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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Tanya 4 on Sunday 19 January 20 17:47 GMT (UK)
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Hi I'm researching my family tree, but I have hit a brick wall. I'm looking for a Mary Smith married to George Maskill I think they lived in haw park cottages Wakefield. Herbert Lloyd Maskill is my Father in law he lived at haw park cottages with his wife ivy feather. I've been trying for a week now but I can't get my head round this.
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Welcome to rootschat :).
You really need to give some dates - are you saying Herbert was the son of Mary & George? When was he born/died?
What are the results of your searches on free.bmd.org - Herbert's birth should be on there
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Welcome to RootsChat! ;D
From FreeBMD.org.uk:
Marriage, June qtr 1937
Pontefract Registration Area vol 9c, page 296
Maskill, George
Smith, Mary
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Hi Tanya -- a warm welcome to Rootschat.
I am assuming the George Maskill is the father of Herbert Lloyd Maskill who is shown on the marriage record of Herbert to Ivy Feather in 1934. Is that correct please?
It is not clear from your message who George is -- and just for future reference it would be really helpful if you could give some idea of dates in a query.
I only found the details of Herbert's marriage by searching West Yorkshire marriages on the Ancestry website - on that, is a father George. Hence that's why I think this may be whom you mean (or rather his wife!)
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Death of Herbert Lloyd:
Herbert Lloyd Maskill aged 59 Mar qtr 1973 Lower Agbrigg RD W Yorkshire
Birth Date: 11 Aug 1913
Volume: 2c Page: 1466
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Hi yes you have the right people I just can’t trace Mary smiths parents and thank you for the warm welcome I’ll try to get better at posting lol
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You will be able to identify Mary's father & his occupation from the marriage entry on Ancestry [as detailed by Pennines] - this may be available at a local library for free is you do not have a subscription - or by purchasing the marriage certificate from https://www.gro.gov.uk/ using the reference given by KGarrad.
ADDED: From the dates of marriage it would appear that George who married Mary in 1937 is Herbert's brother if Herbert married in 1934? Unless George IS Herbert's father & married for a second time? Can you clarify the relationships please, Tanya?
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So do I have to go to the library in the town they were married in or my town library? Sorry for being so dumb about this search
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Results so far have the George & Mary marriage in 1937 but the death record indicates that their son Herbert Lloyd was born 1913. Is this correct?
Pheno
Oh sorry Josey see you made this point earlier.
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Can you clarify the relationships please, Tanya?
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Sorry Herbert is Mary’s son he was born in 1913 but her family confuses me big time
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Ooooo the penny has dropped there’s some inconsistencies even with this relationship
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The marriage entry on Ancestry I identified was for Herbert actually - BUT I agree with you Josey -- there is a marriage for a George Maskill to Mary Smith in Pontefract Reg Dist in 1937 BUT this is after Herbert's marriage -- hence I am not sure if this is the correct marriage.
If it IS the correct George Maskill and Mary Smith wanted by Tanya - this late one in 1937 must be a second marriage.
I would have thought - if researching the blood line - Tanya could do with Herbert's actual mother from his birth cert.
Just seen that Herbert is Mary's son! However he has given his father as George Maskill on his marriage!
Tanya -- you can find Herbert's birth on FreeBMD -- you can obtain the details ie District, Q/E, Vol number and Page number and order on line from General Register Office.
Alternatively search the GRO birth registrations and order a PDF copy for £7
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp
You will need to register the first time you use the site.
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So is George in fact a step father. Just one generation back it’s confusing lol but intriguing
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So is George in fact a step father.
You don't know that for sure, Tanya, unless you get the certificates. It's easy to make assumptions....
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There is a possible marriage in Wetherby in 1889 for George Maskill and Mary Ann Smith. George and Mary would have been married for 24 years, but it is not impossible that Herbert was a late child (very) of this couple. There is a birth for a Herbert Maskill in Wetherby in the right quarter of 1913, mmn Smith
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He could be -- but in 1913 a Herbert Maskill's birth was registered (no middle name of Lloyd) - with a mother's maiden name of Smith --- in Wetherby Registration District. (As just mentioned).
