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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: brynjon on Saturday 28 March 20 21:48 GMT (UK)
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Hello again - whilst searching for the many travels of my great aunts from Sunderland UK to New York in the early part of the 20th century I came across a visit to a cousin John Grey in 1921 - document attached.
I am unaware of the link to the family though anyone that could have helped are already beyond the sun.
I cannot locate any John Grey on the Ellis Island list though I did find a John Grey married to an English lady Frances and a son John Jnr. born in the UK approximately 1887 which ties in very well with the age of my Aunt Margaret b 1885 in Sunderland.
I attach part of a 1920 census with the John and Frances, however, the address differs from the 1921 Sailing manifest also attached.
I would be extremely grateful if anyone can she some light onto my unknown relation John Grey.
My two aunts Margaret Wood b1885 and her sister Sarah Jane Wood b1883 travelled extensively to the USA in their role as nurses to the Pulitzer, Strauss and ET Gerry amongst others. My gt uncle John Wood also migrated to New York but died in January 1927 and his body returned to Sunderland by ship.
I would love to learn of relatives in the USA and put to rest anecdotal tales that no one can as yet verify. Best regards - Bryn Jones (Sunderland UK)
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Their first son John was born in England. Can you find his birth?
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1910
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M5MG-2M7
edit to add
1900
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MSND-PVV
birthplaces seem to change a bit. in 1910, the son John was said to be born in NY.
in 1900, both the father John and the son John are said to be born in England.
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Three of the children's births. All say mother's maiden name was Emma Fanny Hurl. Father's birthplace varies. Which is strange, since you'd think he or the mother was providing the information on a birth record. So maybe Fannie wasn't sure where John was born.
Charles James Gray, Brooklyn
18 Jun 1888
father John Stamford Gray, born in Brooklyn
mother Emma Fanny Hurl Gray, born in England
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WQ5-3BG
Flossie Veronica, 10 Apr 1890, Manhattan
father born in US
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WM5-VJF
Alice 23 Jan 1901, Brooklyn
father born in England
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WD7-BSS
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I was working on the assumption that your great aunts were actually cousins of John's wife Fanny, since John's own birth was often recorded as in the US, but Fanny's was always in England.
So I looked for Emma Fanny Hurl and found this, which puts her at the other end of the island from Sunderland. So I'd guess she is not your aunts' cousin.
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1871 Census Knaphill, Woking, Surrey, England
Emma F Hurl, age 10, born Beanlien Rails Boldes Hampshire England
in household of Isaac Hurl 37, Emily Hurl 33
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1861 Hampshire
as Emma Fanny Berges/Borges in household of Isaac and Emily Hurl
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births
3rd Qtr 1860, Lymington, Hampshire
Emma Fanny Hurl
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John and family were in Brooklyn in 1905 and 1925. Both times he said he was born in the US.
from Social Security applications:
Their daughter Florence married a man named Herrick.
Their daughter Alice Beatrice married a man named Corbett.
In case the surnames ring a bell from family stories.
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John had a copyright on something he published. It's too bad it doesn't say where he was born and his parents' names. :)
Catalog of Copyright Entries, Part 1, Volume 14, Issues 1-3, 1917
found at Google books by starting at Google and looking for "john stanford grey, new york"
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1940 Census 260 Linden Blvd, Brooklyn (I think), Kings County at any rate
John Grey, 53, born in New York
Fanny Grey, mother, 81, widowed, born in England
lived in same house in 1935
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John S Grey
Birth unknown
Death 13 Feb 1929
Burial Holy Cross Cemetery
Brooklyn, Kings County (Brooklyn), New York, USA
Plot Diamond Square, System: CEM, Section: DIAM, Row: C, Plot: 130
note at findagrave: Gravesite Details Death date is interment date.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/172941349
Fanny Grey
Birth unknown
Death 11 Sep 1953
Burial Holy Cross Cemetery
Brooklyn, Kings County (Brooklyn), New York, USA
Plot Diamond Square, System: CEM, Section: DIAM, Row: C, Plot: 130
note at findagrave: Gravesite Details Death date is interment date.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/172941343/fanny-grey
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Holy Cross is a Catholic Cemetery, if that helps rule them out or keeps them in as relatives.
So you have an approx. death date for both, but I don't know how available the NY Death records are. Rules vary from state to state. Their death records should have a space for parents' names. Whether they will be filled in correctly is anyone's guess.
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John S Grey is elusive before 1900. The best bet for tying them to Sunderland might be the birth record for their son John G who sometimes says he was born in England, sometimes in the US.
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Thanks for the effort so far - only bit of evidence is the address of John Grey on Margaret's arrival.
By posting the 1920 census I may have thrown in a red herring.
The only address I can confirm is the 1921 address of 136 East 60th Street, NY which is where the cousin was residing at time of arrival.
