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General => The Stay Safe Board => Topic started by: trystan on Saturday 21 March 20 19:14 GMT (UK)
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Why are the over-70s in the UK still going out?
The health specialists of the UK have told the over-70s, and any persons of any age with significant health conditions should not go out.
Why is it I've so many, even frail ones shuffling down the street, stopping speaking to each other face-to-face?
Even my own mother in her late 70s went to the village shop today to get newspapers.
Why I wonder?
Trystan
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Because there's no age limit on stupidity.
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For some of them, if they don't go out they won't get any food. And presumably the supermarkets wouldn't be setting aside special times for the elderly and vulnerable if there wasn't any demand (unless it's just to make them appear more caring).
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I thought that we could still go for walks but keeping social distancing and at quieter times or in quieter places.
My husband was going for his newspaper but we have downloaded the app for it so we have been in for two days now.
We walked around the block yesterday. It was very windy and cold and today I walked around the corner with something for my son but left it outside to be picked up.
My neighbour went into town for shoes for her child who will still be in school and said that it was very busy. She then called in the supermarket and got all she needed.
I found today a bit difficult so goodness knows what it will be like after a few days- then weeks- then months.
I have tried to keep away from the news after the update at lunchtime. It is such an emotional time - ranging from disbelief to fear to ‘all will be well’.
I have enjoyed reading the threads on here though and hope they continue with a mix of observation and experiences and light hearted comment.
Some churches, including fairly local ones, have been broadcasting various services which I have found useful although I realise not everyone would but I think there are other organisations trying to help - fitness etc.
I am thankful we have Rootschat too. :)
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Far from being stupid we are well aware that we are being asked to join a queue to die, for the benefit of the NHS,
If, and I say if, we choose to make our last months pleasurable at no risk to younger people then that is our choice.
We have to shop for food, that is a fact, socialising in the open is no worse than queueing in shops
Mike
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Some won't see or speak to anyone unless they go out. Some are looking after other old people.
There are community help groups being set up in some areas. Volunteers offer to fetch shopping and prescriptions or chat on the phone.
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And why are 45ish people hugging in the streets? I ( a going out, but in the car, 74 year old ) saw this happen today.
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Trystan - whilst I realise that these "rules" have been brought in for obvious reasons, what can the reality be like for many of those people? Especially those who live alone and not in good health. I am in that category - I live alone, I'm an only child - so no close family - my closest cousin and her husband are in the same age category. I live in a row of 8 terraced cottages - my immediate neighbour, (to my left) is aged 99 and being looked after by her daughter + carers. Myself and the two neighbours to the other side have had a major fall-out so they're unapproachable (one is over 85). The other people I don't know at all. Therefore I have no-one to call on for assistance. How then am I to get food and other necessities? I go out early some mornings to get my meager purchases made, return home within the hour, and stay in for the rest of the day. Occasionally I take a walk around the block to ease the boredom. What do you suggest - that ALL people become permanently imprisoned in their own homes? Perhaps the easiest solution might be for me me to draw all the curtains, lock all the doors and put the house keys down the drain and wait for the inevitable. Thank God I've already paid for my cremation.
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I don't think many people quite understand how serious it is here yet
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Some won't see or speak to anyone unless they go out. Some are looking after other old people.
There are community help groups being set up in some areas. Volunteers offer to fetch shopping and prescriptions or chat on the phone.
I agree with you Maiden Stone and Musicman and others. I know our adult children are really concerned about us and are trying to keep us safe. That is probably how Trystan feels.
I usually volunteer at a lunch club once a week and for some of those who attend it is their only opportunity to meet up, enjoy food, music , bingo etc. The volunteers get such satisfaction from the occasion too - serving people and listening to our favourite music as a bonus!
For many people who live alone, it is going to be so difficult not having some social contact or physical activity.
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Take my own mother as an example.
She has two people who said would do her shopping and drop it off outside the back door. She still went out for newspapers.
Then our neighbour we told her that we could add things to our 'Click and Collect' at Asda. She told us she prefers the fruit and veg at M&S and that she's going to go on the bus. This is despite knowing not to go out. She's 86. Oh and "of course" she likes going to the shop for her newspaper.
Why oh why? These two are examples of over-70s despite being offered help with shopping, defy the instruction to stay at home.
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I don't think many people quite understand how serious it is here yet
I agree - but, I'm responding by trying to explain how things are for the "silent majority" - of whom many will be in a similar situation to myself. We still have to survive - perhaps those of the younger generation might like to come up with sensible solutions to our (the silent majority) problems.
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What do you mean exactly?
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What do you mean exactly?
I'm sorry if I didn't make my meaning clear enough.
Perhaps, Trsytan, your mother, like me, is sick and tired of being stuck indoors all the time and needs to get out for a while and see other humans. How would you react to such "rules" if they were brought in to apply to those within a certain age group that includes you?
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The reason I am still going out is that I have a seriously ill daughter who is awaiting surgery during the coming week - unless cv closes the operating facilities in the hospital. I don't have any family near, and it's me who has to take her to hospital for her regular health-checks and occasional emergencies. It's me who has to scour supermarkets for simple foods (such as rich tea biscuits) which she can tolerate, but which seem to have been stockpiled by people who don't actually need them and will probably end up throwing them out when the panic is over. Just because someone is over 70 doesn't mean we don't have responsibilities - there must be tens of thousands of over 70s who are carers in the UK. I am getting sick of people being ageist and judgemental, when they don't know the facts. I would love to sit with my feet up for a few weeks and relax. If only I could be in those shoes, but I'm not - I'm tired, and I'm worried, and I constantly feel utterly despairing and wishing this nightmare would pass. And I don't need people questioning why I'm going out, thank you.
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What do you mean exactly?
I'm sorry if I didn't make my meaning clear enough.
No, that's why I'm asking. Please explain as I'd like to understand.
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Trystan, I’m giving you a virtual smack on the leg young man !
My daughter is a care worker. Yesterday she was picking up prescriptions for her golden oldies who are staying home. Queuing orderly in a freezing wind outside the chemist she spotted an elderly lady with a nasal cannula standing apart from the queue. She left her place in the queue and went to ask if she was ok. She took her to the head of the queue and told the others waiting that they could jolly well wait while this lady went first. She had been discharged early from hospital with portable oxygen and had no-one to help her.
