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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Linda Dawson on Wednesday 19 February 20 07:36 GMT (UK)
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I am researching the children of a Thomas Meldram and I think an Ann Gladstone. I have found three possible children, Mary born abt 1808, George bn 25 Jun 1810 and Elizabeth bn 1811. I am particularly interested in whether there is a baptism record for George. I have found a marraige on Ancestry for a Thomas Meldrem and Ann Gladstone in London in 1792 but don't think this refers to above. All 3 say they were born in North Shields so I think the most likely Church would be Christ Church. Thank you Linda
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I can have a quick look at Christchurch while I am at the archives today if nothing is posted before then
Christine
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Thank you
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I did look at Christchurch baptisms but the name Meldrum did not appear anywhere. Depending upon where they lived the baptisms could be at Wallsend or even Earsdon. They might also have been non-conformist.
I’m at the archives most weeks so if you can think of where else they might be I’d be happy to look again
Christine
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Thank you Christine but I am at a loss where to look. Don't think they were non conformist because Thomas remarried a Margaret Shepherd in 1813 in South Shields and the children from this marriage were baptized in St. Hilda's. Cannot find a marriage or death record for Ann. Thomas was lost at sea so no death record there either. For that matter no birth record either, he was known as Thomas Meldram junior and Meldram is not a common name unlike Meldrum. Thank you again but will have to give up for now on these I think.
Regards Linda
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Don't give up yet - ancestral hide and seek is the fun bit ;D
Let me see if I can locate them in nearby parishes.
Where did you get the children's names from - I'm assuming census but you didn't say.
Christine
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Have you considered whether the records you are missing might also be at St. Hilda’s? Quite a few of my North Shields ancestors hopped over the river to South Shields for baptisms and marriages. It was fairly easy for them in a maritime community.
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I wondered that too but if so then that's TWAS and I haven't been there for years. Never did like the walk up the hill from the station ;D
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I found the children's names as George and his wife Martha were witnesses at Elizabeth's wedding in 1832 (Peter Kay) so presuming they were brother and sister. Elizabeth remarried in 1846 (John Findlay) and says her father was Thomas Meldram, master mariner. Mary Meldram married a John Humble Nicholson in 1826 and named one of her children Thomas Meldram Nicholson. I haven't found George or Elizabeth on the census records. George because he was at sea (I have found his wife and family). Elizabeth I just can't find.
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I agree with c-side and Craclyn not to give up just because they are not found at Christ Church. I have Tyne Pilot ancestors in one family who moved about between Churches in Wallsend and South Shields, mainly St Peter and St Hilda.
There are volumes at the library in Newcastle giving the baptisms at St Hilda going back hundreds of years. The next time I can get there I will check around the birth time of George to see if I can spot him or some of his siblings.
I don't know exactly yet when I can next get to the archives but I am hoping to fit in a trip within the next couple of months to look up some creed registers for another RootsChatter. Of course, I would be happy to look in neighbouring parishes for you too but I think it is likely that Christine may be able to do this for you faster.
Give me a few weeks though and I will hopefully get to the Newcastle library at some point to look at the St Hilda's baptisms.
Christine if you can check on the North Shields side of the River Tyne before me next week I would recommend looking at the St Peter Church. In my experience seafarers (such as some of my own ancestors) seemed to live in that vicinity. Hopefully, between us we might find George for Linda. :)
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You may also need to consider the possibility that these children are not the children of Thomas M. They could be stepchildren. You have his name as father on Elizabeth’s marriage, but that could either be because he is her biological parent or jus the only Dad she ever knew.
George being a witness at her wedding could suggest he is her brother, but he could also be a cousin or other relative.
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Christine if you can check on the North Shields side of the River Tyne before me next week I would recommend looking at the St Peter Church. In my experience seafarers (such as some of my own ancestors) seemed to live in that vicinity.
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/NBL/Tynemouth/StPeter2
that page indicates St Peter was founded in 1860 so the baptisms for these children are too early to have been there.
Boo
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The St Peter I am referring to is the one at Wallsend. The baptisms at the Tyne and Wear Archives go back to 1669 I believe. I am not referring to the St Peter Church, you have mentioned Boo. ;D
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/NBL/Wallsend/ChurchRecords
Perhaps I confused things by writing the North Shields side of the river. I definitely mean the Wallsend Church not far from North Shields.
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aah, ok that makes sense then, I just assumed you were still referring to North Shields.
Boo
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No, I agree by my referring to the North Shields side of the river I probably confused things.