As mentioned previously Margaret Wood b May 9 1885 in Sunderland and her sister
Sarah Jane b Apr 17 1883 were regular visitors to New York and America/Canada in their role as nurses.
Their father John was a Brass Finisher in the ship building industry in Sunderland UK so their worldly travel fascinates me in as much as two girls from a north east coast town whose main industries were ship building and coal mining. For these two ladies to end up regularly travelling to New York on their own in the early 1900's is just amazing, though if there was family already there which it seems the Grey's were then perhaps it makes it less amazing.
Any information is gratefully accepted - Best regards - Bryn
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Holy Cross is a Catholic Cemetery, if that helps rule them out or keeps them in as relatives.
oldohio - the Wood family were indeed Catholics.
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Their first son John was born in England. Can you find his birth?
oldohio - looked for a birth in the local area but nothing that gives a surname within the family tree I am aware of - I searched marriages of John Grey with Frances and Fanny
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Elusive in the UK. the son John Grey is also on find a grave died December 1953 - 26 December 1953 interment date - just a few months after his mother.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/172941350
Sandra
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Death Notice John Grey - The Brooklyn Daily Eagle
Brooklyn, New York 12 Feb 1929, Tue Page 18
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/47580310/john-s-grey-12-february-1929/
The Brooklyn Daily Eagle - 25 September 1918
GREY TURNS OVER FUNDS
In answer to the summons obtained for him by Mrs. Margaret Jasper of
162 Gates ave . In connection with the row over the receipts of a block party,
held last Thursday evening at Gates ave. and Irving pi., John S. Grey
of 39 Irving Place has turned the sum of $77.50 over to American Red Cross Society
by order of the district attorney . The neighbour hood disputes will have an airing in
the second district municipal court on 20 September.
Sandra
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Death Notice Fanny Grey -The Brooklyn Daily Eagle
Brooklyn, New York 10 Sep 1953, Thu Page 13
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/47580391/fanny-grey-10-september-1953/
Sandra
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Death Notice Marie Grey Pegullian - daughter of Mr and Mrs John S Grey.
The Standard Union Brooklyn, New York
20 Jan 1920, Tue Page 5
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/47587428/obituary-for-marie-g-peguillan/
Sandra
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Just a small snippet.
The Brooklyn Standard Union - 7 December 1922
Linen Shower for Miss Grey
Mrs Joseph Frans, of 1004 Herkimer street had linen shower at her home on Sunday night forfriend Miss Bertha Grey of 59 Irving Place who is to be married the week before Christmas . The linen gifts were as beautiful as they were numerous and donated by the following friends who were present :
Mrs Franz and the Misses Agnes and Marguerite Franz, Mrs. Joseph Franz, Mrs, Kiely, Mrs. Kenney,
Mrs. William Betz, Miss Madeline Bets, Mrs. James Dixon, Mrs. Harry Vester, Miss Bertha Albrecht, Miss Grace Johnson, Miss Alice Rout, Miss Josephine Smith, Miss Marguerite
Duffy, the Misses Irene and Ellzabeth Kelly, Mrs. John S. Grey and Miss Alice Grey.
Sandra
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Many thanks again Sandra. Not being familiar - and only having visited NY one on a whistle stop 3 day hop on/hop off style trip several years ago and prior to my family tree research beginning - with New York - do you know if the address given on the trip by Margaret Wood 126 East 60th Street would be a realistic address one year from the 1920 census showing Spring Place. I note Spring Place appears to be the name of an up market club these days.
I think I need to plan a visit to New York once the isolation/travel issues caused by the virus allows.
Best regards - Bryn
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Not sure this will work but here is a map showing the two addresses.
https://tinyurl.com/s6bgpnh
Sandra
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Did you realise Margaret went to that address on the 24 March 1922 trip as well as the 25 Feb 1921 - think she may have lived there for a period of time.
Sandra
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Who were Margaret Wood's parents and what was their date of birth?
Do you happen to know the names of any siblings (of her father John) who would qualify to be the father of this John S. Grey (sometimes alternately spelled in records as Gray)?
Did Sarah Jane ever marry (if so, what was her surname) and is it possible she also visited in the US with the new surname?
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1891 census Bishop Wearmouth, Durham.
