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General => The Stay Safe Board => Topic started by: Erato on Thursday 12 March 20 16:35 GMT (UK)
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Uh oh, a coronavirus state of emergency has been declared in Ecuador. The mayor of Quito expanded upon it with various decrees among which: old people have to stay in their homes. According to my neighborhood informant, the police have been ordered to pick up any elderly person seen out in the street and return him/her home.
I have a number of errands that must be done today. I just accomplished the first one without incident right under the noses of several police officers. Fortunately, I don't have gray hair so from a distance I can pass as younger. When I saw a cop, I just looked down and assumed a jaunty, youthful step. It worked. I hope I can do the same this afternoon. This is going to be a hassle, though.
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At what age are they declaring people old, Erato?
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Well, as I understand it, the house arrest applies to "personas de la tercera edad," which is to say 65+. The information available online makes it sound more like a recommendation than a regulation and I saw nothing about police action to round up stray senior citizens. I did see other oldsters out and about this morning including foreign tourists. If the cops nab me this afternoon I will put on a bewildered foreigner act and let them escort me home.
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Not a good idea to look away/down when you see a police officer - it draws attention to you. Either look at him/her or look straight ahead and walk normally.
:)
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Actually, I'm the kind of person who normally looks down while walking because I'm always looking for stuff on the ground - plants, animals and whatnot. At any rate, I was not apprehended this afternoon, either, and there seemed to be quite a few seniors out and about boldly defying the mayor. I'll stay in for the next few days because I already got well stocked up with food.
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I think people are stocking up because the government is saying that it is trying through its method to flatten the peak of the infection and change it into a much lower "bump", thus allowing the NHS to deal with the number of cases more gradually. This would, however, mean that the pandemic would last longer, and we might all be cutting our newspaper into little squares and hangng them on a string.
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This would, however, mean that the pandemic would last longer, and we might all be cutting our newspaper into little squares and hangng them on a string.
What would we blow our noses on though? :)
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Whatever happened to handkerchiefs?
The sort that you had to boil wash!
Romilly ;D
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Whatever happened to handkerchiefs?
The sort that you had to boil wash!
Romilly ;D
I still have those, clean white and neatly folded so that I can offer one to mazi should the need arise.
I am now thinking that if I moisten them with TCP we could both mop our fevered brow and wipe our hands with them.
TCP cures everything. ;D ;D ;D
Mike
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But does it kill Viruses??
Romilly :-\
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But does it kill Viruses??
Romilly :-\
Probably not, but at least I have done something, which relaxes the brain which helps the body’s immune system to fight the virus.
Mike
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What happens if you don't buy newspapers - we don't, and we don't get free newspapers through the door anymore either. We're OK for loo rolls at the minute , but I have no idea where we'll get them from when we do run low!
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But does it kill Viruses??
Romilly :-\
No, but the smell of it makes people keep their distance. ;D
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What happens if you don't buy newspapers - we don't, and we don't get free newspapers through the door anymore either. We're OK for loo rolls at the minute , but I have no idea where we'll get them from when we do run low!
Quick, nip out to the newsagent and get a daily paper ordered pronto! You really don’t want to get caught out .
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What happens if you don't buy newspapers - we don't, and we don't get free newspapers through the door anymore either. We're OK for loo rolls at the minute , but I have no idea where we'll get them from when we do run low!
Quick, nip out to the newsagent and get a daily paper ordered pronto! You really don’t want to get caught out .
Good time to be a plumber, there are going to be a lot of blocked toilets if everyone resorts to newspapers.
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No point going out to panic buy here, there’s nothing left to buy. Local supermarket had no pasta, no rice, no sauces, no frozen veg, ::) everyone’s gone crackers. As for loo rolls, you may as well search for hens teeth. :(
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Apparantly, sales of chest freezers have rocketed... More stockpiling:-(
Which begs the question, - what's going to happen if there are powercuts, - because so many workers in the utilities are off sick??
Just checked, - I've still got some candles in the cupboard!
Romilly :-\
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My local supermarket this morning had been emptied of tins of tomatoes and packets of paracetamol but did have loo rolls.
My sister's supermarket (6 miles away) had plenty of tomatoes but no loo rolls!
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Not sure I'd fancy Hen's teeth as an alternative to 'loo paper!!
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No loo paper locally this morning and I heard that the nearby 'orange' supermarket had no pet food on the shelves yet more to worry about!
Look out for local free advertising papers which in our area are stacked outside shops, ours comes out on a Friday so we usually pick up a handful primarily to light the woodburner but may need to use elsewhere!
Linda
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Our local supermarket had loads of pasta and rice last weekend. Then came the report on TV & in the papers that people were stockpiling them and supermarkets were running out. Guess what ran out today in our supermarket? Are people crazy? If they had listened carefully to reports at the beginning of this 'crisis', reports were that supermarkets had plenty of stock in their warehouses as THEY had been stockpiling for...the dreaded Brexit!! The main problem now is that people are buying everything they can and the supermarkets are struggling to get the stock from the warehouses, that's all. One woman was complaining that she wanted to make spaghetti Bolognese tonight but there was no spaghetti. I pointed out that there were several packs of penne and fusilli but she said she "didn't know how to cook them"... ??? ??? (I notice she did have 4 jars of sauce in her cart though, so I don't think much 'cooking' goes on in her house!)
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Our local supermarket had loads of pasta and rice last weekend. Then came the report on TV & in the papers that people were stockpiling them and supermarkets were running out. Guess what ran out today in our supermarket? Are people crazy? If they had listened carefully to reports at the beginning of this 'crisis', reports were that supermarkets had plenty of stock in their warehouses as THEY had been stockpiling for...the dreaded Brexit!! The main problem now is that people are buying everything they can and the supermarkets are struggling to get the stock from the warehouses, that's all. One woman was complaining that she wanted to make spaghetti Bolognese tonight but there was no spaghetti. I pointed out that there were several packs of penne and fusilli but she said she "didn't know how to cook them"... ??? ??? (I notice she did have 4 jars of sauce in her cart though, so I don't think much 'cooking' goes on in her house!)
Love it ;D ;D ;D
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Whatever happened to handkerchiefs?
I've got loads, which I use & also have some large ones of my father's which are frequently used - he died in 1992 but always insisted on 'Pyramid' hankies; they certainly have lasted.
One woman was complaining that she wanted to make spaghetti Bolognese tonight but there was no spaghetti. I pointed out that there were several packs of penne and fusilli but she said she "didn't know how to cook them"... ??? ??? (I notice she did have 4 jars of sauce in her cart though, so I don't think much 'cooking' goes on in her house!)
;D ;D ;D
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Hand sanitizer and hand wash were out of stock a couple of weeks ago. There is, however, on a lower shelf a selection of soap! Do people know how to use it? I don't know, because even on the films showing people how to wash their hands they use liquid soap out of a dispenser! (I was taught at a very young age how to wash my hands.) I can still remember the smell of carbolic soap at school and also at my grandmother's!
FS
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I read somewhere that if you use solid soap you shouldn't share it. However, surely the same applies to a dispenser, you touch the top before you wash your hands. My problem is that if I wash my hands for 20 seconds under running water in the sink in the bathroom, the water gets too hot. I have to do it in the kitchen where I have a mixer tap.
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It's pretty crazy over here too. My friend went to 5 places to get some toilet paper but found none (her regular shop, not to stock up). Our supermarkets weren't limiting quantities, so you can imagine the insanity!
I have rice / pasta / bog roll on hand, but might be looking for some canned stuff, as I use it a lot for cooking. If I can't find cans, I'll take the raw kidney beans, black beans or lentils - just have to soak overnight and they're good to go.
Very funny story about the shopper who 'didn't know how to cook' other types of pasta! LOL Well, I have to pick up a few things on Monday, so I'll see how it goes...
Our PM's wife has the virus, so they are both in quarantine...
All the best to every country dealing with this.
Regards
Ms_C
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My go to cookery book in times of crisis is, 'The Bean Book' by Rose Elliot.
Lots of dried bean recipes, - but you can use tins too.
It never fails!
Romilly :D
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I still use handkerchiefs, though I go to "balm" tissues if I have a cold! Also never stopped using block soap. I have the opposite problem to groom over hand washing. My basin is so far from the boiler that I would have to keep running off a couple of gallons to get hot water.
Someone mentioned learning to wash hands at a young age - I think I was taught at my village primary school.
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I went to Chemist today, they only offered me Anadin so I threw them back on the counter and told them "No, Thanks"
They asked me Why?
I asked them if they had ever seen the Anadin Avert Slogan "Nothing works better than Anadin"
They weren't going to fool me!!
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FS
"I can still remember the smell of carbolic soap at school and also at my grandmother's!"
Carbolic? Do you mean "(Wrights) Coal Tar Soap Bars"?
:-) Still got a bar! Hole drilled thru bar. length of string, thru. Tied to shower head.
Great for washing your hair, and getting the Bear Grease off your hair.
Ray
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Wright's coal tar is still available. Yellow soap in a yellow box. I meant to buy some when I saw it, just to see if it has changed. (But, typically, I forgot!)
Carbolic was, if I remember, a deep red. I think the school bought them in big bars and cut them up into smaller pieces.
FS
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Yes, you're right Familysearch, - I remember that red carbolic soap! (Once smelt, - never forgotten:-)
Romilly ;D
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Mr Josey had red lumps of carbolic soap at charity boarding school; his farmer father commanded him bring some home every holiday as it removes tractor grease a treat ;)
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Washing up liquid mixed through Ariel washing powder. Now that cleans your hands.
Malky
Panic buying at Aldi this morning at 08:00 hrs. It's all starting to get a bit silly, or is it??
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Carbolic soap - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbolic_soap)(https://duckduckgo.com/assets/icons/favicons/wikipedia.white.3x.png) (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=carbolic%20soap+site:en.wikipedia.org&t=ffab&atb=v171-1)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbolic_soap (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbolic_soap)
Carbolic soap is a mildly antiseptic soap containing carbolic acid and/or cresylic acid, both of which are phenols derived from either coal tar or petroleum sources..
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Get Wright's Coal Tar soap online.
The Daily Mail has much to commend it as a toilet-roll substitute! ;D
Skoosh.
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I did my normal 2 week asda shop yesterday and was amazed at the lack of pasta - all shapes!
and most of the tins of baked beans/spaghetti had gone too. Customers trolleys were piled with kitchen roll presumably in lieu of toilet roll as there was none of that either. This is a huge asda too.
Oh well we're all in it together. It's comforting to know you can still chat safely online about concerns in communities such as this :)
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Has anyone tried to do an online grocery shop, I have just looked at one store and there are no available slots for 3 weeks :-\
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I'm clearing the greenhouse out today, - and shall be planting lots of seeds!
Romilly.
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I ordered online Thursday morning and my order was delivered Friday morning just after 9am. One or two items missing including loo roll ;D. Ordered just one frozen item and it had thawed when it was delivered. The shop sells lots of freezer food but I definitely won't be ordering anymore frozen food. On the whole I'm really pleased with my order as I don't usually shop online for food/household items.
I did look at the 'S' shop delivery slots and there were none available for ages.
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Supermarkets here have been restricting the numbers of essential items that each person can purchase for a couple of weeks. It has been reduced over the past week and I think it is now down to one pack of kitchen paper, toilet rolls, pasta, rice (depending on weight I think) ... I am not sure what is on the rest of the list.
I think this is fair and gives more people a chance to purchase items they need. I managed to buy a large packet of toilet paper last week which I shared between family members as I already had sufficient. Sadly, some people are taking advantage of this situation and selling it online, presumably at a profit.
News websites and social media are making it worse by whipping people up into a frenzy - today I even saw a stockpile shopping list for a family of four for two weeks which astoundingly included 8 kg of pasta and 5kg of rice and a kilo of sugar!
:o
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Skoosh
Around here Lloyds sell the soap bars.
There is also TGel shampoo ( T for Tar? )
R
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Pasta, rice and sugar - no wonder we are all overweight! (Though I don't eat any of those and I am still a bit overweight. ::)) I suppose if your household includes two teenage boys you might need all that.
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@ Ray, no doubt they sell them here also but might be thought as panic buying! ;D
The soap smells like Laphroaig so pretty scrubbed up lately.
Skoosh.
