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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: kwaussie on Thursday 09 January 20 22:38 GMT (UK)

Title: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: kwaussie on Thursday 09 January 20 22:38 GMT (UK)
Hi there,

I am unsure which board to ask this question on so I thought I'd ask here first.

I live in Australia and I was looking on the British National Archives website for the 'Entry Book of Passports issues Nos.3201-10282' and I was wondering if someone would be able (if possible) to look up a passport that was issued in 1859. I know passports weren't necessary during that time but I was hoping that there might be additional information that will help in my research. I have all of the details but I thought I'd ask first which particular board I need to post it on as there's so many.
Thank you!
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 10 January 20 07:20 GMT (UK)
Are you interested in this particular set of records as you would like to know where your person was going to go?

I can't help with the National Archives but Find My Past has an Index To Register Of Passport Applications 1851-1903.  This gives a name, passport number and date of application.

Would you like me to have a look and see if she/he is listed in this index?  If so I would need the name.
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: kwaussie on Friday 10 January 20 12:13 GMT (UK)
Hi there Girl Guide,

Thank you very much for your offer - I did find the person I was looking for on Find My Past and but it only had their name, number of the passport, and the date of the passport. I understand that this might be all the available information there is on this particular individual - if so it doesn't help too much because I was hoping that it might shed some more light on him. I guess it probably isn't worth pursuing it anymore. What would you suggest?
Thank you very much for your help. 
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: Bookbox on Friday 10 January 20 12:29 GMT (UK)
I was looking on the British National Archives website for the 'Entry Book of Passports issues Nos.3201-10282' and I was wondering if someone would be able (if possible) to look up a passport that was issued in 1859.

Is this what you're looking at?
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C253198

I'm afraid you can't look up a passport. These records available at TNA are simply entry-books - that is, registers of passports applied for. They are in date order (not alphabetical order), and they simply give the date issued, the applicant's name and the number of the passport issued. That's all.
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 10 January 20 12:39 GMT (UK)
It seems from Bookbox's reply that you won't get any further down this avenue.

What are you trying to find out about this person?  If you would like to share his name I'm sure Rootschatters will do their best to help.  :D
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: kwaussie on Friday 10 January 20 12:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Bookbox,

Yes, that is correct, that is the one.

Oh, I see, so that's all there is available - it doesn't really help out too much, which is a shame, I thought it may lead onto something else that contained further information. That's all good, at least I know that I can't follow that lead.

Thank you very much to you all for your help on that one - I've never had to search for a passport issued before, but now I know and unless there's comments in the register I can't really get too much out of them.

But thank you very much to you all that have helped me out in this query, I really appreciate it, thank you!
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: kwaussie on Friday 10 January 20 13:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Girl Guide, yes, you're very right - thank you!

I am trying to do a search for a Dr Richard Hill Smyth, who was originally from the UK (unsure where exactly sorry).

He sailed from London to Sydney on the 'Emma Eugenia' on the 1st January 1835, arriving in Sydney 10th May 1835. He was on board the 'Emma Eugenia' with a Capt Thomas McDonnell. From there he then sailed with McDonnell to the Hokianga harbour (located north of Auckland on the west coast) mid 1835. Capt Thomas McDonnell was taking over in charge of the Horeke ship yard in the Hokianga.

Dr Richard Hill Smyth settled about a km away from McDonnell at a place called Kohukohu in the Hokianga around 1835 - he married, I believe, Kaweora, a daughter of the Ihutai chief, Wharepapa who was from the Kohukohu/Mangamuka area. They had a couple of children together, one of whom was Rihari Mete, born 1840.

Dr Smyth was only in the Hokianga for around 12 years from what I have found, then he went to Auckland, and from there in January 1850 he went to Honolulu on the brig 'Fanny'. He stayed in Honolulu and practiced medicine until 1862 when finally he went back to the UK. Dr Smyth had had a stroke in 1860 so I am wondering if that is why he returned back to UK due to his health.