A post on our village Facebook page today from someone 75 miles from her elderly mother, worried to death that her mum would venture out for food. Tesco had denied her an on-line shop for her mother because she was doing the ordering and couldn’t prove it was for her mother and not herself. She’s been doing her on-line shop for a long time. Fortunately several people offered help. We live in a friendly village.
Many older people have no-one, in these days many live alone and don’t even know who their neighbours are. So, that’s why they are out, not from choice but necessity.
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Find out if there is something like a Community Resilience Group operating or being set up in your area. Information on here is for Scotland but is relevant U.K. wide.
Ready Scotland website
"Preparing for and dealing with emergencies"
"Helping in your community"
https://www.readyscotland.org/coronavirus/helping-in-your-community
An existing community group in my area has recruited a small army of helpers. There's a local volunteer contact for almost every street. Cards have been put through doors this week with contact's name + phone number. Local shops and businesses have been visited to find out how they can help. It's part of a town-wide network which is connected to a county-wide network, supported by the district council. Theres an article about it in local paper.
Find out through your local councillor, M.P., website, Facebook, clergy or Age Concern if there's a scheme in your area.
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Perhaps, Trsytan, your mother, like me, is sick and tired of being stuck indoors all the time and needs to get out for a while and see other humans. How would you react to such "rules" if they were brought in to apply to those within a certain age group that includes you?
Well well.
I'm under 70. You're sick and tired of being stuck in for a few days?
We're stuck at home on the same health advice. We are doing it.
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Trystan I fully understand the seriousness of the situation, but please can you explain why you make a point of criticising the over-70s so specifically.
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I think there may be many factors at play here.
1) Older people don't like being told what to do (ordered about) any more than young people do. Sometimes it's just human nature to dig your heels in and ignore orders.
2) Many of the older generation were brought up to get by themselves, and particularly not to be a "nuisance" to others.
3)In times of stress doing what you've always done, sticking to the routine can be a comfort.
4) People are a litle bit scared and a little confused, that can sometimes make us do things that are a little bit silly.
Of course, for the younger relatives of people at risk, this can also be difficult. You are understandably concerned about your elderly relatives and just want to wrtap them up in cotton wool and keep them safe. But just as your parents once had to let you go out and live your own life, with it's own risks, you have to let your parents do the same now.
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Trystan I fully understand the seriousness of the situation, but please can you explain why you make a point of criticising the over-70s so specifically.
I had to check then that you were from the UK there.
The over-70s have been told to stay at home.
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Take my own mother as an example.
She has two people who said would do her shopping and drop it off outside the back door. She still went out for newspapers.
Then our neighbour we told her that we could add things to our 'Click and Collect' at Asda. She told us she prefers the fruit and veg at M&S and that she's going to go on the bus. This is despite knowing not to go out. She's 86. Oh and "of course" she likes going to the shop for her newspaper.
Why oh why? These two are examples of over-70s despite being offered help with shopping, defy the instruction to stay at home.
I said my piece in a previous post, however...
There is an old saying, You can lead a horse to water. Many older people feel that age is already beginning to take away their independence. That simple trip out for the newspaper may be the only exercise, fresh air and conversation with another human being that they will have that day. And as we all know asking for help is a hard thing to do for some people whatever their age.
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The nurses are begging people to stay at home.
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I'm under 70. You're sick and tired of being stuck in for a few days?
We're stuck at home on the same health advice. We are doing it.
It isn't a few days though is it, as over 70s have been asked to stay in for at least 12 weeks, presumably you aren't doing that?
Part of the reason that over 70s have to go out is the selfishness of younger people who have been stock piling and panic buying, leaving nothing on the shelves for older people. Remember a lot of over 70s have to exist on their old age pension and don't have the luxury of being able to buy three or four week’s worth of food. A lot don't have Internet access so cant shop on line and even if they could most stores don't have any slots for at least 3 weeks.
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My 80y+ in laws went out every single day before this
Library, swimming, crown green bowling, window shopping, days out to local markets with a pub lunch.
They are going stir crazy already.
They've told us quite frankly, that they expect to get it at some point in the next 12 months, and they'd like to enjoy what little time they might have left. He's been to the supermarket 3 or 4 times since Sunday.
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I'm under 70. You're sick and tired of being stuck in for a few days?
We're stuck at home on the same health advice. We are doing it.
It isn't a few days though is it, as over 70s have been asked to stay in for at least 12 weeks, presumably you aren't doing that?
Yes, of course we will be doing.
It was announced on Monday, it's only been five days so far.
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Its not the over 70s spreading it they are the ones dying of it because of other Health issues.
If as Sheep you believe what you are being told by the Govt.
Remember, they grew up without State Benefits making them Overweight and Paying their Rent, re using washable nappies and eating worms and playing in the Dirt outside, living on rationed food,
with outside toilets and Newspaper to wipe their arses on.
Then sadly, they made the mistake to bring You lot,up with Throw away Nappies,
disposable Wet wipes,
creating a Generation with no Immunity to a Brainless Virus
that can't comprehend, that when it kills it host
It kills it self.
What's that about ?
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Trystan I fully understand the seriousness of the situation, but please can you explain why you make a point of criticising the over-70s so specifically.
I had to check then that you were from the UK there.
The over-70s have been told to stay at home.
I will rephrase my question. Why is the cut off point specifically 70?
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Ok, now I am getting cross >:(. I will repeat my post from the State of Emergency thread.
A group of university students living in a shared house have all been very unwell. One lad phoned his father and said he thought they all had the virus, high temperatures, etc. This was last weekend.
Fortunately being young they felt better quite quickly. So when they heard the pubs and clubs were going close, what did they do? All went out clubbing and drinking in Cardiff.
Fortunately he called his dad to say he was coming home, all the others had already left to return to their respective homes. I think you can imagine what his father said >:( Needless to say he’s not coming home.