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Supermarkets here have been restricting the numbers of essential items that each person can purchase for a couple of weeks. It has been reduced over the past week and I think it is now down to one pack of kitchen paper, toilet rolls, pasta, rice (depending on weight I think) ... I am not sure what is on the rest of the list.
I think this is fair and gives more people a chance to purchase items they need. I managed to buy a large packet of toilet paper last week which I shared between family members as I already had sufficient. Sadly, some people are taking advantage of this situation and selling it online, presumably at a profit.
News websites and social media are making it worse by whipping people up into a frenzy - today I even saw a stockpile shopping list for a family of four for two weeks which astoundingly included 8 kg of pasta and 5kg of rice and a kilo of sugar!
:o
I usually buy a 5kg bag of pasta. One adult and 2 children. It lasts a lot longer than 4 weeks usually. Although I may use more if I run out of fresh potatoes.
I have an absolute fear of being found to have no food in the house, long story how it started. For well over a year now I have been buying a couple of extra items with each weekly shop to build up a stock. Not to extreme couponing standards. I made a list of what I wanted in my store and worked down the list buying one of each to the point I could afford each week, and then back to top of list and so on. My kitchen cupboards are stocked from my store and the shopping replenishes that. I have a powercut kit too, have done for some time due to the number of power cuts we get.
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There's a certain individual on Facebook selling individual sheets of loo roll at £10:00 a pop. What a cheek :D :D :D
Malky
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News websites and social media are making it worse by whipping people up into a frenzy...
Completely agree. The BBC news website has just uncritically republished someone's tweet claiming 'Ridiculous scenes' in the Tesco at Colney Hatch*.
The picture they have posted showing this 'riot' simply shows what you'd see in any 24-hour Tesco while the staff restock the shelves - boxes of stock on the floor waiting to be opened and put on the shelf. You can even see the metal "cages" the staff use during the restocking process.
The uninformed people adding comments are getting confused and assuming the stuff on the floor has been thrown/dropped there by some kind of rioting mob.
The people attempting to point out the absolute normality of what can be seen in the picture are being ignored, or contradicted by others who obviously have never set foot inside a 24-hour Tesco during the night-shift.
[*The Tesco in question is just down the road from the infamous 'lunatic' asylum. Quite apt in some ways.]
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What concerns me with all this panic buying by those that can afford to 'stockpile' everyday essentials..... what about people who can only afford to buy a weeks worth of goods at a time, it's so very irresponsible and selfish to not think about others needs in a time such as this which is quite unprecedented.
The media, as usual, have a great deal to answer for whipping people into a frenzy despite being told by the government there is enough for everyone.
The supermarkets also need to take responsibility for not allowing people to buy trolley loads of toilet paper, tins, pasta, milk cartons making sure there is enough for all. They've put restrictions in when it's really to late now.
I feel very fortunate that I am able to make sure that we have sufficeient items we will require for the next few weeks without going mental. Being of a certain age where we could be required to stay at home we'll be fine.
Let's hope that everyone can cope and it may make people think about how and what they cook!
Keeping fingers crossed we can all get through this and come out the other side without too much suffering both in our personal lives and for businesses of any size being able to hang on.
Caroline
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What concerns me with all this panic buying by those that can afford to 'stockpile' everyday essentials..... what about people who can only afford to buy a weeks worth of goods at a time, it's so very irresponsible and selfish to not think about others needs in a time such as this which is quite unprecedented.
The media, as usual, have a great deal to answer for whipping people into a frenzy despite being told by the government there is enough for everyone.
The supermarkets also need to take responsibility for not allowing people to buy trolley loads of toilet paper, tins, pasta, milk cartons making sure there is enough for all. They've put restrictions in when it's really to late now.
I feel very fortunate that I am able to make sure that we have sufficeient items we will require for the next few weeks without going mental. Being of a certain age where we could be required to stay at home we'll be fine.
Let's hope that everyone can cope and it may make people think about how and what they cook!
Keeping fingers crossed we can all get through this and come out the other side without too much suffering both in our personal lives and for businesses of any size being able to hang on.
Caroline
Absolutely. I'm still stunned at the number of people who are buying massive amounts saying it's because they have nothing in the house. If they have enough money to buy that much why would not have a certain amount of a store at home
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HERD MENTALITY!
How apt, especially in this context!
I'm glad I just took the time to read this thread. I'd done my regular Tesco shop for next week but hadn't booked my delivery date. There is absolutely nothing available for next week - the best I could do was Monday 23. I suspect the delivery prices have gone up as well!
I haven't included toilet roll - I still haven't quite worked out what toilet roll has to do with the Corona Virus??? None of the lists of symptoms include the runs....
I'm sure people were much kinder to each other in the past - now it just seems that everyone is out for themselves and heaven help you if you get in their way!!
As for the media, unbelievable! Its wall to wall virus - if they'd just stick to that pair of experts who stand either side of Boris giving us sensible, scientific advice in a very reassuring way, I think that would have been sufficient but, no, they have to scare us half to death with their 'we're all doomed' approach in order to justify their 24 hour rolling news remit which basically comprises repeating everythng over and over again ad nauseam.
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I think that hearing parts of Spain has been put on a lockdown, (from the media report) and people cannot go outside, has a bit to do with panic buying. But then at the end of the newscast, they quietly state that individuals can go out for shopping or medicines. The catch 22 situation with that, is who is serving in the shops and chemists if movement restrictions apply unless for the 2 reasons stated. The media is the centre of confusion, again.
Malky
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As for the media, unbelievable! Its wall to wall virus - if they'd just stick to that pair of experts who stand either side of Boris giving us sensible, scientific advice in a very reassuring way, I think that would have been sufficient but, no, they have to scare us half to death with their 'we're all doomed' approach in order to justify their 24 hour rolling news remit which basically comprises repeating everythng over and over again ad nauseam.
This x1,000,000.
For all our faults this country (the UK) has systems in place to ensure people get stuff when they really need it. Local Government by law has to develop plans for civil emergencies, and we have armed forces who are well trained and organised to assist in times of need.
There are some elements of the media (including social media) that have become almost obsessed with criticising the government whatever they do, and that really isn't helping us right now.
Many of the important decisions and actions that need to be taken to deal with Covid will in any event be the responsibility of non-political civil servants and local government officers, as well as staff in the NHS and emergency services.
People need to be able to trust the government machine (the whole organisation, not just the politicians) because that is the best way to avoid panic and other undesirable outcomes.
There will be mistakes made, and after the worst is over people will need to be held accountable. But in the meantime it does none of us much good to have elements of the media and ill-informed commentators constantly seeking to undermine the government for political (or some other) motives.
My guess is that in the coming weeks the supermarkets will be getting help with additional staff and vehicles to make home deliveries. That isn't based on any inside info, it is just the logical response to deal with a situation where stocks of products are available, but the logistical operation to deliver them to people needs additional support. Luckily we have people and vehicles that could be put to good use in that way.
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If the thieving class will stoop to stealing from hospitals and, as I read in the paper today, toilet rolls from a church in Norfolk, then I must assume any food convoys will need guards to prevent the would-be Dick Turpin's from nicking the goods.
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Ooops - error.
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It's unbelievable, isn't it? Whatever would people be like if it was a really important shortage? Surprised riots haven't broken out, the way people are reacting. Seen empty shelves, hope people do make good use of all they purchase.
We did our normal weekly shop yesterday. Didn't need to buy loo rolls, etc. The only think I actually intended to buy and couldn't find was the handsoap I usually use - good old fashioned "Pears transparent". None there, so I simply picked up a tablet of - Wrights, coal tar!
I'd also rather like to know why the threat of coronavirus brings up such an urge for 'loo roll? I don't recall seeing diarrhoea being a symptom of the virus.
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I'd also rather like to know why the threat of coronavirus brings up such an urge for 'loo roll? I don't recall seeing diarrhoea being a symptom of the virus.
Could it be that someone misinterpreted the Australian predicament? Could it be the media - again :-\
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-51731422
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What's the 'Australian predicament'? Serious question as I wasn't aware we had a special one.
I live in a region where there are no reported cases of the virus so far. Despite that, when I was on a bus the other day and did a tiny cough after drinking some chilled water, the driver immediately stopped in the middle of a suburban street and demanded to know whether I was unwell. A surprising over-reaction as we'd just had a face-to-face discussion about my destination. I explained about the cold water and was allowed to remain aboard. For the remaining fifteen minutes of the journey I was treated to his ramblings on the theme of 'we're all going to get it'.
He's probably in the wrong job ::)
Carol
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-australia-51747892/coronavirus-in-australia-lorryload-of-toilet-paper-catches-fire
This might have added to the panic :-\ :-X
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- And that kind of silly over-reaction (the 'bus driver) is, sadly, bound to happen more often.
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He's probably in the wrong job ::)
...or in the wrong kind of bus.
Perhaps one of these would give him adequate protection from the infected masses-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AEC_Regent_III_RT
;D
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I don't think much of this panic buying, particularly toilet rolls, is people thinking that they are going to need them because of the virus. It is mostly to do with the 'self isolating' factor when they know they won't be able to get out to buy them so getting them in ready.
I have a very ill relative, in one of the extremely vulnerable groups, who is not very mobile anyway, so getting additional stocks in for them in case they can't get out at all, and in case I can't get out to stock them up, but it probably looks as if I am hoarding.
I feel like wearing a tag around my neck explaining.
Pheno
PS Why is hair colour disappearing off the shelves?
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Locally garlic has disappeared ! Are we expecting vampires :-\
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Flour is in scarce supply in the NE ::)
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Carol - this was as reported by BBC - once again things possibly taken out of context :-\ But panic appears to have set in in UK, and elsewhere :o
Not helped by this!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-australia-51747892/coronavirus-in-australia-lorryload-of-toilet-paper-catches-fire
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PS Why is hair colour disappearing off the shelves?
Possibly some social media rumour that it is a good substitute for some other item which is more essential? I've not checked though.
On one site someone was suggesting petrol as an alternative to hand sanitiser. NOT a very good idea if you want to avoid contact dermatitis and the possible need for a hospital visit.
If only people had more common sense. :-X
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More likely a rumour that hairdressers might be closed and a fear of roots showing ;D ;D
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"petrol as an alternative to hand sanitiser"
In the absence of hand sanitizer [a substance I have never, ever in my life used], I have dedicated a bottle of vodka to the purpose.
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Toothpaste has disappeared off our shelves in Berkshire 🤷♀️
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Blimey the Road Kill has gone missing and we just purchased 2 cases of Shiraz!!!
Don
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More likely a rumour that hairdressers might be closed and a fear of roots showing ;D ;D
I think that is a more likely reason. Also people are talking of doing their hair to combat boredom. Just think how much money just going grey will save me.
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I think garlic was another thing that has been mentioned as a preventative!
There are quite a few hoax items around - including some purporting to be from medical authorities.
FS
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"Alcohol-based hand sanitiser can disturb the natural pH and barrier of the skin, leaving skin vulnerable to allergens which can penetrate beneath the surface and trigger an autoimmune reaction" ...
Despite the questions - Don't drink alcohol hand sanitiser. "Problems include damage to internal organs, vision problems, memory loss and alcohol poisoning" etc. "Alcohol poisoning can even lead to death."
What about soap & hand hot water, I was taught as a boy we should always wash our hands at certain times, anyway.
Oh the media!
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Sky News a few secs ago - increased measures to quarantine the over 70s to be brought in soon ::)
I've got lots of books and stuff
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I have just heard that too on the news gadget.
At the moment we have plenty of food in the freezer etc so are not worried about that at the moment.
My O/H is concerned about walking our dog if we are confined to the house (both over 70) never mind us but he will go stir crazy. Well at least we have a garden.
It is becoming more and more concerning and contradictory at times. Suppose we will just have to adapt to our "new lives" in the interest of containing the virus.
Plenty of books too so will not get bored.
Dorrie
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We can also chat on here. Dorrie :)
(will we get our loo paper delivered? ;D )
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I'm glad we are keeping our sense of humour here and hopefully our sanity, some of the comments have really made me chuckle!
I think the toilet roll frenzy is for when we are under "house arrest" as I like to call it.
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I hadn't heard the over 70's bit, just ' the elderly' . So that means my husband will be quarantined but I won't ......that's going to be fun!!
