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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: mickawinn on Wednesday 11 December 19 12:39 GMT (UK)
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I have a copy of his 6th March 1933 birth certificate dated 1939 issued for the purposes of Ministry of Labour and not to be used for any other purpose. The birth was registered showing father Francis Charles and mother Elizabeth Jane formerly Martin in Londonderry Urban No 3. I am having difficulty finding any other information on these three.
Why would this copy have been issued, what was the ‘purpose’? Father’s occupation was Constable RWC, I assume R Royal C Constabulary but what was the W?
Any help would be appreciated.
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There are very few NI records on line from 1920 or so on
If you are just searching online this may be the reason you are not finding many
There is just one person named DOUGHEY on the 1911 census of Ireland LINK (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?searchMoreVisible=&census_year=1911&surname=doughey&firstname=&county19011911=&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&parish=&ward=&barony=&townland=&houseNumber=&ded=&age=&sex=&search=Search&ageInMonths=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&yearsMarried=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumber=&protNumber=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=)
and two in 1901
The name could also have variations Dowey, Dowie, etc.
You may have to contact PRONI LINK (https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/proni) to access records
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Do you have the death certificate for John? if so, are names of parents listed? what about a marriage certificate? again, parents?
"R.W.C." is much more likely to be R.U.C. (Royal Ulster Constabulary) in which case, since officers were usually not posted in the county of their or their spouses' birth, Francis & Elizabeth would probably have been born somewhere other than County Londonderry.
Since you likely couldn't read father's occupation correctly I'm going to suggest you've also deciphered the surname incorrectly as well. There is a possible marriage-
30 Mar.1932 Derry registration district, Elizabeth Martin (groom- Francis Donaghey)
This marriage in in GRONI's database but you need to register & purchase a few credits (5) to view it.
Back to the birth certificate- possibly need for school, immigration, pension or other purpose. What is the exact place of birth?
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Surprised to find a Francis Charles Donaghey born 1905 in Derry-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1905/01762/1694038.pdf
? http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Londonderry/Londonderry_Urban__4_/Wellington_Street/604328/
The 1932 marriage certificate should list father's name & occupation to see if the above birth is correct one.
David Donaghey, son of Francis & Agnes-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Waterside/Bonds/1539605/
Marriage of David Donaghey & Winifred McMonagle-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1905/10173/5701094.pdf
Derry Journal, 6 May 1929: DONAGHEY—In ... and loving … Francis Donaghey, husband of Agnes Donagney, 47, Wellington St., Derry, who departed this life May _th, 1928. Sacred Heart of Jesus ...
Londonderry Sentinel, 25 July 1931: … INJURED. A collision occurred yesterday morning at Bond’s Hill, Waterside, Londonderry, resulting in serious injuries to Francis Donaghey (25), of 85, Dungiven-road, who was removed to the Infirmary in an unconscious condition. Donaghey was motor cycling down ...
Derry Journal, 22 Dec.1933: … December her residence, 47, Wellington St., Derry, Agnes, relict of the late Francis Donaghey (shirtcutter) .—R.I.P. Her remains will be removed from above address on Sunday, 24th inst., 2.30 p.m., for interment ...
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Weekly Irish Times [Dublin}, 10 Nov.1934: Irish Police News... Francis Charles Donaghey, an ex-R.U.C. constable, Omagh Quarter Sessions, was charged with the larceny of two £5 notes, the property of Constable …
Londonderry Sentinel, 25 Oct.1934: Former Derry Policeman Acquitted. At Omagh Crown Sessions yesterday, before Judge Linehan and jury, Francis Charles Donaghey, Londonderry, an ex-constable in the R.U.C., was found not guilty of charge of stealing two £5-notes, the property of Constable John ...
Note: there was at least one other Constable Donaghey in Derry at as earlier date.
Possible death for John 2015- is this him?
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Derry City Cemetery (plot M-D-1599)-
Francis Donaghy (parents John & Ann Donaghy), born Scotland, residence- 47 William [Wellington] St., age 71, died 6 May 1928, buried 9 May 1928.