So don’t go telling us oldies we are irresponsible please. Just to add I’m not 70 just yet but my husband is and we are socially distancing ourselves. We will be out walking tomorrow but well away from other people, we don’t have a death wish!
Now I’m off to the party...the virtual one I hasten to add :D. I need a bit of light relief.
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Perhaps it depends on whether or not you think that delaying the inevitable is the right tactic.
While we wait firms will go out of business, leisure facilities close never to reopen.
I shall continue to follow the advice, note it is not yet an instruction, as far as I am able but I do not wish to see my children and grandchildren having to rebuild a broken society, I am unconvinced we are following the wisest course of action.
Mike
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Then sadly, they made the mistake to bring You lot,up with Throw away Nappies,
disposable Wet wipes,
creating a Generation with no Immunity to a Brainless Virus
Well I was put in Terry nappies. Disposable wet wipes hadn't been invented either.
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Thank you all for giving me an insight into this.
The current figures indicate that the UK is about two weeks behind where Italy is with the Covid-19 Coronavirus. The death rate there is about 8%. Yesterday, in one day, some 800 people sadly died of it.
For current information about Coronavirus please go to:
www.nhs.uk/coronavirus
Take care,
Trystan
I'll draw a line here as this is how far as I'll be contributing to this post as I feel that others can offer better input.
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Because for many - especially those who live alone - spending 24/7 doing nothing but breathing in & out within the confines of four walls, for at least 3-months, probably longer, and with no visitors, is something they fear even more than death.
My Dad is in his late 80's, and following a serious heart attack last year had few pleasures left to begin with: 2 hours a week in the club, and watching sport on the telly. Both now gone. He's completely baffled by technology, so isolation means exactly that - no facebook, facetime or forums. Just him. Waking up alone, sitting alone, cooking alone, eating alone, watching tv alone, going to bed alone, and then repeat. All with a frail, slow body, that needs a multitude of pills, a hearing-aid and a walking stick to keep it going. That isn't life, its existing.
He understands the risks but also knows how much we love him, so we've come to a compromise. He will still buy his newspaper from the corner shop (a 1-minute walk) and go for a gentle walk once or twice a day. He's promised not to go to the shops, although I suspect he'll still pop into the local bakery and post office, which are on his walking route.
He knows that he must, must, must wash his hands thoroughly before and after going out, and only speak to people from a distance of at least 6ft.
He'll also still come for Sunday lunch then spend a few hours sitting on our sofa rather than his own. I won't be going out at all, other than to Dad's. Me & hubby are now using separate bedrooms & bathrooms, and sitting on separate sofa's a good few feet apart. Door handles, work surfaces etc are cleaned down at least twice daily, the downstairs loo is thoroughly cleaned after every use, and we now use paper towels instead of hand-towels.
Should Dad still be unfortunate enough to catch this awful virus, at least his final weeks & months won't have been in isolated misery. He won't want saving, he's made that clear.
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The best place to check for all advice and updates is the official government website
https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus
As far as I can see on there it doesn't say that anyone HAS to stay in all the time, it strongly advises that over 70s and people who are vulnerable follow the advice about social distancing. It does say for the sake of mental health "You can also go for a walk or exercise outdoors if you stay more than 2 metres from others."
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Good morning,
It's the same old British mindset that saw us through ww2. But instead of Hitler it's covid19.
OH and me are, at the insistance of junior and daughter, self isolating. Day 3 and i'm going stir crazy.
Daughter refused to let me take no1 member, 15 yr old autistic, of the demolition gang to karate yesterday. It was the one day I wanted to take him more than any other. It was his black belt grading. Should have been over 2 days in the dojo but the leisure centre closed fri night. Sensei took them to the park in the open air and did 2 days work in one. Put them in small groups and his did the 2km run first, then the skills test and fitness last. 100 press ups, 100 sit ups, 100 burpees and a shed load of star jumps.
He passed and is now black belt and I am one proud grandpa. So covid19 can kiss my a***.
John915
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I'm more angry about employers - like the company my son works for - who are still insisting that staff travel in and sit elbow-to-elbow with each other. Their only response to Covid-19 has been to provide one bottle of hand sanitiser for each run of 10 desks.
Their excuse is that they don't have enough equipment to facilitate home-working, yet they are a listed plc whose CEO took home over £1m last year.
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Yesterday (Saturday), the police closed Bondi Beach in Sydney, due to the lack of "social distancing" by the YOUNG brigade taking no notice whatsoever regarding being not close to other people.
Also there were more than 500 people on the beach, in direct disobedience to the regulations.
Being young and part of the Me generation, they were not at all happy at being told to behave themselves.
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I don’t think you can generalise about generations.
There are people in all age groups who seem to think they don’t have to comply with the directives.
I have a daughter (30) working from home in London. She has been doing so for the last three weeks, shouting at her flat mate who Insisted going to the pub, but has for the last week also complied.
And my son is only 26 he had only just started a new job in Madrid (taken so that he could improve his Spanish) fortunately he had also just managed to get a flat, but it is barely furnished, and is now where he is holed up, also working from home. He is allowed out for groceries. They are checked on via drone which will shout at them if it thinks they are going further than they need to.
While we are in NZ.
They worry about us and we worry about them.
Some people will get safely through it no matter how reckless they are, that is the nature of any disease, but they will never know how many people they infected along the way that perhaps did not survive.
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https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/22-03-2020/siouxsie-wiles-toby-morris-what-does-level-two-mean-and-why-does-it-matter/
Scroll down to see the schematic in action
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I really would like to know what over 70's are supposed to do when they have to travel by bus to go out to look after a parent. Sadly I lost my 97 year old dad this time last year, but I and my sister were doing exactly that. Dad didn't have carers, didn't want them.
I shall be good and stay in. I have to say I'm glad dad is no longer here and we are not faced with the situation.
Right now my concern is for my children and grandchildren, especially my son who is a nurse.
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Of course there are people of all ages who need to go out for good reasons.
Equally there are people of all ages behaving irresponsibly.
I agree with Trystan 100%. Those of us at most risk of needing hospital treatment are being urged to stay at home apart from self-distanced exercise TO PROTECT THE MEDICAL FACILITIES WE HAVE AVAILABLE.