Gadget I'd heard flour was in shortage in the north east but I'm not sure why it would be. A friend text me asking me to look out for tinned butter beans as he couldn't get any near to Newcastle. I couldn't find any either. No idea why not!
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My daughter works at Apple and found out yesterday that all Apple stores world wide (apart from China) are closing for two weeks.
I read that people’s phones are like petri dishes. My daughter hates handling them at any time, and this virus had made her quite concerned about going to work. She uses so many alcohol wipes to clean phones, and her hands after handing the phones, that the skin is peeling off her fingers.
Apple had introduced measures to distance people and security to limit the numbers of people in store, but that was fairly short lived as they (wisely) decided to close up shop for two weeks.
What happens after two weeks with any shops and schools which are closing, when the numbers with the virus are likely to be larger then, who knows .....
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(will we get our loo paper delivered? ;D )
Yes - 'junk mail'
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Of course we can chat on here - silly me forgot to mention that :-[
As for getting our loo paper delivered that will depend if they have any. Maybe we will get a substitute - Newspaper - ;D ;D That will keep us oldies occupied cutting it into squares and hanging it on string ;D ;D
Dorrie
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(will we get our loo paper delivered? ;D )
Yes - 'junk mail'
Meals on Wheels here are delivering toilet paper with the meals, which I think is a terrific idea.
So far, there are no restrictions here on “old people” going out. I hope they introduce that to keep my father indoors. ;)
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CF - try cannellini beans.
I'll have a look tomorrow for butter beans and let you know.
PS - just checked Waitrose - butter beans are available in 'your area'
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We can also chat on here. Dorrie :)
(will we get our loo paper delivered? ;D )
https://youtu.be/qdgSwshtRi8
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No butter beans down south either, I looked last week... thought it was just a blip.
I went to see my dad (91) earlier and he has already put himself in lockdown. He was joking that he isn’t going to be recycling his newspapers for a while ;D
On a more serious note, my cousin’s daughter is a paramedic trainee and had her first CV call out this week. They go to the address and lock themselves in the cab. The patient gets in the back with a specialised medic in the hazard suit. After delivering the patient to the designated cv hospital the ambulance then has to be cleansed, which takes 8 hours! That’s 8 hours out of service for the crew too. Silly girl then went round to see her nan, who is over 70 and poor immunity! Thankfully her nan stopped her coming straight in... put a dressing gown in the utility room and ordered her to put her uniform straight in the wash then shower before coming through to chat.
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Oh dear - hubbys akready climbing the walls with no live sport to watch... decided to do some decorating... meaning I had to clear the room so don't think he'll have time to get bored!
I've got plenty of knitting to do.... just got new Hilary Mantel book (800+pages) so I'll be fine too.
At least we can get in the garden too so really no change.
Enough food to last us a couple of weeks except fresh veg and milk.
Going to miss my two Yogalates Classes if I don't go but could do it at home instead.
Can still talk to my children via FaceTime will just miss the grandsons.
Guess I'll see what grey hair looks like if I can't get to the hairdressers...😱😱 or try home roots treatment!
Trying not to listen/read all the doom and gloom of BBC and watch other channels news.
Look forward to chatting more on here to cheer ourselves up!
My Waitrose on Thursday had run out of all sorts goods.
Keep safe everyone
Caroline
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According to Robert Peston on ITV, the quarantine of the over-70s could be in the order of four months :o
www.itv.com/news/2020-03-14/elderly-to-be-quarantined-for-four-months-in-wartime-style-mobilisation-to-combat-coronavirus/
Matt Hancock has an article in tomorrow’s Sunday Telegraph hinting at it, but doesn’t descend to detail.
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I feel so sorry for people who can not for example afford to buy more than their usual weekly shop, no extras for the store cupboard for them.
Those who can not afford a taxi to bring extra shopping home anyway and can’t carry much.
I am annoyed, I had a freezer choc a bloc full of home made ready meals and fish, meat ,bread,veges etc, but it failed and defrosted so everything chucked out.
Not even a quarter full as yet,.
I am lucky my son can take me shopping ,but he has been unwell recently so I have kept the shopping trips as short as possible,thinking,I don’t need that straight away, that can wait, etc.
I have been able to make a few trips unaccompanied ,and getting a taxi home, so not too bad.
Most worrying are the long waits at the crowded Eye Clinic, four and a half hours last time .
Back there on Thursday.
I think of the staff who are all lovely, so caring and patient and they stay so when things are running hours overdue.
I do wonder if this is going to be one if the greatest world changing things in our lifetime.Never mind climate change!
I am old, have had nearly 83 years, but children ,grand children and great grandson——-?
I hope everyone is safe and well.
Viktoria.
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According to Robert Peston on ITV, the quarantine of the over-70s could be in the order of four months :o
www.itv.com/news/2020-03-14/elderly-to-be-quarantined-for-four-months-in-wartime-style-mobilisation-to-combat-coronavirus/
Been discussing that with friends. As about 20% of the population is over 70, how could they enforce that? Vigilantes to make sure people didn't leave their homes?
Waitrose have no delivery slots for a fortnight, Tesco none for a week and apparently some sites are not accepting any new customers. So how would over 70s get food, especially if they didn't have a computer.
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I am hoping that the following means that I will still be allowed to visit my over-70 family members to deliver food & medicines and perhaps even provide some company, even if only by shouting from a few metres away in the garden?
The prime minister Boris Johnson and health secretary Matt Hancock are counting on neighbours and friends to rally round to make sure no one is neglected. "We are looking for a huge community effort," said a source.
Total isolation just isn’t doable, surely - it would kill as many as it would protect.
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They are living in a dream world. There are a lot of people, especially in large cities who don't know their neighbours. Many over 70s have friends of the same age, so that's not much good. Fine for those with families who live close, but what about the rest? Judging by the selfishness of people over panic shopping and bulk buying I can't see that happening. More deaths could be caused through starvation, loneliness and neglect than through the virus.
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Yes it is all very worrying. My family members would hate it but are lucky to have plenty of space (indoor & outdoor) and me as a willing and able helper within a couple of miles and a quick phone call away. Too many will not have those advantages.
In my community we are already considering how to support locals who are required to self-quarantine.
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I agree entirely with you Groom....we have no family living near us and live in a small village with no amenities at all!
Nearest shop is 3+ miles away so we need a car for where ever we go! Neighbours are same age or much older than us as our must of our friends... what should we do if we can't get out to shop for Four months 😱.... I hate to say it but is this over reaction / scaremongering ......
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It is possible that the Government has leaked the four-month idea so that when they actually impose, say, two months it doesn’t sound so bad.
But I do think those who would be affected by this need to take it seriously - it was referred to in more or less detail on BBC, ITV and Sky News tonight. It is more than just a rumour. Matt Hancock in the Sunday Telegraph lays the ground for unpalatable announcements to come.
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My O/H is concerned about walking our dog if we are confined to the house (both over 70) never mind us but he will go stir crazy. Well at least we have a garden.
I'm not aware that you can catch C-19 by breathing fresh air and saying "hello" to people in the street. ???
Light-bulb moment! The shortage of hair-dye in shops has likely been caused by oldies pretending to be younger so they won't be accosted when out and told to go home. It's a cunning plan. ;D
There might be an upsurge in the divorce rate among over-70s next year if they are confined too long.
Perhaps I shouldn't have eaten the contents of my "Brexit cupboard" (a shelf actually). 1st "Brexit cupboard would be a year old now and it was followed by 2 successors. I'm feeling nostalgic for the "Yellowhammer Report" and Brexit panic of 2019. A silver lining to Brxt - it's turned out to have been a dummy run for supermarkets &c.
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Gadget I'd heard flour was in shortage in the north east but I'm not sure why it would be.
For pies and bread? Reminiscent of the bakers' strike 1977.
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Whether it is true is anyone’s guess but I read a couple of weeks ago that in China, people were allowed out twice a week for shopping, so obviously shops selling food were allowed to open.
You would not expect the UK to be stricter than that, and how could it ever be enforced?
It may be that security at the door will limit the numbers of people allowed in the store at any one time, and they will need to stay x metres apart (similar to what Apple did prior to closing for two weeks). This is something I would like to see anyway, coronavirus or no coronavirus. :)
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I get as much as possible in the little shop in the next street. Sometimes I'm the only customer. I don't have to use a wire basket, I pick items and put them on the counter. I've paid by contactless card last two visits.
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Saw our daughter two days ago, and were commenting on the panic buying. She saw the pasta aisle was empty of the "normal" pasta, but the kidney bean, and chickpea pasta was still there ::)
That is the pasta she uses :D
Went to our local supermarket this morning for milk and fruit, no problems there, but the staff had a pallet of loo paper and tissues, and was getting mobbed :-X
We have no need to buy up loo paper, as we buy it on special, and have a few weeks in stock. What they are charging now I do not know, but I bet there are no specials at this time ;D
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I have a daughter who is in her twenties; she is seriously ill and is due for major surgery on the 26th March with pre-op assessment on the 18th. Currently I am trying to run her business for her as well as caring for her. Jan (Groom) is coming over to Wales next week to be with me to calm my panicking and to help look after my daughter and me during what is going to be a very stressful period.
Groom and I are both in our seventies; what happens if we are suddenly told to isolate? What will happen to my daughter? Will Jan be trapped in Wales? If we go out will men with sticks come and round us up? And why is it that people over 70 are being made targets in this way? The media are trying to call it 'shielding' but any enforced incarceration of an entire section of a nation is imprisonment. I have already noticed posts on social media implying it's the over 70s who are responsible for CV; whereas in the UK at any rate most early cases originated from those returning from skiing holidays in Northern Italy.
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Oh GS what a dilemma for you and so sorry to hear you're daughters still so unwell. I'm sure having Jan with you for moral support and help will cause you less anxiety but it's not easy for any of us oldies at the moment.
I'd love to see my two grandsons in the flesh but accept that it's going to be FaceTime only for the foreseeable future.
I'm afraid that social media has a great deal to answer for in terms of duff information and spreading of untruths to those that use it.... RC is the only form of social media I use and as it's sensible people on here it's fine!
Hope your daughter can have her op on 26th and it all goes to plan for you all.
Take care and make sure you're not out and about to be rounded up by men with sticks.... I'll look out for them next time I venture out!
Caroline
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The idea as I understand is to keep over-70s safe while the wave of virus washes over the rest of us. In terms of the practicalities I have more questions than answers at the moment. So sorry to hear about your circumstances GS, and I do hope that none of this gets in the way of your daughter’s surgery and recovery.
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GS I hope all goes well with your daughter's operation and that she makes a speedy recovery. That is wonderful that Groom is coming to stay for a bit to help and support you.
It sounds like your worst nightmare being ORDERED to remain in your home for 4 months. We have two older relatives who have no one else but us to support them one aged 80 and the other 91. Neither of them has the internet so online shopping is out of the question.
Will this apply to all over 70's - The Royal Family, House of Lords, House of Parliament and so on? If so our Country will come to an absolute standstill. Never mind the impact of the virus.
My O/H has just commented (on his way out to get some fresh veg and walk the dog) that the over 70's are the most sensible group around in his opinion.
Dorrie
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My daughter gets married in three months - am I to be barred from walking her down the aisle? I go to the gym three times a week and have a decent walk every day; house arrest would be injurious to my health and without doubt would have massively negative consequences for those in the targeted age group.
I am not a criminal and should not be treated as such. The Government should issue a clear statement that this ludicrous plan will not be implemented.
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Aboard his play-street bright touring lorry
The Pop Man’s goods were displayed
Corona was once a childhood treat
With favourites like lemon or cherryade
An early glass recycling advocate
His heavy bottle could be returned
The legend on the back of the label
Promised thruppence would be earned
Now Coronavirus engenders suspicion
Keeps us locked away in fear
Wanting minimum social interaction
Fellow man please don’t come near
Panic buying has gone viral
Hand hygiene has become intense
For a handshake may be a Judas kiss
Betraying your body’s defence
A stark juxtaposition between the present
And when a day was just a plaything
As I look through self isolation’s window
And wonder what the morning may bring…
Roger
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sonofthom - sorry to say, but Matt Hancock has confirmed this morning on Sky News that it will be implemented.They have not yet said when, or for how long, but he has said that the length of time required will be “very long”.
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Sorry to hear that your daughter is unwell Greensleeves during these already uncertain times.
