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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: emeraldcity on Wednesday 08 January 20 18:15 GMT (UK)
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Hi all. Just discovered something fantastic on Ancestry - a letter written by my g-g-grandfather to his brother in law in which he describes leaving England for New Zealand with his son. This is news to me. I did wonder why I couldn't confidently place his death (assuming beforehand he died in England), so this explains a lot.
His name was Robert Atkinson, born in 1868 in Lincolnshire. He states in the letter he travelled to New Zealand with his son Herbert, born 1900 ish also in Lincolnshire. They travelled in 1939, just after the outbreak of war and the letter is addressed from Auckland. I looked them up to try to find deaths - a good bet for Robert is a 1942 death since the age tallies, and Herbert's perhaps in 1973 (no other Herbert Atkinsons?). To order the actual death certificate looks like expensive business though. I've never really done any research into family history that takes place outside of the UK, so this is my first foray into international waters, so to speak (albeit commonwealth ones!). Any pointers appreciated - would like just simply to confirm their date of deaths (and where they died specifically), if Herbert married and had children etc. Thanks!
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I searched on Ancestry, and found a Robert ATKINSON who died on 14/7/1942, buried in Waikumete Cemetery (in West Auckland).
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Details of his wife may help e.g. for an Obit/MI or other?
Annie
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Unless you need a certificate for legal purposes, just buy the printout. These can be emailed to you. New Zealand register entries contain a lot more information than English ones - depending on the knowledge of the informant.
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The Herbert who died 1973 was born 19 July 1900. (From the BDM index)
If you do cave and order it be sure to order the Printout, not the certificate,
NZ deaths contain (hopefully if known by informant)
Deceased
When and where died
Name and surname
Rank or profession or occupation
Sex and Age
Detail of Death
Cause of death
Duration of last illness
Medical attendant who certified the cause of death and when they last saw the deceased
Parents
Name and Surname of father
Name and if known maiden surname of mother
Rank or profession or occupation of father
Burial Details
When and where buried
Name and Religion of Minister or name of witness of burial
Birth Details
Where born
How long in New Zealand
Marriage Details
Where married
At what age married
Children
If living issue, the number, age and sex
To whom married
Informant
Signature, description and residence of informant
If the entry is a correction of a former entry signature of witnesses
Who witnessed the correction.
Registrar
Signature of registrar
Date of registration
11a Moata Road, Onehunga. (That’s Auckland) . Cremated.
Auckland city council record
https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/cemeteries/Pages/RecordDetails.aspx?recordId=9FB8AD7565AA15E9F98760D2A39F197D
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Was he the fourth son?
Marriage here in 1926
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19260424.2.4?items_per_page=10&query=Atkinson+tercel+&snippet=true
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Passenger lists are on Familysearch
https://www.familysearch.org/search/record/results?givenname=Herbert&surname=Atkinson&birth_place=England&birth_year_from=1900&birth_year_to=1900&collection_id=1609792&count=20&offset=0
I haven’t found him yet
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Electoral rolls are on ancestry. You get a better result searching for Kathleen than Herbert because he doesn’t always seemed to have bothered being on the roll!
There is another person living with her in 1978
Robert B Atkinson
Other rolls show this is Robert Brian Atkinson
He was living at the same address on his own after death of Kathleen,
He died in 2003. Index gives dob as 1 July 1935
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https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19350702.2.2?end_date=31-08-1935&items_per_page=10&page=2&phrase=2&query=atkinson&snippet=true&start_date=01-07-1935
Birth of that child
(st Helens was a maternity home in Auckland)
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I searched on Ancestry, and found a Robert ATKINSON who died on 14/7/1942, buried in Waikumete Cemetery (in West Auckland).
Cheers John. That's the one I was looking at. Thanks for pointing out the exact cemetery!
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Was he the fourth son?
Marriage here in 1926
https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/AS19260424.2.4?items_per_page=10&query=Atkinson+tercel+&snippet=true
Thanks a lot for looking. That may be him - he was from Gainsborough, although he was a 5th child (could be misrecorded/misstated?) Never heard the name Toney before as a middle name, though.
Him already living in NZ in the 20s would make sense because in the letter I discovered it actually states that Robert was going to visit his son, not travelling with Herbert. So Herbert was already over there, I think.
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https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19260412.2.2.3?items_per_page=10&query=Atkinson+tercel+&snippet=true
This marriage notice implies known as Tony.
Notice the birth notice had Mrs T Atkinson
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Details of his wife may help e.g. for an Obit/MI or other?
Annie
No idea if he actually did marry. Pretty sure he didn't marry while back in the UK at least, so if he did it was once over in NZ.
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https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/NZH19260412.2.2.3?items_per_page=10&query=Atkinson+tercel+&snippet=true
This marriage notice implies known as Tony.
Notice the birth notice had Mrs T Atkinson
Yeah I noticed that. On the UK records for Herbert (birth, 1901-1911 census) there's no T middle initial. And Tony/Toney isn't a family name (they tended to cycle through all the same kinds of names). But seems a bit coincidental with the Gainsborough connection and Robert being the father.