How hard is that to understand? In Italy a large number of doctors (young & fit) have died. Who will treat our children with chronic illnesses if NHS staff go under due to a huge wave of people being admitted who could have avoided or delayed it.
And as for all the comments about how resilient we elderly are - being 'bored silly', 'stir crazy' etc after LESS THAN A WEEK doesn't say much for your resilience.
I fear for my children and grandchildren and all those wonderful people who are delivering newspapers, groceries, medicines etc. to me so that I can stay safe. I'm pretty sure I will get the virus at some point but I want to do my bit to delay it so the system can cope.
Stop throwing your toys out of the pram. I'm not going to apologise for offending anyone, I've been offended by some of the unnecessary outrage on this thread.
Pat
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Being "just" 66, I don't fall into the Over-70 category.
But I do have diabetes type 2.
Do I still go out?
Yes - but with social distancing ;D
I should point out that, so far, just 2 confirmed cases on the Isle of Man.
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my OH and I are both over 70 and have found ourselves in a difficult situation regarding the shopping. We visited our nearest superstore last week getting there at about 7.15 am, and the place was packed. We could buy 2 or 3 items of some products, but other products were completely sold out. So, on Sunday, I sat for over an hour on the PC ordering on-line and the earliest delivery slot was more than 3 weeks away. Anyway I compiled my order, but checking it a couple of days later many items were now being listed as unavailable and that they would be deleted from my order. So I thought, how is it that we are being told that the suppliers are stepping up their deliveries to the supermarkets and that manufacturers are increasing their production, but my supermarket seems to know what will be available in 3weeks time and what won't. Well, they don't, I originally ordered a particular brand of floss which was later deemed unavailable, so I chose an alternative brand. Two days later the alternative brand was unavailable but I could substitute it for the brand which I wanted in the first place!!
In a further effort to get some other commodities, OH and I queued at the local small supermarket which was only allowing pensioners and disabled in for the first hour of opening. Unfortunately many of the shelves were still empty from the day before, so our basket didn't contain much at all.
Goodness knows how we are supposed to stay at home for weeks when we can only obtain enough to live on for a few days at a time.
Have a good day everyone unless you have planned otherwise.
PtE
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The over-70s are not confined to barracks as it were and there is no guard on each of their homes. They can still go out for exercise and are asked to social distance whilst doing it Some of them will still need to shop and although the supermarkets are supposed to have set aside time for them it is not being enforced as was reported in the press and media yesterday.
Unlike in the two world wars when people all worked together and looked out for each other the world we live in is much more selfish and self-orientated as can be seen by looking at the shelves emptied by the panic buyers.
It will not be long before the government will have to bring in rationing because a large proportion of people are not listening to what they say.
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I have got to agree with Trystan and have been thinking exactly the same thing. Over 70s and the vulnerable were asked to self isolate for 12 weeks for their safety, that is to say there are limited icu beds should they fall ill and need them. I’m seeing exactly the same as Trystan Mr and Mrs Over 70 bundled up and going walking or shopping. The rest of us are supposed to be restricting our movements only going out as necessary (like work or the shops) to reduce contact with others. Therefore, Im unclear why the UK government has allowed the large supermarkets to have early morning shopping for the elderly and not instigated a different system ...it seems to defeat the original purpose of the directive. Better to set up a delivery or collect system ie register with one market and get a set of support systems in place.
Equally, my mind is blown by personal trainers and gyms who have moved their keep fit classes outdoors into our local park, as if being outdoors means it’s ok for them to be in close contact and continue their sessions. You know it’s not okay so please stop. This situation is hard, really hard for all of us.
Thanks again for bringing this topic up Trystan. Over 70s get a support network in place, accept that kind offer of support from family, friends or the local community. Stay indoors and stay safe.
CD
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Unlike in the two world wars when people all worked together and looked out for each other the world we live in is much more selfish and self-orientated as can be seen by looking at the shelves emptied by the panic buyers.
Black Market? Was that not selfish?
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Therefore, Im unclear why the UK government has allowed the large supermarkets to have early morning shopping for the elderly and not instigated a different system ...it seems to defeat the original purpose of the directive. Better to set up a delivery or collect system ie register with one market and set a set of support systems in place.
I've been saying the same ever since it was first announced. It just encourages us to go out and risk infection.
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Plenty of sensible, balanced advice from Chief Medical Officer for Scotland on "Broadcasting House" now, Radio 4. She's answering questions. I hope it's on BBC IPlayer/BBC Sounds.
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I put this link up on the other thread but I think it's more relevant here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0877mb2
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Scottish Government statement against people piling into their caravans & campervans & heading north to escape restrictions. They are not wanted, folk are locked-down & they will place additional pressure on limited food supplies & medical provision geared to the local people. No tourist season this year.
Skoosh.
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I presume the infrastructure isn't in place to do that at the moment and at all supermarkets there are no slots available for at least 3 weeks. The only way round would be to stop home deliveries completely for the under 70s unless they fall into a vulnerable group or are a key worker. As said before if younger, fitter people hadn’t been so selfish and greedy this situation wouldn't have arisen. Most older people don’t want to go out, they have no choice, it has been forced upon them. If they don’t get food they will starve!
One thing that does worry me is the the state of the mental health of a lot of people if this goes on for months. Fine if you have a partner or live with family, but what about all those who live alone and depended on clubs etc for company? They are now completely isolated with the prospect of seeing no one for days or weeks. I wonder how many of those will succumb to depression or worse!
Rather than blaming one particular group we need to start thinking of others. Stop this idiotic panic buying, younger people stop thinking it is all right to meet up with friends etc. That way we will all get through this.
I’m afraid posts with titles such as this don’t help, rather than bringing the country together, they divide it.
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Unlike in the two world wars when people all worked together and looked out for each other the world we live in is much more selfish
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-33566789
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Perhaps, Trsytan, your mother, like me, is sick and tired of being stuck indoors all the time and needs to get out for a while and see other humans. How would you react to such "rules" if they were brought in to apply to those within a certain age group that includes you?
Well well.
I'm under 70. You're sick and tired of being stuck in for a few days?
