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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Wiltshire => Topic started by: taylorwallace on Saturday 25 January 20 21:14 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone help with marriage details for a Mary or Margaret marrying at this church in this year? In 1861 she was living with a Samuel Franklin in Islington and they both moved into the workhouse in November 1861. They were not married but she used the name Franklin. There was a child William aged 12 in 1861. They are not on the 1861 census. The information comes from the workhouse admission details but unfortunately the writing is indistinct so I have no married name for her but could be LANE or DANE. If there is a transcript available for these marriages, I would go through it to look for a match.
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There are a number of marriages for St James, Trowbridge on FindMyPast.
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Can you confirm which census you found them on as you appear to give 1861 details then say they are not on the 1861. I can’t find an 1861 entry as you don’t give any birthyears or birthplaces
How have you arrived at 1830 St James?
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The 1861 information comes from the admission records on their admission to Pancras workhouse, Nov 21, 1861; not from the census. That says that she married in 1830 Trowbridge while showing that Samuel married in 1829 in London to Mary Eliza Wood. Samuel baptised in 1811 (born1808) in St James, Trowbridge, base born to Elizabeth.
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Per 1829 marriage entry - he was Samuel Tanner Franklin. A William C or E Wood was one of the witnesses - marriage was 25.10.1829 Christ Church, City of London
What birthplace is given for the 12yr old William you mention? If William was their son and if his birth was registered it could be looked up to get her maiden name. If he was Samuel & Mary Eliza's son then ................
Was Samuel a mason on the admission records?
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This may be nothing to do with the Samuel and Mary/ Margaret you are searching for but
Samuel Franklin married Mary Deacon, at st James Trowbridge on 16 Dec 1828
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Hi
There is a marriage of a George Franklin to Mary Gale on 17th Jan 1831 at St James Southbroom (not sure if that is near Trowbridge).
I saw your previous posts re Clayton Street. My family also lived on Clayton Street in Islington. They originated in Wiltshire and Somerset and are called Marsh. There are other names in the mix - Keeley, Webb, Sweeting, Gardiner.
Did young William have a surname?
Cheers
Ginger
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The Samuel Franklin/Mary Deacon Marriage in Trowbridge has Samuel a Groom and a Widower. Also one of the witnesses is a William Franklin.
Nic
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We are not looking for a Franklin marriage in Trowbridge. Mary/Margaret was only known as Franklin but her name on the admission records was her actual married name. So we are looking for a marriage in Trowbridge in 1830 only for somebody called Mary or Margaret who married somebody whose name could be Lane/Dane or similar
That says that she married in 1830 Trowbridge
The information comes from the workhouse admission details but unfortunately the writing is indistinct so I have no married name for her but could be LANE or DANE. If there is a transcript available for these marriages, I would go through it to look for a match.
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There is a Mary Wheeler who marries a Phillip DEAN 3/10/1830 Trowbridge St James.
This is just searching on the Parameters of Mary marring in Trowbridge in 1830 and not checking years each side or nearby villages.
Nothing appears for Margaret for 1830 Trowbridge.
Nic
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Thank you all for your helpful leads. I have for many years tried to find the baptism of Samuel Tanner Franklin in 1808. He only seems to be on the 1841 census with his wife and children. He was a market trader at Borough Market selling fish and vegetables at different times. The 1841 census suggests he was born in London (Y rather than N) but I am not sure that this is correct. One of his children died in tragic circumstances in 1847 and an Elizabeth Franklin of Coles Buildings, nr St Sepulchre, believed to be the child's grandmother gave evidence at the inquest.
Samuel left his wife but continued to maintain her even though he was living with another woman; not clear whether child William referred to at the workhouse was anything to do with him or whether he was a child of the lady's marriage; the writing is not clear enough to decipher the surname.
It is purely circumstantial but I am looking at the theory that Samuel, born illegitimately to Elizabeth in 1808, came up to London from Trowbridge and that he knew the lady he later moved in with from years before. The Tanner name could refer to the putative father but obviously I am clutching at straws with this. I could go back to the London Metro Archives and get someone to check the workhouse entry and I will follow up on some of the suggestions made. Just wanted to give some of the background to my request.
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I've just search for Mary/Phillip Dean on 1861 census and they appear to be together in Trowbridge. So that marriage appears to be a dead end.