Some people might be interested to know that each year on Heritage Open Days this Church brings out the original registers and the Great War time parish newletters (in small volumes) for people to view. :)
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Is this anything to do with anything?
Newcastle Courant, 6 December 1828 (and various other papers)
Died
On the 22nd June, at Calcutta, of apoplexy, Captain Thomas Meldrum, of the ship John Craig, of this port, aged 35.
Buried 23 June in India. Age 36.
Not too young to be the husband of Margaret, but unlikely to have been married previously with several children.
Marriage of Thomas Meldram + Margaret Shepherd, 21 Dec 1813, St John Newcastle
BT does not give marital status
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-XXZ7-6WL?i=379&cc=1309819&cat=1809373
he was known as Thomas Meldram junior
Shields newspapers, 1 July 1858
Deaths
At No. 8, Newcastle Street, on the 29th ult., Margaret, relict of the late Captain Thomas Meldram, jun., aged 69.
In fact Margaret seems to have remarried to James Bilson at Tynemouth, 23.1.36
So her death is registered under that name.
June 1858 Tynemouth 10b 94
Bilson, Margaret
age 69
More background, George, the master mariner born 1810, married Martha Horsley at Earsdon, 22 Sep 1831
BT here, he is given as Meldam.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6S9W-ZQW?i=841&cc=1309819&cat=1808542
Looking at baptisms to George and Martha in the indexes, on some of them George has Gledson or Gledsom as a middle name (haven't looked at any images), on later ones Gladston, Gladstone.
George and his wife Martha were witnesses at Elizabeth's wedding in 1832 (Peter Kay)
By licence. The allegation here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6X87-2RL?i=241&cc=1675690
BT of marriage
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-67R7-7P1?i=591&cc=1309819&cat=1810087
To complicate things, there was a Thomas Meldrum who married Elizabeth Hunter in Newcastle in 1800. He was also a mariner, and they had quite a few children baptized in Newcastle.
Extra!
A burial in Tynemouth, 30 Oct 1806, of Jane Meldrum, of North Shields, age 6 months, daughter of Thos Meldrum, Mariner.
BT
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DZ7S-HZC?i=542&cc=1309819&cat=1810509
Unlikely to be a daughter of Thomas & Elizabeth in Newcastle, their daughter Jane was baptized in Newcastle in 1803.
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Thank you to all. Lots of very useful information.
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Just to rule out St Hilda. The volumes at the library for baptisms are from the 1600s to 1812. I can't see any relevant Baptisms in the time period.
There is a baptism there on FamilySearch for a James Shepherd Meldram on 4 May 1817.
Also a Margaret Shepherd Meldram 6 February 1822.
Wonderful info found by jon65! :)
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Thanks RTL !
Just a little bit more. I'm sure Linda knows it all, but it's nice to have a bit more of the story.
Margaret Meldram, nee Shepherd, remarried to James Bilson in early 1836, as mentioned. There were also one or two death announcements in the Shields papers in 1858 saying that she was the wife of James.
Of Newcastle Street.
Published a little while after the relict of Thomas Meldram junior announcement, curiously it now states that she died on the 1st inst (July) ??? Her death was registered in the June quarter :)
Anyway, it seems that James Bilson was a Baptist minister.
They were in Whitehaven, Cumberland, in 1841. And what must be her daughter Margaret (Mildram), 19, is with them, and also an elderly Catherine Shepherd.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M73V-XXN
1851 in Yorkshire, just James and Margaret
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SPMF-XDW
Now rewind back to 1837, and a death announcement in the Durham Chronicle of 12 May. They seem to have got James' name wrong!
At Jamaica, in the West Indies, and late of North Shields, on the 7th of March, Mr Thomas Meldram, chief mate of the ship London, and son-in-law to the Rev. James Bilsra, independent minister.
And from 1835 in the merchant seamen's records (BT 112) there is a T Meldram, 21, North Shields.
Names the London, and also says "Died at Jamaica 7th March 1837".
Thomas was baptized 18 January 1815, at South Shields. Parents Thomas + Margaret, father a Mariner.
BT here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-6SN3-Y3L?i=574&cc=1309819&cat=1810087
I kind of think that the Thomas who died in Calcutta in 1828 was Thomas junior, the husband of Margaret*. And it's Thomas senior who is the mystery man. Not forgetting his wife of course! One sighting of him in the parish registers may be that burial of young Jane in 1806, father Thomas, a Mariner. Again, no baptism for her.
*Has the parish register entry for their marriage been seen?
