RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: Lensmeister on Sunday 15 March 20 20:52 GMT (UK)
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Greeting my fellow Rootchatters,
I have managed to locate Sarah Emma Preedy (nee Jenkins) on the 1881 census living in St. Annes Soho, Middlesex/London England.
She is living with her husband William (Henry) and they are under the name Purdy.
He is aged 45 and her 48.
Sarah Emma was born in 1831 (kindly helped here: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=774316.0)
I'm sure I have located William on the 1901 census living in Islington. He died in 1912 I think.
According to one of my cousins, William Henry Preedy remarried in 1891 to an Eliza Martin in Strand district. (Can anyone confirm this?)
I have checked FreeBMD and the GRO search for a Sarah, Emma, Sarah Emma and all sorts of versions of Preedy between 1881 and 1901 but to no avail.
Can anyone help on this?
Many many thanks in advance.
Stay safe everyone.
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Hi if he was anything to do with the stage, b Westminster he is a married Inmate in 1911?
Keyboard86
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According to one of my cousins, William Henry Preedy remarried in 1891 to an Eliza Martin in Strand district. (Can anyone confirm this?)
He appears to be the same person, here in 1891 with Eliza
Class: RG12; Piece: 162; Folio: 135; Page: 14
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:3RCM-GZM
The birth of their son?
PREEDY, GEORGE FREDERICK
Mother's maiden surname: MARTYN
GRO Reference: 1889 M Quarter in EDMONTON Volume 03A Page 297
If Emma did die, I would be looking for a death close to William's second marriage date.
Debra :)
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William Preedy age 50 married Eliza Martin age 27 on 29 January 1891 at St Martin in the Field Westminster
his father Henry Preedy, her father James Martin
1881 census 3 Angel Court, St Mary Le Strand
James Martin book binder 39 born Westminster
Sarah -wife 40 born Spitalfields
Eliza 16 machine ruler born Whitechapel
William 14 errand boy born Whitechapel
Arthur 13 born St Mary le Strand
Herbert 10 born St Mary le Strand
Henry 5 born same
Benjamin 2 born same.
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Hi if he was anything to do with the stage, b Westminster he is a married Inmate in 1911?
Keyboard86
William (Henry) Preedy was a Scene Shift in the Theatre Royal Drury Lane.
He remarried in 1901 to Eliza Martin.
:)
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According to one of my cousins, William Henry Preedy remarried in 1891 to an Eliza Martin in Strand district. (Can anyone confirm this?)
He appears to be the same person, here in 1891 with Eliza
Class: RG12; Piece: 162; Folio: 135; Page: 14
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:3RCM-GZM
The birth of their son?
PREEDY, GEORGE FREDERICK
Mother's maiden surname: MARTYN
GRO Reference: 1889 M Quarter in EDMONTON Volume 03A Page 297
If Emma did die, I would be looking for a death close to William's second marriage date.
Debra :)
Thank you.
That is the family.
God alone knows what has happened to Sarah Emma Preedy (nee Jenkins) by the time the marriage has happened.
I am actually descended from Sarah Emma's son William Henry (b.1865).
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William Preedy age 50 married Eliza Martin age 27 on 29 January 1891 at St Martin in the Field Westminster
his father Henry Preedy, her father James Martin
1881 census 3 Angel Court, St Mary Le Strand
James Martin book binder 39 born Westminster
Sarah -wife 40 born Spitalfields
Eliza 16 machine ruler born Whitechapel
William 14 errand boy born Whitechapel
Arthur 13 born St Mary le Strand
Herbert 10 born St Mary le Strand
Henry 5 born same
Benjamin 2 born same.
Excellent .. thanks.
It givesme a date to search back from … I've looked for Sarah Emma's death from 1881 to 1891.
Lord knows what I am doing wrong
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Freebmd has an 1884 death for a 54yr old Emma Preedy and another in Edmonton 1886 aged 55. Both deaths match the birthyear you gave
Have you already ruled both out?
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Freebmd has an 1884 death for a 54yr old Emma Preedy and another in Edmonton 1886 aged 55. Both deaths match the birthyear you gave
Have you already ruled both out?
Not yet. She is Sarah Emma and on all census she is shown as Sarah so I was a bit "put off" those but they make sense.
Edmonton is not close to The area (Strand/Islington) that the family lived.
Brentford is a bit of a stretch too.
