman named Mary. Mentioned earlier in this forum also. They had a daughter Bridget in 1846. No trace on the records as yet. He could be another match for Anne's brother, given the location.
In Geesala, yet another Richard Barrett appears:
Richard Barrett (1847-1933) = Mary Donohue
This Richard was son of Michael Barrett (1820-1900).
I wonder how they all connect!
-
Hello again,
I have just tried to read over this long thread and I am still confused, as I remarked before.
I may have misunderstood but are you looking at your own line or are you finding others with similar names and trying to fit them in. The surnames you have are very common in the wider area so, if you have not already done so it might be beneficial to start with the ones you have for definite.
Are your family, the Shevlanes from Briska, Bangor?
Where do the Barretts fit in to your own line?
Where are your family in the censuses?
Lastly, and perhaps more importantly, are you looking for discussions on the points you raise or just posting for reference?
-
I'm interested in expanding my own line outwards.
The thread is a bit long, and it goes a while back, so I'll explain the connection. Anne Barrett was married to Michael Shevlane (c.1819-1900) of Shragh. Michael Shevlane and Anne Barrett are my ancestors. Richard Barrett appears as a sponsor for one of their children. I'm assuming Richard is a brother of Anne. As to my point about Richard Barrett and Margaret Murphy, of Cross, it is clear that Margaret was the aunt of Bridget Murphy who married John Shevlane - the son of Michael Shevlane and Anne Barrett. Her father is listed as Pat Murphy of Bunnawillin, who was father of Patrick Murphy (1835-1915) and grandfather of Bridget Murphy (1871-1953) = John Shevlane.
While the surname is common, I've now identified only a few Richard Barretts - and they are highlighted in my most recent post. I didn't factor in those matches which lay far outside the area. That is, I'm only concerning myself with: Shragh, Bunnahowen, Bunnawillin, Tallagh, Muingmore, Toorglass, Cross, Geesala. I've also hammered out a rough idea of Barretts in Derrynameel. While it's not impossible earlier generations moved from further out, e.g. Castlebar, my entire family seems to have stayed in this general vicinity.
While I'm at it, I should re-iterate the other Richard:
Richard Barrett (1849-1894) = Anne Murphy (1855-1907)
He came from Muingmore but emigrated to the United States. He was son of Anthony Barrett and Bridget Kelly.
This might seem quite pedantic, but going through all these records has helped a lot. I have found also that Richard (who went to America) had siblings in Muingmore; John, Anthony, Patrick, Bridget. I note that on my other side, an aunt named Margaret Kelly (1874-1905) had children outside of marriage with one John Barrett. She was from Muingmore herself, and it now seems likely that her partner was none other than John Barrett, son of Anthony Barrett and Bridget Kelly. The different families I've been researching are beginning to link up, and collapse into a broader tree, as the detail is clarified.
Should re-iterate also that Michael Shevlane and Anne Barrett were 2nd/3rd cousins or cousins once removed, given the consanguinity mentioned on their marriage (Church register). This could be pushed if we knew Anne's parents and grandparents. I do note that Edward Shevlane - who seems to have been Michael's father - is listed online as being married to Honora Barrett. Perhaps Honora was Anne's great-aunt?
Likewise, if we assume the names are handed down, I'm wondering how the families in the general area I outlined above find a common ancestry? I've just taken Richard because it seemed distinctive, and it appeared on the Shevlane records. For instance, might we speculate that Michael Barrett of Geesala was son of Michael Barrett of Cross (1798-1884)? This would perhaps be a strong possibility, as Michael Barrett in Geesala had a son Richard. While Michael Barrett of Cross also had a son Richard (or grandson - depending on the generations). I'm not too sure about the Richard Barrett in Shragh yet, who was married to Mary (?). I did find a death of Rose Barrett (1820-1900) in Shragh, and she had a son John Barrett.
Sorry if this is too complicated! I'm going down a rabbit hole with this one.
-
Thanks ;)
-
Hi Tony,
I don't know if you've seen this but thought it may be of interest...
