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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: sunflower on Sunday 08 December 19 12:41 GMT (UK)

Title: Am I clutching at straws.
Post by: sunflower on Sunday 08 December 19 12:41 GMT (UK)
Would you say these families are connected

For years I have been looking for the baptism of Joseph Kershaw c 1800.  He married Hannah
Breeding in Mansfield in 1820 and he died in Mansfield in  Oct 1849 aged 50.  In 1841 he is aged 45 and said yes to being born in the County.  Looking at the baptisms for Mansfield there seems to be only one other Kershaw family around and that is Samuel & Ann.

Samuel married Ann Jackson in 1804 at Mansfield and it states he his a bachelor.  In the 1831, headcount, census of Mansfield there is only Joseph and family and Samuel and family living there.
Joseph also named his first two children Samuel and Ann.  Would you think that Samuel and Ann were Joseph's parents?  I suppose he could be the illegitimate child of Ann, but nothing found. 
I have a document that states Samuel came from Tintwistle. 

Carol
Title: Re: Am I clutching at straws.
Post by: mrcakey on Sunday 08 December 19 13:30 GMT (UK)
There seems to be too much circumstantial evidence pointing to the idea that he would be the son of Samuel and Ann, but the ages don't really match. In the 1841 census, enumerators were instructed to round the ages of those over 15 down to the nearest 5, so 45 is the youngest Joseph would be. So, if he told the truth about his age in the census, you need to be looking for baptisms from 1791 onwards.

How sure on you on his age at death? Again, following the age in the 1841 census, he should be 52-57.

The other thing I would say is that just because you've not found a baptism record doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If the family wasn't a member of the established churches then records are more sketchy.
Title: Re: Am I clutching at straws.
Post by: Jebber on Sunday 08 December 19 14:06 GMT (UK)
Ages and birth places can be problematic, you need to look for alternative re odds. Have you looked to see if Samuel left a Will? I would also look for anyone else named  Kershaw who may have left a Will around the relevant period.
Title: Re: Am I clutching at straws.
Post by: sunflower on Sunday 08 December 19 15:27 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the replies.

I have Joseph's death certificate and the age is 50.

No Samuel didn't leave a will.  I do have a document dated 1810 regarding Samuel and is brother Thomas. It does state that Thomas arrived in Mansfield in 1801 from Tintwistle.

Thanks
Carol

 
Title: Re: Am I clutching at straws.
Post by: Annie65115 on Monday 09 December 19 15:01 GMT (UK)
Thomas Kershaw (?Samuel's brother?) and Jane also had 2 children baptised in Mansfield- James Hardman (1807) and John (1809). There's no marriage for Thomas and Jane on the Notts FHS disc - perhaps they married before they came to Notts?

Could it be that your Joseph was born before the family moved to Nottinghamshire, and is shown as born IC on the 1841 census either from a lazy or mistaken enumerator, or from Joseph having no memories of his actual birthplace?

Familysearch has several Kershaw baptisms at an independent chapel in Tintwistle, but none that I can see for Samuel, Thomas or Joseph. Where did folk from Tintwistle go if they weren't noncon?

Edited to add: This must be the marriage for Thomas and Jane, given the surname:
Thomas Kershaw + Jane Hardman, Manchester, 23 Nov 1806 or 7 --- this is from FS, no image available, and isn't on lancsOPC so I can't see further details.
Title: Re: Am I clutching at straws.
Post by: larkspur on Monday 09 December 19 15:35 GMT (UK)
The only marriage I can find for Hannah Breeding and Joseph Kershaw is in East Markham= not Mansfield= on 8 Aug 1820. https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58184cd6e93790eb7f8b5377/hannah-breeding-joseph-kershaw-marriage-nottinghamshire-east-markham-1820-08-08?locale=en
Title: Re: Am I clutching at straws.
Post by: Kay99 on Monday 09 December 19 15:47 GMT (UK)
Hannah Breeding is listed on the census as born Bothamsall, Nottinghamshire next door to East Markham, so maybe she went home to marry  :-\

Kay
Title: Re: Am I clutching at straws.
Post by: sunflower on Monday 09 December 19 16:34 GMT (UK)
Thanks very for your replies.

I do have the information on Joseph and Hannah and their children.  It's the connection between Joseph and Samuel that I am stuck on.

Annie - Apart from ordering a few wills on Kershaws of Tintwistle I haven't really delved too deeply into the Tintwistle families. I am hoping to find a connection between them.


Carol
Title: Re: Am I clutching at straws.
Post by: Annie65115 on Monday 09 December 19 17:27 GMT (UK)
I see that Samuel was a bookkeeper at the cotton mill, and a librarian at the Mansfield Mechanics Artisans' library, so an educated and literate man. But Joseph was a labourer.

OTOH there is definitely a similar pattern of names between Samuel's chldren and Joseph's; I note you say you have these details, Sunflower, but for the benefit of other helpers, here they are:

Samuel and Anne's children:
John
Mary
Samuel
Thomas
Elizabeth Ellen
Elizabeth

Joseph and Hannah's children:
Samuel
Anne
John
Ellen
Henry
Anne
Elizabeth
Sarah
Harriet
Title: Re: Am I clutching at straws.
Post by: Annie65115 on Monday 09 December 19 17:36 GMT (UK)
Nottingham Review and General Advertiser for the Midland Counties 19 April 1844; "Joseph Kershaw, and Joseph Kershaw jnr, of Mansfield, were each fined 10/- and costs----" (at the town hall, Mansfield) -- I can only see 1 Joseph Kershaw. Who was the other one?
Title: Re: Am I clutching at straws.
Post by: sunflower on Monday 09 December 19 18:14 GMT (UK)
It' John Kershaw born 1826 to Joseph and Hannah.

51 census he is John J Kershaw
71 census is  John Joseph Kershaw
91/ 1901 census is John J Kershaw
1911 census is John Joseph Kershaw

Both his marriage certificate and death certificate have him as John Joseph


Thanks for all your help.
Carol