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Thank you to all for all the info. Some I did have but not the images. I have a copy of a poem printed by W Orange, printer, North Shields which was found in the British Columbia archives. A son of George and Martha emigrated to Canada. It says that Thomas Meldram was the captain of a ship "Friends" which was lost in 1833. Various paper reports say 31st Aug or 1 Sept somewhere between Newcastle and London. I am assuming this is the death of Thomas Meldram jun. Sometimes I think it would be nice if they named their children Ebenezer, may be easier to work out.
There is a marriage in London in 1792 that a lot of trees on Ancestry have accepted for a Thomas Meldrem and Ann Gladston but I am not convinced this is correct. It seems odd to me that they would go to London and be married by Banns. I am hoping that wherever they married they also baptised their children, just haven't been able to find it yet.
Regards Linda
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That is very interesting, Linda. George does have that Gladston name on some of the baptism records of his children.
Hadn't come across the loss of the Friends. I did see a story about a sparrow building a nest on the Friends, Capt. Meldrum, when it was in the Tyne in 1828!
What an intriguing mystery. Good luck with your search!
John
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Sadly we can also rule out baptisms at St. Peter, Wallsend. None of them were there. :-\
Christine
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A bit more for Linda ..
Tynemouth General Cemetery
Entry 3582
Buried July 1 1858
Place of burial: F60
Depth: 8 feet
Aged (69?) Years
Margaret wife of James Bilson Newcastle St parson of Tynemouth died (June?) 29 of Apoplexy
This is from a volume in North Shields local studies & the Sexton's burials on microfilm.
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Other Bilsons at same Cemetery are:
Alfred James 1835
Elizabeth Smith Bilson 1837
Mary 1835
Mary Jane 1837
Also Meldram:
Ann Meldram 1834
William Henry Meldram 1849
Also Meldrum:
Arthur S 1872
James 1860
If you think any of these might be relevant let me know and I will look up their full entries on microfilm.
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Just to add I have just checked the biographies file under the name of 'Meldram' at North Shields local studies. There seems to have been quite a few papers deposited for other researchers. It is almost hard to know where to start!! There are handwritten family trees, various notes, a very old photocopied article from the Northumberland Advertiser Sept 10 1838 - seems to relate a wreck off Boulogne. There is a photocopy of photo of a Victorian looking woman under name of 'Meldrum' sitting in a chair. There is also census info and correspondence from other descendants.
There is a reference recording that Thomas & Ann lived at Stephenson Street, Church Street and Queen Street.
One entry amongst the various notes records that at Preston Cemetery North Shields there is a monumental inscription for George Gladston, wife Martha their son George T, daughter in law Jane and Martha's sister Ann.
In the notes Martha was the daughter of John and Isabella Horsley. It records that Martha became the post mistresx at Percy Main in 1859 and still there in 1879. 'Copy of her carte de visite held' recorded - might that be her photo mentioned above I wonder.
George Gladston Meldram is mentioned in various references as the son of Thomas Meldram and Ann Gladston. He seems to have been a 'Captain'. Records he died at sea on 21 August 1854 whilst serving as Master of the ' Crown' of Kirkwall. Previously survived the loss of his ship 'Eliza'.
There are so many items to look at. I do think it might be useful for you to contact the local studies in North Shields library re your research! :). Scroll down for contact info:
https://my.northtyneside.gov.uk/category/1017/local-studies-and-information
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I have now looked up this burial at Tynemouth Cemetery as from information I have found in the file mentioned in above post I think this may be your 'Ann':
'Entry 91
Burial September 22 1834
Place of burial D91
Depth 6 feet
Age 61 years
Ann Meldram Widow of Thomas Meldram of Church Street North Shields Parish of Tynemouth Daughter of Mark & Ann Gladston Died Sept 21 of Cholera'
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I have now looked up this burial at Tynemouth Cemetery as from information I have found in the file mentioned in above post I think this may be your 'Ann'
Wow, River Tyne Lass, well done!
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Also ..
Entry 2107
Burial 14 October 1849
Place of burial C85
Depth 5 feet
Age 13 month
William Henry son of George & Martha Meldram of Charlotte Street North Shields in the Parish of Tynemouth Died October 11th of inflamation
Added: Thank you Jon! I have just seen your post after I posted. Those files at North Shields local studies can be most helpful with information pointing the way to more! :)
I like that the Tynemouth Cemetery gives cause of death too! :)
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A further note info in the files records that George & Martha had another son named William Henry who married a Margaret Ann Stafford at St John, Newcastle upon Tyne on 11 August 1873.
