RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Leanbh na Cuaiche on Saturday 15 February 20 20:18 GMT (UK)
-
My 2nd Great Grandfather was born in Derry Beg, Drumachose, Derry, Ulster, Ireland in 1838 and emigrated to New York in 1868 with his wife. I am looking for any information on John Joseph Hill.
-
What was his wife's name, please?
Bev
-
Welcome to Rootschat Leanbh :D
There is a record of either a birth or a baptism on Family Search for a John Joseph Hill.
Born/baptised 9 May 1838 at Drumachose, County Londonderry, Ireland. Parents are William and Elisa Hill.
The information is from the Ireland Births and Baptisms, 1620-1881
-
There is a naturalisation record for him also on Family Search, dated 1860
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-8937-FVBY?i=1281&cc=2043782&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQVT7-5Y4X
-
There is a record of either a birth or a baptism on Family Search for a John Joseph Hill.
Born/baptised 9 May 1838 at Drumachose, County Londonderry, Ireland. Parents are William and Elisa Hill.
The information is from the Ireland Births and Baptisms, 1620-1881
The Family Search record shows the child as John Hill (no middle name) and it most likely from Drumachose Parish (Church of Ireland) baptisms-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5TT-2ZV
Possible siblings-
George (1841) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5TT-K8N
Alexander (1844) https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5TT-Y6P
Derry Beg townland (just outside Limavady formerly known as Newtownlimavady)-
https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/keenaght/drumachose/derry-beg/
-
Thanks - I've been on Family Search but never got these links before. The family has died out and left me with very little information.
-
Born/baptised 9 May 1838 at Drumachose, County Londonderry, Ireland. Parents are William and Elisa Hill.
rootsireland [I took out a 24 hour subs this morning!] shows birth 9 May baptism 27 May. Address Fruit Hill, Drumachose.
I note naturalisation paper found by GG states 'Joseph John' not John Joseph....
-
Fruit Hill is the next townland to Derry Beg ;)
https://www.townlands.ie/londonderry/keenaght/drumachose/fruithill/
-
Can you tell us the origin of the information you have, please, to prevent duplication?
-
Family Search & Ancestry. Additionally I have some information from the Tithe Applotments. I only began this search in 2018 after DNA testing lead me to living 3rd & 4th cousins.
-
I know you said the familysearch links were new but what else of the information we have found for you is correct or new? And are you after any specific information?
What do you have from the tithe applotments?
-
I have all of the Family Search information and entered it into my Ancestry Tree.
I found John Joseph Hill and Ellen Oliver in the Tithe Applotments but little else. Ellen was born in Derry Beg in 1845.
I know that they settled in New York and that their 3 children were all born here. One child served in the Spanish American War. He married Margaret ( no last name ) who was born in New York in 1868.
I know that they had 3 children, one of whom was my father. All 3 children are deceased and I am the only descendant, although the other two were married. No issue that I can find.
-
I think what people are asking is: are you looking for the Irish side of this family, meaning maybe the descendants of the other two sons William and Alexander?
Or, are you trying to fill in the details on your father's side in the US? Like other children of John Joseph Hill and Ellen Oliver, their censuses, deaths, etc.
If your father and his 2 siblings (male or female?) have died, what were there names? Do you know where they lived and died, etc.
----
On the Irish side, I didn't find any marriages for an Alexander or a William Hill between 1863 and 1880 in Derry that would match. Only a William, of Cullyrammer, who married in the Presbyterian Church in Aghadowey, 3 Nov 1865. I think that is too far away from Drumachose to be a likely match, I only mention it, just in case I am wrong.
-
Sorry for the lack of specificity. I had meant to indicate that no one remains on this side of the Atlantic to provide any further information on this direct line of Irish ancestry. My DNA from Ancestry indicates Scots/Irish ( surprised me as I thought all Irish ) and coupled with the fact that they were from Ulster leads me to believe that they settled in Ulster during the Ulster Plantation. I have most of the necessary information on the family after settlement in America, courtesy of a surviving 4th cousin, as well as generally available information from public records.
-
Then I suggest these websites in addition to familysearch
https://www.rootsireland.ie/ [subscriptions available for 24 hours, 6 months or a year] which has transcribed parish records linked to the unindexed scanned records at
https://registers.nli.ie/ which can be browsed for free page by page; also https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ which has searchable indexed civil records & some indexed church records.
-
Thanks.