Class RG12 Piece 4132 Folio 49 Page 5
John Woods 47
Glennis M Woods 47
James O Woods 20 Eleanor M Woods 17
Thomas Woods 15 Alfred Woods 13
William H Woods 10
Sarah J Woods 7 Margaret Woods 5
Sandra
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1920 census Manhattan Assembly District 15, New York.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MJBG-VL9
1930 census East 52 Street Manhattan New York
Ralph Pulitzer 52 Margaret L Pulitzer 38 Margaret Pulitzer 1
Sarah J Wood 46 born England.Nurse. Imm 1914. AL
Norah E Burch 37
William J Womack 84
Betty Warnecke 63
Eleanora Mclaurin 40
Kathleen Kenney 20
Mary A Dawson 31
George N Stein 23
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X42Z-PVH
Sandra
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30 April 19221 passenger list for Sarah J Wood.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J6JC-XJS
Sandra
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I think the 1920 census with the Greys is at Irving Place, not Spring Place. They were in Brooklyn, and there is an Irving Place there. Also, Irving Place was mentioned in one of the articles above.
Here's a list from a Brooklyn newspaper of Roster of Democratic Women in Eleventh Assembly District Organization. https://www.newspapers.com/clip/47613683/roster-of-democratic-women
Also, an article about a kitchen shower given by Mrs. John S. Grey at 39 Irving Place. https://www.newspapers.com/clip/47613857/kitchen-shower
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Who were Margaret Wood's parents and what was their date of birth?
Do you happen to know the names of any siblings (of her father John) who would qualify to be the father of this John S. Grey (sometimes alternately spelled in records as Gray)?
Did Sarah Jane ever marry (if so, what was her surname) and is it possible she also visited in the US with the new surname?
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Neither Margaret or Sarah Jane Wood ever married and died as spinsters back in Sunderland.
Margaret b May 9 1885 d May 27 1975
Sarah Jane b April 17 1883 d Mar 1953
Parents:-
John Wood b Oct 14 1843 d Apr 12 1926
Mary Eleanor Renton b Jul 1843 d Dec 30 1920
None of their siblings married anyone by the name of Grey/Gray and I have details of the siblings families.
The only thing I can think is that the two sisters often used the home address of a cousin in the UK surname of Heward. The only Frances Heward I can link to the tree was married locally.
As it happens also in 1921 Sarah Jane's sister Margaret is named on a ship (Aquitania) manifest dated April 23 1921 - one of the cousin's children Jeannie White HEWARD aged 16 at the time is shown as visiting Margaret Wood at 136, East 60th Street (C Egan - I believe is the permanent resident at that address)
Jeannie White Heward returned to Hetton-le-Hole near Sunderland where she was married a number of times.
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I think the 1920 census with the Greys is at Irving Place, not Spring Place. They were in Brooklyn, and there is an Irving Place there. Also, Irving Place was mentioned in one of the articles above.
I am unsure whether the 1920 census relates to the John Grey listed on the 1921 journey even though I posted it. Looking at the distance between the area of Brooklyn and E 60th Street and not having the details of what John Grey's occupation was in 1921 - the occupation of the 1920 John Gray is a worker on the railroads and not sure whether that occupation may have lived in E60th
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There is no John Grey/Gray at 136 East 60th in the 1920 and 1922 New York City Directories.
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It doesn't look like there is a 136 East 60th in Brooklyn, at least not present day, according to Google maps.
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1930 census 450 East 52 Street Manhattan New York
Ralph Pulitzer 52 Margaret L Pulitzer 38 Margaret Pulitzer 1
That is some fancy residence looking at it on Google Maps.
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There is no John Grey/Gray at 136 East 60th in the 1920 and 1922 New York City Directories.
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It doesn't look like there is a 136 East 60th in Brooklyn, at least not present day, according to Google maps.
Hi oldohio - the address 136, East 60th was given on her ship manifest and staying at that address in 1921 with cousin John Grey - The ship Carmania sailed Feb 19 1921.
The address of 136, East 60th was an address where Margaret Wood was staying with a C Egan - I surmise her employer at the time.
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COMPLETE - Many thanks to the contributors, sadly going to write this enquiry off until I can locate a John Grey in the immigration records. Best regards and stay safe. Bryn
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Hi everyone - Though I have marked my enquiry as complete I thought I would let you know of an update.
Whilst researching deeper into my tree I located a marriage which I had not found before and the couple had moved to a different county.
Having dug that little bit deeper I found that John Grey's sister was also a nurse travelling to New York - Mary Wilkinson GRAY was found travelling to New York on the SS Santa Teresa via Peru arriving in NY 24th Feb 1921 to work as a nurse for a Mr HOLLOWAY - she was recorded as going to join her cousin Margaret WOOD at 136 East 60th Street.
The odd thing about the above ship's manifest was Margaret WOOD arrived in NY 28 February and on her entry she recorded joining her cousin John GRAY at the same address so a mystery as to why Mary would record joining with Margaret as she was not yet there and her brother seemingly was.
The address 136, East 60th Street is as someone suggested an agency address.
I now need to find John's landing - I now know John to have been born in Sunderland, Durham, England (My hometown) in 1869 and was last registered as a Draper's Assistant in the UK in the 1891 census.
Many thanks again and I hope everyone is staying safe. - Best regards - Bryn