RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: eadaoin on Friday 25 October 19 12:44 BST (UK)
-
How long?
There IS a headstone in there!
-
You should be pleased, in most similar cases I have come across the stone is in pristine condition having been protected by the foliage.
The main thing to remember is not to try to pull the foliage (is it ivy or ground elder) off the stone, but cut the stems and wait for it to die and dry out. It will then come away from the stone with little trouble.
First of all though check that it does cover a stone for an ancestor and if possible contact the owner of the stone for permission to carry on.
Cheers
Guy
-
Whilst Guy Etchells is likely correct, a note of caution. I have seen it in Cheshire where the ivy is holding together a stone that has broken apart. Admittedly, this is a small stone as opposed to the one in your photo which, if broken, would probably collapse under its own weight, ivy regardless. If you believe it might be a family grave and are keen to progress, try cutting away as many of the leaves as is appropriate to enable you to read any text and establish the stone's condition.
-
I took this specifically for Rootschat, but then wondered if it was way too far off topic. Apparently not!
Near Telney, Lincs, two weeks ago.
Martin
-
"Here lies Ivy...." ???
-
Give it another few months!
My IVY is 3-foot wide and 3-foot deep around the base of the stone, and is colonising a few other graves around it.
I could feel an upright from the back - probably a Celtic Cross.
-
A quick glance at your headstone, Eadaoin, and you can almost see a face in the ivy - ;D ;D
Wiggy
-
A quick glance at your headstone, Eadaoin, and you can almost see a face in the ivy - ;D ;D
Wiggy
Certainly can ;D
Cheers
KHP
-
A quick glance at your headstone, Eadaoin, and you can almost see a face in the ivy - ;D ;D
It looks like something out of Lord of the Rings.
-
A quick glance at your headstone, Eadaoin, and you can almost see a face in the ivy - ;D ;D
It looks like something out of Lord of the Rings.
Definitely!
Martin's picture might be an Ent nursery.
Gives new meaning to the term "green burial".
There may be overwintering butterflies or eggs/caterpillars/ pupae among the ivy so please dispose of foliage carefully.
-
When we were travelling in Ireland some years ago we were fascinated by the number of power poles covered in ivy - we thought then they represented Green energy!! ;D
-
Look forward to a pic of what's unde some of the foliage
-
When we were travelling in Ireland some years ago we were fascinated by the number of power poles covered in ivy - we thought then they represented Green energy!! ;D
Were they 40 shades of green?
2 examples of Irish greenery which have taken on lives of their own:
https://twitter.com/Borderirish
Scroll down to the earliest tweet on October 14th.
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/are-you-crinkly-or-squiggly-and-19-other-questions-for-the-irish-border-1.4057969?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Ivy on the custom's hut in the photo resembles a Shetland pony or a bull on hind legs.
PS I have committed an apostrophic error with "custom's hut". So long since they were in use I didn't know the correct form.
-
Look forward to a pic of what's unde some of the foliage
With all the rain we're having, making ivy-cutting very unpleasant, I don't think we'll see anything this side of Christmas.
-
Update: I've managed to uncover a small bit of the inscription.
.. .. .. | .. ..ar wife .. .. |b . .g?et gately? | .. .. | .. .. |
(?? dear wife?? . . . Bridget Gately??)
-
Trouble is they are protected and one is not allowed to clear them of Ivy.
-
Trouble is they are protected and one is not allowed to clear them of Ivy.
Not sure what you mean.
It is not legal to remove many types of Lichens from gravestones but there is no law that prevents ivy from being removed. I should of course remind forum members that gravestones are the property of the person who bought it or the people who now own it through inheritance. He/she/they may not want the ivy removed and their permission should always be taken before anything physical (even washing) is done to a gravestone.
Cheers
Guy
-
The “ face “ looks like The Green Man, a figure from folk history.
Not exactly sure of the history.
I think the name might be more modern than the idea ,Jack in the Green may have been the same “ person”.
Viktoria.
-
Trouble is they are protected and one is not allowed to clear them of Ivy.
Not sure what you mean.
It is not legal to remove many types of Lichens from gravestones but there is no law that prevents ivy from being removed. I should of course remind forum members that gravestones are the property of the person who bought it or the people who now own it through inheritance. He/she/they may not want the ivy removed and their permission should always be taken before anything physical (even washing) is done to a gravestone.
Cheers
Guy
Maybe not in England but they are protected in Ireland under National Monuments Acts 1930 to 2014. and under several Wildlife Acts.
Plus, as you say, interfering with other people's property is also an offence under the Law, I presume same applies in UK.
-
Maybe not in England but they are protected in Ireland under National Monuments Acts 1930 to 2014. and under several Wildlife Acts.
Plus, as you say, interfering with other people's property is also an offence under the Law, I presume same applies in UK.
I have not been able to find an reference to ivy in the Acts you mention, perhaps you could point me to the specific legislation.
Cheers
Guy
-
.. .. they are protected in Ireland under National Monuments Acts 1930 to 2014. and under several Wildlife Acts.
thanks, Hallmark, for noting those Acts.