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Edmonton is not close to The area (Strand/Islington) that the family lived.
But the Strand Union workhouse was located in Edmonton at this date, so the Edmonton death should not be ruled out on distance alone.
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The 1884 death was buried 7.10.1884 at St Mary Ealing - address just given as Ealing
Have you looked at which Registration district they were living in 1881 and where William was in 1891. Use those RD's to narrow down a search.
Use the wildcard search if using Ancestry or FindMyPast p**d*y in case of misspelling. On freebmd just search for all Sarah deaths in those RD's between 1881 - 1891 and again for all Emma deaths
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The 1884 death was buried 7.10.1884 at St Mary Ealing - address just given as Ealing
Have you looked at which Registration district they were living in 1881 and where William was in 1891. Use those RD's to narrow down a search.
Use the wildcard search if using Ancestry or FindMyPast p**d*y in case of misspelling. On freebmd just search for all Sarah deaths in those RD's between 1881 - 1891 and again for all Emma deaths
Ealing is defo not likely as such but thank you fot your help :)
Edmonton is not close to The area (Strand/Islington) that the family lived.
But the Strand Union workhouse was located in Edmonton at this date, so the Edmonton death should not be ruled out on distance alone.
Now that makes a bit of sense if that is the case.
I'll head in the direction of ordering the 1886 DC ad a pdf.
Thanks all.
I will let you know the results.
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There is a WH record 1875 for Emma Preedy - Westminster. Cannot view it properly on my iPad so can't post further details
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There is a WH record 1875 for Emma Preedy - Westminster. Cannot view it properly on my iPad so can't post further details
WH record?
Workhouse ?
Thanks :)
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There is a WH record 1875 for Emma Preedy - Westminster.
I think this may be a red herring. This Emma Preedy was discharged from the Westminster workhouse in 1875 to the Hanwell Asylum, and the target Sarah (Emma) Preedy has been found at home in 1881.
Also, although this record is a Westminster workhouse, it’s the wrong union (ref. WEBG/WM/054/004). The reference for the Strand Union is WEBG/ST....
For anyone who wants to check manually, A&D records for the Edmonton workhouse are on Ancestry under London, England, Workhouse Admission and Discharge Records, 1764-1930 > Westminster > Westminster > Edmonton Workhouse Register, 1870-1902.
ADDED - There may also be unindexed records for the Strand Union browsable in Ancestry’s other database - London, England, Poor Law and Board of Guardian Records, 1738-1926.
If nothing relevant is found, you might also want to consider whether William Preedy's second marriage may have been bigamous, which was not uncommon in London at this period.
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Will have a look shortly
Thanks for he help
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If nothing relevant is found, you might also want to consider whether William Preedy's second marriage may have been bigamous, which was not uncommon in London at this period.
Thanks … If this had been the case then the gossip would have filtered down maybe.
Another thing to look for.
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Hi they must have been in the area of Edmonton at some time, as the son George F Preedy b 1889 was shown as born Wood Green on three census returns, in 1911 in Overseas Military?
If you follow George F Preedy back he is with a Widowed father in 1901, and with his father/mother in 1891, William aged 77 is shown as married/inmate St John's Road, Upper Holloway in 1911, which was a Workhouse.
Keyboard86
PS I can locate an Eliza Preedy b c 1869 Islington / married on 1901/1911?
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Right, as a continuation of my last post, this is 1891 census as previously supplied:-
William Preedy 1835 occ Stage Carpenter b Westminster
Eliza 1869 b Islington
George F 1889 b Wood Green
Florence Brinkman 1883 G Daughter b City Road
William Preedy 1886 G Son b Drury Lane
Census ref RG12/162/135/14
Florence Maud Brinkman was registered March qtr 1883 Holborn mmn Preedy
William Preedy was registered Dec qtr 1885 Strand mmn Stogden? possibly other births have mmn as Snowden?
Francis George Brinkman married Liddie Preedy June qtr 1882 Holborn ( Think this is Eliza Preedy b c 1861, she later marries as a Brinkman to a Challice)
1871 Census Stephen Street, St Pancras
William H Preedy 1833 occ Stage Carpenter
Sarah 1835
William 1866
Eliza 1861
Census ref RG10/208/65/64
1861 census possible:-
William REEDY 23? ( as transcribed ) occ Labourer b Westminster
Sarah Preedy 29 b St Giles
Eliza 6 months b St Giles
41, Dudley Street, St Giles
Census ref RG09/173/35/70
Keyboard86
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Hi Keyboard86,
Finally a chance to get a moment to write as reply. As I mentioned I had to rush out to collect my wife from work as there are some very serious issues there and she needed my support. These are stressful times for everyone. Lets hope things begin to get better for everyone.