A little kindness would a long way :)
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Hysterical language anent people over the age of 70 "shuffling". Anybody shuffling, won't be shuffling very far in any case & going for a pint of milk. Clowns out boogie-ing are a far greater danger!
Skoosh.
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This topic currently under discussion on "Broadcasting House" Radio 4.
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Hysterical language anent people over the age of 70 "shuffling". Anybody shuffling, won't be shuffling very far in any case & going for a pint of milk. Clowns out boogie-ing are a far greater danger!
Skoosh.
You are absolutely right. We all need to take responsibility not just the over 70’s.
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My OH is 79 years old. He is not stupid nor irresponsible but he does have a problem with memory loss and confusion especially when he is under stress or out of his comfort zone. Let's face it - we are all out of our comfort zone at the moment.
I have explained about 10 times to him what the virus is, how it could affect him/us and the effect it will probably have on the NHS. He now seems to grasp that.
Up until today he couldn't grasp 'Social Distancing'. If he was in the garden and our neighbour was in their garden he would still want to chat over the garden wall. I've tried to explain that he shouldn't really do this (especially if they both lean on the wall). His reply is 'but, it's only George, he's OK).
Today he has grasped the concept and said that he shouldn't really go to the shop to get his newspaper and maybe he will try to get it delivered instead (hurrah!!)
A lot of over 70's could be in this position - not understanding what is expected of them and why. If they live alone or husband and wife are of a similar mind it must be very difficult to understand. Luckily I am much younger and have a lot of patience to keep explaining and insisting but it has happened very suddenly and we are all playing catch-up.
Rishile
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Yes we do, JenB.
I contacted my two oldest grandchildren and asked them to be careful about social distancing.
One has to go work tomorrow in a school and the other, a student, whose school is closed, has applied for a job at a supermarket - advertised because of the crisis. :-\
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Reading comments here and elsewhere gives the impression that some people believe that this virus is akin to the Black Death. It is not;most people who catch it will suffer a relatively minor infection.
Imposing social isolation on any group in society is likely to have a hugely negative impact on the physical and mental welfare of that group.
If the policies currently being pursued by the Government last for more than a few weeks the damage to the economy is likely to be profound and long lasting. This has massive implications for our ability as a nation to fund the lifestyles that we have all become accustomed to. In particular it would raise questions about our long term ability to pay for the National Health Service services that we have come to expect as a right. It would be deeply ironic if the action being taken against this virus resulted in diminished healthcare for all of us for many years to come.
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Reading comments here and elsewhere gives the impression that some people believe that this virus is akin to the Black Death. It is not;most people who catch it will suffer a relatively minor infection.
My son is a nurse in A&E. I'm extremely worried about him.
The problem is not in people over-reacting - it is in the "this is just like a bad cold" attitude.
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Reading comments here and elsewhere gives the impression that some people believe that this virus is akin to the Black Death. It is not;most people who catch it will suffer a relatively minor infection.
Imposing social isolation on any group in society is likely to have a hugely negative impact on the physical and mental welfare of that group.
If the policies currently being pursued by the Government last for more than a few weeks the damage to the economy is likely to be profound and long lasting. This has massive implications for our ability as a nation to fund the lifestyles that we have all become accustomed to. In particular it would raise questions about our long term ability to pay for the National Health Service services that we have come to expect as a right. It would be deeply ironic if the action being taken against this virus resulted in diminished healthcare for all of us for many years to come.
The issue is that the NHS (and other health services) do not have the equipment/resources to deal with a volume of those who do contract the virus.
Many people may indeed contract it and - we hope - have relatively minor effects. But if they pass it on so that other people are at risk of more major effects, then we WILL 'crash' the health service.
Not only for Covid-19 sufferers but for those who have accidents/need urgent surgery/are sufferers from life-limiting diseases needing constant treatment etc etc etc.
It's not about how many people have 'not so serious' effects, as how we all potentially pass it round creating an unsustainable requirement for treatment.
If at all possible, we should STAY AT HOME/WORK AT HOME and ideally not put other people at risk.
You don't know what effect your 'not too bad an illness' which you were inadvertently sharing whilst symptom free might have on other people and society as a whole.
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Well said, Igor.
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https://www.facebook.com/robin.ince.50/posts/10157794436096955?notif_id=1584871522394180¬if_t=feedback_reaction_generic
This Consultant is saying that the hospitals are full with people who caught the virus 2 weeks ago, and therefore he cannot see how the NHS will manage in 2 weeks time.
Please listen
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.
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That poster should be displayed everywhere. Where is it from?
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That poster should be displayed everywhere. Where is it from?
https://www.indy100.com/article/coronavirus-social-distancing-why-deaths-cases-9409871
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https://www.wbrc.com/2020/03/20/shelby-co-teenager-with-covid-this-is-no-joke/
Governor Hogan said and the first infant and the first teenager are among the latest to test positive for Covid-19 in Maryland. The Cumberland times reports the infant is 10 months old. None of the cases of children under 18 are currently hospitalized. Two-thirds of our cases are between the ages of 18 and 64.
It seems that no age is a barrier to Covid 19.
Malky
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Current Scottish Government advice is for people to spend time in the outdoors/nature as long as they don't have symptoms & providing they keep 2 metres apart, plus hand-washing etc & advice against touching hand-rails & railings.
Staying indoors all the time is not good for anybody & visiting uncrowded open areas for fresh-air & sunshine is essential for both physical & mental health. ;D
Bella's Mike Small's view here,
https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2020/03/22/viral-time/
Skoosh.
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https://www.wbrc.com/2020/03/20/shelby-co-teenager-with-covid-this-is-no-joke/
Governor Hogan said and the first infant and the first teenager are among the latest to test positive for Covid-19 in Maryland. The Cumberland times reports the infant is 10 months old. None of the cases of children under 18 are currently hospitalized. Two-thirds of our cases are between the ages of 18 and 64.
It seems that no age is a barrier to Covid 19.
I thought it was understood that Covid19 would infect anyone, irrespective of age.