Amusing and thoughtful poem Despair.
Just heard the news about isolation. Absolutely panicking now though I at least do have a husband to keep me sane! Surely if we are fit and well, as we both are, we could be excluded from this directive?
Judy
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Love the poem despair.
Looking more likely that you will ne under house arrest at the time of your daughter's wedding sonofthom.
Just seen a news item stating that baby Archie will be coming over from Canada to holiday with the Queen this summer. Different rules ?? Surely HM is in as much danger as the rest of us.
Dorrie
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I didn't watch him but I am not prepared to be cowed by despotism. Any such attempt to impose house arrest on all people in such a a large group would be fraught with difficulties, would cause immense problems and would be deeply injurious to that group. It would be complete madness of the Government to try to impose this.
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Judy I totally agree with you. Common sense should play a big part in it.
I am healthy too, thankfully but my sister who is only in her 60's has major health issues. As do close friends of ours.
Therefore will it mean that they can go out and about but we will be in lockdown?
Dorrie
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Matt Hancock is being interviewed by Andrew Marr (BBC1) now.
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So what happens if you live in a mixed age group household ?. Or one of you is over 70 and the other isn’t?
I know several older people who are already cutting shopping trips, social events and gatherings to a minimum. We know we are at greater risk and that the elderly will be at the back of the queue for medical assistance so most of us are not silly enough to put ourselves at unnecessary risk.
Or is this Boris Cunning plan to get rid of the House of Lords, their average age is 70 so most of them will be confined to barracks ;D ;D I’ll make a bet they’ll still get their allowances though.
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Confined to Barracks - perhaps they are going to re-invent the concentration camps :o The Brits have done it before - 2nd Boer War. :-X
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No balconies to sing from in my road...:-(
Romilly :-\
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I can't sing apparently according to my headmaster when I was at primary school!
Two of our Muslim neighbours have kindly offered to assist us during this period of uncertainty. They are delightful families and regularly bring us curries which are delicious.
Judy
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Just a thought but Hancock's remit will run only in England. However that may not be too reassuring for those of us in Scotland as the SNP Government usually try to go further than Westminster - could we be looking at 65 or even 60?
Measures being discussed by the Government will be wildly destructive to the economic and now also social fabric of the UK; very much a case of the medicine being far worse than the illness.
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I have read that the police will be given powers to detain those not self-isolating, - but where are they going to put these people??
Romilly :o
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Perhaps people will be detained in makeshift care homes (requisitioned hotels?) if they don’t comply with self-isolation?
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CF - try cannellini beans.
I'll have a look tomorrow for butter beans and let you know.
PS - just checked Waitrose - butter beans are available in 'your area'
Thanks Gadget. I've messaged my friend.
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So are we going to be forcibly confined
Entirely for our own good
Like “A cream cracker under the settee”
Wasn’t Thora Hird really good?
Will there be an OAP catcher
In the streets with net and noose
To intercept ageing miscreants
Out on the fast and loose?
Will age police patrol the internet
Based on the DWP database
(Naturally they won’t be allowed
A tete a tete face to face)?
What will be the punishment
If a pensioner non complies
No pension or social services
Withdrawal of vital supplies?
Will many be hauled to the prison hulks
Those monstrous petri dish liners
Where they will be left to stew
With the virus as fellow diners
Perhaps for the baby boomers
This is their equivalent blitz
A test of spirit and fortitude
In the age of Amazon and Netflix
Roger
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GS glad that you will have the excellent company of Groom soon. Hope your daughter improves and gets her operation as planned too.
We are a mixed age couple - husband is over 70, I'm younger. However we also care for our two under school age grandsons three days a week , while their mum is at work as a teacher. So we will still be needed to look after the boys . Yes we'll get a break in the Easter school holidays however long they end up being, but then it will be back to having them......its just a case of one day at at time really .
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I have read that the police will be given powers to detain those not self-isolating, - but where are they going to put these people??
Romilly :o
I have read that the police will be given powers to detain those not self-isolating, - but where are they going to put these people??
Romilly :o
Another alternative is to put us on a cruise ship, the seasick amongst us can have a river cruise.
It is a one way trip ;D ;D ;D
It’s about time our leaders had a sense of proportion, every day in the uk 1000 or so people die, an extra two or three is not going to make a lot of difference, and, before you say I am callous, at 79 I am a very high risk.
We should be looking to the future and taking an opportunity to give our children and grandchildren a chance to create a better world.
Mike
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Perhaps people will be detained in makeshift care homes (requisitioned hotels?) if they don’t comply with self-isolation?
That should be included above ;D
Mike
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Just a thought but Hancock's remit will run only in England. However that may not be too reassuring for those of us in Scotland as the SNP Government usually try to go further than Westminster - could we be looking at 65 or even 60?
Chief Medical Officer for Scotland was interviewed on "Broadcasting House" 9 a.m. Radio 4. I didn't hear whole interview. What I heard was:
1. There's scaremongering - she's not proposing shutting people in their homes for an extended period - it's impractical and is a risk to their general health & well-being.
2. People over 70 are to be advised to limit face-to-face social interaction depending on individual circumstances. CMO seems to be trusting each person over 70 to make sensible decisions based on what is in their best interests.
Just watched a live-stream video from my church for parishioners who are unable to attend the service in person.
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Well in the just over three years since I moved here the close neighbours have mostly been pretty good.
But the foul weather does keep people indoors,almost no washing being pegged on lines,gardening not done etc so some I have not seen for months.
But also I had my first eye attended to onJan 10th, second Feb 14 th.
So have been pretty quiet .
I am sure some would help in difficult circumstances, but it is going to be hard for them too.
One a teacher and OH a Chef, two very young children.
Another travels internationally for his job,wife at home with very young baby and toddler.
One,my next door neighbour 93, housebound.A very good daughter but I can and do help a bit, mostly a bit of company and a laugh.
All have their own problems to cope with.
I know my daughter will be worried to death being down in Suffolk,at a difficult time for any one running their own business,their loyal employees
with families etc are of prime consideration.
But I am O.K at the moment and send good wishes to those we know of on RootsChat with special problems,quite s few aren’t there .
Also anyone who will be badly affected.
I missed the Andrew Marr show.
I can’t see that quarantining the elderly will do very much good but it will do a great deal of harm in a different way.
To do that it needs to be started from the sure position that all old people have a good stock of basic essentials, and from a couple of my friends who have since died,and for whom I did some shopping I know full well that is not the case for all too many old people.
A couple of days after the usual shopping and they had nothing into make even a basic meal like beans on toast,not even toast sometimes.
Believe me ,their cupboards were bare.
They could not afford to stock up, it was week to week and come shopping day there was almost no food in at all.
I know our age makes us vulnerable,but so does isolation imposed without a safety net of sorts ,re contacts, food supply, general health, etc.
I get my many prescriptions delivered( so many they are too heavy to carry! ::)once a month, I need regular health checks and ongoing treatment for my eyes, do I and many others fail to turn up mid long term treatment
which will make much more serious the original conditions and cost the NH much more ,presuming irreversible damage does not occur.
It is mad , will elderly cancer patients undergoing treatment have to miss appointments ?And will it stop there ,will all patients young or old eventually be prevented from attending.
The Christie Hospital is so far from many people whom it serves, it is a day’s Journeying for very many.
No ambulances,but public transport ,so mixing with all ages when through treatment patients are already very vulnerable.
Don’t know the answer but can’t see quarantining the elderly as being anything more than a drop in the ocean and the treatment worse than the disease
I am off to the shop,if I get arrested you will know as I win’t be posting for the foreseeable future.
BUT, how am I supposed to know I am not allowed out. ? I missed the Andrew Marr show and nothing more about we oldies as yet on TV so I shall venture forth regardless .
If I get arrested I might even get a lift home in a Police car.
That will be nice !
Cheerio, good wishes to those with special concerns, and those who are ill or have relatives who are ill - many many kind thoughts are winging your way from the family of RootsChat.
Viktoria.
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It’s about time our leaders had a sense of proportion, every day in the uk 1000 or so people die, an extra two or three is not going to make a lot of difference, and, before you say I am callous, at 79 I am a very high risk.
I'm reluctant to spread fear, but on the other hand it isn't helping anyone if the idea goes round that this disease is nothing to worry about.
Based on widely reported figures the mortality rate from COVID-19 is about 1%.
None of us has any immunity to it, but if we are lucky then only around 70% or so will get it.
70% of the UK population is approximately 46.5 million people. If the population and the government did nothing and 1% of those people died then we are talking about the deaths of 465,000 people.
Given the rate of spread we've seen elsewhere (where governments have been working hard to contain it), the period of infection would be complete in something like two months or less.
465,000 people dying over a period of two months equates to somewhere around 7,600 deaths per day.
It isn't just an extra two or three per day they are talking about.
Hopefully it will turn out the mortality rate is much lower than 1% for the general population, what they don't yet know is how many people have been infected without showing any symptoms.
But even reducing the mortality rate from 1% down to 0.1% could still equate to deaths counted in hundreds per day rather than single digit numbers. That kind of rate is what is being seen in countries like Italy, and possibly Iran.
I'm just grateful we have scientists and health workers who are doing the very best they can to slow down the rate of infection and give as many people as possible the chance of living.
Please, listen to the official advice, err on the side of caution, don't get unduly alarmed, stay safe.
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It's not just the over 70s there talking about making self-isolate, but those under that age with pre-existing conditions.
That's likely to include myself as I'm on immune-suppressant drugs for the autoimmune condition Rheumatoid Arthritis. Mind you I'm also awaiting a total knee replacement op due beginning of next month which I think is likely to get cancelled although its at a specialist orthopaedic hospital.
Mind you I've only been into work four days since the end of September but that's because I can hardly walk. That said work are very happy for people to work from home 'cos of lack of parking spaces, it is actually official policy you are not supposed to park on site more than 4 days out of 5. Out of my three team colleagues, two others are high risk as one has Type 1 Diabetes and the other Asthma and High Blood Pressure. The latter has been working from home more days than in over recent weeks but the other has been onsite most days, he hates working from home. I suspect though after this week when he's on holiday even he may be working from home more.
Mind you I feel sorry for our team leader, he's due to go to Australia on holiday for two and a half weeks from 1 April and has been really looking forward to it. With their 14 day isolation policy just implemented that's obviously going to be cancelled. :-\
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Just had an e-mail from my daughter. Her ex-husband went to France for the weekend. She has been told that the children are not to visit him for the time being - he has flu-like symptoms and had them BEFORE he even went to France. :-X He is supposedly an educated man. :o
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It’s about time our leaders had a sense of proportion, every day in the uk 1000 or so people die, an extra two or three is not going to make a lot of difference, and, before you say I am callous, at 79 I am a very high risk.
I'm reluctant to spread fear, but on the other hand it isn't helping anyone if the idea goes round that this disease is nothing to worry about.
Based on widely reported figures the mortality rate from COVID-19 is about 1%.
None of us has any immunity to it, but if we are lucky then only around 70% or so will get it.
70% of the UK population is approximately 46.5 million people. If the population and the government did nothing and 1% of those people died then we are talking about the deaths of 465,000 people.
Given the rate of spread we've seen elsewhere (where governments have been working hard to contain it), the period of infection would be complete in something like two months or less.
465,000 people dying over a period of two months equates to somewhere around 7,600 deaths per day.
It isn't just an extra two or three per day they are talking about.
Hopefully it will turn out the mortality rate is much lower than 1% for the general population, what they don't yet know is how many people have been infected without showing any symptoms.
But even reducing the mortality rate from 1% down to 0.1% could still equate to deaths counted in hundreds per day rather than single digit numbers. That kind of rate is what is being seen in countries like Italy, and possibly Iran.
I'm just grateful we have scientists and health workers who are doing the very best they can to slow down the rate of infection and give as many people as possible the chance of living.
Please, listen to the official advice, err on the side of caution, don't get unduly alarmed, stay safe.
So 99% of the population may get a bit of a cold, for the other 1% it may be fatal, but many, many of those are terminally ill anyway, me possibly included.
The potential 450,000 deaths are possible, but most of them are not extra deaths, maybe just hastened a bit, rather than lingering on, for me personally that is a better option.
I think we must agree it differ on this, I want the best outcome for my grandchildren, not me.