I was at first a bit dubious about the Edmonton connection. The family were always in the Strand/Islington/Seven Dials area. The birth of George Frederick from the second Marriage does confirm that William Henry Preedy is the father (MMN Martyn) and the 1891 census.
The Stage Carpenter as an occupation nailed it too.
I am looking forward to the arrival of the Death pdf of Sarah Emma Preedy in due course. Soon as I get it I'll share with you all the info.
Thanks for you help.
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Hi again, the William Preedy in the Workhouse 1911 was a Stage Scene Shifter, it is the wife Eliza b c 1869 Islington who I can possibly locate on 1901/1911?
Keyboard86
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Hi again, the William Preedy in the Workhouse 1911 was a Stage Scene Shifter
Keyboard86
He was employed at the Theatre Royal Drury Lane.
My Nan told me stories of the family time in the area.
IT all ties in nicely. If I managed to get more than a few moments in work I'll print this thread off and transfer the info on to my FTM program.
Thanks again :)
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William Preedy age 50 married Eliza Martin age 27 on 29 January 1891 at St Martin in the Field Westminster
his father Henry Preedy, her father James Martin
1881 census 3 Angel Court, St Mary Le Strand
James Martin book binder 39 born Westminster
Sarah -wife 40 born Spitalfields
Eliza 16 machine ruler born Whitechapel
William 14 errand boy born Whitechapel
Arthur 13 born St Mary le Strand
Herbert 10 born St Mary le Strand
Henry 5 born same
Benjamin 2 born same.
For my records, this marriage, what occupation did both fathers have, and that of William?
Keyboard86
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Morning all,
The death cert pdf came in on Friday but with all this Covid-19 stuff going on and our house looking like wrecking ball has been taken to it (having the bathroom utterly replaced) I haven't spent a lot o time with Family History.
PREEDY, EMMA 55
GRO Reference: 1886 M Quarter in EDMONTON Volume 03A Page 191
That is what I ordered but it looks like it is the wrong one.
DOD: 19/01/1886 21 Hillside Road.
Emma Preedy
55 YO
Wife of William Preedy a broker.
Informant: A A Sugg - sister.
The search for Sarah Emma Preedy's death continues.
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Evening all,
I think I have had a bit of a breakthrough ... mainly because I finally signed up to Ancestry (money been tight for ages.)
There is a WH record 1875 for Emma Preedy - Westminster. Cannot view it properly on my iPad so can't post further details
Looking at CaroleW post I found the 1875 Work house entry (https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60391/images/31436_191037-00772?treeid=&personid=&hintid=&queryId=893bb4c18d42bcae6f1b87067957e48f&usePUB=true&_phsrc=sAI133&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&_ga=2.193155049.534900020.1609256557-179510558.1609061570&_gac=1.61959134.1609520077.CjwKCAiArbv_BRA8EiwAYGs23BDtkEYuZzor1t2hQbc4UyhaJ9-mKwvIX8hKGccaBSrsL-F7WQeu0xoCDaQQAvD_BwE&pId=5047264).
Poor lady Emma Preedy was insane. OK there is a bit of writing before the name Preedy I cannot work out.
On the right of the entry.
There is a bit about being transferred to Hanwell Lunatic Asylum. Hanwell is near Ealing.
This lead me to revisit CaroleW's thought on the burial.
The 1884 death was buried 7.10.1884 at St Mary Ealing - address just given as Ealing
PREEDY, EMMA 54
GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in BRENTFORD Volume 03A Page 51
This looks likely now.
Ealing, Hanwell and Brentford all close by.
Sorry CaroleW for denying your results.
So my question to everyone this evening ...
What are your thoughts ?
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I forgot to mention.
Sarah Emma Preedy is on the 1881 census.
As - EMMA !
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Hi
Lunacy admissions on ancestry, no Preedy admission then, but
Emily Priddy, admitted to Hanwell 4 Feb 1875 (as per workhouse record)
Discharged 19 Jan 1891, Died
Death, March 1891 Uxbridge 3a 30
Priddy, Emily
age 64
So this lady seems to be unconnected to your search :(
John
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Thanks for the thoughts.