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https://www.facebook.com/robin.ince.50/posts/10157794436096955?notif_id=1584871522394180¬if_t=feedback_reaction_generic
This Consultant is saying that the hospitals are full with people who caught the virus 2 weeks ago, and therefore he cannot see how the NHS will manage in 2 weeks time.
Please listen
The catch-up delay is the really scary thing, and what a lot of the general public seem to not quite grasp.
Btw, this is worth posting I think:
(https://www.wykop.pl/cdn/c3201142/comment_1584830371Uvn0HnH2ZeB5RaitR1gj50,w400.jpg)
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Skoosh, I think that Scotland's chief medical officer is proving to be a beacon of common sense. For the benefit of their wider health people need to act on this advice and ensure that they get fresh air and in particular adequate exercise.
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To put it bluntly, as I understand it, if those people who are in the categories that should not go out i.e. the over70's etc who are most vulnerable, choose to ignore advice and go out for whatever reason and catch the virus are themselves responsible for doing so.
If you have heeded the warnings and taken all precautions and still catch the virus, well you are not responsible.
In those two sets of circumstances who is most deserving of whatever NHS resources that are available, those who tried but couldn't avoid getting it or those who ignored the advice and got infected.
However, who would want the NHS input - all of them!
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To put it bluntly, as I understand it, if those people who are in the categories that should not go out i.e. the over70's etc who are most vulnerable, choose to ignore advice and go out for whatever reason and catch the virus are themselves responsible for doing so.
If you have heeded the warnings and taken all precautions and still catch the virus, well you are not responsible.
In those two sets of circumstances who is most deserving of whatever NHS resources that are available, those who tried but couldn't avoid getting it or those who ignored the advice and got infected.
However, who would want the NHS input - all of them!
How do you prove which is which :-\
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To put it bluntly, as I understand it, if those people who are in the categories that should not go out i.e. the over70's etc who are most vulnerable, choose to ignore advice and go out for whatever reason and catch the virus are themselves responsible for doing so.
Maybe just let them starve then :-\
Added
I don’t think critical posts are very helpful.
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Scottish Government statement against people piling into their caravans & campervans & heading north to escape restrictions. They are not wanted, folk are locked-down & they will place additional pressure on limited food supplies & medical provision geared to the local people. No tourist season this year.
Skoosh.
We are caravanners and have accepted with great disappointment that we won't be going anywhere in our caravan anytime soon. The campsites are open with the sanitary blocks closed, why they have not closed them altogether is beyond me. Why would we want to risk spreading the virus to other parts of the country ???
We will have a glass of wine in our caravan at home staring out onto our garden and be thankful, that, for the moment ,we are well.
Carol
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That poster should be displayed everywhere. Where is it from?
The daily Mirror...I displayed this on the previous thread and was shocked at how little attention it had received and I said so too.
Carol
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My daughters neighbour has just heard that her cancer operation next week has been cancelled, no intensive care beds available ! The stress and fear is enough to kill her! She’s already been two weeks in isolation with friends and neighbours leaving food etc. on her doorstep.
We’re being told to isolate and yet I read that flights are still arriving here from Italy, China and Iran. Passengers being told to isolate themselves for two weeks on arrival...good luck with that >:(
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51994504
Don’t tell me they were all over 70 :-X
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Just heard from a friend in the Highlands.
All the holiday homers are arriving and 15 camper vans have appeared in the parking area overnight.
This is a very remote area. It used to take us nearly 2 hours, mainly on single track, to get to Raigmore hospital in Inverness. This is the nearest A&E and caters for most of the Highlands.
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To put it bluntly, as I understand it, if those people who are in the categories that should not go out i.e. the over70's etc who are most vulnerable, choose to ignore advice and go out for whatever reason and catch the virus are themselves responsible for doing so.
If you have heeded the warnings and taken all precautions and still catch the virus, well you are not responsible.
In those two sets of circumstances who is most deserving of whatever NHS resources that are available, those who tried but couldn't avoid getting it or those who ignored the advice and got infected.
However, who would want the NHS input - all of them!
I found it helpful to consider
not whether I was at risk of catching the virus and needing the NHS but of thinking, if I did, who else would I be passing it on to, inadvertently.
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Just heard from a friend in the Highlands.
All the holiday homers are arriving and 15 camper vans have appeared in the parking area overnight.
This is a very remote area. It used to take us nearly 2 hours, mainly on single track, to get to Raigmore hospital in Inverness. This is the nearest A&E and caters for most of the Highlands.
Same is happening here in the Lakes.
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And on the Norfolk coast and countryside :(
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Skoosh, I think that Scotland's chief medical officer is proving to be a beacon of common sense. For the benefit of their wider health people need to act on this advice and ensure that they get fresh air and in particular adequate exercise.
I agree wholeheartedly. I heard her last Sunday on Radio 4 "Broadcasting House" and made a point of listening to her again this morning. She'll be on the same programme next Sunday. I intend to follow her advice. I was posting on Coronavirus thread 5 while I was listening and included some of what she said in my post.
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To put it bluntly, as I understand it, if those people who are in the categories that should not go out i.e. the over70's etc who are most vulnerable, choose to ignore advice and go out for whatever reason and catch the virus are themselves responsible for doing so.
Maybe just let them starve then :-\
Added
I don’t think critical posts are very helpful.
What is critical about the above observation? Just stating the obvious that others are skirting around. Do those choosing to ignore the self isolation request think it is ok - they will want the help if they get ill.
Being in a vulnerable category I am self isolating as requested and would expect to get treatment before those who have popped to the newsagent etc.
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Just a query - looking ahead.
If we are still under isolation/distancing requirements in the autumn, which looks highly likely, how are we going to get our flu jabs?
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Community Nurse home visit?
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Community Nurse home visit?
You should see the queues outside our large practice plus those who make special appoinments. There aren't enough Community nurses to go around in large cities.
Add - Australia will be there before us
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Perhaps it will be delivered with an explanatory leaflet together with food which hopefully might be organised by then for those over 70 who are advised to stay in and have no family or internet.
Just a query from me too Gadget, what happens to the fit, possibly working, 69 yr old who has a birthday in the next few weeks?
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The motor bike brigade are out in force today. Presumably they are going on their favourite ride up through Alston and up to Hartside.