RICHARD SHEVLANE
Date of Death 1915
Group Registration ID 5479001
SR District/Reg Area Belmullet
Deceased Age at Death 71
You may have to post on the deciphering board as I couldn't make out the son's name which will help in identifying the wife/mother?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1915/05257/4457789.pdf
Have you also looked at these?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01qii/
Annie
-
http://map.geohive.ie/mobile.html
You will find it really useful, I think.
Click on the menu (three bars, top right) and select Data Catalogue
Then Base information and mapping.
Scroll down to Historic Map 6ins B &W
It’s great.
Thanks Heywood...
Great map, best I've seen yet!
Annie
-
Thanks Annie.
I don’t know where I found that map but have now bookmarked it. I just had an enjoyable time looking at the various views of my family’s homes. :)
I think the son’s name there is Pat. This looks like the family in 1911 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Glenamoy/Muingingaun/710113/
There are some references to this Richard earlier in the thread - around post #16.
It is odd though, as, if that is ‘son Pat’, Richard states 9 children born and six children living on the census. That shows son John and 5 daughters though.
-
Maybe a longshot but not impossible as many people were unsure of the wording in 1911...
Did Richard think it meant 'living at home' as opposed to being alive :-\
Annie
-
I think the son’s name there is Pat. This looks like the family in 1911 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Glenamoy/Muingingaun/710113/
Agree with heywood, I see Pat.
Note that the Save facility on Geohive still isn't working.......reported months ago.
-
Maybe a longshot but not impossible as many people were unsure of the wording in 1911...
Did Richard think it meant 'living at home' as opposed to being alive :-\
Annie
Yes I wondered that too, Annie.
-
It’s all a bit of a mystery. The children’s births are difficult to find (for me anyway ;) ).
Here is Anne’s - Shevlin
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1894/02268/1852129.pdf
Mother is Anne Carey
I found a baptism for Patrick to Richard and Anne - February 1900 and a death for 3 day old Patrick here.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1900/05767/4629629.pdf
-
It’s all a bit of a mystery. The children’s births are difficult to find (for me anyway ;) ).
Birth of Sarah in 1888 at Muingingane (sic).
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02481/1920726.pdf
https://www.townlands.ie/mayo/erris/kilcommon/glenamoy/muingingaun/
Bridget in 1891.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1891/02396/1893342.pdf
KG
-
Thanks KG. :)
I don’t know how I missed them ::)
-
Sabina aged 5 in 1901 census, registered with a first name of Sibby in 1895. Reply #132
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1895/02190/1828339.pdf
-
May be of interest
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XJP3-DZ7
-
Thanks for all this. Must take some time to look at it in more detail.
I'm not sure which Richard Shevlin this would be, perhaps John Shevlane's brother? My Anne Barrett was born c.1820, so her marriage isn't recorded to Michael Shevlane, too long ago.
I notice Shevlane is a pretty uncommon surname, even in Ireland. I wonder if there are any other fragments of information about the family origins? It seems much less common than Barrett, or the like.
-
John Shevlane and Bridget "Biddy" Mills were in Briska. I had previously thought they might have been my ancestors, but it now seems that my family were instead linked to Michael Shevlane and Anne Barrett. But the 1894 marriage of Bryan Shevlane is still interesting!
-
From the Tithe Allotment Books:
Sheolane Antony Althnabrucky Kilcommon Mayo 1834
Sheran Jas Dona Cormack Kilcommon Mayo 1834
Sheridan Pat Muingnahalloona Kilcommon Mayo 1834
Sherlane Bryan Briska Kilcommon Mayo 1834
Sherlok Luke Garrymore Kilcommon Mayo 1832
Shevlane Martin Tourgloss West Kilcommon Mayo 1834
Shevlane Jms Tullaghane Duff Kilcommon Mayo 1834
Shevlane Anthony Largin Beg Kilcommon Mayo 1834
Looking at the location "Briska" I am led to assume Bryan Shevlane was father to John Shevlane who married Bridget Mills, and thereby grandfather to Bryan Shevlane who married in 1894. If you look at the dates, this Bryan Shevlane from 1834 would probably have a date of birth around 1790-1800. Martin Shevlane is interesting, since the name shows up in my Shevlane family. Must have another look into the Toorglass Shevlane family.