RootsChat.Com
General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: Kaybron on Wednesday 22 January 20 09:53 GMT (UK)
-
One of my top matches is 154 cM. The person I match with does not have many people in his tree but I have been in touch with the person who manages his tree. From our shared matches I have established that we must be connected through my father, not my mother. My father's family largely lived in the Croydon, Surrey area and this person's mother (I shall call Mary) was also born in the Croydon, Surrey area. Through contact with the tree manager I have been told Mary does not know who her father is. I have looked at the DNA Painter tool and think my 154 cM match could be a half second cousin. If he is a half second cousin, what common ancestor would we have.
-
For a second cousin the persons you would share in common is one of your great grandparents couples
It goes cousin match common persons equals a grandparent couple
second cousin match common persons equals a great grandparent couple
third cousin match common persons equals a great great grandparent couple, and so on
The half bit as in half second cousin means that rather a couple match at say great grandparent level you just match one of the great grandparents
-
Thank you for explaining. Is it possible with this cM of 154 to be a half first cousin match, a child of my grandfather. When you put in this cM into the DNA painter tool it mentions that the probability of this is 0%.
-
Whilst that would be possible it would be extremely unlikely, a bit like winning the lottery!
Have you considered it might be half first cousin once removed as that has a possibility of 25 per cent?
The diagram here
https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4
shows how a half first cousin once removed fits in
-
Have you considered a difference in generation so that the 'removed ' option comes in to play? Do you know 'Mary's' age? Is she the same generation as your father or you?
Gadget
-
You may be able to narrow down the options further by analysing shared matches.
-
Thank you for the responses Craclyn, Gadget and davidft.
My grandfather was born in 1898 and his last child with my grandmother was in 1939. My father was born in 1920. Mary, the mother of my 154 cM match was born in 1931. My grandfather has 2 possible brothers that could be Mary's father.
I am of a similar age to the person I match with.
Kaybron
-
You appear to be the same generation as your match, though not definitely.
Without half or removed coming into it at all, you are possibly 2nd cousins, i.e. shared great grandparents, possibly 3rd cousins, shared 2G grandparents.
That would be Mary's father was either a brother of your grandfather's, or a brother of your great grandfather's.
As Craclyn said, shared matches could give further clues.
Regards Margaret.
-
Thank you sugarfizzle for this information.
Mary's father could only be a brother of my grandfather. My great grandfather's brothers had all did well before Mary was born.
I think I am on the correct track with possible fathers for Mary. There are 2 brothers of my grandfather, either one could possibly be the father.
Thank you for suggestions. I am still learning how to analyse shared matches.
Regards Kaybron
-
In that case, Kaybron, likely to be 2nd cousin, not half or removed, I think.
Half 2nd cousin would be descended from your great grandfather or your great grandmother, not both, i.e. your grandfather's half brother (possibly somebody you don't know about as yet). Is this likely?
Full 2nd cousin would be descended from the couple, your great grandparents.
Given the figures and relationships described, there is nothing to suggest half relationship, though it is not excluded.
You say you have two candidates already, 2 great uncles, are there any living descendants?
They would be the best people to test.
Regards Margaret
-
Yes there are living descendants. A son of one of the great uncles and a daughter of the other great uncle. I am not sure how I would go asking them to take a test. I understand this would be a good way to help work things out. I recently emailed both of them as I touch base with them every so often and update on births and deaths in my family and any other family history information. They both live in England and I live in Australia. I did tell them about my husband's recent discovery of a half brother through an Ancestry DNA test, something that was a huge surprise for him. There was no intention of asking them to do a test, simply to let them know of something quite remarkable that happened with my husband's family, a situation that has been extremely positive on both sides. One has replied to my email and nothing was mentioned about DNA, the other has not replied to my email. Not sure if he still has the same email, perhaps he may be not well.
I do know that the 154 cM match, his mother Mary does not know who her father was. Mary and all of my father's family lived in close proximity to one another. Mary's birth certificate gives a father's name but this is not her real father according to her son. In the 1911 Census, the father named on the birth certificate was living at an address where my grandfather and my great uncle were living.
It is possible that my grandfather does have a half brother and I do not know about this yet. Anything is possible.
Regards Kaybron
-
Kaybron, You can only ask.
I recently found through DNA a previously unknown 1st cousin once removed, the implication being that his father was a full cousin.
His father did not know either of his parents as a child, brought up in the care system.
This has still not been satisfactorily concluded, but I did ask a cousin who I have never seen as an adult, to have DNA testing, as it appeared likely that his father was my match's grandfather.
It turned out most likely not to be the case. I was hesitant to ask him, but thought both my cousin and my match had the right to know. Luckily he agreed.
A bonus of this is that I have extra information by having a cousin tested.
Regards Margaret
-
Thank you sugarfizzle. I will see if both are willing to complete a test. Both are interested in family history. One in particular has written 2 books on our family and had them published. He has been involved in traditional methods of research for over 40 years and may be open to use new technology to assist in solving mysteries. I can only ask.
I will keep investigating some of the avenues you have suggested. I am in touch with the person who manages Mary's son's tree and DNA results and we are working together to try and establish our connection.
Regards Kaybron