Preedy is one of those names that get regularly misspelt.
Preedy, Priddy, Prudy, Predy, even Reedy.
The Timeline in full (to my knwledge):
1830 born Sarah Emma Jenkins born the daughter of Robert and Maria.
1859 Married William Preedy at St. Martin in the Fields, Middlesex.
1861 had child Eliza
1961 Census 41 Dudley Street, Westminster.
1862 had son Henry
1863 son Henry died
1865 son William Henry born (my ancestor)
1871 census 25 Stephen Street St Pancras.
1881 census Henry Preedy at Greek Street, Soho. with a wife called Emma.
1888 William and Eliza have a child called George Frederick in Wood Green (according to my cousin on Ancestry)
1891 Jan 29th; William Preedy marries Eliza Ward in St. Martins in the Fields, Stand.
1891 census not found
1901 census William is a widow living in Islington.
1911 census William as inmate in Upper Holloway listed as married.
So the death of Sarah Emma Preedy remains a mystery? (also raises a few questions)
Beginning lose the will to find her :(
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I now see that Emily Priddy was in the Westminster Union workhouse in 1871, age 44. So presumably she is the lady who died in Hanwell in 1891.
I think William has been found in 1891 with his family in Islington, piece 162 folio 135 page 14.
Ruby on ancestry.
John
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Emma Preedy buried Ealing, 4 Oct 1884, age 54.
There is also a text only entry from England & Scotland, Select Cemetery Registers.
Which says she is buried "Ground Dwiscon B" (What is Dwiscon? Division?)
Grave 15/o
So that seems to be a family grave, with Thomas Preedy buried 4 July 1917, age 86. Also three children buried in 15/o, 1867-70, Ernest Preedy, Ellen Preedy, and Sarah Ann Preedy.
Possibly the Emma Preedy born Taplow married to Thomas the greengrocer, who are around in Ealing at that time.
What is left? :-\
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1830 born Sarah Emma Jenkins born the daughter of Robert and Maria.
1859 Married William Preedy at St. Martin in the Fields, Middlesex.
Marriage says father Robert Jenkins, Tailor.
DOD: 19/01/1886 21 Hillside Road.
Emma Preedy
55 YO
Wife of William Preedy a broker.
Informant: A A Sugg - sister.
Could it have said M A Sugg? :-\
Have you got the address of the informant?
Marriage at St Martin in the Fields, 18 Sep 1853
Harry Sugg, full age, Bachelor, Wine Porter
+
Mary Ann Jenkins, full age, Spinster, father Robert Jenkins, Tailor
residence for both Bedfordbury
A witness was a Robert Jenkins.
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:'(
I almost give up on her.
1830 born Sarah Emma Jenkins born the daughter of Robert and Maria.
1859 Married William Preedy at St. Martin in the Fields, Middlesex.
Marriage says father Robert Jenkins, Tailor.
Yes, Sarah Emma's father was Robert Jenkins, a Tailor.
DOD: 19/01/1886 21 Hillside Road.
Emma Preedy
55 YO
Wife of William Preedy a broker.
Informant: A A Sugg - sister.
Could it have said M A Sugg? :-\
Have you got the address of the informant?
Marriage at St Martin in the Fields, 18 Sep 1853
Harry Sugg, full age, Bachelor, Wine Porter
+
Mary Ann Jenkins, full age, Spinster, father Robert Jenkins, Tailor
residence for both Bedfordbury
A witness was a Robert Jenkins.
I haven't got this info anymore. I think I must have deleted the pdf :(
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I haven't got this info anymore. I think I must have deleted the pdf :(
If the informant was indeed M. A. Sugg, jonw65’s find is a clincher. So I suggest you log in to the GRO site and go to My Orders, where pdfs are accessible for 3 months from date of issue.
ADDED - sorry, I now see the order was more than 3 months ago :(
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Hi
Yes, like bookbox, I am sorry to hear that, I am sure we all are.
Not sure what can be done. If you think it might be your Emma after all, at least you can stop looking. Perhaps hope to get the pdf again at sometime in the future. You have recorded some of the info from it.