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Here’s Robert arriving
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DY2W-3H3?i=4&cc=1609792&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQJDN-C8SD
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Was Robert a cabinet maker?
https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/cemeteries/Pages/RecordDetails.aspx?recordId=5E8FBD3B6161D9673431B60E61D3F54D
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Here’s Robert arriving
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DY2W-3H3?i=4&cc=1609792&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQJDN-C8SD
That's him! Super. He said it took five weeks in the letter and he spent a day in Panama City. Wonder if it was a particularly difficult journey as a 70 year old. Very cool being able to see the exact ship as well.
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Was Robert a cabinet maker?
https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/cemeteries/Pages/RecordDetails.aspx?recordId=5E8FBD3B6161D9673431B60E61D3F54D
He was listed as a joiner in the 1911 census so seems like he could have been a cabinet maker.
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The journey would have been fine. My own grandparents did it several times in the 1960s. And my GF once on his own. I am sure the ships weren’t much different.
I suppose he got trapped here by the war.
I am wondering if this divorce file is pertinent.
You would have to get the 2003 death certificate to see if that son had any children. It won’t name them. Only give ages and sex.
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=22751998
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I cannot see a death notice in NZ or UK papers.
You would think there might have been one in England since he died “abroad”
Got to go now.
Hopefully Minniehaha will be on later. She seems to have a secret stash of records..... :)
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I cannot see a death notice in NZ or UK papers.
You would think there might have been one in England since he died “abroad”
Got to go now.
Hopefully Minniehaha will be on later. She seems to have a secret stash of records..... :)
Thanks for all your help. You've found loads of good stuff ;D
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Record for Robert Atkinson
Date of birth Unknown
Occupation Cabinetmaker
Date of death 13 July 1942
Age at death 72 years
Gender Male
Cemetery name Waikumete Cemetery
Plot location Waikumete Cemetery, Anglican Division L, Row 6, Plot 49
Remains type Body
Date of burial 14 July 1942
Funeral director Unknown
Cheers Janette
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The FindMyPast hand written passenger list gives the address he left in the UK as 19 Spring (what looks like) Gardens, Gainsborough.Occupation joiner,
Cheers Janette
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The journey would have been fine. My own grandparents did it several times in the 1960s. And my GF once on his own. I am sure the ships weren’t much different.
I suppose he got trapped here by the war.
I am wondering if this divorce file is pertinent.
You would have to get the 2003 death certificate to see if that son had any children. It won’t name them. Only give ages and sex.
https://www.archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=22751998
Yeah, I'm not sure what his original intentions were but the war must have forced his hand in staying. I get the sense he was quite listless before leaving to go to NZ though - his wife died in 1938 and he writes in the letter about his sadness and aimlessness and the hope the change does him good. Maybe being stuck there wasn't such a bad thing for him after all.
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The FindMyPast hand written passenger list gives the address he left in the UK as 19 Spring (what looks like) Gardens, Gainsborough.Occupation joiner,
Cheers Janette
Thanks Janette. That'll be him.
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When replying to posts you don't need to quote every post,just an answer is fine ;D ;D
Cheers Janette
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When replying to posts you don't need to quote every post,just an answer is fine ;D ;D
Cheers Janette
Apologies if any of my replies have been superfluous, although as well as replying to confirm identifications & clarify specific questions I have also tried to thank all users who have helped. I do make a point to thank anyone who's taken the time to look up records. This isn't a pay site - you all do it because you enjoy genealogy, but there's no obligation for you to help. So I'm grateful for the input and attention of all, especially when I may not have much to give you to go on. ;D Or maybe I'm proving your point by replying superfluously now ;D ;D
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Hello,
What Janette is very politely saying is, "please keep off the 'quote' button!" ;D ;D Unless absolutely necessary, it just takes up space. ;)
Rootschatters are always eager to help and will continue to do so where we can for you.
Sorry Mckha489, I can't pull any rabbits out of the hat for this one. :D
Minniehaha.
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emeraldcity,
As Minniehaha has said hitting the quote button all the time just takes up space and the thread become difficult to follow.We know you appreciate the help being given ;D ;D and we enjoy helping you.
Cheers Janette
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Further to reply #5 [I don't think this has been covered?]
Death:
1980/50551 Atkinson Kathleen Mary 18 May 1900**
Birth:
1900/8831 Tercel Kathleen Mary Katherine Hannah Francis
**Actual D.O.B. was 25.5.1900
Cemetery details:
https://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/cemeteries/Pages/RecordDetails.aspx?recordId=7F5C4331005ED0D39C04F5A6EB62C8CD
Minniehaha.
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The cemetery has the burial as
Waikumete Cemetery, Eucalyptus Glade, Row Sc - Ash, Plot 0
Which means her ashes were scattered in the Eucalyptus Glade
Cheers Janette
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Graphic reply.
Knowing which button to use is easier when we are more familiar with the RC functions.
- Alan.