Mike
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I didn't watch him but I am not prepared to be cowed by despotism. Any such attempt to impose house arrest on all people in such a a large group would be fraught with difficulties, would cause immense problems and would be deeply injurious to that group. It would be complete madness of the Government to try to impose this.
Personally I think it would be complete madness for people in the vulnerable groups not to self-isolate willingly and voluntarily.
Everybody should be thinking very carefully about what impact their actions could have on other people.
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The feeling I get, out and about during the last few days is half the people in the UK are in a state of panic and half couldn't care less. That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Martin
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The feeling I get, out and about during the last few days is half the people in the UK are in a state of panic and half couldn't care less. That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
I think that is a spot-on assessment of the situation Martin.
We need a lot more people to move into a middle position asap.
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My husband is also in the vulnerable group. He has a pre-op MRI booked for Wednesday and his op to remove 3 liver tumours shortly after. I think the op will be pushed back as it entails 2-8 days in ICU and staying in hospital for around 15 days, all going well. We are hoping the MRI will show no growth since the last one 4 weeks ago, in which case his op will probably be postponed and he will have to have injections to keep everything stable.
Greensleeves, I totally understand your anxiety, I hope your daughter is able have her surgery as planned and you all get through this worrying time. Groom is a lovely friend to have ☺️
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China is relaxing their isolation rules a little today, their total isolation lasted 50 days. South Korea has also turned the corner on numbers on new cases but both are still a long way from saying the worse is over as there are many still in a critical condition.
Hopefully this will mean our own elderly isolation won’t be as long as 4 months.
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Hi,
Just a query if myself and husband are in isolation due to age what happens to our son in his 50s who goes out to work and lives with us?
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If your house is big enough you may be able to avoid close contact by being in separate rooms. Just agree to use the kitchen and bathroom at different times.
Would you be able to do that tup1?
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Hi thanks for your reply we will have to give some thought to that as our son is on different shifts.
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Hi,
Just a query if myself and husband are in isolation due to age what happens to our son in his 50s who goes out to work and lives with us?
The idea is to reduce the risk, if all three are out in the community then all three could be exposed together.
Also, a possibility that your Son might not catch it, nor bring it back on his hands with good hand washing.
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If you share a bathroom with someone in the house who is suspected of having the virus you are supposed to wash all surfaces prior to the next person using the room. Obviously do not share towels.
I am not sure how well it works or how thorough you can be but seeing people in hazmat suits disinfecting and cleaning everything that anyone with the virus may have come into contact with, makes you wonder if our efforts will be enough.
Presumably if a family member shares a kitchen, touching the kettle, plates, pots and pans will also mean it is necessary to clean them after a possibly infected person touches them? There has been mention of light switches and door handles, but there are a multitude of items we all touch ...
It will be difficult to get into the habit of doing this with everything in the house.
I wondered if someone who has the virus pats (or kisses) the dog, how long does that virus live on the dog's coat?
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On radio a little while ago,the virus hailed from bats eaten by wild animals The animals were trapped for their meat, they were killed in the open market and the flesh sold.
I will leave that with you!
Viktoria.
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Ruskie, "If you share a bathroom with someone in the house who is suspected of having the virus you are supposed to wash all surfaces prior to the next person using the room."
If it comes to that, I think we are all doomed.
I just think about how many things I touch each day that have been recently touched by somebody else, such as letters on the doormat, money, deliveries, tins of anything. Just think about the pack of cheese in the fridge, touched by a shelf-stacker, a till operator etc. You then touch it each day. Are we supposed to wash our hands to prepare our lunch, then wash hands before we eat it. My sister has teach her class to wash their hands on seven specific occasions each day, and her hands are raw.
Martin
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I work in a hospital and I'm washing my hands so frequently I'm surprised I have any left!!
They have now starting searching staff's bags as people are stealing cleaning supplies and masks ::)
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There's an interesting downloadable pdf "Report of the WHO- China Joint Mission on Coronavirus Disease 2019" which gives a lot of information.
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I can also forsee scams developing, ill-intentioned people calling on elderly households, pretending to be from some official source, going to shop for them .... money first, please!!!
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I just think about how many things I touch each day that have been recently touched by somebody else, such as letters on the doormat, money, deliveries, tins of anything. Just think about the pack of cheese in the fridge, touched by a shelf-stacker, a till operator etc. You then touch it each day. Are we supposed to wash our hands to prepare our lunch, then wash hands before we eat it. My sister has teach her class to wash their hands on seven specific occasions each day, and her hands are raw.
The one significant advantage we have over this virus is it isn't very robust and is vulnerable to basic chemicals most of us have at home already.
Most of the things you mention can be dealt with using simple techniques or minor changes to our normal routine. There were various things I was told about when swine flu was on the rampage and they probably apply just as much now.
E.g. letters - just open the envelope and tip/shake the contents out without touching them. Repeat with each item. Put the envelopes in the recycling bin, then wash your hands. Now you can handle the contents with a lower level of risk, even if the level of risk from the envelope was low in the first place (a matter of debate)
In relation to food it isn't just the shelf stacker and till operator who might have handled an item - if it has been on the shelf for a while it may well have been touched by several other customers, some of whom have very little understanding of basic hygiene.
I've already started doing two things. For stuff going in the fridge or freezer which is in sealed containers/packets I just give the outside of the container/packet a wipe over with anti-bacterial/viral spray before it goes in the fridge/freezer. If stuff is a bit 'cleaner' when it goes into the fridge then when you go to make the cheese sandwich you don't need to worry so much about how many people touched the packet in the shop.
The second thing is with dry stuff like tins and packets. I'm not immediately unpacking them and putting them away in cupboards the moment I get home. The new stuff is going in my spare room and will stay there until I need it. (I normally always have 2 or 3 week's worth of food - I was raised as a country boy ;) ) By the time I use those tins and packets it should be past the time that this virus is able to survive on those types of surface (3-5 days has been suggested).
It doesn't reduce the risk 100%, but this pandemic is all about numbers and percentages. Anything you can reasonably do to reduce risk to yourself and your family is worth considering.
As for money, as a child I was told to always wash my hands after handling money.... and contactless payment cards have now enabled an alternative strategy to be used if need be. :)
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I am reminded of the blazing hot summer of 1976 .
We were returning to live in Britain after twelve years in Belgium.
We were in the process of organising quarantine kennels got our dog.
Howeverva dog was released from quarantine after the statutory six months
only to bite someone the next day.
Tests proved the dog was rabid.It was destroyed.
So quarantine was going to be extended to nine months .
The panic from - would it be DEFRA at that time? - the wholesale slaughter of wild life,including birds which might fly down and peck someone in the eye!!!
Quarantine is costly and not all kennels ,if any ,allowed visits
The law as it already stood allowed kennels to destroy animals if they exhibited symptoms,without seeking consent as you had given that when you handed your animal,over.
The fuss re not allowing the animal to walk on shore but the kennel van drove on board ,the dog’s needs took over .
We decided we could not condemn our pet to nine months imprisonment and then possibly be destroyed without us there, no .
So we had her put to sleep ,at home with us.
But the point was the absolute ridiculous panic was risible.
Now Corona Virus is not rabies,much more serious and insidious, so we do have to heed warnings, but some of the instructions almost mean any sort of normal life will be impossible,as with a younger person inhabiting the same house, using the same facilities etc as people who are in the self isolating group.
Own towels well yes ,most people do that( ooh remember the communal roller towel on the back of the door? ,( my Mum finicky Ann would not entertain one))
Hand washing etc ,generally good hygiene, and a good measure of ordinary muck to help develop your immune system, only that had as yet not been invented.
Fresh air ,either walking to work, , doing shopping ,walking to school or the draught through the ill fitting windows and doors.
None of the above will cure the latest health scare , but I do wonder as we have used antibiotics irresponsibly , gone overboard with cleanliness and sophisticated products and has that lowered our resistance?
No,use shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted( there is another old saying) but hopefully we learn .
Just started to set up online shopping at Tesco ,as my son is not too well at
the moment and other two down South and no need to get them up here as yet.
Hope everyone is OK especially those with underlying health issues and special treatments to which they have to travel fair distances.
Kind regards to you all .
Viktoria.
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I can also forsee scams developing, ill-intentioned people calling on elderly households, pretending to be from some official source, going to shop for them .... money first, please!!!
A very good point.
Hopefully there will be very clear guidance and publicity on what to do if you need to stay at home and arrange food deliveries.
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Yes, but some of the desperately alarmed elderly could well be fooled by an official looking "ID" pass and that sort of thing.
Seriously, confining the elderly like that for such a period simply cannot work. Yet again someone near No 10 simply hasn't yet mastered joined-up thinking!
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I must confess I haven't been too concerned so far about the Coronavirus here in England. Thought that the news was going 'over the top' and causing a bit of a panic.
I have done on-line shopping from Sainsburys for years now -- but went on the website today and there are NO delivery slots available for the next 3 weeks (which is as far ahead as you can book). Their slots are from early morning until 11pm at night.
Hence my normal on line shopping has gone for a burton!
I went into town - fairly quiet -- wanted something from Boots. There was a notice on the town centre store that it was closed due to 'unforeseen circumstances'. I realise that maybe their tills were down or heating not working - but if it was something like that they would surely have put this on the notice. As it is why was our town centre Boots store closed?
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We will be needing vaccines ASAP, what a time to be leaving the EU.
Skoosh.
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None of the above will cure the latest health scare , but I do wonder as we have used antibiotics irresponsibly , gone overboard with cleanliness and sophisticated products and has that lowered our resistance?
Not in this case, but resistance to antibiotics is another fundamental health issue that needs to be tackled going forward.
The fundamental issue with COVID-19 (and future coronaviruses) is the way we have become a connected world with people being able to travel cheaply, freely and quickly all over the place.
Going forward we should expect restrictions to be placed on long-distance air travel, not just because of the environmental impact is has, but also because of its ability to spread illness around the globe in a matter of hours.
We've become vulnerable not through cleanliness, but through our ability to export a novel virus far faster than we are capable of dealing with it.
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My newspaper today was suggesting we all adopt the 'Blitz' mentality of our parents/grandparents. What a laugh! It just wouldn't happen today - most people are too self-centred and couldn't give a monkeys about anyone else. They'll probably just go onto social media to complain and to find something to feel insulted by. This is the closest I ever get to social media.
Another thing: have you noticed how, in the past couple of days, the '70 and above' age group thought to be in the most danger has now become '60 and above'? Watch the age range decrease as it progresses! Another thing: there can't be many people over 70 who don't have some kind of underlying condition, can there? And I resent to hell and back the way deaths are announced with that post script: he/she was over 70 and had an underlying condition. Oh, that's alright then - just another old codger we don't have to worry about/pay a pension to/give a free tv licence to etc etc etc
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I have done on-line shopping from Sainsburys for years now -- but went on the website today and there are NO delivery slots available for the next 3 weeks (which is as far ahead as you can book). Their slots are from early morning until 11pm at night.
Out of curiosity I looked at their website at 11 last night and there were no slots, I looked again just after midnight and Saturday 4th April had been added to the list but no available slots for that day.
Surely everyone can't have done their shopping and filled all of the slots for April 4th in my area in the space of 3 minutes or are S'sby not releasing them until they have more idea as to what is going on.
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That's a good point Rosie -- although for people registered with them, you would think we might be sent an email explaining current situation (I do realise and sympathise with how busy these organisations will be with queries though.)
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Seriously, confining the elderly like that for such a period simply cannot work. Yet again someone near No 10 simply hasn't yet mastered joined-up thinking!
What is the alternative?
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None of the above will cure the latest health scare , but I do wonder as we have used antibiotics irresponsibly , gone overboard with cleanliness and sophisticated products and has that lowered our resistance?
Not in this case, but resistance to antibiotics is another fundamental health issue that needs to be tackled going forward.
The fundamental issue with COVID-19 (and future coronaviruses) is the way we have become a connected world with people being able to travel cheaply, freely and quickly all over the place.
Going forward we should expect restrictions to be placed on long-distance air travel, not just because of the environmental impact is has, but also because of its ability to spread illness around the globe in a matter of hours.
With your comments above in mind the Spanish Flu in 1918 was classed as ' a global pandemic ' the travel in those days was certainly not the same as now and yet it spread world wide killing millions. So how did it spread worldwide?