Nic
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Thanks; will continue searching Trowbridge but only when I have had the workhouse writing analysed!
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Ancestry
London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge
Name: Saml Turner FRANKLIN
Admission Age: 54
Record type: Admission
Birth date: abt 1808
Admission Date: 14 Jan 1862
Admission Place: Islington, Islington, London England
Liverpool Road Workhouse Register 1861-1862
FRANKLIN Saml Turner, aged 54 - married, partially disabled - Lamnefs
from 29 Clayton Street, Caledonia Road
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Discharge Date: 19 February 1862
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? What age is Mary/Margaret on the Admission Records
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Thanks; already have this. He was in and out of the workhouse till his death in Pancras workhouse in 1864 from bronchitis. The Nov 1861 entry is the only one that mentions his lady friend/common law wife and as mentioned before, he was not at Clayton Street at the time of the 1861 census.
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Coles Buildings were demolished abt 1848 along with 3 Fox Court, Brewers Yard and the Bell Inn to enlarge Smithfield Market. They were near Long Lane.
The Ref below will take you to them on the 1841 Census
HO107; Piece: 728; Book: 1; Civil Parish: St Sepulchre Without Newgate; County: Middlesex; Enumeration District: 1; Folio: 18; Page: 31
But no Elizabeth Franklin in residence
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Does anyone have information on the Franklin and Tanner Families in Trowbridge from 1807 till 1829? My particular interest is Samuel Franklin base born to Elizabeth in 1808 and baptised on 25/12/1811 at St James. There are Tanner children born at the same time to Samuel Tanner and Letitia, John Tanner and Mary, and there is a James Tanner who married Mary Ann Baggs on 25/5/1830 at the St James Church. If I have the right Samuel, he added the name Tanner to his name by the time he got married in London in 1829 as Samuel Tanner Franklin. My theory is that one of the Tanners was his putative father. James and Mary Ann Tanner came up to London also and there is a suggestion that Samuel Tanner Franklin moved in with Mary Ann Tanner in the 1850s in Islington. Are there any known links between the Tanners and the Franklins?
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? - as Elizabeth stayed in Trowbridge after Edward was born - ? do bastardly orders exist - obviously she kept the child!
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?
Baptism at Trowbridge : 19 Jun 1785
Elizabeth FRANKLIN
parents: Edward and Maria
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Marriage at Trowbridge
21 December 1806
Edward FRANKLIN - Widower
Elizabeth NEWMAN - Spinster
Marriage at Trowbridge
Edward FRANKLIN - of this Parish, Bachelor
Jane EBSWORTH - Widow
1 May 1815
witnesses: Elizabeth FRANKLIN and (Wm NIGHTINGALE - who signs many marriages)
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Wiltshire Record Office
Reference: P1/1817/102
Title: Commission, will wrapper
Date 1817
Personal Name: FRANKLIN, Edward
Place Name: Lady Down Mill/Trowbridge/Wiltshire
Occupation: FULLER
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Thank you for the information about Elizabeth; I am not sure that she ever married. I will look up the will reference. Certainly Elizabeth kept Samuel so I will try to find out if a bastardy order was made and if so whether it does link him to the Tanners. Clearly she was still around in Trowbridge till at least 1817.
taylorwallace
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Ancestry
The Will of Edward Franklin of Trowbridge 1817
of Lady Down Mill, Trowbridge: Fuller
- mentions his wife Elizabeth and an under age son George
Baptism at Trowbridge: 17 May 1812
George, son of Edward & Elizabeth.
Mentions: William WEEKS of Islington Parish of Trowbridge, Bookkeeper
Richard LITTLE of Hilperton, Wiltshire, Master Shearman.
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If you visit Wiltshire Family History Society
www.wiltshirefhs.co.uk/index.php/component/content/article?id=4128
It will take you to the name index for their publications. CD20 contains the pdf name list for bastardly bonds.
Nic
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Thanks to Nic and Capetown; will follow up.
taylorwallace
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If you Google
Lady Down Mill Trowbridge
there are a few photographs of the old water mill.
National Archives also brings up a few hits.
The marriage of Edward FRANKLIN to Jane EBSWORTH (Widow) at Trowbridge, 15 May 1815
Edwd FRANKLIN Junior (is how he signs)
witness: Elizabeth FRANKLIN - either Edward's Snr's wife - or Edward Jnr's sister!
very confusing...