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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: artifis on Sunday 15 December 19 16:17 GMT (UK)
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In all of the censuses 1851 to 1891 Joseph is recorded as have been born in Bilston with his birth year as 1820. That is also the year of birth on his death certificate.
I have been looking for a birth/baptism for him at Bilston in 1820 and have come up with a confusing answer:
Family 1:
Samuel born 15 Nov 1807, baptised 26 Aug 1826 at Cann Lane and Ettingshaw Wesleyn, Bilston
Joseph born 21 Feb 1820, baptised 26 Aug 1820 at ditto
Elizabeth born 15 Aug 1826, baptised 26 Aug 1826 at ditto
Family 2:
Joseph born 27 Feb 1820, baptised 18 May 1820 at Bilston – no church recorded.
No siblings found that tie in with this Joseph.
Family 3:
Samuel born 15 Nov 1817, baptised 18 May 1834 at St. Leonard, Bilston
Joseph born ?, baptised 18 May 1834 at ditto
Elizabeth born 16 August 1826, baptised 18 May 1834 at ditto
I suspect that famlies 1 and 3 are the same with a single day difference for Elizabeth's birth day but with initially baptisms en-mass at the Wesleyn Chapel/Church in 1826 and the re-baptisms in the Anglican church of St Leonard in 1834.
I also suspect that the Joseph in family 2 where there's no siblings listed is the one where there's no birth record in family 3 .
In all cases the parents are listed as Joseph and Mary.
Samuel's birth year in family 1 as 1807 might be a transcription error and really 1817 as in family 3. Similarly Joseph's birth day in families 1 and 2.
I think that the children's names sequence and the age difference between children being the same is an indication that they are the same family.
Any thoughts please, am I totally barking up the wrong tree?
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Does he give Joseph as his fathers name on his marriage cert
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I'm researching Joseph for someone else and trying to keep the costs of certificates down for them so we haven't sent for the marriage certificate yet, I was hoping that maybe I could resolve his parentage without but I think we'll have to after Christmas.
He married Sarah Banks in 1845 aged 25 so he should be in the 1841 census but not found he there yet, leastways not definitely.
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Some information on the 1845 wedding
Wolverhampton Chronicle & Staffordshire Advertiser
24th December 1845
Marriages
On the 16th instant, at the Baptist Chapel, Little London,
Willenhall, by Mr Bonner of Bilston, Baptist Minister, Mr Joseph Slater to Miss Sarah Banks, both of Hall Fields, Bilston.
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Thanks Comberton that gives us the actual date of his probable second marriage.
We suspect that he was previously married to a Mary ? around 1840 but that's ongoing research - we're going to get the Joseph/Sarah marriage certificate to see if he's recorded as a widower. If he did we have a candidate plus three possible children but none of those are living with Joseph and Sarah in the 1851 and subsequent censuses - I have found one of my ancestors around this period who 'dumped' his children on his deceased wife's parents and went off and raised another family with another wife, none of the original family were recorded in any of his census return records.
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Hello
This looks like the family on the 1841 census at Hall Fields Bilston
Joseph Slater 56 iron lab y
Mary 55 y
Josh 20 iron lab y
Elizabeth 15 y
Pheobe Baker 5? servant y
Joseph senior leaves a Will in 26.8.1848. late of Hall fields forgeman
Exec son Samuel Slater roll turner West Bromwich and William Griffiths blacksmith Hall fields.
Died 16.11.1847
To wife Mary 2 plots of land in Hall Fields -751 yards and 6 dwelling houses with brew houses etc for life and then to be divided equally between his children who he does not name .
So it does look like Joseph and Mary where his parents.
Can't find details of Joseph juniors 1845 marriage so far.
Sister Elizabeth Slater married Charlie Adams at Darlaston 2.11.1845
The Anglican baptism for Joseph gives Feb 27th 1820 as his birth ,the Wesleyan 21st but I do think you are right and it is the same family as the DOB Samuel matches and Elizabeth's only i day out.