I accept that it is easy to get all around the world today and in my opinion flights everywhere should have been grounded with only those needing to return back to their own countries flying then put into isolation for 14 days and all borders closed it might have contained the virus to more manageable levels.
Now we - the world - are faced with global recession, companies going out of business, jobs being lost, etc etc.when perhaps a little more cooperation between countries could have helped avoid these drastic measures.
Reading in The Sunday Times travel section today the editorial written on the first pages talks about companies offering holidays for next year so people won't cancel and claim on their insurances and keeping the money within those travel companies.
Then it's being said that many travel companies/airlines will go to the wall and when this is all over those that have survived will be increasing prices because there will be a huge demand and not enough options to choose from. I had steam coming out of my ears and am seriously thinking of writing to the paper to say how irresponsible I think they are at a time like this when families have lost their holidays to be seen to be profiteering from people's misery....
Sorry I feel quite strongly about this! Rant over now....
Caroline
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That's a good point Rosie -- although for people registered with them, you would think we might be sent an email explaining current situation (I do realise and sympathise with how busy these organisations will be with queries though.)
I think there are emails on the way out to customers already.
I got a generic one from the CEO of Sainsbury's earlier this afternoon asking me not to panic buy and reassuring me that additional stock is on its way.
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This assumption that the over 70's have an underlying condition is a bit wide of the mark. There are parts of the country where a man over 60 is a bit of a novelty & saves this government a fortune in pensions. Over 70's tend to be a bit savvy in the health stakes and want their moneys worth. Now, the WASPI women!!!
Skoosh.
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I had an e-mail from Sainsbury's this morning. Nothing from Waitrose although I'm registered with them as well.
Note that it is the Ides of March today (15th).
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I have not had an email from Sainsburys but do have a delivery booked. Just looked at W'rose and they have slots for March 26 onwards - all I need now is one of their discount vouchers ;D ;D
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Seriously, confining the elderly like that for such a period simply cannot work. Yet again someone near No 10 simply hasn't yet mastered joined-up thinking!
What is the alternative?
Allow people over 70 to decide for themselves. Advise them to stay indoors and avoid contact with others. If they decide not to, then make them aware that they may be refused medical treatment. I presume if the Government goes ahead with this they will also include people younger than 70 who are vulnerable - those recovering from serious illnesses or who have asthma? Has this really been thought out properly?
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I am worried about my father who is 93 and lives alone. I spoke to him today and he says he has a cold but not a temperature or cough so isn't too worried. He is very independent and I struggle to get him to accept any help or shopping as it is = worried. I am going to put my foot down and take stuff round to him whether he likes it or not.
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Looks like part of the idea is to stagger the virus in households. Like, when one recovers from a cold, another catches it.
Mark
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I have not had an email from Sainsburys but do have a delivery booked. Just looked at W'rose and they have slots for March 26 onwards - all I need now is one of their discount vouchers ;D ;D
Yes - No sign of them so far this month :(
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Allow people over 70 to decide for themselves. Advise them to stay indoors and avoid contact with others. If they decide not to, then make them aware that they may be refused medical treatment. I presume if the Government goes ahead with this they will also include people younger than 70 who are vulnerable - those recovering from serious illnesses or who have asthma? Has this really been thought out properly?
I agree this would be a sensible approach - but how do you implement the bit in bold?
If an ITU ward has one bed free and a 70 year old refusnik is brought in with acute respiratory distress do you apply the policy and tell them they cannot be treated (i.e. tell them they are very likely to die), or do you give them the bed?
And if they are given the bed, what do you do when the next patient through the door is a 30 year old single parent who followed the advice and did their best to self-isolate? Does the 70 year old now get turfed out?
Healthcare professionals are going to have to make some terrible and traumatic decisions in the coming months. All of us need to spare a thought for them.
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It's getting serious. There are no free peanuts on the bar in my local today!
Martin
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I have just had a phone call from my daughter and we have decided not to have any physical contact with her or her family for the time being. Playing safe really.
She has decided that the younger grandson who has Asthma will not be going to school again until at least after the Easter holidays. Evidently, a group of children in his year will be returning to school tomorrow after a trip to France. I think this is sensible. Both my daughter and her husband have underlying health conditions too.
Everyone, no matter what age must decide for themselves what is best for them and theirs. We are all between a rock and a hard place really.
Dorrie
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But HOW can it work??
Who is going to get in the shopping for all those elderly house-confined as it seems that the delivery services are oversubscribed, and not everyone has a younger relative or friend with the ability and time to manage shopping for them as well as their own chores? Is Dominic Cumming or another special adviser going to nip round with loo rolls, pasta and baked beans?
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May I helpfully ;D make a suggestion?
Should there be any Rootschatters who have had an Ancestry DNA test but not yet put their family tree on Ancestry and decide to self isolate in the coming weeks, now would be a good time to put that right?
Purely unselfish motives, of course!!! ::)
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I was thinking such time could be spent sorting out all those bits of paper with "vital" information on it that we all, of all ages, tend to accumulate in our researches.
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But HOW can it work??
Who is going to get in the shopping for all those elderly house-confined as it seems that the delivery services are oversubscribed, and not everyone has a younger relative or friend with the ability and time to manage shopping for them as well as their own chores? Is Dominic Cumming or another special adviser going to nip round with loo rolls, pasta and baked beans?
Oh how I agree with that, it’s a round trip of 20 miles to our nearest shop, and my neighbours don’t have a car.
Incidentally 400 people a day attend our local A&E, if they turn away the cut fingers and too much to drinks that will free up a few staff.
Mike
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But HOW can it work??
Who is going to get in the shopping for all those elderly house-confined as it seems that the delivery services are oversubscribed, and not everyone has a younger relative or friend with the ability and time to manage shopping for them as well as their own chores? Is Dominic Cumming or another special adviser going to nip round with loo rolls, pasta and baked beans?
Exactly :)
I've never done on-line shopping, and hopefully don't EVER intend to - I want to see what I'm buying and make my own decisions on which pack of meat, fish, etc. to purchase.
My only daughter lives 100 miles away, so no help there. My best friends are now both over 70. Neighbours - not sure, as we're not that close to any of them.
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You're right Mike A&E in hospitals are going to be devoid of people for fear of catching it so it should release more staff....
Like you Dorrie we've just FaceTimed our daughter in London and seen our grandsons via that... fortunately both daughter and hubby can work from home and have been for a week so glad they're not travelling on the tubes into town.
Sadly they've just lost their family ski trip to France as all resorts are closed but as she said at least they haven't had to wonder up till the last moment it's fine and dusted.
We agreed that if either of us run low on loo paper the other would buy some, if they can, and send it by courier!
Don't know who'd do our shopping for us as all neighbours older than us...
We live in smallvillage, I suppose we could all get together with online shopping and have a mammoth village delivery like we do with our heating oil!
Caroline
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Incidentally again, that figure of 400 a day is official, the hospital serves a population of approx 150 thousand, that means that more than half the population attend a&e every year.
I have been once in 79 years, and Mazi has never been, I don’t understand the world today.
Mike
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You're right Mike A&E in hospitals are going to be devoid of people for fear of catching it so it should release more staff....
Don't know who'd do our shopping for us as all neighbours older than us...
We live in smallvillage, I suppose we could all get together with online shopping and have a mammoth village delivery like we do with our heating oil!
Caroline
We could set up a shop in the village hall, push your sterile list thro’ the door and a box magically appears out beside the back door
Mike
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But HOW can it work??
Who is going to get in the shopping for all those elderly house-confined as it seems that the delivery services are oversubscribed, and not everyone has a younger relative or friend with the ability and time to manage shopping for them as well as their own chores? Is Dominic Cumming or another special adviser going to nip round with loo rolls, pasta and baked beans?
I'd suggest - but don't know as a fact - that a system will be put in place where people who don't have anybody to shop for them will be able to contact an organisation (perhaps the local council) to register and become eligible for organised deliveries of shopping.
Likewise for the 'who' - and again I don't know as a fact - I'd suggest that a combination of council employees, volunteers, armed forces etc would be used to do the deliveries.
If a whole range of businesses and services are going to be shut down for the duration it is unlikely there will be a shortage of people able to do the relatively simple task of collecting a box of shopping from a depot or supermarket and delivering it to someone's front door.
I no longer work for a local authority, but when I did that was exactly the kind of thing that was thought about and planned for on an ongoing basis.
Therefore the local authority workers and civil servants that have that kind of planning as their day job will hopefully be reassuring the likes of Dominic Cummings that all is well and there is no need for them to leave the safety of No10 to deliver loo rolls and baked beans.
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Kind of related:
A Query - I know roughly the American Constitution but not sure about this, so does anyone know the answer
Can a US president postpone a presidential election?
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I suspect the army will be diverted to these kind of things. I understand that those who left the armed forces within the last 12 months have been recalled.
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"Can a US president postpone a presidential election?"
No, not legally, not that legal means much of anything to the creature currently in the White House.
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I suspect the army will be diverted to these kind of things. I understand that those who left the armed forces within the last 12 months have been recalled.
I hear the British Army and Forces are going to be assisting etc.
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"Can a US president postpone a presidential election?"
No, not legally, not that legal means much of anything to the creature currently in the White House.
Could he get something through Congress under National Emergency legislation?
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I doubt it; not with Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House with a very angry Democratic majority to back her up. Pelosi is the person currently keeping things together in Washington.
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Good old Nancy :D
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"Good old Nancy."
You're not just whistling Dixie, as they say
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I suspect the army will be diverted to these kind of things. I understand that those who left the armed forces within the last 12 months have been recalled.
I was thinking this would be the obvious solution. We went through an ice -storm (no power for many thousands in January) back in 1999 and soldiers came around to make sure everyone was alright and helped out when needed.
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Well I have to say I am really sad that it seems OK to some people that elderly people who do not isolate themselves should be considered as not deserving of medical treatment.
Many people with illnesses and conditions are completely selfish ,none are refused.Many are self inflicted ,but no judgement is passed as they get the same excellent treatment as everyone else, only now the exception may be the elderly .
How many elderly people will be absolutely sure the symptoms The are experiencing are corona virus?They might easily ignore symptoms of other diseases which need treatment.
Why should people ,many of whom have not the means to stock up on more than a week’s essentials,could not carry much anyway and have no car be penalised because they need to eat.
It is scapegoat time it seems to me, and it is very sad.
Try telling that to a gang of inebriated yoofs outside one if the all too many bars in our town on any night as they monopolise the pavements and make passing a very unpleasant thing.
Then see them in A& E from the point of being staff there, or another patient.
I know who I would like to isolate.
It might well be for the over 70’s own good but some safeguards and a system need to be in place before such draconian measures are implemented.
It does seem like a punishment rather than a help.
Perhaps someone is hoping we will all fade away ,saving millions in pensions and health care.
We get more like China every every day,hope no one in authority reads about the Franco Prussian War.
There will be some very strange things on the menu then!
Leave our oldies alone!
Viktoria.
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Totally agree with you Viktoria. I would add that many people well over 70 are perfectly fit and healthy without the underlying conditions that would render them particularly at risk. Conversely there are a significant number of people under age 70 who will be at risk due to other medical issues. To in effect stigmatise a particular group and threaten their liberty purely on age grounds is appalling, ill considered behaviour on the part of this Government minister, who seems to be a crassly insensitive individual who is unable to work out that it is those who are particularly at risk due to underlying medical conditions who he should be addressing.
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Edinburgh airport to shut for three weeks.
Skoosh.
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Posh hand sanitizer in France:
Louis Vuitton owner LWMH has said its cosmetics unit would manufacture large quantities of hand disinfectant gel to help stave off a nationwide shortage across France as the coronavirus continues to spread.
In a statement the company said: “LVMH will use the production lines of its perfume and cosmetic brands ... to produce large quantities of hydroalcoholic gels from Monday.
“These gels will be delivered free of charge to the health authorities.”
From the Guardian blog.
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Totally agree with you Viktoria. I would add that many people well over 70 are perfectly fit and healthy without the underlying conditions that would render them particularly at risk.
I might be wrong, but my understanding of the published information is that being older is a risk in itself, separate to the risks resulting from having any underlying condition. At least one of the deaths so far has been an older person with no underlying health condition.