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Hi
This could be Robert Brian Atkinson dies 2003.
https://billiongraves.com/grave/Robert-Brian-Atkinson/4546497
Regards KK
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Hi
Robert B is also listed in Australian Archive passenger lists. Not much help but may be of interest. I have attached one example.
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=12911617&S=783
KK
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Haha thanks, thought you meant I was posting too much fluff! I’ve actually been corrected on other forums for not using quotes, so it’s a habit I’ve carried over here.
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I'm still a bit unsure about the Herbert identification. It has to be him surely, but no idea where Toney/Tony comes from. And he's even calling himself Mr. T Atkinson according to that paper clipping.
Might sound a bit daft, but does or did the name Herbert ever have a negative connotation in New Zealand? Wonder if he dropped it for a reason?
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Actually ignore the above regarding uncertainty, it almost certainly is him as just noticed a baptism record I have of him confirms the 17th July 1900 DOB. Still perplexed why he started going by Tony?! Haha.
Edit: BDM has his DOB as 19th July 1900, his UK records are 17th July 1900. Still probably the same person?
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Might sound a bit daft, but does or did the name Herbert ever have a negative connotation in New Zealand? Wonder if he dropped it for a reason?
Not that I am aware.
But perhaps he worked somewhere where there was another “Herb” or “Bert”. So someone just started calling him Tony.
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From replies #8 & 32 ......
The date of the birth in the notice fits in perfectly with this previously mentioned death:
2003/21455 Atkinson Robert Brian 1 July 1935
Minniehaha.
Added: Will try and obtain a death notice for you. :)
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Thanks for all ya help! I'm going to order some of those death cert. print outs soon. Never knew I had any family connection to New Zealand before so all very intriguing!
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"2003/21455 Atkinson Robert Brian 1 July 1935
Minniehaha.
Added: Will try and obtain a death notice for you."
UPDATE:
I have drawn a blank re the death notice. It would appear that one was not published.
Minniehaha.
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Cemetery details;
Record for Robert Brian Atkinson
Date of birth
Unknown
Date of death
15 September 2003
Age at death
68 years
Gender
Male
Region
North
Cemetery name
North Shore Memorial Park
Remains type
Ash
Date of cremation
26 September 2003
Funeral director
Davis Funeral Services Ltd
Minniehaha.
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According the new disc put out by the NZSG Index of Death Notices, there is a Robert (Bob) Atkinson died 15 Sept 2003 aged 74 and is in the NZ Herald 17 Sep 2003. Not sure if the right person.
Regards
Kiwi-terrier
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Thank you Kiwi-terrier. I will go back to the person who searched on my behalf and see what comes up. :)
Minniehaha.
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Thanks for the continued search everyone.
Regarding prior unsuccessful efforts to locate Herbert among the passenger arrivals, I think I've figured out how he got to NZ. Looking back over the UK sources I have attributed to him, I'd forgotten he served in the Navy - and the last ship he served on was none other than the HMS New Zealand! Last service date being July 1919. So presumably he decided to stick around. Tallies perfectly with the records of his marriage about seven years later.
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I have been sent the page of death notices from the New Zealand Herald dated 17.9.2003 and there is nothing for Robert Atkinson. ???
[Only an Anne Ada Atkinson who died on 13.9.2003. BDM shows her d.o.b. as 5.10.1908.]
Minniehaha.
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Hope this come through, its a copy from the NZSG Death Index.
KT
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This is the 2013 death. We were looking for one in 2003... :)
2013/24302 Atkinson Robert 25 January 1939
Minniehaha.
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Have you got in touch with funeral director Davis Funeral Services and see if they have a death notice.
Sorry the death notice not right person.
Regards
kiwi-terrier
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KT if the funeral director had a copy of the death notice, it would have been published, as they usually put the first notice in. Not everyone these days put death notices in, which is annoying when it comes to research.
Cheers
KHP
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Have you got in touch with funeral director Davis Funeral Services and see if they have a death notice.
Regards
kiwi-terrier
Unfortunately Davis' are not known for their helpfulness to genealogists.
Cheers janette
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KHP, It was suggestion in case it may have gone in another paper.
Jeanette, I found Davis funerals very helpful in giving information I required on a very old funeral.
Regards
Kiwiterrier
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KT, that's ok, but it did occur to me after posting, that I have noticed death notices in the local rag over the last few years.
Minnie, I wonder if it is worth checking with the North Shore Times (seems strange saying that, I used to know it as the Advertiser)? :D
Cheers
KHP
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Yes it was the 'Advertiser' to me too.... ;D
I can have a go at your suggestion. I seem to remember though that death notices in the local 'rag' were/are few and far between.
Minniehaha.
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Been out of the Shore for years, so have no idea what is in the classifieds now. ;D
Cheers
KHP
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Received death certificate print-outs this evening. They're certainly quicker at it down under ;D
Thanks again everyone for pointing me in the right direction search/resource wise.
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Received death certificate print-outs this evening. They're certainly quicker at it down under ;D
Thanks again everyone for pointing me in the right direction search/resource wise.
And contain more information! ;D ;D
Minniehaha.