Dr Smyth sailed back to the UK via Hong Kong on the ship 'Speedwell', under Captain Holdsworth. They left Honolulu 9 Oct 1862, and arrived in London 13 May 1863. I haven't seen a passenger list of his arrival back to London but I was kindly given the ships departure and arrival time in the UK, so I am only presuming that he arrived back in the UK.

I am trying to piece together my mums Smith side, whose family was from the Hokianga, and I am trying to see if we link up with this Dr Smyth, but I would like to know more about his origins in the UK and where he ended up after he went back.

That is all I know on Dr Richard Hill Smyth and if anyone is able to help out in anyway that would be wonderful.

Thank you very much Girl Guide!
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 10 January 20 13:49 GMT (UK)
Can I just verify the surname spelling?  Is it SMYTH OR SMITH.  If it is Smith then it will be really difficult to trace him.

I am assuming that HILL is his second christian name unless is it meant to be a double barrelled surname, i.e. HILL-SMYTH.

Have you ever found any record of his marriage to Kaweora?  It may give a clue to his age if nothing else.
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: Gibel on Friday 10 January 20 14:04 GMT (UK)
There is a Richard Hill Smith of 23 Mornington Road St Pancras London buried on 16 November 1868 listed on Ancestry. I think itís Highgate Cemetery but I am not really sure.


Richard Hill Smith baptised 29 August 1808 Orsett Essex parents Thomasand Charlotte Smith.

The 1851 census shows Thomas and Charlotte Smith living at 23 Mornington Road St Pancras. Thomas aged 78 born Grove Essex and Charlotte 75 born London.
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: Gibel on Friday 10 January 20 14:14 GMT (UK)
Charlotte was Charlotte Hill Dalton and she and Thomas married in 1799. Their marriage Allegation is on Ancestry.

Charlotte died in 1858 and probably buried the same place as her son.
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 10 January 20 14:28 GMT (UK)
Well that is interesting Gibel.

Below is the death registration from the GRO

SMITH, RICHARD  HILL     60 
GRO Reference: 1868  D Quarter in PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 9

This certainly fits in with the birth record that you found.

kwaussie may like to consider getting the death cert for this.  Obtainable as a pdf for £7.00

The cert should hopefully give his occupation.
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 10 January 20 14:38 GMT (UK)
This appears to be Charlotte's burial record

Surname - Smith
First names - Charlotte Hall
Burial date - 28 January 1858
Authority - Highgate Cemetery
Location - Highgate Cemetery (Camden)

The Hall is probably meant to be Hill as per death registration from GRO

SMITH, CHARLOTTE  HILL     82 
GRO Reference: 1858  M Quarter in SAINT PANCRAS  Volume 01B  Page 162
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: rosie99 on Friday 10 January 20 16:41 GMT (UK)
Morning Advertiser 13 November 1868
On the 11th inst at 23 Mornington Road, Regents Park, Richard Hill Smith Esq late of Honolulu, Oahu, only & beloved son of the late Thomas & Charlotte Hill Smith
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 10 January 20 16:46 GMT (UK)
Oh well done Rosie, great find.  That would seem to verify that we have found the right man.  I wonder if his death certificate will be the clincher in referring to him as a doctor?
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: kwaussie on Friday 10 January 20 21:16 GMT (UK)
Hi Girl Guide,

Yes, Smyth is his surname judging from the records I have found - I was worried about it being Smith too, but it is Smyth, however in saying that I have seen it as Smith a few times. Having it as Smyth has made it easier to find him though thankfully.

Unfortunately no, I haven't found his marriage to Kaweora, but I have seen whakapapa of Rihari Mete (Richard Smith) of Kohukohu who has his mother as Kaweora (they may not have been married but I can't confirm/deny this as of yet). I did go through the Methodist and Anglican church records in Auckland some years back but I ran out of time to have a good look at them - I was very slowly sifting through them (I live in Australia and time wasn't on my side).

When Richard arrived in the Hokianga he is mentioned in the early books as being a Dr. Smyth/Smith, and when he went to Honolulu he was a Dr. there too practicing medicine under the surname of Smyth.