I can well understand how the ivy protects the wildlife. We regularly have birds nesting in our garden ivy, and I never trim it in spring once the birds are nesting.
I had better give up my quest on this grave!
-
Holly Blue butterfly. Caterpillar food plants holly and ivy. Spring generation eggs laid on holly, summer generation on ivy. Summer generation overwinters as pupae on ivy. Holly Blue in Ireland may be single or double-brooded, depending on location.
https://www.irelandswildlife.com/holly-blue-celastrina-argiolus
www.butterflyireland.com/HollyBlue.htm
https://butterfly-conservation.org/butterflies/holly-blue
Conservation status: Fully Protected under Northern Ireland 1985 Wildlife Order.
Habitat: A common garden visitor; also seen in parks, churchyards, hedgerows and woodland rides.
-
Hire a Surveying Endoscope?
Surveyors use them to see hidden structure etc in building voids, bricked up cellars and vaults.
Added
Mind you don't scratch the lens against the stone and have to pay for a replacement lens!
Mark
-
Thanks for that suggestion, Mark
-
It's interesting how this overgrowth depends on the gravestone material. I made a fruitless search in the churchyard at Penmon in east Anglesey several years ago. Most of the stones were in fine purple Snowdonia slate, and looked as if they had only been there a short time, not over 100 years. Maybe the smooth surface makes it harder for things to take hold, but I suspect there may be a chemical reason.
-
It's interesting how this overgrowth depends on the gravestone material. I made a fruitless search in the churchyard at Penmon in east Anglesey several years ago. Most of the stones were in fine purple Snowdonia slate, and looked as if they had only been there a short time, not over 100 years. Maybe the smooth surface makes it harder for things to take hold, but I suspect there may be a chemical reason.
I did a university work placement transcribing in a cemetery and noticed the same. Some very old stones looked new, while others which were only decades old looked as though they had been there for centuries. I'm not sure why, but I suspect it has something to do with the way some materials react to air pollution - happy to be told I'm wrong though.
-
Slate is very impervious and why it was also used as a roofing material. Slate should breathe naturally.
Granite is very hard and also impervious too.
Concrete is hard, but like some types of Stone, it does not resist rain weathering as well and the surface eventually erodes. When it is moist/wet, hard UK frosts or freezing weather (year after year) will damage brick, stone & concrete surfaces.
Acid rain also accelerates weathering.
Mark
-
Update from OP!
This graveyard is very old, and there are several notable people buried there. Over the last year, a local group has publicised the stories behind some of the headstones. This has led to a great deal of tidying of graves, new headstones etc. And the "elves" have been busy doing general tidying over the autumn and winter.
I didn't have to cut back the ivy . . when I visited after Christmas this is what I found
-
Congratulations to all those involved in the clear-up :-* :-*
-
Is the inscription still able to be read after supporting all that ivy for years?
-
Update from OP!
This graveyard is very old, and there are several notable people buried there. Over the last year, a local group has publicised the stories behind some of the headstones. This has led to a great deal of tidying of graves, new headstones etc. And the "elves" have been busy doing general tidying over the autumn and winter.
I didn't have to cut back the ivy . . when I visited after Christmas this is what I found
That's pretty impressive!
I did a 300 mile round trip to a cemetery in Lymington Hampshire 2 years ago, knowing several of my family are buried there. It was disappointing to find the place neglected and a lot of older headstones so weathered, they couldn't be read.
-
Is the inscription still able to be read after supporting all that ivy for years?
yes - the ivy seems to have protected it.
I'm waiting until the light is better before taking a proper photograph to put up on the web..
Bridget Gately of Denmark Street, 1923, aged 63 (that's the gist of it)
Many of the stones are very weathered - the oldest I've been able to (partly) read is from 1728, but there were burials long before that.
My avatar as at January 2021 is the church in the cemetery
-
It's interesting how this overgrowth depends on the gravestone material. I made a fruitless search in the churchyard at Penmon in east Anglesey several years ago. Most of the stones were in fine purple Snowdonia slate, and looked as if they had only been there a short time, not over 100 years. Maybe the smooth surface makes it harder for things to take hold, but I suspect there may be a chemical reason.
I did a university work placement transcribing in a cemetery and noticed the same. Some very old stones looked new, while others which were only decades old looked as though they had been there for centuries. I'm not sure why, but I suspect it has something to do with the way some materials react to air pollution - happy to be told I'm wrong though.
Yes, that is one reason, another reason is location of the stone and the material it is made of, some of the soften stones are severely affected by erosion form dust carried on the wind, others such as slate suffer from water seeping into the layers and causing spalling, others (sandstones, limestones) may have their surface minutely dissolved by water, either rain or washing.
Mosses, ivy grass and even burying the gravestone protects it from erosion, but if the inscription is concealed then even though it is protected it is not really serving its intended purpose.
Cheers
Guy
-
Thanks for updating a year later
It gives hope for others visiting neglected grave yards .