Looking at the electoral registers on ancestry, William Preedy is a lodger voter at 57 Greek Street in St Anne, Westminster (Soho) in 1883. Two rooms unfurnished, 3rd floor. At 5/- a week.
This is where he was in the 81 census with Emma. He is not listed there on the 1884 register.
Some news from the 1887 electoral register for Wood Green (polling District E, Tottenham Div of Middlesex)
William Praedy is listed at 21 Hillside-road.
I thought that was an ancestry error, but it does say Praedy!
We already have a Wood Green connection (apparently!)
What could be meant by broker? I was wondering if William could have tried his hand as a furniture broker, something like that? :-\
Bizarrely, finding 21 Hillside Road, Wood Green, in 1891, the occupant was Charles Knight, Insurance Broker! Piece 1072 folio 90 page 57
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q6R8-RT2
In fact the street seems a bit posh, with servants all over the place! So now what to think? :-\
Don't reorder that pdf just yet!
John
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I haven't got this info anymore. I think I must have deleted the pdf :(
If the informant was indeed M. A. Sugg, jonw65’s find is a clincher. So I suggest you log in to the GRO site and go to My Orders, where pdfs are accessible for 3 months from date of issue.
ADDED - sorry, I now see the order was more than 3 months ago :(
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Just had to buy a new camera so now the bank Manager (wife) will say no. May have to wait and stealthily reorder.
OK so as I am pretty thick at the moment (Brain Fog thanks to Long Covid)
we now think that the Sarah Emma Preedy that died in in 1886 is my Sarah Emma. My only thought is if William Preedy is noted everywhere as a Scene Shifter and Stage painter then on this he is a "broker". As John said below.
Amended Timeline
The Timeline in full (to my knowledge):
1830 born Sarah Emma Jenkins born the daughter of Robert and Maria.
1859 Married William Preedy at St. Martin in the Fields, Middlesex.
1861 had child Eliza
1961 census 41 Dudley Street, Westminster.
1862 had son Henry
1863 son Henry died
1865 son William Henry born (my ancestor)
1871 census 25 Stephen Street St Pancras.
1881 census 57 Greek Street in St Anne, Westminster (Soho) (as Prudy)
1886 died as Emma Preedy aged 55
1888 William and Eliza have a child called George Frederick in Wood Green (according to my cousin on Ancestry)
1891 Jan 29th; William Preedy marries Eliza Ward in St. Martins in the Fields, Stand.
1891 census not found
1901 census William is a widow living in Islington.
1911 census William as inmate in Upper Holloway listed as married.
John and Bookbox.
Thanks you so much.
I went for a walk to clear the head and I'm rereading it all.
It's all very confusing.
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Afternoon all,
I have applied for the Emma Preedy death cert
PREEDY, EMMA 55
GRO Reference: 1886 M Quarter in EDMONTON Volume 03A Page 191
I'll repost what it says when I get it. should be about 19th March 21.
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Evening all,
The GRO sent my request a little early so here is the low down on Emma Preedy.
Died: 19 Jan 1886 21 Hillside Road Edmonton.
Name: Emma PReedy
Female
55 Years
Wife of William Preedy a Broker
Informant: M.A. Sugg of 3 Creamont Place Stepney (I think it is Creamont)
This looks likely the best fit but the fact a former stage carpenter/painter being a broker is the thing that puts me off a little. Bit not enough to disbar it.
Thoughts?
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Hi
I think the most promising thing about it is the informant, M. A. Sugg. Which you have now confirmed.
Did it note any relationship between the informant and Emma?
Can M A Sugg be found in the 1881 and/or 1891 census?
John
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MA Sugg is listed as Sister.
I'm convinced it is her more and more
Thanks Jon and everyone :)
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1881
Harry Sugg 51 - b Appleston (?) Hants Carman
Mary Ann Sugg 55 b Middlesex
Waterloo Street, Limehouse/Stepney
RG11; 467; 39; 12;
Not doing well on 1891
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That's Stepney way, Mabel, and looks very promising. We only need her to be still alive in 1886 to register Emma's death!
John
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Mary A Sugg 66 b London, Middx
With Harry Sugg 62 occ Carman
1891 RG12/309/55/29
Redmans Road, M E O T
Keyboard86
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Mr and Mrs Luff on Ancestry - no wonder I had trouble!
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AWESOME and thank you to all involved in this one.
I think we have her
Sarah Emma Preedy (nee Jenkins) died in 1886.