Wow, I've just seen the rest of the postings by rossie99 and Gibel - it looks like that has to be the Richard Hill Smyth that I have been after, and his surname was Smith, that's interesting. I also saw that Charlotte's surname was Hill, that's even better.

When Richard arrived in Sydney in 1835 on the 'Emma Eugenia', the newspaper article had his name as Richard Hill Smyth (his profession was merchant); some of the newspaper articles that I have found has his name as Richard Hill Smyth (from advertisements that he had placed in the Honolulu newspapers); the ones that he has been a witness to something it is just plain R. H. Smyth, and newspaper articles that mention his name had it as Smith/Smyth. So it looks like it has to be him, and judging from the notice in the 'Morning Advertiser' it definitely has to be him.

Thank you very, very much for finding that Girl Guide, Gibel and rosie99, I really appreciate your help in finding that. If it's too much to ask are you able to send me a digital copy of the newspaper articles please if that's okay? I can message you my email address. Thank you! I have access to Find My Past but not to the newspapers.

Yes, I will definitely order a copy of his death certificate and see what else it mentions there.

Now I have to try and see if Richard links up with another Smith that I am researching on in the Hokianga, a Henari Mete (Henry Smith) who could be the son of Dr Richard Hill Smith. That is another challenge, one I have been working on for many years.

Thank you so, so much for all of your help everyone, I really, really appreciate it, thank you! This is a great help and means a great deal to me, thank you!
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: Girl Guide on Friday 10 January 20 21:27 GMT (UK)
I've done a copy of the newspaper snippet about his death.  I will pm you in a moment.
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: kwaussie on Friday 10 January 20 21:47 GMT (UK)
Thank you Girl Guide!
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: rosie99 on Saturday 11 January 20 07:50 GMT (UK)
This looks like Richards baptism

Orsett, Essex 29 Aug 1808
Richard Hill Smith
Parents Thomas & Charlotte

It would appear that Thomas & Charlotte had an earlier Richard Hill Smith who was also baptised at Orsett
Baptised 14 Dec 1806
Buried 08 Jul 1807
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: kwaussie on Sunday 12 January 20 23:45 GMT (UK)
Thank you rosie99, thank you very much for finding that. Yes, maybe their first son passed away and he was named after him.

Thank you everyone for all of your help in finding this information on Richard Smith, I am very grateful to you all, thank you.

Just a question. Because he was a Dr would it be easy to find out where he would have received his training or would that very difficult?

Thank you!
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 13 January 20 08:20 GMT (UK)

Just a question. Because he was a Dr would it be easy to find out where he would have received his training or would that very difficult?


I found these using search engines, I don't think that it will be easy to find out where he trained.  You would also need to know what 'type' of Doctor he was

https://www.rcgp.org.uk/about-us/the-college/who-we-are/history-heritage-and-archive/researching-a-medical-ancestor.aspx

http://www.nhshistory.net/hospitals_and_medical_education.htm
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: kwaussie on Monday 13 January 20 11:22 GMT (UK)
Thank you rosie99, I will have a good look at those links.

Yes, that is a good point - I don't know what type of Dr he was. I do know that he practiced medicine in Honolulu but to what capacity I don't know. He's mentioned in the early missionary journals of the Hokianga in NZ of treating the local preachers and their families, and I am guessing the other people of that area.

Thank you very much for the links rosie99, thank you for your help!
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: kwaussie on Thursday 30 January 20 01:18 GMT (UK)
Just an update everyone. I received the death certificate for Richard Hill Smith - all of the information that everyone had found on his birth, death and family is all correct. I really appreciate all of your help. It has put another piece into my very large jigsaw puzzle - I now know more about Richard Hill Smith which helps understand more background of the families I am trying to do research on in NZ. I will continue on another Smith line in the hope that I'll find that crucial piece that will marry everything up.
Thank you for all of your help everyone - you have been really wonderful - thank you!
Take care and enjoy your day.
Kind regards,
kwaussie
Title: Re: Regards to Entry Book of Passports at The National Archives
Post by: Girl Guide on Thursday 30 January 20 07:09 GMT (UK)
That's good to hear kw  :D  Another piece of your family jigsaw put in place.