The Weselyian says Joseph is a hammerman and the Anglican labourer but the latter would fit wih the 1841 census and it's reasonable to assume over the years Joseph senior's job may have altered a bit.
Ciderdrinker
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1851 Hall Fields
Mary Slater widow 69 Stone
Reuban 5 grandson West Bromwich
Joseph 1 grandson West Bromwich
1861 3 Bilston St Bilston
John Baker 53 engineer Iron Bridge Salop
Ellen 51 Bilston
Ellen 23 Bilston
Levi 16 lab in ironworks
Edwin 14 scholar
Sophia 11
Alfred 9
Mary Slater wid mother in law 78 Stone
Joseph grandson 11 iron moulder West Bromwich
Ellen married John baker at Walsall 29.12.1828.
Other possible children Joseph and Mary
Eliza born Feb 8th 1816 bapt 4.7.1834 Hallfields at st Leonards
Ellen born 7 June 1809 bapt 25th at Bagnall by affidavit.Which is weird ?
William 25.6.1809 age 2 at Bagnall the same entry
Sarah 8/22 June 1811 at Bagnall
Ciderdrinker
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Thanks Ciderdrinker, some very useful information. Comberton found the notice of the 1845 wedding giving the actual date, I've got the GRO reference so will order the marriage certificate after Christmas.
I am confused about the censuses though as I have a Joseph aged 1 s/o Joseph & Sarah in the 1851 census living with them at Hallfields. I think the Joseph you found is the son of another of Mary's children - I will try and find out who.
This family is really confusing and I suspect there was a number of Slaters all living close to one another. Obviously Joseph was an important name in the family.
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Good Morning
Yes you're right that Joseph age 1 is not the same one as the son of Joseph and Sarah.
He is the son of Mary's other son Samuel and his wife Maria Corbet.
The couple married at Sedgley 23.12.1839.
Samuel Slater roll turner of Bilston and Maria of Sedgley d of Thomas Corbet carter.
Children Dinah bapt Bilston St L 25.10.1840 buried Tipton 29.5.1842 of Great Bridge
Mary Jane bapt 15.10.1843 at St L Bilston
Joseph born and died Sep qtr 1845 at West Bromwich burial ? 31.7.1845 at Christ Church age 1 mth.
Reuben birth reg Sep 1846 West Bromwich
Alice Maria on birth reg Maude on bapt at All Saints West Bromwich born 7.2.1848 bapt 4.11.1849 of Swan Village turner
Joseph bapt at the same time birth Sep qtr 1849
Maria their mother was buried at Christ Church West Bromwich age 29 years 19.11.1849 of Ryders Green.
As you say they are living in Hall fields in 1841
Samuel 20 iron lab y
Maria 20 y
Dinah 8mths y
They are living next door to Joseph and Mary but I still managed to miss them .Sorry !
Possible burial for Joseph Slater the elder at Swan Bank Wesleyan 1.9.1847 age 66 years.
(The Probate must have been a bit later.)
Alice the daughter of Samuel and Maria seems to be with another member of the family in Birmingham St Wolverhampton in 1851
Isaiah Whitehouse 39 key maker Willenhall
Sarah 39 Stanley Staffs
Joseph 11 Willenhall
Mary Ann 9
Isaiah 1
Alfred 1 mth
Alice Slater 4 visitor West Bromwich
Charles Nichols 22 lodger key maker Sutton
Joseph Hodson 22 same Willenhall
Sameul James 21 servant Wednesfield
Sarah White house was a Miss Slater from her son Isaiah's birth reg so she would be another child of Joseph and Mary.
Although I can't spot the actual marriage.
It looks like Mary Slater ,Joseph Senior 's wife died Dec qtr 1865 Wolverhampton age 83 Buried 10 Dec 1865 at Wood St Cemetery.Widow Cannon St Willenhall which is where the Isiah and Sarah Whitehouse are living in 1861,(extra son Laurence age 9 is with them).
Ciderdrinker
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Hi
Had a look at the newspapers for Joseph and found his claim to fame.