Agnes Donaghey (parents David & Agnes Clinton), born Glasgow, residence- 47 Wellington Street, age 72 years, died 21 Dec.1933, buried 24 Dec.1933.
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Birth certificate attached to help. Any interpretations.
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The certificate clearly says Donaghey and place of birth/residence is 22 Lower Road.
Looking for 22 Lower Road on Streetview that side of the street looks to be re-developed but houses on opposite side will give an idea of what number 22 looked like.
You still haven't answered my previous questions-
Do you have the death certificate for John? if so, are names of parents listed? what about a marriage certificate? again, parents?
Possible death for John 2015- is this him?
Since certificate was issued for Ministry of Labour then perhaps father needed to prove age of child or parentage in 1939.
You will need to view the 1932 marriage to confirm father's name & occupation and it might list father's home address.
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Wellington St. no longer exists-
https://www.derryjournal.com/news/nelson-street-the-street-that-is-gone-but-lives-on-1-8133424
Maybe just a co-incidence- or were the Donagheys living with Elizabeth's family? Again, 1931 marriage certificate might throw light on this
MARTIN—March 24, 1949, at her residence, 22, Lower Road, Londonderry, Mary, beloved wife of the late Samuel A Martin. Funeral to-day (Saturday), 26th inst., at 2.30 p.m., to City Cemetery. Friends will please accept this the only intimation. Deeply regretted.
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The certificate was found in a box with no other associated documents so I don't have any other information. The family don't recognise the names or are aware of any Irish connection. The newspaper quotes sound hopeful, full name and ex RUC as he may have left after the birth of his son. Are there any RUC records available?
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We aren't supposed to post details of anyone who might still be alive but I found a possible death 2015 which I'll forward by PM.
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Francis Charles Donaghey died 1999 Huddersfield district, England (index gives date of birth as 17 Sept.1905).
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Thanks for all the help and information. It gives me a few names to follow up to see if I can make any connections.
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Hi, I just found your post and signed up for the website.
Francis (Frank) Charles Donaghey was my Grandad. What would you like to know please?
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Welcome to RootsChat, Chris :)
The OP (mickawinn) was last online here last month, so he/she should receive a notification of your post and will reply soon.
KG
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Hi KG, Thank you.
Some of the other forum members responding to this post should be Detectives :)
All of their assumptions are correct regarding addresses, actual names and professions.
Cheers,
CD
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Hi Chris
Your grandfather’s certificate was found in the document box belonging to the father of a friend of mine when he died. The father’s name was Cyril Arthur Ronald MCCALL. My friend and his mother do not recognise the name at all and asked me to see if I could find a family connection but to date I have been unsuccessful. Does the McCall name mean anything to you. I can give you some other family names if it helps.
Regard
Mick
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Hi Mick,
Thanks for the reply. The Birth Certificate image that you shared is actually for John Raymond Donaghey (my Uncle) everyone called him Ray. So Ray Donaghey may ring a bell with your friends Mother? Ray sadly passed in 2015. Some more family names would help. I will ask my Father if he knew Cyril McCall. Ray was born in Derry but then moved along with his family to England. He was in the RAF for some time. Whereabouts does your friends Mum live please?
Best regards,
Chris
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Hi Chris
Cyil MCCALL wasn't in the RAF so no connection there. He was born in Willesden and spent most of his life there and Kilburn before retiring to Westgate, Kent. He died in 2009. Iris Mccall still lives there.
A few names to try out, Harvey, Outram, Willson, Willard, Lewis.
Cheers
Mick
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Hi Mick,
I checked with my Father and he has no recollection of Cyril. Also I am unaware of any connection to London or Kent on Ray's part. He actually lived for most of his life in West Yorkshire. After his time in the RAF he worked for British Gas and later at ICI.
Is it possible that Cyril was a prospective employer? Strange that he would have a copy of Ray's birth certificate otherwise. I will check with my Dad about the other surnames you mentioned.
Best regards.
Chris
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Thanks.