RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: brussells1 on Thursday 05 March 20 00:46 GMT (UK)
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Hello - I am trying to locate any records which record the parents of a Thomas Stephenson Muir who died in Winona Minnesota October 1886. Born in Glasgow in 1818. Married a Mary Mitchell on 23 March 1848 and emigrated to the US July 1849. The problem is he is being added as a child to my 3rd times Great Grandmother and Grandfather Catherine Spence and John Muir. I have advised the user that they did have a child Thomas Muir in 1818 but he lived and died in Scotland I have his marriage certificate stating his parents and his death certificate. She says that she obtained the information from Ancestry Trees but I advised without confirmed sources its very unlikely that Catherine would have given birth to 2 sons both called Thomas in different places of Scotland in the same year. i am trying to help her find the correct parents. I did a quick bit of research and found a Mary Mitchell marrying a Thomas Stevenson on 20 March 1849 not 1848 but unfortunately prior to 1855 there were no official records required so this could be coincidental. I suspect he may have changed his name when he emigrated. Sometimes people changed their names so that they could not be traced if they had been in a bit of trouble. I found one census in 1870 recorded as Thomas Muir, no middle name he was a Cooper by trade. I am assuming that his parents would be recorded on a naturalisation record or his death certificate but I couldn't find either record on Family Search. Can anyone assist please? Many thanks
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Your’s:
MUIR THOMAS parents JOHN MUIR/CATHARINE SPENCE FR262 (FR262) 27/06/1818 660/ 20 36 Wiston and Roberton.
I do not see a marriage between a Thomas Muir and Mary Mitchell, either.
Jamjar
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Background on the US couple: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/88157135/george-c-muir
“Positive in her convictions, and like a true representative of the Scottish race”
Maybe if it is the case, maybe she followed the naming pattern for the children, who were:
Archibald
Anna J
Jessie Elizabeth
Alexander M
William John
George C
So, folks of Thomas should be Archibald and Jessie, Mary’s Anna and Alexander. Odd, no Thomas or Mary.
Knowing the middle names of the above may be useful.
Jamjar
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hello Jamjar - Thank you for your comments but the Thomas Muir you advise parents as Catherine and John is my relative born and died in Scotland his wife was Agnes Cuthbert married in 1861 however the user I refer to has another Thomas Stephenson Muir which she is adding to my tree who was born in Glasgow and not Wiston. I know he is not the child of Catherine or John for a number of reasons this is why I am trying to locate any US documents that would show his parentage to help the user. Does anyone have access to a death certificate or naturalisation record or any other documentation to assist please. I can see one US Census in 1870 where he is listed as a Cooper with his wife Mary. If he married in Scotland before 1855 its likely there is no record of the marriage in Scotland. kind regards
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Naturalization records for that time frame would not included parents names. Statewide registration started for births started in 1900 and deaths in 1908. General compliance by 1915.
The best option might be if you could locate an obituary in newspapers of 1886, provided his family knew those details.
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Winona_County,_Minnesota_Genealogy
Sandra
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Possible - Thomas, Mary with Archibald appear on the 1850 Milwaukee Ward 2, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
Birth year would be 1825 but not unusual for those to be incorrect.
Thomas Muir 25 Mary Muir 20
Archibald Muir 0
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M4DK-TVZ
Would the first born son - Archibald be a small clue as to the father of Thomas ??? Perhaps a long shot but you never know with naming patterns.
Sandra
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I am sure many of us have found errors in other trees on Ancestry and sadly there will always be people who just blindly copy things without checking before adding it to their tree. Personally I have stopped pointing errors out because you rarely get a response even though I have offered to prove it.
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Background info - Same family 1855 and 1860 census New Berlin, Waukesha, Wisconsin. ??? Born 1822 Scotland.
Thomas Mine 38 Mary Mine 28
Archiabald Mine 10 Ann Mine 8 Jennette Mine 6
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-D83S-HF7?i=57&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AMMM5-NQH
Names match the 1870 census Pewaukee, Waukesha, Wisconsin.
and 1880 census Winona, Minnesota.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZ91-4YW
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MNS6-DFF
Sorry these were added previously................. :-\
FIND A GRAVE with bio/obit
Mary Mitchell Muir - 1832 - 1900
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/88138290/mary-muir
Thomas Stephenson Muir 1818 - 1886
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/88112717/thomas-stephenson-muir
Sandra
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No date on this record - U.S. and International Marriage Records, 1560-1900 - Thomas Muir - 1818
Spouse Name: Mary Mitchell - Spouse Birth Year 1832
Marriage State of WI
New York Passenger list shows them both on the Barque Mary Morris - 24 July 1849 - Thomas born 1825 - Mary 20 years-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:27P4-M25
Sandra
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I did a quick bit of research and found a Mary Mitchell marrying a Thomas Stevenson on 20 March 1849 not 1848 but unfortunately prior to 1855 there were no official records required so this could be coincidental.
Was that man a cooper by trade? It might help id him as the man in America.
And I totally agree with this thought:
I am sure many of us have found errors in other trees on Ancestry and sadly there will always be people who just blindly copy things without checking before adding it to their tree. Personally I have stopped pointing errors out because you rarely get a response even though I have offered to prove it.
I keep my tree on my computer and on my own website, but nowhere that other people can edit it.
It's just not worth the trouble trying to fix other people's mistakes all the time.
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Mary M Muir appears on the Minnesota Obituary Index - didn't see anything for Thomas.
https://www.ironrangeresearchcenter.org/details/8/96020/
Sandra
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Minnesota Wills and Probate.........
Sandra
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Didn't see an obit for Thomas Muir. I check the Winona papers for the 4 days after his death 17 Oct 1886, thinking the OCR software search might have missed him if his name was fuzzy or the paper was in poor condition, but didn't see anything. The paper was only 4 pages back then.
Did see his wife Mary's obit in 1900 (same as one posted on Find A Grave).
His name and son Archie are mentioned in some articles prior to 1886.
There is a very complete database of the Winona newspapers that is available online for free.
https://digital.olivesoftware.com/Olive/APA/Winona/#panel=home
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Thank you Sandra for all of the information, I will pass this on. I did respond to the user yesterday and suggested an Archibald Muir and a Janet Stephenson were noted as parents for a Thomas Muir in 1822 and suggested she follow this route but there was no guarantee it was correct. The problem is she keep adding it to the Family Search Tree and i have removed it a couple of times. She just needed a bit of help and I have tried to give her some clues with regard to the christian names of his children following a family route. Apparently she is very new to researching and I couldnt help any further with UK records and thought US records may provide a clue. Thank you again for your recommendations.
kind regards.
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Thank you for your response RJ137 - I have forwarded the information to the user. The obituary of Mary Mitchell gives her date of birth and area in Scotland that she lived. Thank you again.
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Thank you oldohiohome.
kind regards