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Burial of Martha at Preston Cemetery, North Shields:
Entry 2240
Martha Meldram
Age 78 years
Widow
Place where death occurred: Percy Main
Date of burial 15 April 1891
Ceremony by W Bennett - Wesleyan Minister
Unconsecrated Grave 8420
Removed from township of Chirton
Unfortunately, this Cemetery's records give no cause of death or section number.
However, if you can get the cemetery office to give you the actual section number I would be willing to attempt to find the Gravestone for you at some point (if you don't live in or near the area) and take a photo and put this up on Find A Grave.
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Just to add the index boxes in the local studies have lots of references to newspaper references to the Meldrams too!
This is an example in the indexes from the Shields Daily News 30 January 1866:
'At Victoria, Vancouver Island on 14th Nov., wife of John H. Meldram, who left Howdon in May last year for the above place, was confined of a son on the passage. The Captain very kindly requested the boy's name, and it was granted. She is the daughter of Mr John Atkinson, shipwright of Howdon.'
another from the indexes collection:
Shields Daily News 16 July 1908
'MELDRAM, William died at Royal Alfred Institution, Belvedere, Kent on 10th, aged 89, William Meldram, master mariner, late of North Shields.'
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Another resource in the local studies is a large volume entitled 'Dictionary of Tyne Sailing Ships'. Meldrams appear in the indexes and in a number of entries about ship info. (Index page 816 shows Meldram entries)
Lots of info is given regarding the ships such as build, built by, owners, masters, events, what became of it etc.
Example a ship called 'John Craig'. Master of this starting 21.3.1826 was Thomas Meldram then James Harvey starting 27.6.1829. Later in 1832 some of her passengers from London to Tasmania developed cholera. She is recorded to continue the journey after the immigrants had died and the Newcastle Chronicle of 10 May 1833 recorded it had reached its destination.
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Just to add to the family history it looks like Rev James Bilson had a previous family ..
Entry 154
Mary Bilson
Buried April 20 1835
Burial place C97
Depth 4 feet
Age 36 years
Wife of Rev. James Bilson of Linskill Street North Shields Parish of Tynemouth
Died April 18 of Childbed
Entry 174
Alfred James Bilson
Buried May 19th 1835
Burial place C89
Depth 4 feet
Age 11 weeks
Son of James Bilson of Linskill Street North Shields Parish of Tynemouth
Died May 18th of (consumption?)
Entry 321
Elizabeth Smith Bilson
Buried January 21 1837
Burial place C121
Depth 4 feet
Age 3 1/2 years
Daughter of James Bilson of Church Street North Shields Parish of Tynemouth
Died January 19 of Small Pox
Entry 329
Mary Jane Bilson
Buried February 13 1837
Burial place C121
Depth 5 feet
Age 6 years
daughter of James Bilson of Church Street North Shields Parish of Tynemouth died February 10 of Mortification through (lung burst?)
Margaret Meldram & James Bilson were married by licence Twenty Third January (1836) at Christ Church. Entry 564.
Widower & Widow. Both signed. Witnesses names not clear .. first looks like Thomas + a female who signed with her mark.
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Thank you all so much for the info. I had the info for Martha and grave info for George but not his ship. Will definitely check out the link. There must be 2 Thomas Meldram's as if Ann died in 1834 Thomas couldn't have married Margaret Shepherd in 1813. Confusing as Thomas and Margaret also lived at Stephenson Street. I'm now thinking that Thomas and Ann had a son Thomas who married Margaret Shepherd.
Thanks again.
Regards Linda
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Just looking through the info and if Ann Gladstone was 61 at her death in 1834 she would have been born about 1773 so could not be the mother of Thomas Meldram who married Margaret Shepherd in 1813 as he would have to been born abt 1792 or sooner making Ann too young. I do have a picture of Martha Horsley Meldram gravestone thank you.
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Thomas Meldrem married Ann Gladston, 14 Sept 1792. When Ann would have been 19 or so.
Thomas junior could have been born soon after. Which would fit with the age on death/burial of the Thomas who died in Calcutta in 1828 (age 35/36).
Can't be certain of course that it is the right death, but I didn't see any more baptisms to Thomas and Margaret after son Robert at Tynemouth in 1826. Abode was Stephenson Street.
Ann Meldram Widow of Thomas Meldram of Church Street North Shields Parish of Tynemouth Daughter of Mark & Ann Gladston Died Sept 21 of Cholera'
Possibly Ann Gladstones, bap 24 June 1773, Tweedmouth, father Mark.