No doubt when one of them comes a cropper they will expect the emergency crews to come rushing to their rescue.
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It is a strange feeling knowing there is something out there that might attack us at any time, worse than a normal flu, may people have spoken about war time, you knew almost what was going on, at the moment we don't
I am over 70, quite sprightly as my butcher told me recently and I don't really want to stay in, I went to church this morning because I knew the church would be open, only 3 of us there, the rest were clergy and the such like, we sat almost like a triangle so far apart, the priests were very good to explain that it wasn't a normal communion service but nevertheless was pleasant and it was mothering Sunday, my friend and I decided on the way home that it will be the last service we will attend till it all dies down,
We just have to be sensible in my opinion but we still have to be out buying food from time to time, a very worrying time right now
Louisa Maud
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Its not just the over 70's ..................
Crowds in Bournemouth, Brighton, Skegness and many, many more places today...................
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8138439/Public-urged-away-UK-holiday-destinations-limit-Covid-19-spread.html
but flights still landing from Italy, China, Iran..................
Flights from Rome, Beijing and Shanghai have landed in London every day .....................
Sandra
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In response to the title of this thread - because some of us still have to!
I live alone and although have offers from those willing to get things for me (if they can, of course) I need to be able to pay them. So, I plan in advance a visit to a cash point at the quietest time of day, drive there and return home swiftly. Yesterday, I needed to speak to a pharmacist to get some kind of treatment. (Have an eye infection). It wasn't something that someone could do for me - the pharmacist needed to see me and advise accordingly. My local pharmacy not open on weekends so again I had to plan in advance. Late afternoon I drove to a pharmacy in the area I grew up in which is away from other shops. Parked directly outside, only one person in front of me, I stayed 6ft behind until I could speak to the pharmacist who, after seeing me recommended a particular treatment. This I duly bought, got in my car and drove straight home. Hands washed before and after and wore gloves whilst out.
What's happening to us all is horrific, there's no doubting this and I'm scared stiff but sometimes things aren't simply 'black or white' and you do what you have to. For the first time I've been able to organise groceries to be delivered - 27th March and 4th April. Can't book further ahead than that right now and don't know how much of what I ordered I'll actually get - we all need food to survive and the morons bulk-buying should not be allowed to do so. Freezers? I live in a small flat and my only 'freezer' is a tiny compartment in the top of my fridge so can't store stuff for more than a week and why I have to shop on a weekly basis.
So, I am doing all I can to live sensibly and only going out when I have no choice and planning ahead before I leave home as to where I'll go to be there and back as swiftly as possible. Those with no car don't have that option and I feel for them.
Annette
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Perhaps it will be delivered with an explanatory leaflet together with food which hopefully might be organised by then for those over 70 who are advised to stay in and have no family or internet.
Just a query from me too Gadget, what happens to the fit, possibly working, 69 yr old who has a birthday in the next few weeks?
The rules seem to be changing, heywood. I think Boris is announcing something at the moment.
Add - Sky saying more restriction on movement are likely to be announced in the next few minutes
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As We're just into that age group, We'd quite happily stay in and have groceries delivered .... IF we could register with Sainsburys, or Morrisons!
We may soon be anxiously seeking catfood - the shelves were totally bare yesterday, when we did a shop locally, quite why I can't see.
We have no younger friends nearby, and almost no relatives anywhere, we'd happily do as we have done today, and really get stuck into the back garden ( already it's looking better than usual) as we have quite a large one to keep us busy - but we have absolutely no option bar going out to shop for food, unless a Fairy waves a magic wand and provides us with a grocery delivery provider and a slot within a week ( by then we may be struggling a bit).
There is NO ALTERNATIVE, sadly, that we can think of. If there was - we'd do it.
TY
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What is critical about the above observation? Just stating the obvious that others are skirting around. Do those choosing to ignore the self isolation request think it is ok - they will want the help if they get ill.
What about those younger people who chose to ignore the social distancing - they will want the help if they yet ill! I don't suppose it was over 70s who headed for the beaches yesterday and today.
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Threlfall Yorky, well that's different and a necessity isn't it. But these people who want to pop and get their newspaper - how can you socially distance when you have to go to counter to pay (with filthy money that might be carrying the virus) and bring home a newspaper. There is plenty of news on the internet and if you haven't got that there is the television. There's a big difference.
Pheno
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What is critical about the above observation? Just stating the obvious that others are skirting around. Do those choosing to ignore the self isolation request think it is ok - they will want the help if they get ill.
What about those younger people who chose to ignore the social distancing - they will want the help if they yet ill! I don't suppose it was over 70s who headed for the beaches yesterday and today.
They are equally as irresponsible but as yet I don't think they are in a category advised to stay indoors for 12 weeks, just socially distance.
Pheno
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Thanks Gadget. I am getting to it a bit late but just putting it on now.
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They are equally as irresponsible but as yet I don't think they are in a category advised to stay indoors for 12 weeks, just socially distance.
Yes but it is those people who are spreading the virus, if they are not socially distancing. If you look at the Government's website I don't think it mentions that over 70s must stay indoors for 12 weeks.Today's announcement has identified 1.5. million who will be getting letters, but they are vulnerable people through illnesses and not necessarily those over 70.
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Those who are younger though are having to work.
They are keeping schools open, stacking shelves, serving in the supermarkets, delivering food, delivering post, emptying bins and many more I would think.
Omitted of course the NHS workers - apologies.
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Has anyone else seen the fb idea about a green or red card in the window (apologies if this has been covered elsewhere, tried searching and didn't find anything obvious)?
https://www.facebook.com/DailyMail/posts/5463786257014411
There are differing views and the negative one is that it's an easy way to identify targets to take advantage of, but in need of help doesn't necessarily mean old and doddery. It could mean highly infectious!
I'm unexpectedly in lockdown for 3 months (I planned and stocked up for a week max, never imagined my GP would tell me I'm in a vulnerable group). Thankfully I have contact details for three neighbours and milk is the only thing I'm likely to run out of before I can get a supermarket delivery slot, so as long as they don't all get ill at the same time I should be OK. But I feel for people who don't have a support network around them, don't have access to the internet, and may be forced to choose between placing themselves in harm's way or else going hungry.