-
This is the only marriage of a John Hill and Ellen Oliver I can find in the civil records, and it doesn't match the father's name, or location, of the man born in Derry with a father named William:
Marriage 4 July 1868, at the Registrar's Office, City of Armagh, Armagh
John Hill, 25, bachelor, a weaver, of Letmacollum Parish Lisnadill, Armagh, father: Robert, a farmer
Ellen Oliver, 22, spinster, of Ballymarran Parish Lisnadill, Armagh, father: Henry, a laborer
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1865/11587/8264175.pdf
-
There may be a bit of confusion here which needs to be sorted out. Did John Joseph Hill marry an Ellen Oliver (born 1845 Derry Beg)?
If yes then-
1) John Joseph Hill in New York pre-1860 so marriage more likely to be in U.S. (N.Y.?) rather than Ireland.
2) lots of Olivers in Limavady area (the ones at Drumsurn, outside Limavady, go back to 1700s and have extensive family tree but they were also found in other townlands)
3) Tithe Applotment in 1830s so Ellen Oliver born 1845 will not be there (only head of household listed)
4) "https://registers.nli.ie/ which can be browsed for free page by page" as Catholic Parish Registers which probably won't help in this case
5) "also https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ which has searchable indexed civil records & some indexed church records" the civil records there probably too late- registration of births & deaths started 1864 and non-Catholic marriage from 1845
What hasn't been mentioned is the bits of 1831 census which survive for Co. Londonderry and are online (free)-
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/ (type in Hill for surname, select 1831 for census year & Londonderry for county then Ken*ght for Barony)-
Widow Hill in Derry Beg (2 females in household- both Presbyterian)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Kennaught/Drumachose/Derry_Beg/6/
-
I found John Joseph Hill and Ellen Oliver in the Tithe Applotments but little else.
As I understand it, the Tithe Applotment Books were 1823 - 1837, so before either John or Ellen were born. Griffiths Valuation was made between 1858 - 59 in Co Derry https://www.failteromhat.com/derry.htm
Where do you have John's wife's maiden name recorded? Is it on birth certificates for the 3 children?
Bit of an overlap, aghadowey but I though I'd post anyway.
-
Tithe Applotment was 1826 for Derry Beg. A Robert Hill is listed there and also a James Oliver but I can't see an Ellen Oliver there at all.
-
http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/derry/tithe-applotments/drumachose-parish.php#
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MHXL-QQQ
-
http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/derry/tithe-applotments/drumachose-parish.php#
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MHXL-QQQ
The first link does not show an Ellen Oliver anywhere in Drumachose Parish so I don't understand "I found John Joseph Hill and Ellen Oliver in the Tithe Applotments but little else." (reply #6)
The 2nd link takes me to a blank page :-\
Forgot to mention about this earlier reply-
"also https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ which has searchable indexed civil records & some indexed church records"
The church records on Irish Genealogy only cover a few counties but it does NOT have anything for Co. Londonderry.
-
I have a few ideas to find more details in Irish records (if such records survive) but need more details on the family from U.S. records.
You said they went to New York- do you mean New York City or N.Y. State?
Have you found when and where John Joseph and Ellen died?
I know that they settled in New York and that their 3 children were all born here. One child served in the Spanish American War. He married Margaret ( no last name ) who was born in New York in 1868.
I know that they had 3 children, one of whom was my father.
Your grandmother was born 1868?
Her maiden name is unknown so does this mean you haven't found her marriage yet?
Added- were any of the 3 sons alive at the time of the 1930 census? if so what is given for birthplaces of parents?
-
I have a few ideas to find more details in Irish records (if such records survive) but need more details on the family from U.S. records.
I was just about to say something similar.
Leanbh na Cuaiche, do you or your 4th cousin have a tree online? Could you post a link? Even if it is a paid site, someone here probably has access to it.
It would help very much if we could see the US records and work backward before looking in Ireland. Right now the only couple that matches is in Armagh, but the only birth that matches is in Derry, and they both can't be right.
-
Just to eliminate this record-
On the Irish side, I didn't find any marriages for an Alexander or a William Hill between 1863 and 1880 in Derry that would match. Only a William, of Cullyrammer, who married in the Presbyterian Church in Aghadowey, 3 Nov 1865. I think that is too far away from Drumachose to be a likely match, I only mention it, just in case I am wrong.
This marriage was to a Mary Jane Murphy, William was a widower and his father William was also a labourer.