Image of BT here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DTBC-2?i=30&cc=1309819&cat=1820926
Possible marriage - Mark Gladstones + Ann Darnborough, 12 July 1767, Embleton
BT
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DZ5S-Z49?i=12&cc=1309819&cat=1808548
By licence. Allegation and bond are on FamilySearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-DHQQ-JY7?i=404&cc=1675690
I think the 1792 marriage in London is OK, it was at St George in the East. Plenty of mariners were about in that area, it may just have been convenient for Thomas an Ann to marry there at that particular time.
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Thank you all, it does make sense now.
Regards Linda
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Hi Linda,
There is this Meldram memorial inscription on a grave stone in Preston Cemetery, North Shields. I don't know if you might have this one. I have added photos on Find A Grave for you to see. Even if you are already aware of this it might be helpful to others who come across your thread who are researching the same family.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/207751871/george-gladstone-meldram
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/207751862/thomas-meldram
On this one below keeping clicking on the views that appear to see all his information which is currently held - enter John William Meldrum into the initial search box:
http://northumbriaworldwarone.co.uk/northumbria-ww1-project-database/
'IN AFFECTIONATE REMEMBRANCE
THOMAS MELDRAM
DIED MARCH 26TH 1895. AGED 49 YEARS.
MARY JANE
WIFE OF THE ABOVE
DIED NOV. 23RD 1914. AGED 70 YEARS
ALSO THEIR SONS
GEORGE GLADSTONE
ACCIDENTALLY DROWNED AT MARYPORT
JULY 1ST 1901 AGED 25 YEARS
JAMES HARLAND HUSBAND OF S. I. MELDRAM
DIED FEB 16TH 1912 AGED 30 YEARS
JOHN WILLIAM, KILLED IN ACTION
SEPT. 15TH 1916 AGED 30 YEARS
AND THEIR DAUGHTER
MARY JANE, WIFE OF L. S. COASTER
DIED SEPT. 29 1920 AGED 36 YEARS'
Here John William is recorded as Meldrum.
https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/805855/meldrum,-john-william/
Also this one:
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/207751881/george-gladstone_meldram-campbell
'IN
LOVING
MEMORY
OF
WILLIAM
DEARLY LOVED SON OF
GEORGE G.M. AND HANNAH CAMPBELL
OF PERCY MAIN
WHO WAS KILLED AT THE ALBERT EDWARD SPOUTS, NORTH SHIELDS ON AUGUST
24TH 1903 AGED 18 YEARS
ALSO OF
MARTHA ANN HORSLEY
SISTER OF THE ABOVE
WHO DIED APRIL 29TH 1897
AGED 3 YEARS
ALSO OF HANNAH CAMPBELL
MOTHER OF THE ABOVE
WHO DIED DECr 9TH 1915
AGED 56 YEARS
ALSO OF THE ABOVE
GEORGE GLADSTONE MELDRAM
CAMPBELL
WHO DIED OCT. 20TH 1922
AGED 62 YEARS
ALSO JOHN GEORGE SON OF THE ABOVE & FATHER OF DOROTHY BORN 8 JANUARY (1882?) DIED 5 FEB (1898?)
ALSO OF
DOROTHY CAMPBELL
BELOVED DAUGHTER OF
JOHN AND JANE CAMPBELL
AND GRAND-DAUGHTER OF THE ABOVE WHO DIED JAN. 27TH 1929
AGED 17 YEARS AND 10 MONTHS'
This website below shows that there are some Evening Chronicle death notices:
https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/NBL/DeathNotices/deaths_MCLI
If you notice any error above please let me know.
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Thank you for all your help. Not something I could have done from Australia so really appreciate your hard work
Regards Linda
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Hi Linda,
It has been a while since any activity on this thread but look what I discovered this morning under a tree when I was out walking at Preston Cemetery! ...
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/211566588/thomas-meldram
'Sacred
to the memory of
JAMES SHEPHERD,
of North Shields, Ship Owner
Who died Octr 7th 1834
AGED 70 YEARS
CATHERINE, Wife of the above,
Died at Whitehaven. Feby 1st 1842
AGED 82 YEARS
CAPtn Thomas Meldram
Son-in-law of the above
Died at Calcutta, 1828
Aged 36 YEARS
MARGARET, Wife of the above
Died June 29th 1858
Aged 66 YEARS
ROBERT, Son of the above,
Died at Jamaica, Jany 20th 1858,
AGED 34 YEARS'
It doesn't matter if you already know about this grave stone and may already have a photo, I thought I would tell you about this find just in case you may not be aware of it.. I have added this to Find A Grave too for anyone who may be researching the same ancestors.
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River Tyne Lass
Thank you for this info, its all coming together now.
Regards Linda