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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: castlebob on Tuesday 24 March 20 09:29 GMT (UK)
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I'm trying to find out if any Scottish coal miners ever moved to Cornwall to work in the tin mines. I'm particularly interested in those who may have done so during the 18th and 19th centuries.
Cheers,
Bob
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People used to move around a lot following work, so I am sure it is very possible Bob.
Are you looking for anyone in particular?
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Nobody in particular on this occasion, Ruskie. It's a long story, but any evidence of such movement, plus that of Scottish fishermen who perhaps relocated to Cornwall, would be extremely useful for research purposes.
Cheers,
Bob
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if you search on the census for men living in Cornwall in mining areas with Scotland as their place of birth, there are a few who show up.
So in 1851 there is a John Marks born Scotland aged 49 in Camborne who is a sexton HO107/1916 folio 20 pg 33. When he married in 1841 as a widower, he and his father were both miners.
Also in 1851 in Camborne there's a mine agent George Swan born Scotland HO107/1916 folio 45 pg 6
And in Kenwyn in 1851 there's a John Yellow (corrected to Yelland) aged 27 copper miner born Scotland.
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mmm, not so sure about John Marks now. Place of birth in 1861 given as Newcastle, Scotland!
::)
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Some people believe there was movement in the opposite direction - Cornish miners moving up to Fife. I once corresponded with somebody who believed that the Mathers families of the St. Monans area were descended from a Cornish miner called Mathers or Matters (older form of the name). Not so sure about that myself.
Harry
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Interesting. The Newcastle may be Newcastleton, a tiny village near Canonbie in Scotland.
Cheers,
Bob
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If you go to the Cornwall OPC site and type in 'Mac' or 'Mc' for person search, or for a specific category (bp, marriage, etc.) you'll see quite a few Scottish surnames, some with christian names Alexander and Duncan. For example, Margaret Maccollister bp 1736 Madron to father Robert; Elizabeth McDonald 1725 Falmouth to father Hugh.
Some of the later Mac/Mc marriages have the groom as a soldier, but you may find other occupations there. It may be a question of going through them, unless the paying sites produce any returns by using 'miner' in a keyword in the search.
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Someone may come forward with a ref to an article or thesis on the subject. Many years ago I obtained some info re Jacobite prisoners who dug the Fenland drainage system in East Anglia. From memory, some stayed on following their release. It's amazing how often someone has written up a subject, however obscure!
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Interesting. The Newcastle may be Newcastleton, a tiny village near Canonbie in Scotland.
That thought crossed my mind too, but it's not exactly a hotbed of mining activity.
In 1841 John Marks says he was born in Cornwall
in 1851 he says Scotland
in 1861 he says Scotland, Newcastle
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Someone may come forward with a ref to an article or thesis on the subject. Many years ago I obtained some info re Jacobite prisoners who dug the Fenland drainage system in East Anglia. From memory, some stayed on following their release. It's amazing how often someone has written up a subject, however obscure!
Talking of which, in 1988 I wrote an article for the journal of the Northumberland and Durham Family History Society entitled "Newcastle Keelmen in the Eighteenth Century: the Scottish connection". The keelmen loaded coal at the colliery and took it downriver to the ships that were waiting to transport it to its final destination. The Tyne & Wear archives have lists of the keelmen, their names and parishes of origin, and in the mid-18th century 55% of them were Scots.
Harry
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Quote from Forfarian: "That thought crossed my mind too, but Newcastleton is not exactly a hotbed of mining activity."
Not a hot-bed, Forfarian, but the Duke of Buccleuch opened mines in the Canonbie area in the 1770s. Archerbeck, Byreburnfoot and Canonbie Colliery itself were some.
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Quote from Forfarian: "That thought crossed my mind too, but Newcastleton is not exactly a hotbed of mining activity."
Not a hot-bed, Forfarian, but the Duke of Buccleuch opened mines in the Canonbie area in the 1770s. Archerbeck, Byreburnfoot and Canonbie Colliery itself were some.
All on this map https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=55.09042&lon=-2.93328&layers=5&b=1 which, geologically, is on the Pennine Upper Coal Measures
Newcastleton is on older, non-coal-bearing sandstones and volcanic rocks. It would be quite possible to walk from Newcastleton to Canonbie, which is only 10 miles, but you wouldn't want to do that twice a day at all times of year, so if John Marks was born in Newcastleton he might have moved to the Canonbie area to work there, and from there to Cornwall.
Would a coal miner be able to transfer his skills easily from mining coal to mining tin and other metals?
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As you probably know, Buccleuch cleared old Castleton & built Newcastleton for his workers. Folk who would normally have had children born & raised in Canonbie may well have been 'persuaded' to relocate.
I imagine mining skills would be fairly easy to transfer from one to the other, but I'm no expert. My wife watched 'Poldark' so might know more than me!!!
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Bob, re the 18th C, I saw on another RootsChat thread:
.....NB. Until late 18thC Scottish miners were bonded labour. Only after the law on bonded labour was abolished was there free movement of labour for Scottish miners....
Monica
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Many thanks for that link. Very interesting.
Cheers,
Bob
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Hello,
I'm new to this group, but just had to sign up to chat, as The John Marks you are discussing was my 3rd great-grandfather. My mum was Cornish and comes from many generations of miners in Camborne and surrounding areas.
Regarding John Marks. The census info may seem inconsistent, but it is not really.
1841 was the first ever UK census and asked only "Born in same county?" with a Yes/No answer and the census taker seems to have merrily put 'Y' next to every entry.
In 1851 it asks "Where born?" and for John Marks it says Scotland.
In 1861 more detail is given, this time "Scotland, Newcastle".
We all thought this very odd, but can clear it up.
No one who was born in a small village in Cornwall will say they are from Scotland! He must be from Scotland!
I have since discovered that there is a place called Newcastle in Glenrothes, Fife and that it was a coal mining community.
I don't have much more to tell, but I think we can say that YES, Scottish miners did go to work in Cornwall.
Regards,
Katie.
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There are two places called Newcastle in Fife according to www.scotlandsplaces - one in the parish of Dunfermline and one in the parish of Kinglassie.
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This thread is very timely as I've been following a coal miner John Currie and his wife Mary Watson. They married in Dysart in 1786, had couple of children baptised there, then there's quite a gap until some children were baptised in Scoonie, Tranent, Kettle and the last at Cockpen in Midlothian in 1809.
I'm wondering whether it was usual for a coal miner to move around so much, and if not, why did this family move around?
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Wherever their is coal (or better) there will always a miner wanting to move there.