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Please read this message from someone on the frontline of this fight against covid-19, posted 10 hours ago. Please keep to the government guidelines to help the NHS do their job.
I’m a consultant anaesthetist working in Frimley Park Hospital and this week all anaesthetists are being re-roled as intensive care doctors. We will be tasked with putting the sickest patients under anaesthetic and onto ventilators/life support machines. Each patient will require 10 days+ on a ventilator then may need a temporary tracheostomy to get them off the ventilator.
The intensive care unit is already full of COVID-19 patients on ventilators (12) with more requiring ventilation every day. My hospital usually has 4-10 patients on ventilators and is planning and EXPECTING 80 patients to require ventilation.
It seems the public health message is not getting through. Let me be clear. A lot of people are going to die. They will mainly be 70 years plus but be in no doubt, 30-40 year olds will die too.
Pubs have been busy, offices open, social events happening, kids parties etc. It all needs to stop. Infected people shed virus and it must be everywhere by now. It is your social responsibility to engage in social distancing. Actions NOW can prevent further disease transmission, ICU admissions and deaths in 10-20 days.
Two of my anaesthetic/ICU colleagues in other hospitals are off work due to being infected (doing ok). As health care workers, we are now EXPECTING to catch it despite PPE. This virus has been transmitted around the globe unchecked and will not stop until it has no where to go - social distancing/isolation Or patient death.
Here ends my public health message.
On a more personal level, my son turned three years old last week and is six weeks into a three year chemotherapy program for lymphoma. This virus is a big threat to his life and as I am going to be exposed this week doing my job, I can no longer live at home.
I have had to make the difficult choice: to do my job and save lives of people I don’t know, or to be with my son whilst he battles cancer. Alfie hopefully will survive his cancer and chemo, but many people will die from flu. My heart is broken :'( making this decision, but I choose to save the lives of strangers and leave him in the care of my beautiful wife and family.
Later this week I’ll be moving into a motor home and will not be able to take any further part in his care for the next 6 months.
Bottom line. SOCIALLY ISOLATE or people die in two weeks.
Also noticed in the press an ears, nose and throat consultant in the Midlands, aged 52,died yesterday doing his duty.
Take care everybody, please don’t take unnecessary risks.
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I have to add to the previous message.
My husband had his operation to remove liver tumours cancelled this week. His specialist told him to stay at home... (no need he hasn’t gone far since the beginning of December). We now have an anxious 4-5 months wait hoping he remains stable when the current situation is reviewed. In the meantime his specialist is also going to work in ICU at Basingstoke hospital.
The least we can do to repay the NHS staff who performed lifesaving surgery in December, the ICU staff the ward nurses who looked after him, the specialist nurses who now loom after him, radiologists and endocrinologists, gps who have already sent through 3 months of medication... is to stay home. I am also social distancing, even at home.
My husband isn’t 70 yet and technically will not be in the 1.5m vulnerable people even though his life is at a greater risk now.
We all need to think of others, our neighbours etc., at this time.
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jc26red
I wish you and your husband all the best
Louisa Maud
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May I recommend to everyone the Podcast of
THE SCIENCE HOUR from the BBC World Service, latest edition released 21/3/20202
You can get this from your usual podcast supplier, and I expect it is also available on BBC SOUNDS
https://podcruncher.co/play/4rlJ
This episode - 2 parts, Science for half an hour, and then Crowd Science, an investigation following a listener question - is particularly helpful.
The first part is about Covid-19 and features an interview with an Italian doctor regarding their investigations which demonstrated that MANY people have Covid-19 but are SYMPTOM FREE but can pass on the virus to other people.
This emphasises our need to stay at home and keep at least 6 feet away from everyone as well as hand washing etc. There are obviously other concerns from this information, too, but I won't go into this.
And the second part from Crowd Science is about DNA testing and family history research, which I think we will all find very interesting too - although probably many of us know a bit about it
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More and more experts are stressing it is essential that people including over 70 year olds get out and exercise during this pandemic otherwise they open themselves to health problems.
Having said that any exercise has to be done whist keeping safe by observing social distancing.
Here are just to links that explain why.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01p7x/
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01p7y/
Cheers
Guy
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The fact that the person who started this thread frightens me.
IT IS NOT JUST THE OVER 70’s IT APPLIES TO EVERYONE.
Watch
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KwR27iYw-qM
Drs and Nurses are dying because you the general public are NOT following the advice.
STAY AT HOME
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Some people need to have it explained clearly. I thought this did the trick.
RIshile
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The over 70's are being given slots whereby we can shop but it is a good idea that all the over 70's who choose to go shopping go together
Most of us will need to go out occasionally, I certainly haven't got 4 months of food in, fresh fruit and veg is one I would go out for
Just stay safe
Louisa Maud
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My wife is under doctors orders to walk for 20-30 minutes every day, on level ground.
The reason for this is due to her COPD. Without that walk, as instructed, she would be in much worse condition than the possibility of the latest virus.
We do go first thing in the morning, to the local shopping centre, before many other people are around. Most of those are also those using the level walking for health reasons.
We are in Australia, where we have not, as yet, been given such draconian instructions, only suggestions.
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Some people need to have it explained clearly. I thought this did the trick.
RIshile
Its a bit complicated for many to understand.
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Hi A Chester
I too am in Australia, and was part of a Heart Foundation shopping centre walking group. The "comforts" and safety of the shopping centre are certainly better than walking on very uneven pavements etc. Sad (but understandable) to find out that the Heart Foundation has taken the step of discontinuing the group because of the virus. Yes, there are few people around at 7.30 a.m. - but a bit of "infection" risk is still there - so they are being quick and very fussy with the "social Distancing" and "Stay at home, over 70's" recommendations. Hard one eh? don't suppose it is relevant to walk around garden paths (boring I know) … purchase of a treadmill would have been good if we could have anticipated the virus eh? Personally taking the approach of walking around very familiar streets, very early in a.m. - but needing to be very careful about "tripping hazards". Good luck!