That is why the medical professionals involved in drawing up the plans are so concerned about the 70+ age group.
...there are a significant number of people under age 70 who will be at risk due to other medical issues.
Indeed.
To in effect stigmatise a particular group and threaten their liberty purely on age grounds is appalling, ill considered behaviour on the part of this Government minister, who seems to be a crassly insensitive individual who is unable to work out that it is those who are particularly at risk due to underlying medical conditions who he should be addressing.
The medical professionals who were speaking at the press conference last week were making it clear that people with underlying medical conditions were a big concern as being particularly at risk. I don't think they are having a problem working that out.
What they seem to be saying is that if you add together all the people who are particularly at risk and do the maths on how many of those could be affected at the same time, then the total is significantly greater than any organised health service could possibly cope with.
So if I've understood the strategy correctly then rather than threaten anyone's liberty the request (when it comes) is for people to be sensible and seek to delay the possibility of them getting seriously ill until such time as the NHS (re)gains the capacity to give them the best possible chance of survival. Personally I'd consider that to be a case of self-preservation, rather than having my liberty deprived.
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Well said, the voice of common sense
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I wonder if anyone will challenge a decision on the grounds of ageism? It is said that it is in the interests of those over 70, but I'm afraid I don't believe that. Are they also going to isolate all those who suffer from asthma or other lung diseases?
It is going to be hard to identify and help all those over 70 who will need help with shopping, how will they do it - door to door callers to check ages, electoral registers? I think this is a time when those living in villages will be much better off, as already they know who is elderly and are organising help. For those of us who live in large towns or cities, and who may not know our neighbours that well, it is going to be difficult.
Looking at how selfish people have been with shopping these past few weeks, how many are going to be willing to shop for a stranger? Maybe they will have to say no one under 70 can shop on line, that might make it slightly easier. At the moment, when I looked last night, there were no slots available for Waitrose for 2 weeks and none for Tesco for a week.
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Nick you seem to be downplaying what the Government is proposing by turning it into a "request". There is nothing wrong with a request for people to act sensibly; however the minister is talking about enforced house arrest for a prolonged period of four months. This, as recognised by the chief medical officer in Scotland, would not be acceptable and would in itself lead to health problems. Fresh air and exercise promote good health; enforced deprivation would be injurious to physical health and mental welfare. You seem to want to take what you regard as a vulnerable group and make them even more vulnerable.
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There has just been a post on my local community forum. People are offering to do shopping, collect prescriptions for those who may have to self isolate shortly and have no family nearby.
That is an amazing gesture and well done.
Dorrie
P.S. Sonofthom Spot on.
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It’s time to stop talking and do something :) :)
So I have already got peas and beans growing, today planted some potatoes in the greenhouse, and drawn up a list of essentials I cannot possibly do without
Tea bags, milk and sugar
Chocolate eclairs
Roast beef
Aunt b’s yorkshire
Have I forgotten anything?
Mike
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A nice bottle or two alcoholic or otherwise perhaps ;D ;D
Dorrie
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I wonder what is happening?
Three posts of mine today have not appeared.
Replies and so forth.
I am sure I touch the Post button.
Can’t find them anywhere.
Viktoria.
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I wonder what is happening?
Three posts of mine today have not appeared.
Replies and so forth.
I am sure I touch the Post button.
Can’t find them anywhere.
Viktoria.
If you get the red line saying there are new replies it seems you have to “preview” your post before you click on “post”.
A possibility
Mike
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Nick you seem to be downplaying what the Government is proposing by turning it into a "request". There is nothing wrong with a request for people to act sensibly; however the minister is talking about enforced house arrest for a prolonged period of four months. This, as recognised by the chief medical officer in Scotland, would not be acceptable and would in itself lead to health problems. Fresh air and exercise promote good health; enforced deprivation would be injurious to physical health and mental welfare. You seem to want to take what you regard as a vulnerable group and make them even more vulnerable.
I agree absolutely. I have been staying away from large gatherings (such as the toilet roll aisle in the local supermarket) but I am not under any circumstances prepared to be made a prisoner either in my home or in whatever concentration camp this shambolic government dreams up next. My daughter is awaiting major surgery, I am her carer and the one who takes her to hospital in times of emergency - it's impossible to get an ambulance to come quickly: I am told when I dial 999 I will have to wait up to an hour for a 'triage'.... We are about 30 miles from the hospital, and I have now had four panicky drives to the hospital through floods to get her emergency treatment in the last three weeks. I don't want to hear any 'holier than thou' opinions that I have a duty to self-isolate. I am sure all of us, when it comes to the crunch, would do what we have to do to look after our loved ones. And that also includes being present at their weddings, and other family gatherings, where I am sure we would all be taking the same sensible precautions that 69 year olds and under will hopefully also be adopting.
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Nick you seem to be downplaying what the Government is proposing by turning it into a "request". There is nothing wrong with a request for people to act sensibly; however the minister is talking about enforced house arrest for a prolonged period of four months.
I'm not sure what source you are using, but in the video attached to this BBC news story the words used are 'ask' and 'asking', and at no point is the word 'arrest' used.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873
To me the word 'asking' is broadly equivalent to 'request'. In any event I would expect the initial steps to be in the form of a 'request', since anything more draconian would (I believe) require specific legislation giving the Government the power of 'house arrest' over a large section of the population. I'm not convinced this is likely to happen, or (hopefully) be necessary.
This, as recognised by the chief medical officer in Scotland, would not be acceptable and would in itself lead to health problems. Fresh air and exercise promote good health; enforced deprivation would be injurious to physical health and mental welfare.
Totally agree. Which is why I think it unlikely that we would progress from a 'asking' to 'arrest' unless the situation became very dire. It is also - as mentioned in the video - why the government are seeking to delay this step for as long as possible, in recognition of the difficulties and social/health issues it will involve.
You seem to want to take what you regard as a vulnerable group and make them even more vulnerable.
Me? It is the advice of the Government's Chief Scientific and Medical Officers we are discussing.
I'm just suggesting that it isn't as completely outrageous as some on this thread are asserting. You only need to look at what is happening right now in Italy, Spain and France to see that the proposal isn't totally outside what other countries are doing, or will be doing quite soon.
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Thanks Mike ,never realised that.Viktoria
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You seem to want to take what you regard as a vulnerable group and make them even more vulnerable.
Me? It is the advice of the Government's Chief Scientific and Medical Officers we are discussing.
And this advice has been disputed by over 200 scientists in the UK, numerous British health professionals, as well as learned and experienced consultants and practitioners who have been dealing with the cv outbreaks elsewhere in the world. So I hardly think the 'advice' can be accepted as gold standard and not open to criticism.
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"For those of us who live in large towns ..."
Well, I live in a large city. Not only that, I'm a foreigner without any relatives here. But I have faith in my neighbors to give me a hand when needed. Indeed, two of the neighboring families have family farms in the countryside and have frequently brought me fresh farm produce in the past. And I know I can count on Elmer, the neighborhood nice guy, who is the municipal parking monitor. He will gladly do any local errands for me. I only wish that I had a huge stock of unread books on hand, but I don't. And I wish that I had stocked up with more dog food. The neighbors to the south are dog lovers, though [they have three], so I'll ask them to pick some up for me the next time they shop for their own dogs. I'm not looking forward to this but it will be survivable.
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Our local town has set up a Facebook page to help those who have to isolate for the next few months. Offering help and to feel less lonely during the long days.
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And this advice has been disputed by over 200 scientists in the UK, numerous British health professionals, as well as learned and experienced consultants and practitioners who have been dealing with the cv outbreaks elsewhere in the world. So I hardly think the 'advice' can be accepted as gold standard and not open to criticism.
But the complaint from the 200+ scientists would appear to be that the Government needs to apply more restrictive measures and to do so sooner.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51892402
We consider the social distancing measures taken as of today as insufficient, and we believe that additional and more restrictive measures should be taken immediately, as it is already happening in other countries across the world.
It is difficult to take this discussion further without the risk of edging into the alarmist. So I'm going to stop there unless and until anything new comes up.
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Almost every other country has closed schools - we have no plans to as yet. Instead, the Government is talking about passing a law to allow larger class sizes if there are teacher absences. So, rather than having 30 children in a class, you cram in 40 or more, where is the sense there?
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Almost every other country has closed schools - we have no plans to as yet. Instead, the Government is talking about passing a law to allow larger class sizes if there are teacher absences. So, rather than having 30 children in a class, you cram in 40 or more, where is the sense there?
Possibly because with so many working parents the children are better off in school than roaming the streets, especially as there is not the childcare facilities to look after them.
So teachers are having to carry the burden.
You could always volunteer your services ;D ;D ;D
Mike
A little addition, children seem not to catch it, the super experts don’t know why.
Maybe because their immune systems are as yet unpolluted by pills and potions
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This government had no intention of banning large gatherings of people and had to reverse this decision two days later, a shambles! Their stated intention is to leave the EU with no agreement if necessary, an EU which supplies half of our grub & will hold all the cards when these amateurs finally get round the table. This emergency couldn't be foreseen & Brexit should therefore be binned! Peoples lives depend on this. To think that a few short weeks ago we were worrying about rainfall.
Skoosh.
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Almost every other country has closed schools - we have no plans to as yet. Instead, the Government is talking about passing a law to allow larger class sizes if there are teacher absences. So, rather than having 30 children in a class, you cram in 40 or more, where is the sense there?
You could always volunteer your services ;D ;D ;D
I think she might have difficulty since she and I are in the age-group which is being locked up for four months. Along with all those children's grandparents. Another example of a totally unworkable knee-jerk reaction to a major incident by a government which frankly hasn't got a clue.
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Yes totally unworkable GS. If grandparents are locked up who will do the unpaid childcare after school and if schools are closed?
How will they know who is over 70 - are we to be tagged or micro chipped?
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Yes totally unworkable GS. If grandparents are locked up who will do the unpaid childcare after school and if schools are closed?
How will they know who is over 70 - are we to be tagged or micro chipped?
It will probably lead to me getting sacked as if childcare and schools shut I will be lfet with no back up
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GS and Groom I couldn't agree more with what you have said about childcare and the government's ridiculous proposal regarding over 70's.
It is totally unworkable for a variety of reasons. If we all use common sense, irrespective of age and take a few extra precautions surely that should be enough.
Dorrie
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Yes totally unworkable GS. If grandparents are locked up who will do the unpaid childcare after school and if schools are closed?
How will they know who is over 70 - are we to be tagged or micro chipped?
And of course, following on from the suggestion that you should do something practical to deal with the problem (not sure why but let's not dwell on the logic there), I'm not sure that's even legal.
You're right of course, Dorrie, common-sense is what's needed, although there seems to be little of that filtering down from Westminster currently.
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A leaked document from PHS England
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/uk-coronavirus-crisis-to-last-until-spring-2021-and-could-see-79m-hospitalised
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"If we all use common sense ..."
Ah, yes, the populist approach. Who needs epidemiologists, anyway?
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"If we all use common sense ..."
Ah, yes, the populist approach. Who needs epidemiologists, anyway?
Considering that, fortunately, the practical application of common sense is used more often than the practical - as opposed to theoretical - input of epidemiology in a pandemic situation, I would suggest that a combination of both might result in a sensible way forward, with each side giving due respect to the other. The way forward is to work together, not to work against each other.
Seems to me that they had it better sussed during the Great Plague of 1665 (ref Daniel Defoe's Journal of the Plague Year) regarding social care and treatment of those 'locked in', than the British govt has currently.
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I wonder what some of the alarmists would think about me.
I have, occasionally, a dry persistent cough, for which I have medicine as prescribed by my doctor. It is in no way spreading any form of disease, as it is not associated with anything other than a throat "tickle".
Would I be put in solitary confinement, even though I am a relatively healthy 75 year old ???
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I have a paper delivered every day, this morning there was a not attached to my paper, I thought they wouldn't be delivering but much to my surprise they are offering to help if needed and gave us the telephone number to ring, what a lovey gesture
Louisa Maud
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Fortunately I don't look my age & will be able to slip through the cordon sanitaire un-noticed, if challenged my railway passes show me in my 40's anyhow! ;D
Must confess to missing Brexit & my daily dose of English exceptionalism! ;D
Keep Safe All,
Slainte'
Skoosh.