He was the first member of the Primitive Methodists Church in this country founded in 1810.
His wife Mary nee Bourne was the second.
Birmingham Daily Gazette 20 Sep 1932
The church was founded by Hugh Bourne in 1810.
The first member was Joseph Slater of Standley in the Potteries and the second his wife Mary nee Bourne a relative of the founder.
Joseph went from the Potteries to Bradley as an ironworker and is buried in the Wesleyan Cemetery at Bilston ,his wife ,the last survivor of the first class is buried in Willenhalll cemetery.
So their marriage must be at Stoke on Trent 25.4.1803
Joseph Slater forgeman of Norton in the Moors and Mary Bourne of the same spinster.
The staffordshire Advertiser 13.2.1847 gives a long long list of partners in the Manchester and Liverpool Banking Company and Joseph Slater forgeman of Bilston is one.
Ciderdrinker
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Here is some stuff on Hugh Bourne 1772-1852
BIRTH 3 Apr 1772
Stoke-on-Trent, Stoke-on-Trent Unitary Authority, Staffordshire, England
DEATH 11 Oct 1852 (aged 80)
Staffordshire, England
BURIAL
Englesea Brook Chapel
Englesea-Brook, Cheshire East Unitary Authority, Cheshire, England
MEMORIAL ID 26463663 · View Source
MEMORIAL
PHOTOS 4
FLOWERS 3
He was born in Stoke-on-Trent,Staffordshire,England,the son of Joseph and Ellen Bourne.As a youth,he was apprenticed to his uncle as a wheelwright,and eventually pursued this trade being principally concerned with windmill and watermill wheels.From his childhood he sought an inner conviction of salvation and he spent,as he put it, "twenty sorrowful years" in this pursuit.In 1799,at the age of twenty-seven,he achieved this goal.From that point on,he began to seek a way to be a preacher of the gospel,although by necessity he continued in his trade.He joined the Methodist movement,but his support of the "camp meeting" type of open-air evangelism did not endear him to many fellow Methodists.He learned much about the camp meeting when the American evangelist Lorenzo Dow (1777-1834)visited England, on May 31,1807,he put his knowledge into practice by organizing the first English camp meeting at Mow Cop,on the border of Cheshire and Staffordshire.The Methodist authorities condemned the proceedings as "highly improper and liable to be productive of considerable mischief in England," and excluded Bourne from the circuit in 1808.Bourne and his followers organized under the name Camp Meeting Methodists.In 1810, William Clowes (1780-1851) was also excluded from the Methodist circuit for much the same reasons as Bourne's exclusion and in 1812 the name Primitive Methodists was taken. The Camp Meeting Methodists and the Clowesites coalesced into one body. Emphasis on the camp meeting as a channel of evangelism was unquestioned.For the next forty years,Bourne travelled widely,founding Primitive Methodist societies,which by the time of his death numbered one hundred ten thousand persons with five hundred.and more travelling preachers. In 1829,a mission field was opened in America,with stations in New York,Philadelphia,and Upper Canada.In 1840,the United States churches became independent of the English Conference.Bourne,at the age of seventy-two,in 1844 undertook a journey to Upper Canada to oversee the mission there.
There is a picture of him on Find a Grave .com
/www.findagrave.com/memorial/26463663
His Will made in 1844 before his trip to Canada leaves everything to his brother James a farmer of Bemersley.
Mary seems to be the daughter of William and Sarah Bourne of Walton near Stone bapt at Norton in the Moors 22.5.1782.
So I'm guessing William and Hugh's father Joseph were brothers.
Mary's brother William Bourne bookkeeper of Stoke on Trent leaves a Will 2.5.1837.
It mentions his nephew Samuel Slater and brother in law Joseph Slater
Brothers Samuel and Thomas and sister Elizabeth wife of Thomas Lord.
I think he was baptised Norton the Moors 7.6.1778.