Hence unless the couple weren't married BUT still used the husbands surname - then his father's name was Maskill.
Sorry to keep banging on, but you need that birth cert to be sure of the birth parents.
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I’ve looked on free bmd it says his district of birth is bramham
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I have been looking for Herbert’s siblings in the GRO index and 3 siblings born after 1901 and before 1911.
Charles Henry 1902 reg district Tadcaster
Hilda May 1904 reg district Tadcaster
Alice May 1908 reg district Tadcaster
Using Charles Henry I was able to locate the family on the 1911 census in Bramham with Oglethorpe west Riding Yorkshire. Parents George Maskill aged 42 and his wife Mary Ann Smith aged 41. They had been married 22 years which would tie in with the marriage already found. There are two older children on the census.
George and Mary Ann are in Bramham in the 1901 census in the same place. I think George’s birth place is Kippax.
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I’ve looked on free bmd it says his district of birth is bramham
According to Freebmd Bramham was only a registration district between Jun 1862 and Sept 1869, so cant be the registration district for Herbert?
Added - I see that Bramham is part of Wetherby Registration District!
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There is another possible late child for George and Mary Ann - Harold Victor - Wetherby - mmn Smith 1912.
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Well I still can’t find him on ancestry I think I need to order his birth certificate. He’s my husbands father but they never spoke of family I don’t think they did in those days :-\
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Seems a trend that they gave their children middle names 🌈
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Findmypast has this baptism in the parish of Bramham
Herbert (no middle name) Maskill
Baptised 12 Sept 1913
Parents: George and Mary Anne Maskill
George's occupation: Labourer
Abode: Bramham
It is not uncommon for a child to be registered with a name, then names added at the baptism, but not in this case. I wonder where Lloyd came from ???
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A middle name like that is usually someone's maiden name - ie a mother or grandmother. However I have also known it to be a vicar! Maybe it was after Lloyd George who the family may have admired!
Tanya -- if you do order the birth cert -- although other info has been found for you since that topic, -- you would need to show the Registration District as Wetherby - as shown on the Civil Registration Index of FreeBMD
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Tanya - do not order the birth certificate through ancestry - it will cost you a lot more and is no faster.
Order directly through gro.gov.uk
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Thank you everyone for your great advice. The hubby thinks his sister may have a copy of the cert ( I doubt it tho) if not I will order it through gov. Com because I just want to know ???
Ps I like the profile photos and pictures you all have
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Thank you everyone for your great advice. The hubby thinks his sister may have a copy of the cert ( I doubt it tho) if not I will order it through gov. Com because I just want to know ???
Ps I like the profile photos and pictures you all have
Mine is my gran, her first marriage in 1926. She looks a bit like the Queen Mum did on her wedding day.
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It’s so sweet. Bless :)
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So I called at my sister in laws today to see any birth certificates ecti got ivy and Herbert’s full marriage cert and Herbert’s short birth certificate the only additional info on it is that he was born in wetherby yorkshire.
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Tanya - thank you for the update. I must confess my ignorance here as I don't know what a short birth certificate reveals.
Does it show both parents' names including mother's maiden name please? If so - just for completeness - what are they please?
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Short birth certificate (Vital certificates):
Over the years, the UK registration offices have issued many types of birth certificate. The most common of these was a Short Birth Certificate. This type of birth certificate was traditionally given free of charge to new parents when they registered the birth of their child. Short certificates were also issued from Somerset House to persons that were adopted at one time. This was to prevent the adoptee from knowing that they were adopted and to protect the identity of the birth parent(s).
The problem with this type of certificate however, is that these certificates do not record the names of either parent. Due to current identify fraud legislation, most official organisations, both in the UK and abroad, will no longer accept a Short-Form certificate as evidence of identity.
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Thank you Chempat. I didn't know all that - although I had heard of short birth certs and knew they were free. I really appreciate you sharing that information.
Thank you again.
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Long form Birth Certificates contain the following wording:
Warning: A Certificate is not evidence of identity
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I’m going to order a full certificate.