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I really cannot see isolating myself for 4 months if I am fit and able, I have, up till now, got my free TV licence so I am in that age bracket, my butcher told me last week I was sprightly, wasn't sure if he wanted more business but I took it as a compliment, so I will be out when I need to be to fill up on food and essentials
It is a worrying time
Louisa Maud
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I guess I am one of the lucky ones
I’m only a quarter past sixty nine
Nevertheless I think I just might
Consider volunteering to self confine
I have an underlying condition
Makes me wonder how I should act
Though it’s not immediately one
Concerned with the respiratory tract
I’m awaiting the result of a biopsy
Which should be available soon
And if I require further treatment
It won’t make me more immune
My leg is hanging on by a thread
The hip could give way any day
And what is inhibiting an operation
Is an infection which won’t go away
I had a holiday booked in Turkey
Looking forward to some warm R&R
Fat chance that will now go ahead
Ah well ! - “Que sera sera” !
There are a lot worse off than me
I seem to still have most of my senses
So it’s roof down head for the countryside
Let the sun boost my natural defences
Roger
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I too have decided that shopping online,so delivered ,will get me through.
I also can walk in the nearby cemetery,and if the police come I can always swear blind I was just cutting out the middlemen.
I decided it was not the time to get dog,.
But assuming I am discharged from Eye Hosp on Thursday, it it is really,lots of time together to get to know each other,a reasonable sized garden for play etc.so I will enquire.
Erato’s post made me laugh out loud,Police taking old people back home.
If you know the old Ealing Comedy films Erato you will know what I mean.
The first could be “ KIND HEARTS AND CORONA”
I wouldn’t mind being taken home by a nice policeman!
Viktoria.
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“ KIND HEARTS AND CORONA”, Viktoria , you deserve to be immortalized for that. I will be stealing it and shamelessly using it many times.
Martin
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Well I received my bulk email from Sainsburys today about not stockpiling - which I haven't been doing. No mention made about no delivery slots available for on-line shopping for next 3 weeks.
Viktoria -- I expect you will be going out when the 'ban' comes in, just hoping to be escorted home by a young handsome policeman!
Bear in mind that after the first half a dozen times, it might not work and you'll be arrested for being a public nuisance. Confinement in a cell for you young lady.
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How will they know who is over 70 - are we to be tagged or micro chipped?
Cut off a limb and count the rings, like with trees! ;D
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I also can walk in the nearby cemetery,and if the police come I can always swear blind I was just cutting out the middlemen.
I decided it was not the time to get dog,.
But assuming I am discharged from Eye Hosp on Thursday, it it is really,lots of time together to get to know each other,a reasonable sized garden for play etc.so I will enquire.
Apparently the government are saying today that us oldies can walk our dogs so you could get one now if you want to :). Let us know what you decide.
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We could get toy ones on wheels and pretend ;D
I've just check delivery slots -
Waitrose's site is down and Sainsbury's have no slots for the next 3 weeks - owing to the high demand.
I didn't need to place an order but was just checking ::)
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We could get a toy one on wheels and pretend ;D
I could borrow my next-door-neighbour's :D
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At least our wee friends will still get their walkies then. :)
My O/H will be pleased when he hears this news as he said our dog would get his walk even if they were arrested in the process. ::) I will let him know when he comes back from the opticians. Rory (our cocker spaniel) has already been out twice today. Can't keep an old dog down or under house arrest.
Love your sense of humour Viktoria
Dorrie
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I'm going to hire my dog out for over 70s to walk. £20 an hour. She's going to love it!
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For £20:00 per hour, will walk it every day of the week for you, minimum 4 hours p/d. ::) ::) ::)
Malky
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When are you back from France, Mike? Let us know and you can start taking bookings.
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Just announced on the news that the BBC are postponing the over 75's having to pay for their TV Licence until the 1st August.
Dorrie
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Interesting:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01p6m/
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Interesting:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01p6m/
Very. A piece of good news which is badly needed at the moment. Let's hope the trials go well.
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Interesting:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01p6m/
:) thanks.
PS ... Coles and other online groceries options in Australia have announced they are stopping all online ordering due to over-use of their system, practical issues etc. Real world outcomes, causing vulnerable people to miss out on their groceries etc unless they go to their local supermarkets between 7 am and 8 am. When only the aged with ID can go through the supermarket....
JM
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We could get a toy one on wheels and pretend ;D
I could borrow my next-door-neighbour's :D
Not sure walking your neighbours is an allowed exception yet, just dogs :)
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Interesting:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01p6m/
:) thanks.
PS ... Coles and other online groceries options in Australia have announced they are stopping all online ordering due to over-use of their system, practical issues etc. Real world outcomes, causing vulnerable people to miss out on their groceries etc unless they go to their local supermarkets between 7 am and 8 am. When only the aged with ID can go through the supermarket....
JM
That is a new development today. According to this they will still deliver to the vulnerable and isolated:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01p6n/
... though I imagine many who fit into that category may not have the facilities or the ability to order online. :(
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When are you back from France, Mike? Let us know and you can start taking bookings.
Supposedly the end of the month, Jen, but we're maybe going to come home this week instead. They've closed all the cafes and restaurants here, so it's not as much fun as it was - and if (when?) we get the virus we'd rather be at home then here. Just sorting out a vet's appointment to get the dog's passport stamped.
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We could get a toy one on wheels and pretend ;D
I could borrow my next-door-neighbour's :D
Not sure walking your neighbours is an allowed exception yet, just dogs :)
Note the apostrophe! I said my next door neighbour's (dog) not my next door neighbours ;D Although I would be quite happy to walk them as well if requested :D
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Years ago there were on sale dog leads that were rigid,with a collar attached.
It really looked as if you had an invisible dog on a lead!
Teenagers were walking all over Bury with them.
Now if I can find mine ,and am stopped and pulled in by the boys in blue (or black )I will swear blind again that only intelligent people can see dogs of the particular breed I am walking.( can’t think of a breed off hand ).
Should ask great grandson ,they are moving to a new Grumbelow,you know a house with no upstairs.
Well the sun is shining, we have just had delicious fish and chips and are off to the cemetery to feed the birds soon.
Perhaps the dog I will claim is on the lead is a Gruffalo.
Viktoria.
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Think I'll go off to the coast for a bit of sea air :)
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Oh dear, now you've started something - panic and bulk buying of dogs so that over 70s can go out. ;D ;D
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Rofl (or perhaps that should be WOOFL)
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The BBC are now reporting that some minister has said the over 70s will be able to go for walkies:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51901818
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If you can get a grocery delivery slot, watch out for those substitutions. My daughter ordered paracetamol two weeks ago and they brought sanitary towels as an alternative. ??? The mind boggles if she had been a he.
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Boris has decreed we are allowed out as from this afternoon, yippee!
Can you imagine how busy the solicitors will be in 5 months time?, murder or divorce after being locked in together and not allowed out for 4 months, only joking
Louisa Maud
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(plaintive little voice) Please, can I walk out to "persuade" my cats to come back inside?
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Can you imagine how busy the solicitors will be in 5 months time?, murder or divorce after being locked in together and not allowed out for 4 months, only joking
Perhaps they've decided there's a shortage of solicitors as well as of doctors etc.
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It really makes me feel like falling asleep till about November time and wake up in time for my birthday, what worries me also is, a lot of people who suffer from depression will be suffering more if they have to be cooped up for so long
I think we have to avoid large gatherings the latest from Boris
Thank goodness for the camaraderie on Rootschat
Louisa Maud
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Boris has decreed we are allowed out as from this afternoon, yippee!
Can you imagine how busy the solicitors will be in 5 months time?, murder or divorce after being locked in together and not allowed out for 4 months, only joking
Louisa Maud
On the radio this morning there were quite a few people who were saying that as much as they loved their other half, 4 months locked up with them would drive them mad.
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Went shopping for two things this morning at 10:00 hrs when Costco opened. Absolutely nuts. They were queing to get out. One person at the door checking trolleys as the shoppers left.
Did manage to get Spaghetti, Macaroni and Lasagne elsewhere.
We are all destined either to get a lot fatter or a lot slimmer.
How many will consume the stuff they have bought, more quickly, just because they know it it there in their cupboards.
Ahh, the human mind.
One last thought. If they start rationing food, which they are already talking about, how will those who are shopping for the weak and infirm, manage to purchase goods for them?
(No, I cannot sell you that. You purchased the same items yesterday. You are hoarding.)
Malky
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How do you think coupons worked?
Skoosh.
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One last thought. If they start rationing food, which they are already talking about, how will those who are shopping for the weak and infirm, manage to purchase goods for them?
(No, I cannot sell you that. You purchased the same items yesterday. You are hoarding.)
Malky
In WW2, I believe all family members had their own cards. My gran was diabetic, and so her card allowed her additional / greater quantities of certain goods. My mum said this was a big help for the family (they were 5 in all) at the time. Rationing was still happening when I was born in 1953.
But then of course there was the 'black market', which nowadays is those trying to sell hand wipes on eBay or Amazon for extortionate prices... Ah what times we are now in!
#WashYourHands
Cheers all
Ms_C - in an equally crazy Toronto, Canada
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One last thought. If they start rationing food, which they are already talking about, how will those who are shopping for the weak and infirm, manage to purchase goods for them?
(No, I cannot sell you that. You purchased the same items yesterday. You are hoarding.)
Malky
Everything I've heard them say on tv is that there is plenty of food and pleading with people not to panic buy.
There was a chap vox popped whilst loading up his car in a supermarket car park on the news last night and when asked why he was buying so much, actually said 'because everyone else is"!! Not a shred of embarrassment either!
Have we turned into a nation of sheep? Baa! :'(
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I think it is the thought we might not be allowed out, no choice, if we choose of our own volition to stay in that is our own choice , to be told we can't is a different feeling altogther, but in all honesty I am all for NOT spreading germs about, if I have a sore throat or a very bad cold I do stay in and tell my family to stay away as well, I am all for containing germs, it is a matter of choice which might be taken away from us soon
Louisa Maud
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I was asked, by a mate in the pub, to consider joining a community scheme doing the shopping for vulnerable people.
A worthy cause ;D
But, hang on a minute!
I'm 66 - and therefore in the "vulnerable" group!
I'm diabetic - and therefore in the "vulnerable" group!
Not sure it would be sensible for me to get involved? :D
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Jillruss, pure selfishness I think and they are getting away with it, I might just buy a tin or two extra but I am certainly not panick buying, some must be getting into huge debt.
What we haven't got we will make do with an alternative, we wont starve, might do us good infact
Louisa Maud
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I am 77 Garrard and apart from a hip replacement I think I am almost as good as a younger person, even my butcher told me I was sprightly, cheeky man! we are as old as we feel, all this lark about keeping the over 70' s is a load of rubbish, there are a lot of over 70's still working and voluntarily
Louisa Maud
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I went to Aldi this afternoon - near empty shelves. Talking to the assistant, she told me that yesterday was terrible, car park full an hour before opening, then everyone grabbing whatever they could, the queues were VERY long and the abuse was horrendous. However, as the company had issued a notice of "no more than 4 of the same item", staff were relieving trolleys of excesses and then offering them to the elderly and other customers. And finally she suggested if I needed help I could telephone her and she would deliver to me. :)
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See Bumble B there are nice people about and thank God for them
Louisa Maud
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An excellent article in today's National by actor Bill Paterson. The subject is Peterhead man Dr James Niven who was Medical Officer of Health in Manchester during the Spanish Flu epidemic. Thanks to Niven's locking-down of that city, Manchester never suffered the death-toll experienced in the other industrial centres in the north of England. The municipality delivered food, fuel & medicines to the poor throughout the crisis.
Niven & his team he writes, were exactly the kind of "experts!" that Michael Gove told us he had "had enough of!" Bill Paterson confesses an interest in the good doctor as he played him in a BBC drama "The Spanish Flu; the Forgotten Fallen!" back in 2009 during the Swine Flu epidemic of that year. Niven & his inspiring story, he says, has remained with him to this day.
Skoosh.
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See Bumble B there are nice people about and thank God for them
Louisa Maud
I'm hoping that I have NEVER EVER doubted that fact. :)
And another company offering help to the elderly.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51906744
Moderator Comment: We've created a new topic to continue this discussion (just to stop it getting into too many pages). Here is the new topic:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=827130.0