Siblings your Mary 22.5.1782 ,Thomas 2.4.1786 ,Samuel 184.1788 ,Pheobe 10.4.1792, Elizabeth 18.6.1794
The parents William and Sarah nee and after Bourn were married by licence 6.7.1777 at Stoke on Trent.He was of S on T ans she of Wolstanton and both were single and over 21.
So it could be either that is related to Hugh.
Ciderdrinker
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Wow, thanks for all of that Ciderdrinker, really fascinating information. The person I'm doing the research for will be tickled pink.
Just going to email it all to her for her to then discuss with her mother.
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Has anyone an idea of where/how I can find the value of Joseph's estate, the probate mentioned above doesn't list it.
I have found schedules of later Probates that do list the deceased's estate value but the above Joseph doesn't appear on any such list, leastwise not that I've found to date.
Any help much appreciated.
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Ciderdrinker,
At the end of your second post on 19 December you mention the marriage of William and Sarah in 1777. After nee after Sarah's name I don't understand what you wrote, could you clarify that for me please. Thanks.
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William Bourne of the Parish of Stoke upon Trent in country of Stafford B.
Spouse Sarah Bourne, of this Parish aforesaid spinster
Marriage 06 Jul 1777 Stoke on Trent, St Peter Ad Vincula
Denomination Anglican
Archive reference D1188/9
Record set Staffordshire Marriages
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Thanks Ladyhawk, that clarifies the situation.
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Hi Artifis, so pleased to happen on this conversation even if it is a long time now since it took place. Joseph Slater (1820 - 6 May 1896) is my husband's great great grandfather. He was married to Sarah Banks. I didn't know about the Bourn Primitive Methodist connection but it makes sense as they and the Summers were staunch Wesley Methodists. You can see Joseph and Sarah's headstone on "findagrave" in the Bilston cemetery with their daughter, Caroline Banks Slater at the top of the headstone. You were asking about Joseph's probate and I found the entry for that - I'm sure it's the right one because he mentions his son-in-law, Enoch Summers, in it (Enoch married Mary Ann Slater, known as Polly). I have a family Bible with names and dates. Happy to share more info.
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Has anyone an idea of where/how I can find the value of Joseph's estate, the probate mentioned above doesn't list it.
I have found schedules of later Probates that do list the deceased's estate value but the above Joseph doesn't appear on any such list, leastwise not that I've found to date.
Any help much appreciated.
Hi Artifis, the probate record I have indicates the value of the estate was 58 pounds, 2 shilings and sixpence. Joseph is my husband's great great grandfather. Cheers, Pamela in Sydney
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Hi Pamela - Thank you so much for replying to this post.
I have been working with Artifice on my family tree. Joseph Slater (born 1820) is my great-great-great grandfather on my mothers side. I am trying to find connection to “the potteries” for some vase’s that have been passed down the female line of the family - you may know about these. One is has the inscription “Joseph and Mary Slater 1840” on it.
I would be really grateful for any information you could share.
Many thanks
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Hi Millibeans, so sorry to have only just seen your reply from July last year! I have indeed heard of those vases and always wished I had seen them (or if I did see them, then I wish I had taken a photo of them). Were they in the house at Owlstone Rd with Joan? Anyway, my vague recollection is that I was told the vases/jugs were made for the family members by Josiah Wedgewood. I don't know if that is true but do you have Joseph and Mary possibly marrying in 1803 in Stoke on Trent? At least that would put them close to the potteries then, even if they were later living in Hall Fields, Bilston. The Joseph Slater born 1820, your ggg grandfather, is the son of Joseph and Mary. This thread has interesting information possibly about Joseph senior and who Mary might have been (Mary Bourne). The will that I've located which is possibly his, is dated 26 Aug 1848 and says he was "late of Hall fields, forgeman." Executors were Samuel Slater, roll turner, West Bromwich and William Griffiths blacksmith, Hall fields. An article that may relate to Joseph senior in the Staffordshire Advertiser of 13 Feb 1847 ("Joseph Slater, forgeman, Bilston") then he was a partner in the Manchester and Liverpool Banking Company. Hope this is of interest. Best wishes, Pamela